Howdy again...posting about my nephew this time

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by moonglow, Nov 30, 2010.

  1. moonglow

    moonglow New Member

    For those that remember me...just a quick update on my son..and I better not jinx it typing this on here! lol. He is doing really well. Straight A's in longer considered Learning Disability (LD). Almost 15! wow...where did the time go? Still on medications for anxiety and his ADHD but doing really well. (has a girlfriend even..;)) Me I am just getting older and mean out of shape..yea that is it..heh.

    I am sure my sig is out of date so ignore that.

    I am posting about one of my sister's adopted son's..the youngest who is 19 and bipolar...has a boarder line IQ of 80 due to his biomom drinking and doing drugs when she was carrying him. Also delusional at times, violent at times, and has Asperger. For many years they thought he just had ADHD and a severe learning disability. Its just been in the last few years my sister got a more accurate diagnosis of him.

    Fast forward the usually stuff...dropped out of school..(told to leave basically as he only showed up for lunch and to start fights), lost good apartment my sister set him up in (he was too abusive towards her to have him continue staying there) wandered around..constantly mixed up with the wrong kind of people...lived with whomever felt sorry for him and took him in...ended up in jail for three months all charges finally dropped and now our town and my mom and her husband are trying desperately to help him. They first tried getting him into a hospital to get him back on wouldn't take him unless he was suicidal or about to kill someone. Many appointments made, changed, cancelled due to this or that..its been insane! etc, etc...and here several weeks later he is still not on medications, not welcomed at his mom's house (call her and left a message cussing her out for not answering his billion calls to her) or mom and Rich's house because of bad things he did. very bad thing.

    Of course he has had years of therapy...didn't act any better while on medications so my burning question here is this...if we can take him to court and have him declared there any placement out there for people like him at all? He really needs 24 hours 7 day a week supervision. He is getting disability but hasn't been able to understand what its really for. He is constantly losing his debit card (or rather his 'friends' steal it and wipe out his account) loses his ID card, etc, etc. He is unable to handle living some place alone and paying bills or doing normal things we all do day to day to keep things running. He is great at lying, being sneaky, doing perverted things and getting himself into trouble. I am just afraid the medications won't help that much...if they do they can't make him smarter. If we managed to get him into the hospital they longest they keep them anymore is three to five days...but he could get set up with a case worker (which he did have and drove crazy before), a medication dr and so forth...he had all those before and it didn't do one bit of good. So I am wondering if there is a group home or any place for people like him that aren't just mentally ill but just not capable of truly taking care of themselves.

    Thanks! (I tried to condenses..I know you all know the 'story' why type a book?). :( Also his mom is now in control of his money and mom's husband only gives him a little at a time to keep things under control. Without an ID card he can't have a debit card anyway. they have him set up in one of those weekly hotel room know pay by the week things. Not in the best part of town but its the best they can do right now.

    I have search and searched the net and I can't find any place for disabled homes or something. Surely there is something out there.
  2. Estherfromjerusalem

    Estherfromjerusalem Well-Known Member

    Moonglow! Julie! Is that really you? How wonderful to "see" you after all this time. What a great update about Nate.

    I'm sorry about your sister's brother. Since I'm not from the States, I haven't any idea of what is available so I can't help with any knowledge. But I just had to say hello to you.

    Love, Esther

    PS. I'm a greatgrandmother now -- my greatgrandson is already two months old!
  3. moonglow

    moonglow New Member

    Hi Esther! Yes its me...I still pop in here once in awhile. Great to see you. :) That is exciting news about the new grandbaby. :) By the time I have any grandkids I am going to be really old! ick.

  4. Suz

    Suz (the future) MRS. GERE

    Hi Julie!

    Yes, there are programs out there for disabled adults. Have her contact her local MHMR (Mental Health/Mental Retardation) for information. There are group homes and Independent Living Programs.

