Hi new hear...problem with my angry 14 year old son

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Butterfly77, Jan 23, 2012.

  1. Butterfly77

    Butterfly77 New Member

    just want to make a long story short as I need advice or at least have an idea of what to expect.

    My son freaks out when he doesn't get his way to the point where he is calling me names and screaming at me. About two weeks he was Baker Acted for attacking me.

    Yesterday he got mad at me because I told him not to call directory assistance on his phone and he started the behavior again of calling me names, left the house, cried outside on the ground ground for about two hours after he came back.

    This morning he didn't want to go to school so he started the name calling again - started punching walls. I called the cops and they forced him to go to school. I am scared of him. I am waiting on a phone call from his psychiatrist right now. What will he do? Will he institutionalize and maybe evaluate him? I feel like he is either going to harm himself, my other son, or me. Thanks for your help.
  2. soapbox

    soapbox Member

    Hi, and welcome -

    I'm rushing off to a meeting, but wanted to start a response at least.

    Can you give us some background?
    - any diagnoses> (dxes) such as adhd, LDs, Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), mental health issues, etc.
    - on an IEP?
    - family set-up, stability, etc.
    - own child or adopted
    - early development

    The more you can tell us, the more various parents on the board will be able to respond.

    My initial take - with no history - is that this is could be...
    - drug use, or
    - a raft of un-caught issues and challenges - things that should have been diagnosed many years ago, and he is frustrated, fed up, and going crazy.
  3. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Hi.... several of us have been in your shoes. Is he on any medications? Has he had any evaluations.. a neuropsychologist evaluation? Does he have any diagnosis?

    I am sorry you are going through this, must be scary and sad too. I had to pick my kid up from school for shoving his teacher over today so, yeah, it is not a picnic for sure.
  4. Butterfly77

    Butterfly77 New Member

    thanks for responding. He has ADD, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), and Anxiety... those have been diagnosed. Something else is wrong though....maybe psychopath? I guess I shouldn't speculate. We're seeing the psychiatrist today at 4:30pm.

    He is my biological child, his father and I seperated when he was 3. My husband just asked me to leave recently because he destroyed several items in the house when he became angry.

    He is a very bright kid but makes terrible grades.

    When he doesn't get his way he starts with the name calling and in my face yelling.
  5. Butterfly77

    Butterfly77 New Member

    currently taking Adderall, Prozac, and Paxil
  6. soapbox

    soapbox Member


    Please. Believe me. Yes there is something else going on. And no, it isn't "psychopath".
    Please. Do NOT bring that term up to any MH professional.

    More likely - he has a whole RAFT of other things that have never been diagnosed, and he's been called lazy, and a behavior problem and an attitude problem, by schools, for YEARS and YEARS. To the point that he is literally going insane. But the problem isn't that he is going insane - the problem is that the REAL problems have not been identified.

    psychiatrist isn't good enough.
    He needs an immediate, comprehensive evaluation for everything under the sun. Including Occupational Therapist (OT) for sensory and motor skills, and Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) for auditory processing disorders including all the lesser known ones like auditory figure ground.

    Two reasons...
    1) There's a LOT of stuff that looks like ADD/ADHD... and maybe isn't. MANY kids on this board... started with a diagnosis of ADHD and ended up with Aspie or Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD).
    2) There's a LOT of stuff that really frequently goes WITH the ADD/ADHD diagnosis.

    So, its going to be one or the other.
    Getting help for those, will start solving the other problems.
    Our difficult child was in HS before we started getting things turned around.

    What goes "with" ADD/ADHD? (I'll just use the ADHD term - its faster to type)
    1) 50% if people with ADHD have Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD) - developmental coordination disorder. You may or may not be able to get the diagnosis, but the Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation will tell you if motor skills are a problem, AND provide therapies that help, AND document accommodations and interventions for school.

