Momshope - New to PE and grateful

momshope

New Member
Hello all. I am so grateful for the stories you bravely post and the encouragement shared. I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown, no joke, at the treatment I am receiving from my adult daughter. Thank goodness for therapy, a supportive hubby and friends. I am slowly accepting the systematic alienation and manipulative nature of her Narcissistic ways. It has been a life long battle, she is now 30, married and she is a new mother. Oddly I had hoped it would give her some perspective, but sadly, she is using my grandson, whom I adore as a pawn in a game, which I had definitely feared would happen.

I have dear friends who are going through this as well. To know we are not alone is SO important! When I read some of the threads my jaw hit the floor. The behaviors are so similar. I am learning not to take it personally, but omg it is so hard. I will gladly give more detailed info on my story tomorrow, I am exhausted after therapy today. But I simply wanted to know that no matter what, I am grateful not to be alone in this, and truly believe we can learn from each other and gain our strength back to living life as we all deserve.

Thank you!!!!!
 

Acacia

Well-Known Member
So glad you are getting support here and in therapy. My difficult 40 year old daughter sounds similar to yours. I, too, thought she would change after she had children, but she hasn't talked to me or allowed me to see my grandchildren for four years.

It's not you. Keep posting and be kind to yourself.
 

momshope

New Member
Thank you! I have 2 kids from my first marriage and believe it or not, a wonderful relationship with my step daughter AND her mom for over 30 years. I am good at blending families, and kept close after my divorce 17 years ago. My kids, especially the elder one (New mom) have suddenly rejected my husband with created drama and I can see where this is going. I now live 3 hours away and they won't even meet me less than halfway. My health has suffered terribly, I have cataracts (nervous to drive at night) psoriatic arthritis, PTSD from abuse and anxiety disorder, that they are well aware of. No empathy from them. I made the trip alone in October, and while I love to drive, it was very exhausting and difficult. No regrets as I got to hold my precious grandson, but REALLY they can't drive one hour while I drive two? I know it isn't me. But sometimes I wish I hadn't fallen prey to the divorce guilt, and "saved her" as a teen and college student. Her sense of entitlement is astounding and NOT how I raised either of them. But then there's DADDY who I have begged for years to stop enabling her, and get her butt into therapy. He gas lighted me at every turn, a bona fide Narcissist who now, suddenly believes in medication and therapy - for himself. Thank you so much for your encouragement and please know you and your loved ones are in my prayers tonight.

I've lost folks to suicide. It is the most selfish thing a person can do - they end their misery, and we are left with the fallout. I have compassion for the souls who feel no other way out, truly I do. But to blame others is just wrong, in my opinion.
 

LauraH

Well-Known Member
I am very glad you found this forum. It was a lifesaver for me when I stumbled across it a few years ago. This forum, Nar-Anon, and a couple of support groups on Facebook have given me the tools to retake control of my life while also giving me the strength to hold firm on the boundaries I have set. You are so right, before I found this forum I felt like the only parent on the planet dealing with this. It is such a help and comfort to know we are not alone and are in this together. I, too, have a very supportive and loving husband, and a few friends who have my back, but they are not equipped nor do they understand exactly what I am going through. That's where all these support groups come in. Welcome, welcome, welcome!
 

Acacia

Well-Known Member
I'm glad you found us. It's really difficult when one divorced parent undermines the other parent and enables the children. That happened to me with my ex, and it was so damaging. Long story.

It almost sounds as though your daughter and ex have a campaign against you and your husband. It also sounds like your life has not been easy, and your present and past have taken a toll on your health. Try to see your own mental and physical health as a priority, and be kind to yourself.
 

momshope

New Member
Hello again, Friends.
I truly need a bit of input on the latest developments. I have repeatedly asked my daughter for four months now, to travel one hour to allow me to see my grandson. This compared to a two hour journey for me. She refuses and says that if I want to see him, I can make the 3 and 1/2 to 4 hour trip (that just one way) a hotel reservation and see him.

Sadly, as I have done this in the past, my health is failing and she rejects my new husband who would gladly travel with me. In a final move, she now is having my grandsons Christening on Mothers Day, my husband is NOT invited (did I mention she lives with her husband and child with my ex?) So if I am to be acknowledged at all, I have to go.

by the way. I raised my kids as Christian, but never forced any particular religion on them. Where is forgiveness or decency in this behavior? This kid never went to church after I took her. Nor did she get the therapy I thought could help her 15 years ago, as my ex ( a Doctor) told her "things get worse if you talk about them" during our divorce. He is now in therapy and karma is a :censored2:.

Additionally, COVID forced her to post pone her destination wedding in Italy, which her Dad paid for. I had sold my home, but was able to negotiate for them to be married on her original date there, and gladly paid for same.

