I can't do this....

[BusynMember]

Copa, I so agree with you (wow tired lol).; Mentally ill people work I always worked, even if I gotl fired. I tried again. Howrver, depression and anxiety do interfer with the quality of how well you can work and get along with others and it impacts motivation. It even affects attention span and can hinder cognitive ability. The maladaptive thoughts run through your mind rendering your mind far less capable of doing well. Copa, I say this gently. Your 27 year old son who is bright still can not hold a job in the communoty. Mental illness? I don't know.

Mental illness is no different than diabetes or epilepsy. It is a physical illness and requires treatment...boTh physical and emotional support to help you learn how to deal with the hard emotional interference in your mind. It is not "all in your head." It is usually a physical disorder of brain chemistry. You can'tcan't just snap out of it either. You do need help, as every illness does. This treatment makes ones outlook brighten and attitude change. That makes life better.

Copa, I was a broken, depressed, mess in my 20s. I had to take medications to get out of the darkness and, work therapeutically on how to deal with depression and anxiety. I prefer logical therapy that teaches coping skills, such as cognitive behavioral therapy. I worked hard to accept myself and overcome many challenges. I am happy now. It did not look good for me in my 20s. Not until I started CBT.

No. Mental illness should not stop one from working. But it clouds your mind so that you are unable to have a clear head and do your best. It requires treatment, like diabetes. Or it will hold a person back, whether or not others ,who are not mentally ill, believe that it is not a REAL illness and no excuse for not doing ones best in life. That is wrongful thinking.

Untreated, mental illness will hold one back no matter what non mentally ill people think because it's a disease that affects they brain. And what is more important than treating an illness that affects ones brain?

If the chemicals in the brain or the wiring or both are faulty, our thinking and functionality will also be off. There is treatment.big feel sad that not everyone with brain disorders chooses to take this gift.

Too many who do not suffer also are not willing to face that this is a real illness that requires intervention. And that makes the mentally ill person afraid to get help. ThE STIGMA IS BAD!!! So they self medicate with pot or worse, and it makes things worse. And they say it helps, but still struggle.

This serious brain disorder of mental illness ruins lives if the person let's it. I refused to let it. I did all I could. At least I am happy, which I consider a miracle.

I think it is dangerous for anyone mentally ill to go Untreated. At the very least you will remain miserable. The worst scenario is suicide. I was well on that path and only shared it with my doctor. I'm still here but I almost wasnt.

I love my life now.

Amen, I guess...lol.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

So a month would go by and we'd be right back here. Maybe not. Maybe pigs will fly.

Many things can happen in one month, Lil. The first, most basic thing is that you and your husband will have your home to yourselves and your lives back. From that perspective, you and Jabber will be able to think about how to help.

Your son actually did pretty well for himself over the many months he was not living with you the last time. Not well in the usual sense, but he worked, and he had someone he loved, and a chance.

***
So...of course you have considered these things. But you do have some bargaining power now (July 1st) that you have not had before, (lately).

Lil, I think Nursing Assistants complete their training with a six week course. I don't know what the time frame is for EMT training. But I do know that if he didn't find CNA work rewarding, he could work it while completing EMT. I don't know how your son feels about that kind of work, but he does seem tender-hearted, when you write about him.

Six weeks isn't very long at all.

It would be shift work, which might suit son very nicely. No waking up in the morning, and perfectly justified in doing so.

The thing is you have that July 1st bargaining point.

The other thing is that if Son were schooling or working, you would not mind him living at home, right?

Maybe, you can use that bargaining point you have now to your (and Son's) full advantage.

You could even pay for the month's rent and if he doesn't go to Nursing Assistant training or doesn't pass classes or ~ well, you know where I am going with that.

Cedar

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

That being said, I still think that he is actively manipulating you. You are upset when he's lonely, depressed, threatening suicide.

Oh, Jabber. It is so much more than being upset. It cuts into our hearts to see the kids hurting.

Cedar

 

[Childofmine]

Lil and Jabber, I so understand the awful angst of where you are right now.

Lil, as the day gets closer, you are going to be more and more ramped up. Interestingly, looking back, I was always more upset than Difficult Child was...about him. He actually was doing pretty fine even homeless. It was ME that couldn't stand it. I would literally crumble in the face of it all and take to my bed and cry and cry and cry.

Jabber, I'm sure you are so over all of this. I know you love your son, but you seem to be sick and tired of it all.