  5. moonglow

    moonglow New Member

    He isn't considered mentally retarded though. We have group homes here for mentally retarded adults but Kenny is just above the boarder line for that in fact his IQ used to be higher and has dropped for some strange reason which the doctors can't figure out....and his mental illness and other behavior problems he would need care in that direction. He can cook meals for himself and do housework,(that is he can...doesn't mean he does) but can't handle bills, even making appointments for himself is a challenge...that kind of thing. I have worked in the group homes here for the MR adults here and he wouldn't fit their requirements. He would have those poor people so upset all the time too..:( He has some major sexual issues that stem from being sexually abused that need monitoring also. Right now he is very manic also because he hasn't been on his medication in so long. Trying to get something about that done has been running into one brick wall after another. :(

    If you meant him you would never suspect anything wrong with him. He can make a great impression with first anyway. And his reading compensation is high too. But when he is told things the information seems to get scrambled badly. :(

    Nice seeing you Susie. :)
  6. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    Hi Julie - good to see you and so glad to hear your son is doing so well (fingers crossed against the board jinx, LOL).

    thank you was in a similar boat at 18. Higher IQ, but drug use really dumbed him down. The problem we ran into was even if we had had him declared incompetent (and that wasn't a sure thing because he also presents really well), we could not force him into a safe living environment. We would get the call when/if he fell apart, was arrested or hospitalized, but in terms of day-to-day stuff, guardianship wouldn't do a darn thing for him, or for us to help him. All of the mental health agencies for adults are voluntary, meaning the adult has to be compliant and receptive to help. thank you was hooked up with an adult agency, got an apartment in a building that catered to adults with- various disabilities... but because he was so utterly noncompliant, he got dropped from everyone's books. He has the right to refuse help, the agencies have the right to drop him, and it would have happened even if we had been his guardians. Just because he needs help and supervision (obviously), it's not going to happen unless he cooperates. Even if we had guardianship, we couldn't force the issue. It's been a truly ugly couple of years now. He's shown signs in the last month or so of possibly making some better choices, but.... it's just so hard to watch them struggle and be taken advantage of and really dig such deep holes, knowing that help might be available if they'd just cooperate a *smidge*.

    I'm sure it varies by state, but here in IL, in order to receive services, or rather in order to be put on the list to potentially receive services at some later date (I'm not holding my breath) as an adult with a developmental disability, IQ must be below 70. Mental Health services are strictly on a voluntary basis (unless danger to self or others). So it sounds like your nephew is in a no-man's land, or would be here anyway.

    Still.... I would check with- dept of mental health and developmental disabilities. You never know when you are going to run into someone who's got a good list of resources. I'd also check with- Voc. Rehab (or whatever it's called in his state) for job training and job support. Voc Rehab might actually be the best place to start.

    A kid that thank you had been in Residential Treatment Center (RTC) and TLP with, had known for years, was much more compliant or at least put on a good show for the adult agencies. He's currently living independently in an apartment, on SSI, and the adult MH agency helps with budgeting as well as medications and doctor appointments. Someone checks in with- him a couple times a week just to make sure everything is going okay. He and thank you are pretty similar in terms of abilities and connection with- the real world, with the exception being the kid's ability to comply and cooperate, while thank you would rather shoot himself in the foot. Just my experience, but that seems to be the key to getting adult mental health services - cooperation and compliance. No one is going to force him to take medications, or get a job, or do what he is supposed to be doing. They will guide and offer assistance, but at the end of the day, it's still up to the individual. There are a whole lot of people who want help - I can't blame agencies for dropping the people who don't want it.

    It's really backwards and oxymoronic - has never made any sense to me to allow a severely mentally ill person to decide whether or not they need help. Duh. We spent a horrible year (at least) debating the whole guardianship thing, but what it boiled down to is that if we couldn't protect thank you from making his usual awful choices, couldn't advocate for a safe *supervised* living situation unless he cooperated, there was absolutely no point in seeking guardianship once he hit 18. Cooperation has never been thank you's strong suit, LOL.

