I'm going to jail!!!!

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Deni, Sep 23, 2008.

  1. Deni

    Deni New Member

    Okay, so difficult child is getting so out of hand! New counselor comes to the house and talks about everything and does the intake process and she leaves. Within 3 minutes of her departure, difficult child decides dinner is not ready fast enough and starts mouthing and yelling at me and my mother. After several attempts to get him to calm down, I told him to just go to his room and leave me alone. difficult child goes to his room...only AFTER hitting every wall and he threw the cable remote across the hall into the restroom. I went in there and yelled and he started telling me, "I hate you, I hope you die, you are gay, you are a lesbian." I just agreed. No point in arguing with these type of comments, right? He started kicking the dresser and knocking things off so he lost cable, tv and PS2. After a 45 min struggle and my son's repeated threat of slicing his throat, police were called. Of course they come out and do NOTHING!!!! They would not even take him to psychiatric hospital because difficult child told them he did not want to hurt himself.(He has this whole system wrapped around his little finger.) I was on my way to meet with the Judge when difficult child told officers he would go to hospital voluntarily. I took him but of course after 3.5 hours of sitting there, difficult child was calm, collected and SLEEPING! The doctor didn't see any reason to admit him....well what a genius! We go home.
    Thursday night, difficult child got upset bc his cousin changed the tv when he walked out of the room and they started to get into it when I stepped in between them to stop it. (Probably not smart on my part to get in between 2 14 yo boys but what else am I to do.) difficult child storms into his room slamming the door into the wall and putting a hole in the wall. I decided not to react to it bc I was extremely angry. When my mother came home, she was talking with my nephew about what had happened. difficult child is in his room screaming at my mother and banging on the walls. I went into his room, popped him on the arm and told him to quit hitting on the walls at which time he jumped in my face and swung hitting me in the arm. I pushed him to the bed not knowing what he was intending to do. He tried to come back up at me when I pushed him to the bed and was attempting to restrain him. He was able to manuever away from me and was trying to get out of his room. I was standing in the doorway and he put his head between my legs and began putting all his weight towards my bad ankle that I had surgery on in January and he just re-injured in July. difficult child started punching my legs and was trying to hit my mother whom was standing behind me. My mother walked out of the doorway and called the police so that difficult child would not know and the police could see him in action. They immediately come in, put him in cuffs and escort him out of my house.

    My first thought was finally, I will get some help or relief from the situation. I had to fill out a affidavit and they contacted the probation officer. PO called me and told me that he would be detained and would have hearing on Friday. (This is good for me, right?) Less than 10 minutes later, PO calls back and says that he cannot detain him bc the police only charged him with Class C Misd Assault....a ticket that I have to pay!!! And I have to come pick him up.
    When I arrived at the police dept, I am informed that if I restrain my child any further or spank him (There were NO bruises at all) like I did, I will be ARRESTED for assault!!!! (Are you kidding??? Now I can NOT even restrain my difficult child from assaulting me or destroying my house and if I discipline him, it is assault. What is this?)
    I am furious and more frustrated than I have ever been. This is a joke. I told them to go ahead and arrest me bc then I would be able to get away from difficult child!
    After difficult child went to bed that night, I left and drove around, found an empty parking lot, parked my car and cried myself to sleep. I was there for about 4 hours before I woke up and went home.
    The next day difficult child tells me that the Officer and PO warned him about me starting something with him!!! (Can it get worse??? YEP) The dispatchers gave difficult child their personal cell phone numbers to call if there is a problem and the Officers told difficult child he can start going to church and there is NOTHING I can do about it and they would come pick him up to take him. ((UH...last time I checked, I gave birth to this difficult child and there is something I can do about it.)) I told difficult child that he could go to church, our Church. Of course he don't want to do that bc he don't want to face the Pastor who knows what he has done. They were also trying to get difficult child to attend a church of a different religion and told difficult child that I don't have to like it, I just have to deal with! (Seriously???)

    Does anyone else see problems with the way the Police Dept and Dispatchers handled this situation? I can tell you that I am a 911 Operator/Dispatcher and this is crossing morale in regards to my job. I would be terminated or at the very least put on admin leave with-o pay for doing such an act.

    thanks for letting me vent,
  2. goldenguru

    goldenguru Active Member

    Wow Deni. It is a sad commentary on the 'system' when you can not protect person or property from an aggressive out of control teenager. Our laws are so skewed -

    If it were me I would learn some nonviolent/nonthreatening deescalation techniques to deal with your son. I think calling 911 is a great response.