I get that too.

Lil, figure out what you can live with (function with) and start there.

Believe me, your son will be better than you realize homeless. It's an awful thing to even think about our children being homeless when we, by the act of a mere decision, could offer them otherwise.

But there are some basic truths and principles you might want to consider:

1. Every single time he mentions suicide, call 911. If it's a manipulation, that will stop pretty fast.
2. Make it less comfortable in your house, if you are going to let him stay there longer. No special food. No special anything. No cigarettes. Don't spend a penny for anything extra for him. Hound the heck out of him to do even one or two chores. In other words, make it so he WANTS to leave.
3. If you end up not being able to stand just throwing him out, pay for that one month's rent and then keep your distance. Whatever you do, don't let him move back in. If, at the end of the month, he has no resources, then he's made himself homeless without any action from you. That will make it easier on you.
4. I don't believe adult kids should live in the same house with their parents---that's just me but I think even the best of them regress. They need to be out on their own somewhere somehow.

You are in a bad situation and you saw it coming. He has choices. He can manage if he wants to---we know that because he has done it before. But if he doesn't HAVE to, guess what? He won't.

Give him a chance to grow up by figuring out what you can live with right now. Do one thing different. If nothing changes, nothing changes.

I know this is so very very hard. It wrenches you to the bottom of your soul. Hang in there. We're here for you.

 

[Jabberwockey]

Lil, I think Nursing Assistants complete their training with a six week course. I don't know what the time frame is for EMT training. But I do know that if he didn't find CNA work rewarding, he could work it while completing EMT. I don't know how your son feels about that kind of work, but he does seem tender-hearted, when you write about him.

Cedar, he is ill equipped for this type of career. He may seem tender hearted but can be completely clueless when dealing with people. He is severely lacking in social skills (at least around us) and judging by how hard it is for him to make friends this wouldn't be very wise. To give you an example, my Fathers Day card from him was a post on FB. It was a picture of Tyrion Lannister from Game of Thrones holding a crossbow and the caption was "Happy Fathers Day". For those of you who don't watch the show, this was a screen capture from right before he shot his father dead while he was on the toilet. Our son thought it was hilarious and perfectly appropriate. Yeah, not so much.

2. Make it less comfortable in your house, if you are going to let him stay there longer. No special food. No special anything. No cigarettes. Don't spend a penny for anything extra for him. Hound the heck out of him to do even one or two chores. In other words, make it so he WANTS to leave.

This is great in theory CoM but as much as I would love to do this, I also have to acknowledge that it would probably end badly. Instead of doing what I tried to hound him into doing, he would argue with me. Possible violence, probably police involvement, not really an optimal solution. Besides, Lil has a hard time not doing this stuff for him. On several occasions I've heard her say that this was the last pack she was buying for him then just a few days later, she did it again. Not trying to be critical honey, I know you aren't as far along on the whole detachment thing as I am. Just pointing out a fact that would make this difficult.

 

[AppleCori]

Computers seem to be his thing....

wish he would work toward learning programming or something similar.

 

[A dad]

Cedar, he is ill equipped for this type of career. He may seem tender hearted but can be completely clueless when dealing with people. He is severely lacking in social skills (at least around us) and judging by how hard it is for him to make friends this wouldn't be very wise. To give you an example, my Fathers Day card from him was a post on FB. It was a picture of Tyrion Lannister from Game of Thrones holding a crossbow and the caption was "Happy Fathers Day". For those of you who don't watch the show, this was a screen capture from right before he shot his father dead while he was on the toilet. Our son thought it was hilarious and perfectly appropriate. Yeah, not so much.

This is insensitive of me but its so funny. I have a weird sense of humor also and find this kind of things very amusing. I laughed so hard at this.
My wife complains a lot that I have a sadistic sense of humor.

 

[Jabberwockey]

Or quit getting high long enough that he could get the data entry position through the temp service.

 

[GoingNorth]

If he could take a trade school course in coding...that's about 14 mos or so, and demand is high. It's not that difficult work, though it does require focus and attention to detail. People in IT expect one to be a bit strange, though one does have to get along with people.

I worked in IT for nearly 30 years, though more at the nuts n bolts end of things, though I can code, mostly in obsolete languages and a few job control languages.

 

[Jabberwockey]

Oh, I tend to have a very off sense of humor as well and under normal circumstances would have found this hilarious. Considering everything that has happened recently though, not so much.

