It gets worse.

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by MidwestMom, Apr 19, 2013.

  1. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    So son woke me up this morning with a phone call and during the talk, in which I thought he was going to be civil, he told me that I can never, never, never, never even insinuate that it's ok if he doesn't get the same custody that he has now. I'm not allowed to say ANYTHING that is not 100% on his side. I don't even know what that means, but he was talking about it like a warning. This (him talking) is such a serious issue that I have to be 100% in his corner or not there at all.

    I have to admit, it's effective. He knows that because he knows what Scott did. But you know what? Half the time I don't even know what he considers 100% in his corner. I have spent hours on the internet studying Missouri custody law. I have talked to him five times or more a day when he was at his worse, ignoring my hub and other kids for him because I know how much he loves J. (and needs him...maybe it's not even good that he feels J. is his life). I don't dare say that though. I have even (laugh now) gone on for him to answer ads so he can find a girlfriend. I'm quite good at it. He probably gets a lot more responses than most guys! I am, after all, a writer. I kind of enjoy doing it, but you know what? I have given him more than all the other kids combined, which is often how it gets with difficult children, doesn't it? We go to ridiculous lengths to try to make them ok. And then t hey threten us and berate us. Of course, if I held the pursestrings, rather than dad, he would never say anything negative to me because he depends on dad's money for this lawsuit. So as heartbroken as I am, I have had it. I shouldn't be afraid that my own child will cut me off because I say something that I can't even guess is against what he wants to hear. I am in tears this morning. But I can't let it get to me this way. j

    Funny. There is no narc-anon or Al-anon for a difficult child who treats you like crapola but it's not because of drug use. I wish t here were. I would like to go to a group called "A****hole grown kids Anonymous. I'd like to brainstorm with others who have kids who are not substance abusing but are just A****holes.

    I don't think there is anything left to do except not to be there anymore. I have never cut off a kid, and won't do it now, but I just can't be there for him. And you know what? Because his issues are somewhat similar to drinking difficult children (and perhaps he DOES drink too much) I'm going to find an Al-Anon meeting because I think the parents there will have as many similar issues to me as anyone else. I can tell the parents the truth and just sit and listen rather than talk a lot...they will probably believe MY problems aren't serious because at least he's not an alcoholic (at least I don't think he is. He DOES drink every day). My guess he is a functioning alcoholic because he does work and do what needs to be done and does not wake up in some stranger's bathroom or on a park bench. And he doesn't SOUND drunk, whatever that means. At any rate, I can't do this alone in real time anymore and my therapist is just not enough. I need other parents, aside from all you great folks...I need face-to-face support.

    I am close to falling apart. I'm going to look up Al-Anon groups and hope there is one today. Does drinking every day make one an alcoholic? If so, I'll feel more at home in the group. but I'm serious. He drinks every day. Plus he takes Xanax for his nerves. Now neither is why he is an A****hole. He was always one. But it can't help. He needs a different type of medication. And he won't take it because an SSRI, say, affects his sex life...blahhhhhhhhhhhh. I like Al-Anon idea. I"m going to look right now. Thanks, friends. Love you all.

  2. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    Wish I had some good advice for you...keeping you in my thoughts. Hugs.
  3. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    MWM, I am quite interested to learn that he drinks daily and takes xanax. I have been wondering because based on things you have said it really seemed to me that he was either an alcoholic who was drinking or he was a dry drunk. It is ENTIRELY possible to not drink ever and still behave like an alcoholic. I am guessing that someone on your or his father's side of the family or both, was an alcoholic. Adult Children of Alcoholics have certain behavior patterns that are every bit as identifiable as those of an alcoholic and there are books about this. There are even books for adult GRANDCHILDREN of alcoholics. If you find the criteria for these, you will be amazed at how well they define certain people that you know.

    Given the way he is behaving, I would say that SportsFan most certainly IS an alcoholic. All his going on about how J is his life(but he cannot give up something to find money for a lawyer or a therapist for him or J) and about how you cannot say this or that or he won't talk to you ever again, all the calls and tirades etc..... are SOOOOOOOOO much the actions of an alcoholic.

    You will NOT be out of place at an alanon meeting. I am glad you intend to go because they WILL understand and will NOT think you have less problems or reasons to be there. I think you will be amazed at the acceptance and at the realization that SF is an alcoholic. I thought he was before, and wasn't sure how to say it or ask if he drank or even if I should say anything about it.

    If the alanon meeting doesn't feel like the right fit for you, PLEASE do not give up. Generally it is best to go to several different meetings before choosing one. Each meeting has a different dynamic based on the people who are there. Even meetings at the same place but on different days and/or at different times are very different. I really like the meetings at one church during lunch, but the evening meetings there feel so awkward and critical that I know they are NOT the right fit for me. Usually it is recommended that you aim for 7 in 7 which means seven meetings in seven days.