    I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.
  3. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I'm sorry you are having to deal with all of this. I don't even try to restrain my difficult child anymore because it is darn near impossible now that he is getting older. When he is seriously raging (which thank goodness isn't happening a lot right now) I go and lock myself in a room unless husband is home because he can still safely restrain him.

    Your difficult child sounds out of control. Is there a way to tape him when he is in a rage or at least tape the aftermath, ie the holes in the walls. I would be tempted to start calling the police every time he starts to get violent (even punching holes) so they can get an idea of what you are dealing with.

    Many gentle hugs and prayers.
  4. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    Deni, I'm sorry things are so rough for you.

    I agree with Goldenguru about learning some nonviolent deescalation techniques. Unfortunately, your getting physical with him will only make him more physical with you. Carry your keys and cell phone in your pocket at all times. Leave the house if need be and call 911 anytime he shows violence toward self, others or property.

    Above all, I think your son needs psychiatric treatment. If he has a mood disorder, his medications could be making him more irritable, aggressive and violent. Both stimulants like Vyvanse and antidepressants like Prozac can make kids with mood disorders worse. Aggression and suididal and homicidal ideation are listed as side effects for both medications. Are you working with an adolescent psychiatrist who can work with you to help your son function better?

    Hang in there.
  5. timer lady

    timer lady Queen of Hearts


    When the twins were first placed with us & all heck was breaking loose we'd be threatened by everyone but God that we'd be arrested. kt & wm would call 911 & report husband & myself. The police would come & I'd be calm & ask the police to take the tweedles to the hospital or where ever they needed to be taken to be checked over physically.

    I would then hand the police my own version of a parent report (hadn't found the board yet) & ask them to read this & make sure the hospital got a copy. (It was already 3 inches thick & our psychiatrist & pediatrician doctor knew the background).

    I told the police the jail sounded a dream - respite. kt & wm always backed down. I'm not saying your difficult child, at 14, will do the same. The police have given him too much power & he's using it.

    You must find a happy medium here. As a parent, you cannot give into that power; difficult child must know that if you go to jail he's not going to live a happy life. He'll end up in foster care. Lots of therapy & in the meantime, you'll have a lawyer who's saavy enough to have difficult children parent report & present it to the judge.

    Hope today is a better day.
  6. Christy

    Christy New Member

    Sounds like difficult child painted a very different picture of events and has them all conned. I'm sorry you are facing this. I cannot imagine how difficult it must be :(

  7. nvts

    nvts Active Member

    Hi Deni! Well, you clearly are the classic example of how the system has failed someone! I picked up this link for you to try and find a parent advocate in Tx.


    There's also an association called "CASA" that seems pretty busy around Texas.

    I agree with a lot of the mom's that you're getting roped into engaging him once a rage sets in. Take a look or "relook" at The Defiant Child" by Ross Greene. You need to get to him before "vapor lock" sets in and you should have a lot more luck breaking it off before it starts.

    Basically, you have a real complaint here with your local police department. If you don't get them properly engaged, this kid'll be running the show while you're in the pokey (not that jail sound much louder than what you're dealing with! I tell my kids all the time, that I'd probably get more rest in jail!).

    Keep letting us know what's going on. In NY we have a program called "PINS" where parents in need of assistance engage the court system for at risk teens. Maybe Tx has something similar?

    Good luck!

  8. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Wow- unfortunately, I believe things like this happen more than we'd like to think. Our system is seriously broken. Our situation hasn't gotten quite to that point yet- but it easily could have and might still end up there.

    One thing you can do if you think there is something you'd like for the judge to do, is to request a hearing from the judge. You need to have a particular request in mind, but they can have a hearing where difficult child is not present- at least here. It's called an administrative hearing and the judge can change orders for the difficult child and over-ride the PO and the police. I'm trying to think how this could help you- if you want him removed from home right away, you would need to go through social services, since they already refused to hold him in juvy. However, the judge can revoke his probation for violating you and house rules.