 

[GoingNorth]

Data entry requires serious focus and attention to detail, though. You have to really care about accuracy. I did data entry for years whenever I wanted to bring in a bit of extra $$$, and I did it during tax season every year until husband became ill. Nice skill to have, and you can always pick up short term jobs through agencies if you can do data entry with reasonable speed and excellent accuracy. I will warn that not all DE machines have a standard keyboard, though.

 

[GoingNorth]

Neither my mother nor I are "touchy feely" people and the bulk of Mother's Day and Birthday cards are pure glurge. She's also not religious.

Makes finding cards for her very difficult. I go for humor, but she's British and has the old-fashioned "dry" sense of humor (as do I).

 

[Lil]

Computers seem to be his thing....

wish he would work toward learning programming or something similar.

I wish he would work toward learning anything.

He actually had put in to work at the library computer lab, but didn't make the cut for interviews. Pity, but a friend told me it's really not a great job; they're constantly battling porn and people are always yelling at you if there's something wrong with the computer. So...maybe for the best.

This is insensitive of me but its so funny. I have a weird sense of humor also and find this kind of things very amusing. I laughed so hard at this.
My wife complains a lot that I have a sadistic sense of humor.

He thought it was funny...timing was bad though.

he could take a trade school course in coding...that's about 14 mos or so, and demand is high. It's not that difficult work, though it does require focus and attention to detail. People in IT expect one to be a bit strange, though one does have to get along with people.

He was literally one class away from a certificate of competition of a computer tech program he did in high school. He chose to graduate early instead. Been downhill ever since.

 

[GoingNorth]

EMT training is an Associate's degree plus field training in most states, so at least two years.

 

[Lil]

He's not going to school. #1. He doesn't want to. #2. Even if he did want to, since he blew off a year of college and got an awesome 0.00 GPA - never attended classes an entire year - he's no longer eligible for student loans until he's attended a year (semester?) at his own expense, and he has no money. #3. We're already tapped out of savings and credit, mostly because of using our home equity for the afore-mentioned college room and board.

 

[RN0441]

Lil I think the earlier suggestion for you and Jabber to see a therapist on how to deal with your son and plan next steps to enable him to grow into his own is a good idea.

My husband and I went once to deal with our son's situation before we ended up sending him to rehab - different situation but still a good idea to talk to someone that is unbiased on how to deal with this as a couple.

I think it would make you feel better that you're doing something. It did us.

 

[Lil]

I keep thinking...MAYBE...if he has a job (either a full-time or 2 part times) by July 1, then we pay the first month's rent. BUT, he has to be able to pay it after that, or why bother?

We have to get it through his head that he CAN pay it by himself, he just has to get a decent job! He can't count on J or any of his other useless friends.

 

[Lil]

Lil I think the earlier suggestion for you and Jabber to see a therapist on how to deal with your son and plan next steps to enable him to grow into his own is a good idea.

My husband and I went once to deal with our son's situation before we ended up sending him to rehab - different situation but still a good idea to talk to someone that is unbiased on how to deal with this as a couple.

I think it would make you feel better that you're doing something. It did us.

We've done it before. Guess we could do it again.

Well all, my boss just got canned today and the new boss is making the rounds. Better stop wasting state resources. I'll be gone a bit.

 

[GoingNorth]

I think parents sometimes regress as well when their adult children return to the nest.

When husband went away to Boot camp, the lease on my apartment expired and my landlord wouldn't go for month to month. So, I wound up staying with my mother for 3 mos.

My mother slipped back into "mommy mode": fixing me meals, letting me shower first to be sure I got enough hot water, etc.

The absolute capper was when she did my laundry for me! I was thrilled when she said I could use her washer and dryer as it saved me hauling laundry all over the place, as well as saving me a lot of $$$.

We had words over the laundry, not bad words and I thanked her effusively. It was more to the effect of, "Mom! I'm 22. I've been living on my own for 5 years. Who do you think did my laundry then?

Even now, when I'll be 56 on July 21st, she STILL, if I am over, automatically sets up a cup of tea for me if she's making tea for herself.

She won't let me make her a cup of tea because "her's" tastes better. Of course, I like the way my version tastes, better as well.

 

[RN0441]

Do it again. You are all at a different time and place now aren't you?

Try a different therapist. That's what I would do!