I need your feedback, counsel, suggestions, etc.

[Beta]

Four weeks ago, I made a missing persons report to the Phoenix police department. A week later, an officer called to say that he had had contact with our son while our son was shoplifting in a downtown store. He sent me a photo of Josh, and it was difficult to look at. Since then, my husband and I have tossed the idea around of going out there within the next week or so and spending about five days searching for him in the areas of downtown he has been seen. The other night, we sat down to look at flights and hotels, and when we added up the cost to go, we realized it would be at least $2,000 to do this. IF we found him, and IF he agreed to go back home with us, it would be another $1,000.

We are really struggling with whether to go or not. If we had a good chance of finding him, it would be worth it to us to go. But we know that the chances of us finding him are not great. We have no idea where he is staying. The shelters can't tell you if your loved one has been there or is currently there because of HIPPA, which is absolutely frustrating. I understand the need for privacy in most cases, but when you have a family member who is slowly killing themselves and you want to try to intervene but can't without information, it just seems absurd to protect that person's privacy while they kill themselves.

When the officer called me, he told me that he offered to let Josh use his phone to call us and he offered to help Josh get some help with shelter/addiction. Josh refused, saying, "It's complicated." So, as far as I know, if he wanted to contact us, he could do that but seems to choose not to contact us. I'm not an expert on addiction, but is someone who is in this situation capable of remembering that and cognitively being aware of that choice? I tell myself that he could contact us any day if he wanted to, so he must not want to. But then I think, "Well, maybe he's so messed up from the fentanyl and from living as a homeless person that he can't even cognitively function well enough to make that choice so maybe we need to make the effort to try to find him."

Do any of you have any suggestions, feedback, or counsel about what we should do? What would you do in this situation? If we do go, do you have any suggestions for our search? (I would take flyers with his photo on it with me to give out or put up in various places)

Thanks for any input you can give me.

 

[Deni D]

Beta, this is really tough. Do you think if you find him he will listen to you?

If I went, I would start in the area he was spotted shop lifting. I think I'd also talk to the local PD, I'm not sure but I don't think just finding out where someone is would be considered a HIPPA violation, with the PD. I think I'd also ask them if they could give you any info on how to contact outreach people in the area, and see what they know. I didn't think a shelter was considered a medical facility but it could just be some kind of general privacy rule for them not to give out the name of someone who was there, maybe because of DV issues.

On the side of any medical personnel, hospital, ER, clinics, wherever ~ they can't give you any info but you can give them info and tell them it's for if/when he's seen by them. I did this with ER's and mental health units numerous times. I got the "I can neither confirm nor deny" statement and explained that I wasn't asking them anything but here's my son's medical/mental history in case he comes in and the doctor wants to see it. They gave me quite a pushback, because they have to be very careful not to set themselves up for losing their jobs, but they took the info and I know they used it in a couple of my son's hospitalizations. I think you could do the same with providing contact info to them for him to contact you if he agrees.

I don't think I would put flyers up anywhere. Instead I would maybe show them to people and ask if they have seen him. I would thinks someone who's not all there would probably go into hiding as much as they could if they saw a flyer with their picture on it.

So that's just what I would do if I took the trip but as far as it being a good idea or not I really have no clue. Maybe try to talk to an addiction specialist to see what they think. I say addiction because even though he's also mentally ill it seems the addiction is ruling his life right now.

Praying for you.

 

[Crayola14]

One good thing is that he’s in Phoenix where there is never a winter. If someone is going to be homeless, the temperatures are much safer for him there. If you pick him up and he agrees to go with you, he might decide to leave the state and be homeless in some other state where the temperatures are below freezing. You would be more worried than you already are.

The only option left might be to get a social worker involved. In rare cases, a judge can force someone into a 3-day psychiatric hold. It’s extremely difficult to make that happen these days. Go ahead and look into it. Arizona’s laws might be different than other states. Find out as much as you can.

 

[ksm]

If he was caught shoplifting, is there a court date? Maybe, if you want to take a chance you could show up for that...but he may not show up. You might ask the police if they have an online daily register and jail log that is searchable. Get the website address and you can keep an eye that way.