    My heart goes out to your family. It's a bear of a situation.
  7. moonglow

    moonglow New Member

    Thanks slsh for the words of wisdom from someone who has been there. Kenny doesn't cooperate either and can resist very badly too. His mom had set him up in an apartment there in her city and he had a case worked that would come over and physically give him his medication twice a day at certain times because Kenny would forget to take it. He got where he would be out with whoever his current friends were and not bother to go back to the apartment. Not do the things he was suppose to do to...even if told step by step how to do them. The caseworker was support to pick him up too at certain times to get his medications filled or go to an appointment but Kenny was too busy drinking with his 'friends' and just hanging out with some really bad people that stole from him. He is on disability so he doesn't have to work...don't think he could hold a job anyway. He is just too unstable. He would leave his debit card out with the pin number apparently on it and his friends would take it. But no matter how bad things got, he never learned. He has been cold and hungry and with nothing...but he doesn't learn. He lost his first apartment because another guy moved in and just stayed Kenny left with another friend to go see his girlfriend in another country and they just ended up staying there...bumming from one place to another.

    I keep reading about how much of the prison population is made up of people like Kenny and we fear that is where he will eventually be at. And you are right, the laws really work against us trying to get help for them before they break the law..and possibly hurt someone doing it. :( And it really makes me so angry how badly the system has failed him (not too mention his two adopted siblings though not blood related).

    For years and years they just thought he was ADHD and had a learning disability....wrong diagnosis and wrong medications! ugh. I think one of the biggest problems with Kenny (besides not being on his medications of course) is he really can't stand to be in some apartment alone all the time. He is very social and needs to be around people...even if it just to talk...for hours on end. He is drawn to those that like to party and tend to be into drugs..and sex and we suspect he already has a STD which he will go spreading around to any girl dumb enough to be with him. :( I am just praying he doesn't get any girl pregnant!! Of course my sister didn't raise him that way. She certainly wasn't having wild parties at her home, or drinking or all of this stuff. That is just where he goes...which I realize part of that is being a rebellious teenager. But this one had totally NO common sense whatsoever...:(

    IF he can actually get him in to see a head shrink...and they actually do the evaluation we have been trying to get happen for weeks now (latest one was cancelled this morning as the dr said she didn't think she was qualified to deal with his sever problems) then maybe they will have some idea if he can be put in any programs or not.

    Yea its been hard..especially for mom and her husband who has never had to deal with anything like this ever before...not on a day to day basis and its just consuming him. He is doing most of the leg work too. Its really wearing him down. :( I try to find information to pass to him to possibly help Kenny. I think he has this idea if he can get Kenny on medications...get him his ID...get him a nice little apartment here Kenny will somehow settle down and things will be better. I have tired telling them what sister said..when he was on medications, he wasn't any better. Just slept alot. Its not a magic bullet. :(

    Thanks again.
  8. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful


    Glad to hear difficult child is doing so much better!! Great update there.

    Yes they can have him declared mentally incompetent. Not exactly sure how one goes about such things though. And there are programs and halfway houses all over that help them to live semi independently while giving them the supervision they need. There is one right across the alley from us. A great place.
  9. svengandhi

    svengandhi Well-Known Member

    Has your sister ever looked into the medications that are given once a month or so by shot? I don't know if they would be appropriate for him but they can be a lifesaver. My mother in law's goddaughter, who is my age (early 50's) is schizophrenic. For years, she'd cycle up and down with medication compliance. Then she was put on the once a month regimen and she doesn't have a chance to decide she isn't going to take it anymore. If she doesn't show up for her appointment, a team goes to her home to give her the shot. She refused once and was hospitalized. She's been on this regimen for about 10 years and has not had a relapse.

