Help! Not sure how to categorize this...

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by PsychMom, Jul 6, 2017.

  1. PsychMom

    PsychMom New Member

    This is my first post, bear with me as I'm typing on my phone.

    I am a step-mom to a 13 year old boy and a mom to a 5 month old boy. I've always said the 13 year old was mine and have treated him in such way.

    When I met my husband he did not have custody of let's call him Sal. Sal was 8 and lived with his mom, nana, sister and whoever mom was dating at any given time. Shortly after my husband and I began dating, Sal's Nana passed away. Bio-mom suffered from multiple addictions including Heroin. After nana passed away she had many family members move in and Sal, his mom and sister shared a room. I could go on for days about all the things wrong In the household, but long story made short my husband fought for custody and won in 2013.

    My husband isn't perfect and is learning. Sometimes when he's angry he overreacts the apologizes later. When Sal moved in we knew ther would be some adjustments. The first year or so everything seemed good. I used to brag how good he was and how blessed we were. Then I began noticing small behaviors that were easily brushed off by his past. He also has an issue with lying which like I said I just brushed off.

    Sal is now 13. He has an xbox but not computer or cell phone. When he's grounded basically he's not allowed it play Xbox, and if his room isn't clean while grounded he can't read or draw or play til his room is clean. He was still involved in family activities and school activities. As of April I have been in the process of adopting him as he's not seen his bio mom for over a year.

    Now for my venting/stressing.
    Last year Sal was in trouble at school for hitting a female second grader in the face on the bus. When the principal called I said not my kid, I called him downstairs and asked what happened on the bus his initial response was "I didn't know she had sensitive skin" so we found out he had hit her because she was asking him too many questions and he was playing a game on someone's phone.

    We seemed to handle the situation pretty well and put him in therapy in case he had some residual feelings or anger with the whole bio mom situation.

    Sal and I have always had open communication. I always try to let him talk without judgment. It seems like he is really charming and good at telling you what you want to hear. He has admitted to me that he looks for situations he can take advantage of and doesn't know why. Again I brushed it off as typical kid. I knew that his dad was more strict than I and allowed him to have a little more freedom with me for that reason. But he still seems to find situations he can gain from and take advantage of them.

    Ok so not sure how to say this out loud as a family we have only discussed it with the therapist. Sal had been getting over affectionate and I told his dad I was feeling uncomfortable. His dad said with the adoption in motion and all maybe he's looking for motherly affection and not to over think it.
    About a month ago now, we had just got back from a mini vacation and his dad was at work. I told him to bring his clothes upstairs and unpack. He went upstairs and kept calling our dog, I explained if the dog wants to stay downstairs it's ok. But he kept pushing (I figured because the dog was a distraction from cleaning). The dog has free roam of the house and he comes up and downstairs as he pleases. Meanwhile, his dad gets home from work. So we are in the living room and we can hear loud noises from his room like he was throwing something or dropping something, I said he was supposed to be putting his clothes away. His dad goes upstairs to see what he was doing... his dad described the situation as: he went upstairs, his door was open, Sal was bent over the bed with his underwear pulled down, he was aroused, and was allowing the dog to penetrate him. When my husband said "what are you doing" he put his head on the bed and said "something stupid"...

    I couldn't believe it, didn't want to believe it. When asking Sal questions he would lie and back track and lie. I'm sure some was embarrassment. But over the span of 4 hours we were able to determine it had been going on for 3 months, he had put objects in the dog and himself and had masturbated the dog with his hand. He admitted to me that he did it because it felt good. He also said that he lies so much he can't control it.

    That night we decided to no longer talk about it til we could see his therapist and Sal was like a normal kid making jokes and laughing the only guilt or remorse or whatever you want to call it was he wanted to make sure he was still allowed to go to summer camp the following week.

    My husband and I think he was more sorry he was caught then that he had done what he did.

    The following day we went to the therapist. Again, he was acting like everything was great and wonderful. The therapist thought he should go to camp but should have a physical exam first. Mind you my husband and I are in tears and visibly upset, Sal no care in the world. Whenever we attempted to eat we couldn't, Sal ate like a normal. When I explained one time to Sal that we were upset and that's why we couldn't eat, he exclaimed that he didn't understand why we couldn't just drink and forget about it to eat.his dad sometimes drinks and plays video games but usually waits for Sal to go to bed. With the therapists suggestion we asked him to keep his door open. The next day when it was closed I knocked and said "Sal, the door stays open" and angrily he said "why?" And I just looked at him and said "door stays open" and again more annoyed he says "I don't get why"

    At the physical exam he said "so if you check me does that mean this is all over and I can go to camp" ugh

    With a super worried and scared heart we sent him to camp. Part of it was selfish, my husband wasn't eating and with the baby I couldn't allow myself to feel comfortable with the baby.