It's oddly reassuring that at bedtime I can search the local websites and see that she's not in trouble. I can also search her new "friends" and find out previous charges against them.

hugs...this is all so hard.

Ksm

 

[Beta]

Beta, this is really tough. Do you think if you find him he will listen to you?

If I went, I would start in the area he was spotted shop lifting. I think I'd also talk to the local PD, I'm not sure but I don't think just finding out where someone is would be considered a HIPPA violation, with the PD. I think I'd also ask them if they could give you any info on how to contact outreach people in the area, and see what they know. I didn't think a shelter was considered a medical facility but it could just be some kind of general privacy rule for them not to give out the name of someone who was there, maybe because of DV issues.

On the side of any medical personnel, hospital, ER, clinics, wherever ~ they can't give you any info but you can give them info and tell them it's for if/when he's seen by them. I did this with ER's and mental health units numerous times. I got the "I can neither confirm nor deny" statement and explained that I wasn't asking them anything but here's my son's medical/mental history in case he comes in and the doctor wants to see it. They gave me quite a pushback, because they have to be very careful not to set themselves up for losing their jobs, but they took the info and I know they used it in a couple of my son's hospitalizations. I think you could do the same with providing contact info to them for him to contact you if he agrees.

I don't think I would put flyers up anywhere. Instead I would maybe show them to people and ask if they have seen him. I would thinks someone who's not all there would probably go into hiding as much as they could if they saw a flyer with their picture on it.

So that's just what I would do if I took the trip but as far as it being a good idea or not I really have no clue. Maybe try to talk to an addiction specialist to see what they think. I say addiction because even though he's also mentally ill it seems the addiction is ruling his life right now.

Praying for you.

Thank you Deni. Lots of good suggestions. I agree about putting up flyers. My husband pointed that out. I have a contact at the P.D. that has had contact with our son, and I can ask about whether there are churches or volunteers who have contact with the homeless.

 

[Beta]

If he was caught shoplifting, is there a court date? Maybe, if you want to take a chance you could show up for that...but he may not show up. You might ask the police if they have an online daily register and jail log that is searchable. Get the website address and you can keep an eye that way.

It's oddly reassuring that at bedtime I can search the local websites and see that she's not in trouble. I can also search her new "friends" and find out previous charges against them.

hugs...this is all so hard.

Ksm

Ksm,
They don't arrest for shoplifting. They give them a citation and let them go.

 

[ksm]

Ksm,
They don't arrest for shoplifting. They give them a citation and let them go.

Don't they make them appear in court and pay fines? I know things are so frustrating, especially when they are far away. Ksm

 

[AddictionSucks123]

Hi Beta, it is agonizing to see your loved one deteriorate so quickly. If your son refuses to come home with you, what would you be willing to present to him? A long term in house drug rehab? Detox? A hotel room with a chance to shower and eat? Please think about what you are willing to do for him should you make the trip to AZ to go look for him.

AZ seems to have a care court system, AZCourtCare, but not certain of the specifics to place a person who doesn't want help to get treatment. I understand in California, starting next year, this type of assistance to families will also extend to substance use disorder. I don't know if this information is helpful, when and if you find your son, and I will keep you in my thoughts. I currently attend Smart Recovery or Craft Recovery meetings for families of loved ones in substance abuse and it has really helped, especially around building up my relationship with my son and understanding what I am willing to do and what I am not willing to do for him.

 

[Crayola14]

In my city they don’t get arrested unless the theft is over $500. If it’s $500 or less, it’s a misdemeanor and the shoplifter has to either pay a fine or return the merchandise. The store owner can push for both, but the law doesn’t require both.

 

[Cora]

I can't offer any advice. I've got a son who would "disappear" for months at a time. He once told me that if anyone
was looking for him that he could basically hide in plain sight and never be found. He would only be found if he wanted it.
I do hope you can work out a solution that is good for you and your husband.