    Good luck.
  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    After reading his birthmother drank while he has fetal alcohol problems. And that's organic brain damage. Have no idea what you do about that, but they must have group home living around her. I'm sorry she is having such a hard time with him and I'm happy about Nate! I remember you.
  11. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    How great to hear from you Julie. So glad that Nate is doing well. For some reason I still remember you and your Mom taking him to the State Fair with his flower ?? or plant ??. Why I recall the sweetness of that story I can't tell you, lol. :hugs:

    Sorry I have no info to share for your sister. She's had a long hard road parenting, hasn't she. DDD
  12. moonglow

    moonglow New Member

    Hey...nice to see you too! :) I think in some ways my difficult child will always have some difficult child tendencies but don't we all? lol He is going through the teenage stage where he thinks everyone is stupid...I told him soon he will think I am stupid too (and probably already does in some things..ugh). Oh well. I did it too. He is still picky about how people pronounce words. But it finally accepting the fact that his mother, me, cannot say certain words correctly due to my dyslexia so doesn't hassle me about it as much. lol.

    He is five foot 10 inches now and couldn't fit in the dryer to have a fit like he used too..or get stuck behind the fish tank! lol. That poor old fish tank finally got a leak I couldn't fix so we found a home for all the fish and later used it for lizards...which I didn't like very much. After they died, it now sits in the garage for some use for something one day.

    Anyway from what slsh was saying it doesn't sound like having Kenny declared mentally incompetent would actually help him in anyway. From what she is saying he would have to agree to live in a half way house or group home and we know he wouldn't...he most certainly wouldn't want to follow their rules and unless court ordered to stay there, he would just run off. He is intent on partying...having girl friends, and whatever. :(
  13. moonglow

    moonglow New Member

    Now that sounds interesting. I will have my mom's husband ask them about that when he takes Kenny in for his appointment Friday. I am sure though Kenny will refuse saying he hates shots or something though. How did they make it so your mother in law's goddaughter had to do this whether she wanted too or not?

    She drank and did drugs. The doctors seem to think most of the damage was due to the drugs though. The frontal lobe area.
    The executive functions of the frontal lobes involve the ability to recognize future consequences resulting from current actions, to choose between good and bad actions (or better and best), override and suppress unacceptable social responses, and determine similarities and differences between things or events. Therefore, it is involved in higher mental functions.

    The frontal lobes also play an important part in retaining longer term memories which are not task-based. These are often memories associated with emotions derived from input from the brain's limbic system. The frontal lobe modifies those emotions to generally fit socially acceptable norms.
    Well no wonder his judgment is so bad. :( My sister right now is having nothing to do with him. Which I can't blame her. :( Its been tough...really tough. But since she moved him out...she was able to finally get remarried. All she wants now after years of dealing with these kids is to have a life of her own and none of us can blame her for that. She does have the other two over for birthdays and did for Thanksgiving also...but by then Kenny had already worn out his welcome with her and wasn't invited to go.

    Yea she has and her new husband has three difficult child of his own! I know..but they are all also grown. One though..I think he is 20, just got out of prison and they are letting him stay with them for awhile. He was in prison for I think three even my sister's husband has had his own difficult child struggles. So they can certainly relate to each other. We all just want them to have as much peace as won't ever be perfect of course...they will probably always be dealing with their difficult child on some level and the conquenses of their actions...though one conquenses was my sister getting to be a grandma! lol Mason is now four. Long awful story on that but sister's difficult child adopted daughter got herself pregnant thinking a baby would make things all better. The dad tricked into this, has full you can image. That has been difficult too but Mason is a really sweetheart and we all love him to pieces. For awhile there we thought maybe my sister might end up raising him as his dad has his own issues, but its working out.

    Thanks again you all!

    Oh and on the flower..yea..I had Nate entered a contest at the state fair with it..which right now I can't even remember what it looked like. lol And he got second place I think it was? Anyway yea that was pretty neat. :)

  14. Suz

    Suz (the future) MRS. GERE

    Julie, Rob isn't delayed either, but he had diagnozed MH issues. He qualified for Independent Living. One of my ex-neighbor's sons has schizophrenia. He lives independently, runs a small landscaping business, and has a social worker come by his apartment once a week to check in on him.