    Here we are today. He he's been to another therapy session which we haven't been invited into. Therapist told us to keep doing what we are doing.

    My husband is acting like it never happened and so is Sal. Every morning he tries to come in my room and lay in my bed... with the baby. He insistingly knocks and if I say I'm feedinbgbthe baby he waits outside my door til he thinks I'm done then knocks again. Also my dad visited with my nephew and he kept trying to come in the bathroom when I was giving him a bath.

    I am sooo torn? I get this uneasy pit in my stomach whenever he knocks on my door or when I'm around him. I'm upset/angry because I don't think he sorry and I don't think he feels anything but entitlement. I try not to come out of my room with the baby til his dad comes home. I don't know how to be normal or act normal about all of this. I resent him and hate what he's done and it kills me because I know I'm supposed to be loving and understanding. I don't trust him with the baby and I think he's just telling us and the therapist what we want to hear in order to get this over with quicker.

    I don't know what to do, how to feel or act. I keep looking back to things that I feel like I should've noticed and thinking about things that I might not have noticed or I should've been worried about.
  2. pigless in VA

    pigless in VA Well-Known Member

    Wow, PsychMom. This is a whale of a issue.

    First question, did you find the dog another home or is he still living with you? That's some pretty icky stuff and I'm thinking it's better that the dog be removed.

    I also think you need to listen to your gut. Never leave the baby alone with Sal. Ever. I seriously do not like that Sal was trying to enter the bathroom where your young nephew was bathing. That isn't typical 13 year old behavior.

    Are you and your husband seeing a counselor for yourselves to see how best to proceed with Sal? Not Sal's therapist, a different one for YOU. This is some heavy stuff. Do you think Sal has been sexually abused?
  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Look up reactive attachment disorder...common and serious disorder that used to mainly be diagnosed in older adopted kids, but common and serious in kids who had very unstable first three years of life. The kids have such crazy, detached main caregivers that they dont develop normal love and attachment toward others and are empathy challenged. Lying, stealing, raging, sexualized behavior (usually from bring sexually abused) is common.These kids dont know how to love...they have learned that they have to worry about only themselves because others cant be trusted. Sounds like Moms home was not nurturing.

    We adopted an 11 year old like this. He repeatedly sexually abused my two yoinger kids who were too scared of him to tell on him. Two years into his life with us he killed two dogs and his entire charming facade came tumbling down and we found out everything he had done. It shocked us. He had seemed so adults!! Thekid was smart and a great actor.

    Do rehome your dog. Keep your baby with you AT ALL TIMES. This kid could try to do do something to the baby from sexually messing with him to...trying to choke him. A friend adopted an attachment disordered girl who was found choking her sister. She had to leave the home after that happened.

    The therapist probably doesnt know what reactive attachment disorder is. Many have only a vague understanding of it. Plus kids who have it are very charming to strangers and to us (until we catch them being crazy).

    Dont be us. If you really want to adopt him, know that you will always have to monitor your baby and any pets. He may pee or poop in odd places too ( we thought it was our dogs) and play with fire (we didnt know how he terrorized our younger kids with fire until after we had CPS remove him.) Then the younger kids started talking.

    Do I know for sure he has attachment disorder? No, but he sure sounds like it and Life with Mom set him up for poor attachment. Any of her boyfriends could have sexually abused him. He may or may not consciously remember, but sub consciously he must...which explains the reason for his sexual behavior toward the poor dog.

    Psychologists who deal with adopted kids best understand what a neglectful early life can do to a child. They are the "go to" people to see if there is an attachment disorder.

    If Mom did drugs or drank during pregnancy, he may have fetal alcohol damage, which is also serious. Or both.

    Dont mean to push panic buttons but want NOBODY to go through what our family did and your stepson has so many traits like our son did. Ours hid it so well too. We found out so much later....

    For the sake of the young kids we had, we have not seen that boy since he left. I could no longer care for him after what he had done to the young kids and he showed no remorse for the kids, just sorry he got caught.

    Hoping the best for your family. Do be careful.i wish i had been warned in advance about what could happen when adopting an older child who had lived such an unstable life.....take care and think very carefully about making it legal. If your gut us telling you something is VERY probably is.
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  4. BloodiedButUnbowed

    BloodiedButUnbowed Active Member

    I am so sorry you are going through this. Trust your gut, protect your infant, and find the dog a new home (either temporary or permanent) until the situation with Sal can be resolved. You don't want the dog to be hurt or worse by your stepson.