    I'm thinking that you could discuss this with his therapist and/or psychiatrist (maybe without difficult child being in the room) and have them put in writing what they think he needs that the judge can order (mst services, Residential Treatment Center (RTC), a highly monitored level of probation, whatever), then request that hearing, get an attny, and present this to the judge. That should get you some help. But either way, I definietly think you need his psychiatrist and therapist on your side, quickly.
  9. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I have a very 'naughty' suggestion. Next time you are somewhere with him like ER or cop shop, set him off. You surely know him well enough to know what will trigger him off with a fairly innocent remark. In the ER, for example, he would have had to wake up for you to leave. So if you have something that you know will set him off, such as, "You do realise you are still grounded with no TV for a month," sort of thing, or something like, "Have you completed that 40 page assignment that is due first thing in the morning?" then deliver it. Whatever you do, be non-physical in your response. Do nothing physical to him in any way except to ward him off if he is physically attacking you. Absolutely nothing. I know this isn't easy. If it gets too impossible, leave the room. Shut yourself in another room (preferably one with a phone). This is so that next time the police "warn you" like they did (way over the top - I agree with you - but they were only going on what they believed, and they really have absolutely no idea, they have badly misread the situation) then you stand your ground and tell them firmly that you did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the child. You then ask them to give you, preferably in writing (because your 'tiny brain is too exhausted and traumatised from the experiences that led you to call for help') for practical recommendations for how to PROTECT YOURSELF from your son's physical attacks. Also ask them if their failure to give you any protection in this gives you the opportunity to sue them for your medical expenses for any subsequent injuries caused by your son, now feeling even more powerful with the extra ammunition they gave him to use against you.

    Another option, one which would have tempted me, would be to insist on staying at the police station until you get what you want in terms of being believed or at least some support. What's the worst they could do? Arrest you? besides, enough of this crud, in front of difficult child, should eventually set him off to shout at you, then they can see what you have to deal with.

    As I said, it's a naughty suggestion. I don't know the US situation well enough, so don't take my advice unless you are independently advised that it would be OK to do so.

    But we can dream, can't we?

  10. hexemaus2

    hexemaus2 Old hand

    OH Deni, I can so understand the spot you're in. I don't know if how I've dealt with similar issues here will help you or not, but I can at least tell you. Then you can decide if a similar option would work for your situation.

    In the last 2 years, there have been 22 calls to our local police department when difficult child 2 raged & I needed help to calm him and/or transport him to the ER. That record has served to help us now that difficult child 2 is so seriously out of control and flat out dangerous when he rages.

    Earlier this year, I called 911 for help. difficult child 2 had thrown the couch, dining room chairs, and even turned the dining room table over on difficult child 1. I called 911 when he had her pinned to the wall by the throat. (Actually, I called & handed the phone to difficult child 3 while I tried to pull difficult child 2 off of difficult child 1.) I'm sure you all can imagine what my house must have looked like.

    The couch overturned & in the middle of the living room floor. Dining room chairs scattered all over the dining room, hallway, and living room. The dining room table and everything on it strewn all over creation. Now, we also have 3 large long-haired dogs & hardwood floors. On normal days, I sweep daily (we have to in order to keep the dog hair under control.) However, I only move the furniture and sweep the dog hair under it once a week. Of course, this particular rage happened on a Friday (cleaning day is Saturday) so when difficult child 2 tossed the couch, a ton of dog hair came rolling out. By the time the police arrived, the ceiling fans had tossed the hair everywhere.

    Now, here I am, as the police walk in, trying to pull difficult child 2 off of difficult child 1 in the hallway. The officers had to step in to help me get him off of her. The whole time, he's screaming he's going to kill us all. So, the officers could see I had my hands full with him. There was immediate threat to everyone's safety. But what are the police worried about? The condition of my house.

    Um. Duh. Sorry officer, I didn't have a chance to tidy up the mess my raging son made. I was a little busy trying to keep him from strangling my daughter. Remember when you came in? We were in the hallway? He had his hands around her throat, screaming he was going to kill us all? Remember that? It was just 3 minutes ago...and you just had to help pull him off of her.

    Didn't matter. The officer started reading me the riot act about what DFCS would say if they saw the condition of my house. I couldn't help it, I went off!! I said look buddy, if you're that concerned about the condition of my house, then by all means call DFCS. Maybe they'll be able to get me the ambulance I asked for when I originally called 911. Maybe they can help me get my son transported to the ER for admission to the child psychiatric ward. In the meantime though, I have bigger issues to address than some dog hair on my floor and righting furniture that my son just tossed all over the house.