    Remember that SF is not a toddler and you have zero obligation to only say what he wants to hear. His rules for what you can say to him are highly inappropriate and disrespectful. Even if you were not his mother they would be disrespectful. You are not his child and he has zero right to chastise you for saying what he does not want to hear. He may need a period of you refusing to talk to him or listen to him to make that clear. You have every right to expect him to speak to you respectfully and to refuse to speak to him or listen to him unless and utnil he is respectful and appropriate. In fact, it is actually being a good mom to tell him that you won't tolerate this nonsense about what you can and cannot say to him. MO, of coursee. And i do get how hard it can be when they are so emotionally volatile and abusive. (I am pretty sure that you told me similar things about gfgbro, along with Daisy, Star, HD and others.)
  4. Tiredof33

    Tiredof33 Active Member

    I don't think anyone is going to point blank ask you if difficult child is an alcoholic, at least not in any I have attended. The definition of an alcoholic really just states if alcohol is causing problems in your life - not really how much of it you drink. Many people sit and listen in meetings. Anything that helps you find peace - do it (if it's legal lol).

    Work on your detachment and take care of you.
    (((huggs and blessings)))
  5. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Maybe he is now fearful that you will be called to be a witness. Sigh. DDD
  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I think I'll do it. This young man, who is more like a child, also takes Xanax. Yes, it's prescribed, but you're not supposed to drink at all with Xanax.

    He's so strange. He just called me and acted as if his threats had never happened. He didn't notice that I barely said anything to him. Oh, well. Time for me to get support.
  7. in a daze

    in a daze Well-Known Member

    Hi MWM, you might want to see if there are any Families Anonymous groups near you. While many of the people in my FA group have family members who abuse various substances, some like mine have dual diagnosis and there are some who are just plain mentally ill. I hope you can find a support group that you feel comfortable with. Sometimes you have to visit different ones to get a feel for them.
  8. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    Hi I don't normally post here so sorry if I step on any toes.

    You've already commented on a problem with his threats; you don't know what he considers supportive. Eventually you will say something to tick him off. Then he will explode and because he "warned" you not to say what he didn't want you to then in his mind you deserve his abuse.

    He is not going to cut you off. He is to emotionally needy. You've said that he hardly spoke to you before this. I'm guessing that it is his need that drove him to call you in the first place. I'm also guessing that there is no one else to fill his emotional needs. So, until he finds someone else or isn't going through a rough time he isn't going to cut you off.

    I'd call his bluff. Tell him to be nice to you or no more contact until he can be nice. He has no one else to turn to. This might be a learning experience that mom is not an emotional/verbal punching bag.

    This is just my 2 cents, and I haven't been a parent to a 35 yr old. So it might not be worth much. Good luck.
  9. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    MWM I realize you have issues after having the other son do what he did, but this is not the same situation. This is a child literally svcking the life out of you to make himself feel better without any concern about the toll it is taking on you.

    One threat like that from one of mine?? Uh, no. Mom would be done. I don't play those games. And yes, I've dealt with losing's horrible, but then again so is having one make your life a living hell on earth. Done doesn't have to be permanent. Done can simply be until they get their head out of their rear and realize that it's not all about them. (and after a genuine apology)

    I hate to say this but with his current behavior I truly don't think it is very emotionally/mentally healthy for grandson to be spending much time with him. Having a parent so severely needy is going to have some long lasting detrimental affects on the child if difficult child can't get his act together. If he's behaving this way with you, I hate to imagine what is being said to your grandson.

    Sadly the more you yield to his behavior, the worse it is going to get. It's like with any other difficult child behavior.

    Getting some support for yourself is a good idea. Distancing yourself from difficult child is a better idea.

  10. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I was going to recommend FA too. But also MO law on child custody sent through the mail without a return address might be interesting.

    Now all that said, I dont think he would cut you off either. Who else is he going to vent to? He has no one else. Oh he might go a week or two but not long.

    I still dont see what he is so wired about. how much time does he get now? He does have to realize that as his son ages things will change. Things will never be...3.5 days at each house. If he gets his son every weekend and one week night during the week, that is a lot. That would probably be pick him up at 6 pm Friday night and return him at 6 pm Sunday night. Thats two whole days plus a week night. If the courts are nice and since they live in the same school district, perhaps they could arrange that the child spend the night on Wednesday night so he can go to bed early and son take grandson to school on Thursday morning...I dont know. That would give him 3 days a week with son. Thats more than most people fact its more than most parents spend with their kids if they are married!!!
  11. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Actually, around here it almost DOES work out to 3.5 days per week with each parent. The court here only does shared parenting with both parents having equal legal and physical custody of the child. They spend what ends up as 4 days one week with mom and 3 with dad then the other way around. Only it is broken up so they don't really ahve four days in any one place. I think it is HIDEOUS. Niece has clothes at each parents' home and at my parents, my parents have her at least one night a week (cause it is just too hard to be a single parent to one child for two or three whole days before and after school, of course it is *eyeroll inserted here*), and while she always knows where seh is spendign the next night, she has to lug a lot of stuff back and forth.