    From what you describe, Sal is not safe in your home and with more vulnerable individuals (human or pet). If it were me, I would call the therapist and make sure they understand the gravity of the situation. What he has done with the dog may be a crime, I would investigate whether or not he can receive additional therapy/services due to the fact that he has committed what might be a sexual offense.

    Almost as much as the situation with Sal itself, I am concerned that your husband seems to either be in denial or in so much shock that he cannot take action to protect his other child, you, and your pet. Acting like none of this ever happened is the worst possible thing that can be done, and will ensure that NOT ONLY will it happen again, it will probably get worse.

    Trust your gut!
  5. PsychMom

    PsychMom New Member

    Sal swears he's never been molested or sexually abused. The therapist seemed to believe him as he was allowing the dog to penetrate him and not the other way around.

    We still have the dog, against my wishes. My husband loves the dog and feels like we'd be punishing the dog for what Sal did.

    The dog remains downstairs and sal's door has been removed.

    We are not or have not seen a counselor. Last night I began crying and told my husband all the feelings I was having. He admitted that he has been acting like it hasn't happened to help him cope but recognized that Sal isn't reacting the way he should be either and it's concerning.

    My nephew is 6, my dad had him sleep with him while they were here, but I feel like I was constantly yelling at Sal to not "man handle" or pick up my nephew. Then the bath thing... ugh!

    I feel like a prisoner in my home, I literally sit in my room until 3 when my husband comes home I try not to go to the bathroom and when I do I bring the baby with me!
  6. PsychMom

    PsychMom New Member

    Wow... seriously sounds like Sal. Parents LOVE him.

    My dad has said though you can tell he plays stupid about a lot of things.

    I was thinking "sociopath" but I am going to look up the disorder you talked about.

    I'm beginning to think maybe we need to take him to a clinical psychiatrist and not a family therapist.

    The only other person we told was my husbands mother, even she's acting like it didn't happen. She visits frequent and will ask Sal "did you hold your brother today? Here do you want to?" And it makes me so mad.

    Also I don't think he forms normal relationships with children his age. Since October he's has a "girlfriend" at school and he says they don't even hold hands. When school ended he talked about being excited for Xbox so he could talk to her... then at camp he "fell in love" with a girl he is going to marry but he only knew her three days!
    I also noticed at parties and outings he gravitated towards either really young kids or the adults. I remember when we didn't have custody his mom said a neighbor accused him of touching his little girl. He was under 10 years old so I assumed had it really happened, it was probably curiosity. My husband says he doesn't remember that.

    On a day to day he cannot even remember to lock the front door or put the milk back in the fridge. But he remembers if there is something he wants. Like if there is a slushee in the fridge he'll ask me every day for two weeks or if I mentioned going somewhere he wants to go he'll ask everyday til I say we're not going or we go.

    I know it seems petty but easter time he got in trouble because he had eaten all his candy and all I got for easter was a bag of Reese's. One day he had Reese wrappers in his laundry so I told him to just ask and explained that was all I go and he ate all his candy. I also said there was a "community jar" of candy I didn't care if he took from. Well he then got sneaky and started stealing them while we were sleeping. I was mostly hurt he was being sneaky when all he had to do was ask. His dad made him replace the candy but he exclaimed that he only did it because it was the candy he liked.

    Is there any treatment or is it a lost cause? My husband has threatened to send him back his mothers which I'm not sure I want. My husband said his mother was a pathological liar and often manipulated siuations in her favor. My mother in law has said she would take him before he was sent back to his moms but she only lives like a block away and she lets him get away with bloody murder.
  7. PsychMom

    PsychMom New Member

    I am so glad I'm not over reacting.

    I wanted to get rid of the dog (we actually have two and I wanted to get rid of both the male and female). The therapist and my husband both didn't think it was necessary but the therapist suggested we have him fixed.... (if you could see me rolling my eyes).

    I began crying and talked to my husband last night. Not the best time as he went out with a few of his buddies and came back after drinking but I couldn't hold it in any longer.

    He said he knows he's been acting like it hasn't happened. When I suggested we both seek counseling his explained he doesn't want to relive it over and over and that he'd rather just bury it.

    Please don't judge my husband. His brother is married to a man and he is accepting of homosexual relationships but he was upset that not only was sal doing this with a dog but he was on the receiving end and that he liked it. He was also hurt/upset at the idea his son may be gay. I told him whether Sal was gay or not we'd still love him, but he said it isn't the lifestyle he wants for his sons.
  8. BloodiedButUnbowed

    BloodiedButUnbowed Active Member

    Sexual orientation and bestiality are two different things......your family's beliefs are your business, for nobody to judge.