    Long story short. They never called for the ambulance. I had to do that myself. And while I'm sitting inside dealing with Officer Moron of The Year, the EMTs arrived. The other officers sat outside talking to the EMTs while I was inside dealing with the idiot officer. By the time I came outside with difficult child 2 to talk to the EMTs, they flat out refused to transport him. The EMTs said they couldn't transport him without an officer & since the officers weren't charging difficult child or placing him under arrest, they refused to escort him.


    So, I had to transport him myself, with the other difficult children in tow - one of whom he had just tried to strangle. (The officers told me I couldn't leave the other kids home alone, even though they were 16 and 13.) How's that for safety?? Dumb. Just dumb. But the stupidity didn't end there!! No.

    While I'm trying to load the kids into my Jeep, trying to reassure difficult child 1 that difficult child 2 wouldn't touch her again & we'd go get help ourselves, Officer Moron comes over and shoves his cell phone at me. He has DFCS on the phone. They want to talk to me. I said "you're kidding me, right? I'm trying to get my son to the ER and get him admitted before he kills someone, you people have refused to help, and now you want me to stop what I'm doing to talk to some woman from DFCS??!!?? Are you nuts?" He just shoved the phone at me and muttered some threat about arresting me.

    I took the phone, said hello, and explained that whatever they wanted, it needed to be quick. I had a son to transport to the ER and was getting NO help from our lovely Department of Public Safety. The lady explained who she was, why she wanted to talk to me, blah, blah, blah. And could she come meet us in the morning. That was it! The last straw for me that night. I went off like a rocket.

    No, I cannot meet you tomorrow morning. I will be at the ER all night trying to get difficult child 2 admitted. The last 4 times we've done this, it's been an all-night ordeal. I didn't expect to be home before 7am & when I did get home, I would be at our police department lodging a formal complaint with the Chief & making phone calls to our attorney for further action against the ambulance service because the way I see it? Both the police and the EMTs have just endangered my life and the lives of my children by forcing me to transport a raging, dangerous special needs child on my own because they're more worried about the furniture being out of place and dog hair being on my floor. Now, unless you plan on getting your :censored2: out of bed and coming to help me with this child since no one else will, then I suggest you contact my attorneys at (office number, address, and name) to set up a time for us ALL to sit down and have a chat about what has or has not been done this evening.

    I tossed the phone back at the officer and asked him to kindly move his vehicle out of my driveway so I could get my child to the ER.

    I was so p'd off it wasn't even funny. I was ready to have everyone's head on a platter & just about dare anyone (including the woman from DFCS) say a darn thing about it to me. I was on the side of the angels on this one, and I knew it.

    We did get difficult child 2 admitted that night. (And also found out from the folks at the ER that the police and EMTs absolutely CANNOT, under Georgia State law, just refuse to transport difficult child 2. Even if that means they have to put 3 or 4 officers in the ambulance and handcuff difficult child to a gurney - they HAVE to transport him somehow. They cannot simply refuse to help.) I did go the next morning and file complaints on the officers involved as well as the EMTs.

    I raised nine kinds of holy he// with everyone I could find who would listen. I called DFCS. I called Juvenile Court. I called the Chief of Police. I called the ambulance service. I called our county's Sheriff's office. I called our psychiatrist and pediatrician. I called our attorney. I called everyone I could think of. I was able to get through to the juvenile court judge and get some ideas of what/how to do whatever I needed to do. I refused to deal with DFCS without a lawyer present at all times. I yelled. I screamed. I begged. I pleaded. And for all my effort, got nowhere. But I had names, phone numbers, dates & times, and any other information all written down for who I had talked to, when, why, and for what. I created a bigger, more detailed paper trail than I ever have in my life. It didn't help then, but it has served to help since.

    Since then, there have been 4 more calls to the local police department to come help me with difficult child 2 & his out of control rages. There have been 3 more hospitalizations since then. The police have called out DFCS two more times since then. More phone calls, more in-office visits to people who don't return phone calls, and everything documented. I have been threatened with abandonment charges when I refused to take difficult child 2 home from the hospital. There have been numerous calls to the juvenile court judge's office. I swear, I don't think I've stopped kicking and screaming since that night with the dog hair issue. All of it documented with times, dates, names, phone numbers, etc.

    I was beginning to think that the only way we would be safe was if I wound up in jail & the kids all wound up in foster care. No one was listening. No one was helping. But they sure were threatening me with DFCS and jail!