 

[Beta]

Hi Beta, it is agonizing to see your loved one deteriorate so quickly. If your son refuses to come home with you, what would you be willing to present to him? A long term in house drug rehab? Detox? A hotel room with a chance to shower and eat? Please think about what you are willing to do for him should you make the trip to AZ to go look for him.

AZ seems to have a care court system, AZCourtCare, but not certain of the specifics to place a person who doesn't want help to get treatment. I understand in California, starting next year, this type of assistance to families will also extend to substance use disorder. I don't know if this information is helpful, when and if you find your son, and I will keep you in my thoughts. I currently attend Smart Recovery or Craft Recovery meetings for families of loved ones in substance abuse and it has really helped, especially around building up my relationship with my son and understanding what I am willing to do and what I am not willing to do for him.

Thank youAS123. I actually called AZCourtCare earlier this week and I was hoping we could do an Involuntary Evaluation, but they have to have a physical address of some kind to pick up the person, and you have to be there physically to turn in the application because it is notarized.

 

[Beta]

Hi Beta, it is agonizing to see your loved one deteriorate so quickly. If your son refuses to come home with you, what would you be willing to present to him? A long term in house drug rehab? Detox? A hotel room with a chance to shower and eat? Please think about what you are willing to do for him should you make the trip to AZ to go look for him.

AZ seems to have a care court system, AZCourtCare, but not certain of the specifics to place a person who doesn't want help to get treatment. I understand in California, starting next year, this type of assistance to families will also extend to substance use disorder. I don't know if this information is helpful, when and if you find your son, and I will keep you in my thoughts. I currently attend Smart Recovery or Craft Recovery meetings for families of loved ones in substance abuse and it has really helped, especially around building up my relationship with my son and understanding what I am willing to do and what I am not willing to do for him.

By the way, it looks like we probably won't go. Walking around the homeless areas seems to be a dangerous thing to do. I still wish we could go but I know it probably isn't the wisest thing to do.

 

[Copabanana]

"Well, maybe he's so messed up from the fentanyl and from living as a homeless person that he can't even cognitively function well enough to make that choice so maybe we need to make the effort to try to find him."

Hi Beta. I am sorry that I only saw your thread just now.

I think the decision is based more upon what you and your husband need for yourselves. I could see going there and being heartsick either because you don't find him or because he won't respond to your efforts, and is in bad shape. On the other hand, if you're heartsick at home, beating yourself up, and feeling helpless, then you may need to go, despite what happens.

Turning over every last stone. One way to look at it is, we've done everything. The other way to look at it is under every stone, there could be more heartache and emptiness, or worse. That is the nature of our situations.

The only real respite is that which we find in ourselves. Every way we look outside of ourselves can be a distorted funhouse mirror. Or a fantasy.

Your child is greatly loved. He knows that love.

Who can know what the right thing to do is? I have turned over every stone. At this point, I think it was enabling and self-delusion, more than love. More than likely I will still do the same, but I don't think it is from the best part of me. Others may. I don't. On second thought, who knows what I think? I am beyond thinking now.

People every day, find a way to turn the corner. I don't know if it's something inside of them, something intrinsic or Divine.

Eventually, our sons' survival will depend on what they do, what they think, and how they respond.
G-d bless you.

 

[ButCoffeeFirst]

Copabanana, reading your post was like autotype had scanned my brain.
I am so grateful for this site.
Happy New Year everyone!

 

[Nomad]

Happy New Year! When our child was in Kindergarten, a teacher told me to "run interference" for her. I, at the time, thought it good advice. Hmm. Maybe for some children. And maybe for the primary grades? I don't know. As our children get older, definitely NOT so much. I don't know the right answer. I don't know how to gently lead them without enabling them and without straining ourselves. The worst part is frequent helping doesn't seem to help and often actually harms. I think often it's the school of hard knocks that help some people see the light. Find the inner strength to do better. Today, we still do some "running of interference" but have mostly limited it to medical needs. These things are often very tough calls with perhaps no true right or wrong answer. (hugs)

 

[Copabanana]

Beta. What's new? I am thinking of you.