    The concern is more that your stepson is physically abusing the male dog (after all the dog can't consent to this activity) and correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall you writing that you suspect Sal may have inappropriate thoughts/intentions toward your own infant and another very young relative if I remember correctly.

    This goes way beyond sex play and experimentation. Sal appears to be, and I'm sorry to be so blunt, a potential predator in the making. That to me is the real issue, that he has already taken advantage of a (helpless, unable to consent) animal and you have a fear he may be thinking the same about babies in your home.

    You may have to go it alone to protect your younger child and the pets....I hope you and your H can come up with a plan.
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  9. pigless in VA

    pigless in VA Well-Known Member

    You are not overreacting. I agree with everything culturanta said. This sort of reverse bestiality seems quite abnormal to me. The dog is not a consenting partner. Where is his concern for the needs of the dog? Please do look up reactive attachment disorder. Please go to counseling for yourself even if your husband refuses to go. Take the baby with you.

    I hate for you that you feel unsafe in your own home. Please treat Sal with extreme caution. His behavior is very concerning.
  10. PsychMom

    PsychMom New Member

    I don't think he's touched or hurt my 5 month old as even before this happened I would only leave him alone with the baby long enough to go pee or grab a glass of water. But I still don't trust him now.

    I explained to him right after it happened what consent meant, then he said "do you not trust me now with the baby" and I told him I didn't trust him with anyone that couldn't tell him no or tell me what's going on. He didn't seem to care.

    The therapist seemed to think maybe someone showed him this on their phone at school. But what scares me is he said no one showed him he just "figured" it would feel good.
  11. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Our adopted son swore he was never sexually abused. It is so traumatic that often the memory is suppressed. Kids dont just act out sexually. There is a reason. He could do kids too. Sociopathic behavior is pretty much the same behavior as attachment cant trust them but they know how to put on a great charming persona wben needed, like to mental health professionals. Before Child X was placed with us, and did his worst, all of his old foster parents and psychiatrists thought he was a great kid. Yet once in reside tial he admitted to ausing kids since age five. The county actually charged him at 13 of seual assault of a mi or (any child six or more years younger) and he was found guilty. So hd was in a lock up for young secual predators. In there he tried to molest snother kid, but he was caught and stopped. His final diagnosis, which he had ne er had before, was Severe Reactive Attachmet Disorder. Finally!!! He was let out at 18 and now has three children that I saw on Facebook. All girls. I shudder at what could be happening to them. He is so good at hiding his molestation.

    Your therapist sounds clueless.

    I personally dont think Sal is safe in the house. No matter how carefully you watch him, you cant all the time. Our son did damage to pets and kids in school and the neighborhood too. My youngest caught him strangling a neighibors cat, but he dropped the cat when he saw her and threatened to kill all if us if shd told. She was so little. She didt tell until after he was home.

    Sals behavior sounds so severe thaf, to save the baby, it may be necessary to leave with baby until husand gets the point. Sal needs out of home 24/7 care or he will hurt domebody someday. Your husband cant save Sal from the abuse/neglect of his early years. Son is already too damaged. With 24/7 reside tial care may e he can get the care and help he needs. It did not help the child we adopted, but that doesnt mean Sal wont benefit.

    The entire family could be blown apart if Sal remains at home.

    If husband loves dog like he says, he should find him another loving home. Dogs adjust to new caring owners. Dog is going to start shaking when Sal comes around. Trust me, the dog NEEDS to be away from Sal. So do you and your son. Maye your husband feels guilty that he didnt fight for custody of Sal sooner, but things are what they are. Sals mental health is over and beyond what either of you can do.

    Do take care.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
  12. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    I am so sorry you are in this awful situation.

    I feel sad for Sal too. He's just a little boy. Am I wrong in that or has all my suffering made me overly compassionate?

    The boy needs help and I'm hoping that someone can help him. He is your husband's son and he obviously needs love although I understand you are totally creeped out by his behavior and I would be also.

    I think it takes men a lot longer to come around than moms. I have a good friend dealing with that now with her husband and their son who is autistic.

    I agree the right therapist is needed for all of you. Maybe having him stay at grandma's is a good idea. At least until you sort this out or something.

    Hugs to you.
  13. PsychMom

    PsychMom New Member

    Another thing is he would've had to train the dog to do this.. it wouldn't have been something the dog would just know to do.. he said he would let the dog lick his anus then would get him to mount him.