    2) LDs are extremely co-morbid with ADHD - dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalcula... there's lots more. SCHOOL should have picked up on these, but once a kid gets labeled as a "behavior problem", they stop looking (in my opinion).

    3) If you have ADHD and a Learning Disability (LD), you have a 70% chance of having an Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) as well...

    I'd be hammering on every door possible for the Occupational Therapist (OT) and Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) stuff, like yesterday. If stuff comes up there (trust me, something will if you have good testers) then you have even more ammunition to push for a comprehensive evaluation.

    Does he have an IEP at school? If not, check out the Special Education section for how to start that process "the right way", which will also give him some protections at school. School testing will NOT cover all the bases - but while you are going to ask for everything under the sun, for an absolute minimum they have to dig into the Learning Disability (LD) stuff.

    Hope I'm not coming across harsh, here... its just that I understand the urgency. been there done that. Slightly different behaviors, but... its not that many months ago that difficult child could have been expelled from school. The major-trigger diagnosis for us was... Auditory Processing Disorders (APD).
  7. soapbox

    soapbox Member

    By the way... anxiety and/or depression are extremely common secondary dxes for "our" kids - they aren't getting the help they need, which means adults are interacting with them inappropriately. They either turn inward and self-destruct (the anxiety/depression stuff), or turn outward (anger masking depression)... or both in sequence.

    And... dump the ODD diagnosis. Yes, there is a behavior problem. You need to figure out WHY. The ODD diagnosis only tells you there is a problem. So, keep digging.
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    We really need more info to have good possible answers for you. I am so sorry you are having a hard time right now. My daughter gave me fits when she was 12-19. Because of my daughter, I need to ask you if you are POSITIVE that your teenage son is not dabbling in drugs/alcohol. My daughter was and we didn't know it (call me Denial or Stupid...either fits). That changed her from a sweet if insecure child into a monster and drugs can do that to any child. Some people with younger difficult child's don't automatically think of drug use, but it's such a huge factor with difficult child teens, most of us with teenage difficult children do wonder about this issue. Scary, I know.

    Aside from that question, can you please give us some background on your child's very early history? Was he always a problem? Did he have any chaos happen in his life either in the distant past or currently? Any psychiatric problems or substance abuse on either side of his biological family tree, even if he never sees one side of his family? (He is still 50% his birthfather's DNA). On that subject, what are your family dynamics? Two biological parents? Siblnigs? Stepfamily? Any possible abuse in his background?

    in my opinion we simply don't know enough to tell you much. HOWEVER...whenever teens suddenly change, if, in fact, this is a sudden change, it is always smart to consider the ugly specter of drug abuse.

    Hope to hear more about your child so I can help more.
  9. Butterfly77

    Butterfly77 New Member

    Hi, and thanks for all the information. He has not been evaluated correctly because I have never heard of these tests. I found out that he has done "spice" and smoked pot before. As far as abusing drugs - I don't let him out of the house since he stole and wrecked my car on Dec 21st. I randomly search his room or make him empty pockets and take off shoes to make sure he isn't sneaking stuff.

    I am afraid to sleep because what if he kills me in my sleep. I can't give up on him but I hope he gets evaluated in a mental facility today. I don't know if the psychiatrist can understand how bad it is.

    He was diagnosis with ADD when he was about seven. He has anxiety pretty bad and at times I feel horrible for him because I struggle with it myself.

    As far as I know no one abuses drugs on either side of his family. Both sides of family have drinkers but I don't believe there are addiction problems.
  10. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Let me paraphrase, and then re-ask the other poster's questions.

    1) ADD diagnosis at age 7
    2) anxiety pretty much from that point on
    3) medicated at some point for ADD, and at some point for anxiety/depression.

    When did the extreme behaviors start?
    Who did the ODD diagnosis?
    When did the drug use start?
  11. Butterfly77

    Butterfly77 New Member

    He has always been difficult but extremely in sixth grade when he was 11. I am not sure when he first tried drugs but my best would be at 13. And the ODD (if that is what I call Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)) was diagnosis at 14.