    But finally, I was able to get to the Captain of our police department. I pulled out my journal with all these dates, times, names, etc. Dispatch was able to pull up all 22 reports from the last two years. I laid out discharge summaries showing 9 trips to the ER and 7 admissions from the last 19 months for difficult child 2. The evidence of what was going on was so overwhelming that there was no way any charge against me would ever stick, except to charge me with failure to protect the other two difficult children from difficult child 2. And I had plenty of evidence that I was doing everything possible to get help to protect us all from difficult child 2, but only hitting brick walls. Finally, someone started to see the same picture I've been seeing for years - the system is broken and difficult child 2 & the rest of our family are falling through the cracks. All I'm getting is threats - but no help.

    The Captain made some phone calls, sent some pretty bulky faxes (I think he faxed something like 20 or 30-some pages just to the folks at juvenile court!!) He took the approach that "Hey! Someone needs to wake up because this child & his history are a blazing liablity law suit waiting to happen!!" Amazing what progress he was able to help us make in just a few short hours. Suddenly, we had the judge's ear & a court date for 3 days later. Suddenly, we had someone in charge at the police department helping to ensure that the threats against me stopped & that any officer responding to a 911 call from us understood department policy in that regard. Man, I can't tell you how much just having that one person working to help us did.

    In short, the first thing I can tell you is document, document, document. Write down every phone call, who you talked to, what you talked about, the date, the time you called, the time the call ended, etc. Every stinking detail you can. Call the police every single time he gets violent - whether it's towards you or towards objects. If he so much as threatens to get violent, call the police. Get copies of those reports for your records, if at all possible. (Since they will be juvenile records, the police may be reluctant to give you copies - check local law to see what your rights are in terms of copies.) Keep all discharge summaries when he goes to the ER - even if they don't admit him. Write notes in the margins or in a journal, with doctors & nurses names, the reasons they state they won't admit him, etc. You really, really need a paper trail for everything going on. (And don't forget to include notes on his actual rages, notes on his daily moods/behaviors, etc. as those will also help at the ER.)

    The second thing I can tell you is that you'll have to get ugly with the ER staff in order to get him admitted. Just because he's not in mid-rage when they see him does NOT mean there isn't a problem. Be clear and direct with these folks & tell them that you fear for your safety AND his. If they say they aren't going to admit him, demand to speak with whoever is in charge of the psychiatric department. Dig your heels in if you have to. More than once I point blank told the ER staff that I would NOT take difficult child 2 home - even if that meant I walked out of the hospital and left him there. (That was the first time the hospital staff threatened to have me charged with abandonment.) Heck, I've even called our family attorney from the ER at 11 at night, with a psychiatrist right in front of me & asked him what my rights were in terms of getting difficult child 2 admitted & if the hospital refused admission did that make them liable if something happened, etc.

    I have and keep updated a parent report like Linda mentioned. I've sent copies to my parents, our family attorney, & all difficult child 2's doctors have copies. There are many reasons why, but for the most part it's to document everything for my own legal protection AND to document difficult child 2's responses to various treatments, to prove what we have/have not done to meet requirements for Residential Treatment Center (RTC) admissions, etc.

    Let me tell you, when you sit in front of a judge with 22 police reports, 9 discharge summaries, and can quote verbatum every phone call & office visit with everyone who has knowledge of your difficult child (complete with dates and times) for the last two years, it's kind of hard not to be overwhelmed by the obvious. At least that has been our experience.

    Now that I've rambled on and on, just understand two things - document EVERYTHING, and don't be afraid to fight back with all you have and dig your heels in when you know it's the right thing to do for your difficult child. Most of the time, we are our children's only advocate. That's why we're Warrior Moms. :)

    And in the meantime, know that we're all here for you. Know that we're sending out all the strength of difficult child's board aunties to help carry you through. We all know how hard this life is & how important it is to have supportive, understanding people around who know what you're going through. We're here. We care - even when it feels like the rest of the world doesn't.
  11. DenitaS