She now wants to have her BIG day in September in Italy. A big old black tie wedding. We have family there. Am I wrong to wonder about the hypocrisy to have such an event in a county that now has level 4 COVID warnings and is taking in at least 500,00 Ukrainian refugees, thankfully but I am supposed to travel ( and she with her infant son, ) 9 hours to sip champagne while people are suffering? It is sick making. It is all about her, as usual.

So here is the quandary. My therapist advised my to respond to her nasty text with a point by point rebuttal, which I have crafted and revised several times in a very gentle but firm way.

My friends of several decades are not going. They are livid at her treatment of me, and the fact that she shows no regard for the terrible timing of the event, Sept. 5 (labor day) I am an educator as are they, and taking the first day of school off is crazy after a 5pm wedding the day prior.

Of course it could have been Saturday or Sunday but she wants her original date, and screw the common working person. She did not even invite my friends with a plus one, nor did she invite two of my cousins, and their husbands. No respect.

While I admire my therapist who has been so helpful, one dear friend said I should simply not respond and let my daughter be until she comes "crawling" or not. A narcissist can't deal with not being acknowledged, I know. Nor do I expect her to ever come "crawling back" to me. I fly in the face of her behavior, and I am too old to change my ways of putting the human suffering in Ukraine, the generosity of Italy, or the safety of myself and my loved ones at risk, when she could donate Daddy's money to help people who actually need it, rather than staging a faux black tie benefit for her self serving day. I do not begrudge her this day, but her timing is more than dreadful.

Do I respond, or not? Truly, my friends this is costing me dearly. I struggle every day to reset myself and be grateful for my blessings, which are many. But how the hell does a Mom get through this? I am trying to take back the power of my own good life, but every day, it hurts. Any advice is so very welcome. I want to be a priority, not a choice.

My last drafted email ended with "I have repeatedly asked for more contact from you, zoom calls with my grandson, picture never received, suggestions from you on how to make this better, all for naught. If it is easier for you to simply cut me off, that is definitely what my impression is, and correct me if I am wrong. I shall accept any answer. And pray for change, as YOU were always my priority, and never ever a choice. My grandson will always be a priority. But if you choose not to drive the same hour that you have to your in-laws repeatedly, and while i love to drive,cannot safely do so alone. "
Should I respond in a respectful way or simply ignore any response that will elicit a nasty abusive text? I need peace in my life, and wish NOTHING but best for them. Help?
 

BusynMember1

Well-Known Member
I would stop begging for time and stop any response to any.nonsense response from her. I think they love the power they have over us. I think they know well that they are hurting us. That point by point rebuttal won't move her if she is deliberately sticking it to you. I wouldn't do it. But if you do, be ready to expect abuse or nothing at all. Get a therapist who understands estrangement.

There is a growing trend for kids to estrange family. It is a pandemic. If you like, there are tons of estranged parents forums on Facebook where you can talk about just this nonsense to others. Some haven't seen their kids or grands for years. Either the kids block them and won't even let them in when they visit (some call the cops,) or else the kids play games, like your daughter, who is making it ridiculously hard for you to be in their lives. This is a pattern, if it is estrangement, and is often connected to a divorce, a new spouse who doesn't like her time with you, or even adoption issues. It is nonsense that she rejects your husband but it is common. Divide and conquer. Me, I would not go if my husband could not anyway.

This estrangement is encouraged by therapists and the social media. Family is not as important as it used to be and people are encouraged to dump their parents if they want. "Take care of yourself and protect your kids from your toxic narcissist" parents. The new catch phrase.

Now most parents who are estranged are not in any way lacking. Most were, if anything, over indulgent and super loving. But our kids twist the truth.

What can we do about kids who don't include us or speak to us? Most advice from long term estranged parents on Facebook encourage moving on and living our lives, embracing those who do love us. We all have 0 control over our grown kids or our grand kids. Like 0%. They reject our reaching out to them.

Therapy helps. Good empathy on FB Estranged Parents sites gives commaraderie and pointers.

I hope you can find peace in this hard situations. Many people actually do. Hugs!
 
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LoveTempered

New Member
So sorry for all you are going through. Sometimes being the person working on healthy relationships means leaving some people behind or changing your expectations of what it means to be in a relationship. It is hard to do this when they are your children but being caught in an abuse cycle with them is not in the job description. I have had to learn and continue to learn that relationships that expect me to ransom my well-being and/or my values are not a good idea. It is a process of continual learning because it is so easy to get caring for someone entangled with being a party to their toxic patterns. I get lot's of practice because I am a magnet for narcissists! (Working on that too.)