    Most of the kids do really well with it. School sends home two sets of everything so that both parents get notices and parent problems don't happen twice at school. The cops have a chat and it really hurts if the cops yank the parents in front of the judge because they cause a ruckus at school. And that does happen ehre.

    Many surrounding counties/cities here do the same custody thing. Often it is a given that custody will be fifty fifty unless one parent is just totally crazy or abuse is alleged.
  12. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Thank you all. I wish, wish, wish we had an FA out here! Or a Codependents Anonymous anywhere close. Small town area and all we have are the normal AA NA and Al Anons. But we have quite a few of those and I'm going to go! As for Mr. 35, he called last evening and night and I just didn't answer. Hound Dog, you are right. If he goes, he goes. It would bother him more than me in the end, since he barely called me for a ten year period anyway. For me, it would secretly be a relief after the initial shock of not getting 10 phonecalls a day. He doesn't add much to the family...nobody even wants to deal with him but me. It would be him punishing himself, really. He doesn't have friends and doesn't make them easily and, of course, if he perchance did find one, he couldn't treat the friend like he treats me or he'd be back to square one. He has burned all his bridges in the family.

    I spoke to Julie last night and she told me that when she used to babysit for J. (she did this to make a few bucks w hen she was going to school), 35 would come home and drink and drink (beer). He has graduated to more. She said, and she should know, "Hell, yes!" when I asked her if she thought he could be a functional alcoholic.

    He has many traits of antisocial personality disorder,a lthough I have no doubt he loves his son. But he lacks empathy and has done some abusive things to Julie when she was younger that I didn't know about until she told me and I 100% believe her. They were pretty awful. He says he has no memory of his earlier years. Maybe not. He is mentally ill too. But he isn't getting any help and I can't make him. All in all, he still wants me to be Mommy...the Mommy he didn't listen to when he was six and still won't listen to. And he will still throw a tantrum if Mommy gets him angry, even if it's not on purpose (it is always not on purpose). I can't help him. He won't help himself. The drinking and Xanax combo doesn't help him either. Listening to him being abusive is enabling him. I get scared when he threatens to kill himself, but how can I stop that, even though it chills me to the bone? I can't. Al-Anon, here I come.

    Time to take care of me :)
  13. MWM - Your SportsFan sounds like an older version of what my difficult child could become. Sigh. I am so sorry he is being so abusive towards you. The others in your family have tired of his abuse and refuse to have anything to do with him but you do not want to give up on your son. I totally get that.

    I don't think your difficult child really knows what he wants. He wants advice but doesn't take it, he wants support but not solutions or ideas on compromise, he wants you to fix everything but won't take 'the fix' and make use of it when you get it for him - whether it be a date or legal information.

    Even though he is 35 he is very immature and so self centered. He may very well be an alcoholic from the information you have given and what your daughter has said. I do hope you get to the Al-Anon meetings and I hope that the group there is a good fit for you and gives you the support and respite that you need. We found a great parent support group near us and it has really helped a lot to have that 'face-to-face' support that you talk about in addition to the amazing support that is offered here.

    Hugs to you. For your sake and for his please don't let him do this to you even more. You don't have to cut him off - but when he calls and he is abusive just tell him you can't listen to this, it's not healthy for you and you have to go. Hopefully, eventually, he will get the hint that his behaviour doesn't get him what he wants.

  14. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Make that you're new mantra when you feel yourself wavering.

    I have something similar with Katie. It's awful but her sibs have all told me that once the grands are grown they don't see them putting forth any effort with Katie anymore, there isn't much point. I can't say I blame them much.

    I only put forth effort when I see her making attempts to connect. I stopped driving myself nuts trying to pull her into family functions and whatever. She either does or doesn't. Every once in a while she surprises me. Last night she wanted info on Fred's military career for Kayla for a school project. So I told her the high points, if she wants details I am not doing 17 yrs of service in text. omg (3 navy/14 army) She was surprised and told me that is the most information she ever had about her dad. Biomom refuses to talk about him. Okkkkk........this was no was she in la la land the whole time she grew up or what?? lol

    Yes, I have to laugh a lot when it comes to Katie, otherwise I'd pound my head into the wall too frequently. I do an awful lot of ignoring too.

    I thing the group would be a big help to you. ((hugs))