    DenitaS New Member

    Don't you LOVE how they ALWAYS blame you!!! Don't they realize that we do EVERYTHING within our power to keep some sort of peace in our homes!!!
    Just know that my thoughts are with you!!!! I hope that you have a MUCH better day TODAY!!!
  12. hexemaus2

    hexemaus2 Old hand

    Yeah, I'm by no means above doing what Marg suggested. been there done that. I have deliberately set difficult child 2 off in front of police, doctors, nurses, you name it - out of desperation for someone, anyone to see what I'm dealing with at home & get us some help!! Unfortunately, it doesn't always work. I tried to set him off during his last psychiatric hospital admission so the docs could see what I have been talking about. difficult child 2 didn't bite. In fact, it almost back-fired on me as I had to take him home that afternoon & he darn near had a meltdown in the car. I told him I was going to turn around and take him back & he calmed himself down, but it was scary for a few minutes there. I was alone in the car with him, on a long stretch of deserted highway. It could have been ugly. So, if you do decide to push his buttons and try to trigger him, just be careful. You know your child best, so be sure to only deliberately trigger him when you know you're both in a safe enough environment to do it without anyone getting hurt. (If I had known difficult child 2 would 'save' his meltdown for later? I would have tried to trigger him the day before so he had plenty of time in-patient to get over it.)

    I've so been (and still am) where you are. In fact, one of the things I told the Captain when we met was that my only options at that point were to get pepper spray or a tazer for my other kids to protect themselves. We weren't getting any help and I had no doubt in my mind that difficult child 2 killing someone was no longer an "if" but a "when." What else was I supposed to do? We had to protect ourselves somehow (my difficult child 2 is 5'7" and 200lbs, so restraining him isn't even an option anymore) & the police/juvenile system sure weren't helping, but then I'd be looking at abuse charges for difficult child 2 getting pepper sprayed or tazed. But what else are you supposed to do when your difficult child is literally trying to kill one of your children - when it becomes life or death & the police won't arrest him, the hospitals won't admit him, what else am I supposed to do? Just let him kill his sibling or me? Then what? Thankfully, the Captain looked at everything in front of him and realized that I was truly in a desperate, life or death situation. Someone needed to do something to help me protect my family. (Lord knows, I sure didn't want to have to resort to hurting one of my kids to protect the others. I want help for my difficult child, dang it!)

    But honestly? What does the system think we're supposed to do? We can't protect ourselves without going to jail. We can't NOT protect ourselves without going to jail. I mean, come on now. Somebody's GOT to have a little common sense somewhere! Like I explained to the Captain, if I came to him with the same situation with a person who wasn't my child, the police would be all over it & having that person arrested so I could be safe. Why is it that just because the person trying to hurt us is my child that everyone thinks they can just do nothing & it's just a family problem?!?

    That's where documenting everything helps. That, and keep calling people, keep asking for help. All you need is ONE person in a position to help. Sometimes it just takes beating on alot of doors to find that one person who can help to get the ball rolling. (That, and I had to learn NOT to sugar coat anything with anyone. If anything, I had to put the opposite spin on things to really get the point acrossed how dangerous our situation really was/is.)

    And PLEASE, don't anyone get me wrong with the things I've said in this post. I surely don't advocate getting pepper spray or a tazer to protect yourself from your child. In our situation, I used the suggestion merely as a way to make myself clear to the Captain just how few alternatives I was being left with. I certainly wouldn't want anyone to think I was advocating doing anything to hurt your child.
  13. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    I sympathize with what you are going through. I do think that you should call the police regularly, and that you should consider secretly installing video equipment in your house. Nanny cams, if you will.

    I know how difficult it is, because it was difficult for me, but I think you should do your best to let him throw his temper tantrums and ignore him. I think he is counting on ramping you up enough that it becomes physical and then pointing the finger at you. Our kids don't see it the way the rest of the world does. If you yell at them, in their mind that is call for violent action, either against you or their property. You are supposed to tolerate their verbal abuse because they're right and you're wrong.

    Next time you are tempted to walk down the hall and yell at him, walk out the door and do some gardening or visit a neighbor instead. He will be utterly confused. If he has the cajones to follow you outside, you will have witnesses that you were just standing there and he went off on you for nothing. If he doesn't come after you, but asks what is going on, just tell him that you are so sick and tired of his selfish stupid garbage that you just plain don't give a rats patoot anymore, and you're not going to engage with him in it. You've moved on, now he should too.

    I know he is pushing every button, and that he knows every button intimately. Reacting is giving him power. You have to take that power away, and you absolutely can do that by making the one weapon he has - his temper - useless.