    He started ADDerall at age seven and recently was put on paxil and prozac
  12. buddy

    buddy New Member

    yeah, I dont think she said he was diagnosed oppositional defiant, I think she said Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD).

    I think you are right, sounds like time for a full neuropsychologist evaluation. And an emergency plan.

    any chance to get alarms for his door so you can hear if he opens closes... so you can sleep better...maybe you need it for YOUR door???
  13. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Please give us more details about the "always been difficult" stuff - the stuff that goes right back to... infancy? toddlerhood? start of school?
    These are the behaviors that will tell us much more about some possible sources of his challenges...
  14. Butterfly77

    Butterfly77 New Member

    I sleep with my door open because I am afraid he will start a fire because that is another hobby. I am afraid of what will go on behind my door too. I mean difficult as in always crying when he was an infant constantly wanted to be held didn't sleep through night until he was three and never took naps. He has always lied even about things that don't matter, always sneaks food and always has..even if I don't care and tell him I don't care if he eats. never does school work and has always pitched major fits when things don't work out the way he wants. But when he was 11 it changed into more of a violent behavior.

    I lock valuables in a safe...keys and medications
  15. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Butterfly...I doubt he tried spice once and only smoked pot once. That's what all kids who use drugs say. My daughter wasn't let out of the house either. She found ways to get drugs at school and took them at night and hid them on her person. She also snuck out her window in the middle of t he night when we were sleeping. I am wondering if this isn't a big part of the problem. Our difficult children are far more apt to use drugs and drink than "typical" kids. Do you like his friends? What are they like? What are his interests? Does he participate in extracurricular activities?

    Has he gotten better or worse on Paxil and Prozac? That's an odd combination and can cause activation and even violence. Especially together.
  16. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Probably several things going on, but for one... it is not unusual for kids with health issues when very young, to end up with "insecure attachment". This is not the same as Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) (so don't even go there). But there are various levels of attachment/detachment. And that alone can cause all sorts of behavior issues. This would be something to bring up with the psychiatrist. But before you do, please go back and document all the history you can remember. Look under site resources - there's tools there for collecting this info.

    The next complicating factor is likely puberty... and if you're starting with insecure attachment, those hormones really make everything worse.

    And then... he's "lost" two father figures. One at age 3, and one just recently, and THAT has to be a major complicating factor, too.
  17. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Did he spend his early years in chaos? The fire starting and violence reminds me of attachment issues and this is very serious. It is potentially dangerous. Don't want to scare you, but we lived with this.

    The other two markers for attachment issues, which cause a lack of conscience, are peeing and pooping inappropriately and cruelty to animals. If he has all three, you have reason to be afraid. I hope he doesn't and I hope you can find help!
  18. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    Hopefully, the psychiatrist admitted him to the psychiatric hospital today. I would suggest asking them to do a medication wash and then complete psychiatric testing. There is a lot going on with your son and the only way to start getting better is to figure it all out.
  19. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Since you report he had such a hard time as a baby, it could be that he had undiagnosed pain or discomfort of some sort that thru no fault of your own, could have been a part in developing attachment disorder. many of the things you write about really match descriptions in books about kids who have Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD), reactive attachment disorder. The only way to know is to go to a specialist in Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD), general psychs can do more harm than good because they dont see past the superficial charm that difficult child might be able to snow them with. Of course there are other reasons that these issues can be happening so a complete evaluation is necessary but here is a checklist so you can see if it is something you might want to have checked...Attachment Disorder, Attachment Therapy - Symptoms of Attachment Disorder in Children

    Sounds like you are really living a scary situation and he needs to be in a hospital, maybe an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) as others have suggested. This is not a normal functional way to live. Many of us live in extremes so if it hits US as extreme, it probably is.... you have a right to be confused and sad about all of this for sure! Hope you check in frequently..... Buddy