    You mentioned that this young man as Asperger's. Is that a guess or has he been evaluated and diagnosed? Has anyone searched for AS support groups for information on assistance?

  15. moonglow

    moonglow New Member

    Ok I see thanks for explaining. I am not sure but I think the Asperger's was a recent diagnosis. Like I said for most of his life they just thought he had a severe learning disability and ADHD. He was just on medications for that too. But no matter how much help he got in school he just fell further and further behind. I think if he had been property diagnosis correctly to start with maybe things would have turned out much better for him. But he just wouldn't even try to do his homework or school work and I think people really thought for a long time it wasn't doing it because he just didn't want to learn... no one realized the extent of his problems and it was until I think his last few years of school that my sister found out more about his bimom and about her doing drugs, drinking and even sexually abusing him...and she was only 15! Makes you wonder what she had been through herself..:(

    So he was put in a foster home where he was seriously neglected. Had constant ear infection that the foster mom would never finish giving him his antibiotics so he was practically deaf when my sister got him at age two. He talked like a deaf person for many, many years too. She got him in a early ed type of place to help him with his speech and learning delays. They really thought that was all there was too it and he would be fine.

    Anyway long story short as he hit his teen years and got more and more defiant it was all my sister could do to just manage having a somewhat peaceful home and I don't think she had the time or energy to look into any support groups...probably didn't even think of it. So the answer to that is no. She hasn't looked into Asperger's support groups and we haven't either. Our main goal has been to get him back on medications because he is so manic right now.

    My sister, realizing he was probably not going to graduate from high school she mostly focused on teaching him life skills. There has been too much damage in that relationship now that she really wants nothing to do with him. I can't say I blame her. I also think she was emotionally drained too with the two oldest ones as bad as Kenny..and getting them out on their own. Mom thinks Kenny is the worse of the three, but I disagree. Doesn't matter really though.

    My mom's husband is the one that has mostly been dealing with him now and its just been consuming him. He is also sick ..we both have this head/chest cold stuff going around. His is worse and he finally went to the dr to get on antibiotics for it yesterday. But he is exhausted...disgusted and just at his wits end with Kenny right now. He is disgusted with all the lying Kenny is doing...among other things. Kenny did something when he stayed with them that few days after getting out of jail that is ...well its was just vile and nasty and I don't know how my mom's husband didn't smack him upside the head. :( He is extremely difficult to be around and deal with. Kenny needs constantly professional care but he doesn't believe that, nor want it. He wants to be with girls and party and do what he wants to do without having to follow any rules. Rich is ready to come down hard on him too...

    We need a professional...someone that is experienced with people like Kenny to tell us what is available and what can or cannot be done and I think that is start if we can get him to his appointment on Friday. Part of the problem is the town we live in isn't very big and just doesn't have alot of support for the mentally ill. The city where Kenny was living has more but Kenny has pretty much burned his bridges there. No one wants to work with him. :(

    Anyway...sorry for the ramble..
  16. moonglow

    moonglow New Member

    I should the way...that my mom, Rich and I (mostly poor Rich) have all been doing a crash class in learning about Kenny as he has always been in the city and we didn't have to deal with him on a day to day basis. Rich was very involved though in helping him while he was in jail (and mom too) but still..other then seeing him on family get togethers or staying with us for a few which in that short of period he did act up at times but he always went back home. He has been out of jail probably less then three weeks. We really don't know what we are doing..:( Rich has been talking to my sister alot on the phone though. And I guess since Nate hasn't had any major problems for such a long time we are all out of practice. And Nate learned...Kenny isn't. :(
  17. Suz

    Suz (the future) MRS. GERE

  18. moonglow

    moonglow New Member

    Thanks Suz...yea I will have to look at those later. I have been looking up the affects on drinking and drug use in fetuses and it appears with the exception of more health problems with the drug using mothers, the problems and behavioral problems are pretty much the same for people with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS). I found a very informative video on it on youtube that breaks down some of the problems..and it sounds exactly like Kenny:

