I had an interesting conversation with wm's therapist recently. She commented that the mental health community has encouraged the logical/natural consequence mindset for our difficult children. She struggles & sees parents struggle simply because mental & emotional illnesses are not logical by nature. difficult children have little ability to reason (i.e. connect the dots). A consequence for not doing school work would be losing recess or free time....failing grades, etc. A natural consequence for not brushing teeth would be cavities & dental work needed. And saying all that, therapist feels that, while a consequence is necessary, because of our difficult children inability to connect the dots, parents shouldn't struggle to find a logical consequence. None of this is logical or reasonable. A consequence for wm acting out in school is generally to miss gym (fun time). This is a disservice to the boy as he needs to blow off steam - therapist recommended add'l homework or lunch room duties. kt's therapist (wm's therapist's partner) is seeing the "logic" in this reasoning. I argued that while difficult children generally are unreasonable or illogical there needs to be some way for them to learn to connect the dots. Both therapist's commented that the tweedles may never have that ability - work on the positives they exhibit. Build on their strengths. Are we fighting nature? Hmmmmmm?