    Like WHAT THE HECK! This was something that took methodology and planning.

    He said it was happening as frequent as every day sometimes ever other day.

    I mean we checked in on him every hour when he was in his room and never suspected anything!
  14. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    Can I ask what breed of dog this is? I can't imagine a dog mounting a person or maybe I'm naive!
  15. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    Well, you've gotten great advice from everyone who's responded, so I'm just going to add one small thing: take the dog into the vet and get him swabbed. Due to the act that occurred, it is possible the dog may have picked up an infection.

    There are some "bugs" we humans carry in our lower digestive tracts that can cause genital infections or UTIs in dogs. You don't have to give details, just tell the vet that the dog has been licking himself excessively or has been urinating frequently in small amounts NOT related to marking.

    The vet will check the dog visually, swab him if they think it's necessary, and probably put the dog on a course of antibiotics.

    As regarding Sal, I think deep down inside, you realize that these "predelictions" of his mean that he won't be able to live in a home environment with animals OR vulnerable humans.

    I'm very sorry
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  16. BloodiedButUnbowed

    BloodiedButUnbowed Active Member

    This doesn't sound like typical pre-teen sexual experimentation. Not by a long way.

    The issue to me is that Sal is obtaining sexual gratification from exploiting weaker or helpless creatures.

    From where I sit, Sal is sick and needs help. He is too sick for you to help him, or your husband, or your mother in law. He needs intensive professional help. And I don't mean to be negative but the success rate with kids as disturbed as Sal seems to be, isn't great. I agree that he needs an expert or as close to it as you can get. His behavior is truly disturbing. As much as you might not want to see him go back to live with his mother that might be what is needed to protect your baby son and your pets.

    His grandmother doesn't sound like a viable option as he will continue to act out with her, from what you say.

    I am so sorry this is happening to you. You MUST protect your baby son from him.
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  17. PsychMom

    PsychMom New Member

    He's a pit bull.
  18. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Because our son acted so nice to all adults it never crossed my.mind that he had touched my babies, but he did it for three years and his threats to kill us all (burn the house down he said) kept both from telling us. That is how abusers keep their victims quiet. The younger kids have been badly hurt by the abuser and think he has more power than God so they dont talk to keep themselves and their parents from dying in a fire. Our dangerous kid stole a pocket knife from Walmart and used it on 5 and 3 year old when he abused them. My daughter has a little scar on her cheek from this. At the time, when asked about it, she said tje cat scratched her. That made sense. The cat had sharp claws. But it wasnt true.

    The CPS workers who investgated this were off the charts amazing. They got the family the max services for healing and we bonded closer than ever and did heal. My abused kids are grown and doing great. But the abuser had leave in order for us to heal and feel safe. When an 11-13 year old touches a 3-5 and 5-7 year old (six year age difference) it is treated as adult abuse which is why the boy was charged and found guilty and had to sign up as a sexual predator. It was not our idea to charge him. The court did it.

    I trust your fear.i believe Sal so far has not touched your baby.i also believe he is at high risk to do so one day. Your husband is focused on the wrong thing. Sal's sexual orientation doesnt make him a bad person, no matter what it is. His anger, perverted behavior, lying etc puts him at risk for being very dangerous. That is ehat should freak out husband.

    My suggestion is to take the baby and the dogs and leave until Sal is no longer living there. It is not apt to get better while he is in your house with a guilty father who is more worried about a gay son than a dangerous one.

    You may have to save yourself and others. There is nobody else who will do it. Your husband is in the dangerous place of denial.

    I wish you well.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
  19. BloodiedButUnbowed

    BloodiedButUnbowed Active Member

    I am sure you love Sal and your husband very much, and it may sound like we are hysterical and overreacting. If so, I get it, but your situation is very serious. Sometimes it is easier to see from the outside.

    I suggest you might want to speak with your own, individual counselor about this situation.

    I would think a temporary separation until Sal can be safely re-homed, either to his mother or possibly to some kind of treatment center, given the circumstances, would definitely be in your baby's best interest as difficult as it would be for you, and understanding the strain it would put on your marriage. It is better to be proactive than to one day find Sal experimenting with your infant, or toddler, or preschool, or elementary school aged son, as you have already discovered him doing with your pet.

    I am sorry to be so blunt but that is what you are facing as long as Sal is allowed to live under the same roof as your baby.
  20. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I have been through it. I want NOBODY else to experience this. Only our extremely strong marital bond and closeness to awesome little ones saved our family.

    Sal is not a normal kid. Your baby innocent. Dont take a chance with him.