    Executive Function Impairment:

    Problems with planning, sequencing

    Difficulty applying knowledge to daily skills


    Impulse control

    Organizational skills

    No future orientation, inability to delay gratification


    Cause and effect





    Aggressive explosive


    Easily frustrated


    Poor ability to read social cues

    Lack of empathy

    Externalized blame

    Excessive demand for attention (needy)

    Inflexible rigid thinking

    Difficulty understanding consequences

    Lack of self awareness, reflection


    Little ability to recognize feelings

    Little ability to articulate feelings

    Sense of urgency and intensity

    Anxiety common

    Labile mood

    Low self esteem.
    Alot of this is similar to mania in bipolar so I could understand if they mis-diagnosis him on that. It seems to be anxiety that keeps him from sleeping much. I haven't really heard of him going through a depressive stage expect when he was on medications and it made him very tired and sleepy all the time and that was assumed to be the depression part of it...when it could have just been the medication.

    Anyway I emailed the video and information to mom and Rich and am hoping they can bring this up tomorrow when they take him to the dr. The professor in the video also said tough love just doesn't work on these kids because they really don't understand. They don't understand cause and effect. The only problem is the video was cut off so I didn't get to hear the rest and so far haven't found the rest of it. Maybe they just need to start all over with Kenny...

    I think any way this could help us at least understand why he does the things he does and maybe change our approach with him. He is ready to take off and move back to the city...Rich was able to talk him out of it. Kenny wants to move to some apartment close to the high school where he was at and totally hates the principle and vice principle there and has threatened to harm them (not to their face as far as I know). So that is the stupidest thing he could do! He is just constantly wanting to DO something..and it always has to be some major thing too like this and doesn't think it through. And he wants to do it NOW! Can't wait...just 'has' to do this big thing right now. He thinks after his appointment tomorrow Rich is going to take him back to the city but Rich isn't. Kenny would just end up in jail again because he will be right back with the same group of people he has gotten into trouble with before...and Rich has told him that. But whether Kenny truly understands we just don't know. So Rich and mom are ready to lay down the law tomorrow and you aren't going back there. And he if refuses to go to his appointment he will be cut off from his funds (which I sure hope it legal to do!). Its such a mess. :(
  19. Star*

    Star* call 911


    I am so glad to hear my nephew is doing so well - So sorry about your sis and her son. That's just so - tragic.......Isn't there a DDSN close that can offer help? Maybe you can check with the hospital close and see what they have for fetal alcohol syndrome babies? there may be a group that helps young adults ? Just thinking outloud.

    Hugs - Glad to see you again. Merry Christmas -
  20. moonglow

    moonglow New Member

    lol you are so cute. :) Nate is currently upset with the school because they have a rule for not touching other people and he and his girlfriend want to hold hands and he put his arm around her and got yelled at. Poor thing. He was ready to give the teacher what for over her YELLING at him and wants to tell her to treat him with some respect. I told him he was walking on thin ice there. Teachers don't like being corrected. I let him vent and all his big talk now (thank God) never happens. He just has to get it out of his system so when push comes to shove..he won't shove back. lol. He is doing a billion times better on controlling his temper. (knock on I say that and watch the school will be calling me ..!! better not!).

    Kenny is hopefully at the local mental health hospital...well not really local..its in a town about 40 minutes from us. That is local when you live in rural towns though. lol. So now its a matter of waiting until they get back to find out what happened and if they can help him (well they can...they have helped in the past) but rather whether he accepts that help or not...

    Wonderful seeing you too! And Merry Christmas to you too! I had Nate...who has never developed a fear of heights, get on the roof and hang Christmas lights up for me yesterday. Only problem...I had him put them up wrong so there is no way to plug them it to light them. ugh! He was a riot though...should have video taped