    Good luck to you and your family. No one should have to live like you are. I know that the system is not supporting you and that's not right. You have to take the power back, or next time you can tell them that they can keep him. "Yes sir, you are so right, I'm not capable of controlling him. I couldn't possibly take him home under these circumstances. Perhaps you could refer me to some parenting classes and him to therapy while he's in foster care." I tell you right now. No foster parent is going to put up with that type of garbage. And he will definitely not have cable or a PS2. Personally, I'd sell everything in his room other than his bed and dresser. He doesn't deserve anything more than that.
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2008
  14. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    PS - Fran probably has some good ideas on how to get help in Texas. She was there for an awful long time and I'm sure she still knows the ins and outs.
  15. Andy

    Andy Active Member

    I am so sorry! After reading, I got to thinking - do you think difficult child was truthful about the dispatcher, police and the church? He is still a minor and I think if there was anything to that one, the police would tell you right out to allow it. How did he get in touch with the dispatcher? If someone in that postition is involved with him going against your wishes in regards to leaving your house and going to a church, that person needs to be investigated. Neither the police or dispatcher should be giving out their private numbers - you get hold of them through their work numbers. Please look into this one - ask the dispatcher and police officer. If you think it is real, talk to their supervisors.

    I think difficult child is holding his cards with a false deck. He doesn't hold the winning hands so to speak but as long as he can make you believe he does it will get him what he wants. I would be hesitant to totally believe everything he is telling you. It may be he is telling the truth however, he may be leaving details out to change the truth to his advantage.

    The others have given great suggestions. I hope some will work for you.
  16. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    After so many years of dealing with so many kids and so many parts of "the system" I would be temped to type up the specifics that you were
    told (noting by whom) and the specifics that difficult child has shared (and again
    who the party or parties were who verbalized those feelings).

    Then..........I would write a letter to all of the people and sincerely state
    that you seem to be confused by the suggestions given to you and your child and would like to verify the information. I'd add a sentence similar to "knowing that teenagers can easily misunderstand" and that parents also
    can misunderstand when under stress could you advise?

    1. My son is encouraged by law enforcement to attend a church different than the church his family has known for x years? Further, transportation to and from the new church will be provided by government officials?

    2. My son is not to be interfered with when he is having a rage, trying to
    harm others in the household and/or breaking objects? Further, if I try as his Mother to curb these destructive behaviors in a non-violent way than
    I am threatened with arrest?

    3. We seemed to miss the specific suggestions for establishing parental control and providing structure to an unruly teen. Am I to call for backup
    each time it appears that X is going to escalate his dangerous behavior?

    Would you be so kind to repond in writing to my inquiry?

    Yep...........that's how I would likely face this problem.

    Am I suggesting that it is the best choice. Heck no. The "good ole boys"
    would not like being questioned.

    Sending hugs to you. It's a shame to live that way. DDD
  17. recovering doormat

    recovering doormat Lapsed CDer

    Sad to say, but in my experience up here in Connecticut, sometimes the only way to deal with blockhead bureaucrats and braindead authorities is to threaten a lawsuit. Get the cops names and tell them that if you or your minor children are harmed because the refuse to take a volatile, physically aggressive male out of the home, you will sue them and anybody they've had lunch with.

    It should not be this way, but I've found with DCF (our CPS) you are often held responsible for what your kids do, but not given any rights or tools to deal with it.

    I would also recommend letting him tantrum, and if he poses a physical threat get yourself and kids away. Document the damage (pix and video is best). In Conn. we have juvenile probation where parents can voluntarily apply to the courts for a juvenile P.O. for kids who are out ofcontrol, and if they violate the rules they get hauled before a judge. I'd be surprised if they didn't have something similar in TX.

    At least your concerns are documented, and at a certain point your child will be remanded to juvenile hall or a hospital.
  18. bran155

    bran155 Guest

    Wow, I am floored!!! First off, I am so, so sorry you are going through this. It broke my heart to hear that you fell asleep in your car crying. You poor thing.

    I have heard of such horror stories before. It makes no sense whatsoever. I can only imagine your frustration. THE SYSTEM STINKS!!! He can hit and abuse you and get away with it, but when you go to protect yourself as well as him, you get in trouble. Sounds backwards to me. I guess I am very lucky. Here in my city the cops have been very good to us, they have been nothing short of kind to me and my difficult child. They have come to my house on several occasions, walked in and saw my difficult child on the floor with my husband restraining her. I was very afraid to call the police for the first time for fear of what you have gone through. I have never had a problem. Knock on wood!!

    If I were you, I would make a formal complaint, make an appointment with the commissioner and write a letter to your congressman. Call the newspaper for petes sake. Do you have documentation to show that your son has a mental illness?

    I dont know what else to say, I am so angry for you - I could spit!!!!!!!! These kids today have all the rights, yet we get all the blame.

    I am so sorry hun. Hang in there. :)
  19. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    I like DDD's advice on the letter. You may not know who the dispatcher or responding officer is, but you could write the letter to the dispatch supervisor and either the chief of police if you are in a small town, or the local lieutenant if you are in a larger city with precincts. Like Adrianne said, it seems like your son may be embellishing what they have said. I'd put them on the spot and send the letter by registered mail demanding a written response.
  20. Deni

    Deni New Member

    First of all, I would like to thank each and everyone of you for suggestions, support and ideas. I am still as thankful today as I was the day I found this board for these very reasons.

    I wanted to add and update what is going on.
    My son really did get personal cell phone numbers of 2 dispatchers and 1 officer. I now have possession of the business cards that were given and these numbers are wrote by the dispatchers and Officer themselves. This was not made up.

    I had a meeting with the Dispatcher Supervisor and the Chief of Police. The Supervisor ask, "Well how do you know the dispatchers gave their personal cell numbers?" (Evil grin as I pull the cards out of my purse.) My response, "Well, X's number is xxx-xxx-xxxx and X's is xxx-xxx-xxxx." All she could say to that was, "I'm not sure why they would do that." Well me neither, thats why I was there. I did inform her of my position and that I would press charges on anyone that came to pick up my child and transport him anywhere without my permission. Afterall, this is MY difficult child and I brought him into this world!!
    by the way, he had contact with the dispatchers when he was arrested. I live in a pretty small city and when they took him in, the Officer took him in the dispatch office for the ladies to keep an eye on while he gathered paperwork or whatever he has to do. I have witnessed this being done in the past. The day that one of MY officers brings a juvenile of the like into the dispatch office where I am working is the day I put in my notice to quit and I contact media or something. This just isn't right!

    My meeting with the Chief...well, still not clear on what to think. His question to me was, "Why haven't you been before a judge to have your son committed?" Uh...I can do this??? Committed where? He tells me a psychiatric hospital. Uhhhh...I am sorry Sir but my child has been in every psychiatric hospital in the area, do you know something I don't? I informed him, my difficult child knows how to work the system, they keep him 3-5 days and he is released. He told me that he was going to talk to the JP and see if there was anything that could be done at this point. Ok...sounding good till his next line. "I also understand you want to file formal complaints on my Dispatchers and Officers, go ahead but they are doing what they can to HELP you." WHAT???? Then he handed me the complaint forms. Is he serious? He really don't care. My thought is when they are filled out, he will put them in the trash but I am going to fill them out, have them notarized, make copies and take them back to the PD and get the name of the person I hand them to. This meeting took place yesterday (Tuesday).
    I also spoke to the Chief about the threats made to me. He did tell me that I am walking a very fine line and that I could be arrested but didn't see how I would be convicted given the history that he was looking at with the calls to my house...just since June. He stated he wasn't sure why his Officers would tell me that. Again, me neither, that is why I was there. It's funny how they never have the answers, huh?

    I do have his hospital records from when he was admitted and will keep these handy. I have started documenting MORE about who I am talking to. I have also instructed my mother she is not to pay a dime to this city IF they arrest me. I will go to court and I will have all my ducks in row and have doctors, school personnel and Pastor come to back everything I have tried to do for this difficult child and what he has and is capable of doing. I have notified my job of what I was told since me being arrested could cost me my job. I also talk to my Supervisor and told her that I would not allow him to hurt me or my house and that if I was fired due to an arrest for such, I would fight the City all the way and it would be all over. She has since then went to my Chief and he said "As long as she is out in time for work." (I don't know if this was said in joking manner or not.)

    Many have suggested me walking away. I have tried this and when I do, he hits the walls harder and has actually busted walls. Walking away doesn't do much good.

    Also, I have tried to intentionally set him off at the hospitals and such. difficult child does have control over this because he can and will hold it together no matter what I say to him while in front of others and most of the time for the rest of the day. However, by the following day, it is WAR in my house.

    When difficult child came home on Sunday, I did have a talk with him and told him he has 2 months. If difficult child can't keep it together for the next 2 months or until I can get him placed, I told him I would sign over all my rights. And the chances of DEX taking him are slim to none which leaves him in foster care or whereever and he could then realize how good he really has it. I am seriously considering giving up. I stay depressed and sad all the time and I getting very tired of feeling like I don't want to go on living. difficult child is leaving me no other option if he continues this behavior.