It sounds like you are healing and taking care of yourself. You have strong feelings about the suffering in the world right now. These truths make you who you are. That is a good thing! Maybe it will be longer than you like before you see your grandson. When you do, he will be blessed with knowing a strong, loving and healthy person who did not participate in toxic games created by sick people who you love but cannot heal. Maybe one day you will be the island of sane he escapes to. Maybe not. Either way, you can choose to honor your healing and values by disengaging from the situation you describe. It sounds like an exhausting circus and that you deserve a better life. I hope you find peace with whatever you decide to do. Blessings.
 

Newksm

Member
I'm not sure I agree with your therapist about a point by point rebuttal. I think a simple note saying I am sorry I will be unable to attend your event but wish you a wonderful day with those that are able to attend. Hopefully you can show me photos and tell me all about it in the future.

If you have already spent money for the wedding, don't offer to pay more. Send a nice card. Say the nice things. And make plans for you and your husband to have a nice weekend by yourselves or with other friends. Newksm
 

momshope

New Member
I would stop begging for time and stop any response to any.nonsense response from her. I think they love the power they have over us. I think they know well that they are hurting us. That point by point rebuttal won't move her if she is deliberately sticking it to you. I wouldn't do it. But if you do, be ready to expect abuse or nothing at all. Get a therapist who understands estrangement.

There is a growing trend for kids to estrange family. It is a pandemic. If you like, there are tons of estranged parents forums on Facebook where you can talk about just this nonsense to others. Some haven't seen their kids or grands for years. Either the kids block them and won't even let them in when they visit (some call the cops,) or else the kids play games, like your daughter, who is making it ridiculously hard for you to be in their lives. This is a pattern, if it is estrangement, and is often connected to a divorce, a new spouse who doesn't like her time with you, or even adoption issues. It is nonsense that she rejects your husband but it is common. Divide and conquer. Me, I would not go if my husband could not anyway.

This estrangement is encouraged by therapists and the social media. Family is not as important as it used to be and people are encouraged to dump their parents if they want. "Take care of yourself and protect your kids from your toxic narcissist" parents. The new catch phrase.

Now most parents who are estranged are not in any way lacking. Most were, if anything, over indulgent and super loving. But our kids twist the truth.

What can we do about kids who don't include us or speak to us? Most advice from long term estranged parents on Facebook encourage moving on and living our lives, embracing those who do love us. We all have 0 control over our grown kids or our grand kids. Like 0%. They reject our reaching out to them.

Therapy helps. Good empathy on FB Estranged Parents sites gives commaraderie and pointers.

I hope you can find peace in this hard situations. Many people actually do. Hugs!
BusynMember, Thank you! The point you made about her not being in anyway lacking and twisting the truth is spot on. Did I mention that I paid for her real wedding in NY alone? It was perfect and beautiful. What a thank you note I received to "the mom with the biggest heart ever". Its like Jekyll and Hyde.

I need to remember that its the same heart she is trying to break.

I am feeling stronger now, and starting to see that I need not explain myself, which results in more push back and pain.

Thank you for your wisdom, and encouragement. It has truly helped me, and hugs to you!
 

momshope

New Member
So sorry for all you are going through. Sometimes being the person working on healthy relationships means leaving some people behind or changing your expectations of what it means to be in a relationship. It is hard to do this when they are your children but being caught in an abuse cycle with them is not in the job description. I have had to learn and continue to learn that relationships that expect me to ransom my well-being and/or my values are not a good idea. It is a process of continual learning because it is so easy to get caring for someone entangled with being a party to their toxic patterns. I get lot's of practice because I am a magnet for narcissists! (Working on that too.)

It sounds like you are healing and taking care of yourself. You have strong feelings about the suffering in the world right now. These truths make you who you are. That is a good thing! Maybe it will be longer than you like before you see your grandson. When you do, he will be blessed with knowing a strong, loving and healthy person who did not participate in toxic games created by sick people who you love but cannot heal. Maybe one day you will be the island of sane he escapes to. Maybe not. Either way, you can choose to honor your healing and values by disengaging from the situation you describe. It sounds like an exhausting circus and that you deserve a better life. I hope you find peace with whatever you decide to do. Blessings.
I literally took a screenshot of your response, so I can use it as a mantra! Thank you so very much because it gives me hope. My mother and my ex were both narcissists so I get it. I think it is much harder when its your child, though. Your wisdom gives me the impetus to stop beating myself up over this, and I am so grateful. Hugs!
 

momshope

New Member
I would stop begging for time and stop any response to any.nonsense response from her. I think they love the power they have over us. I think they know well that they are hurting us. That point by point rebuttal won't move her if she is deliberately sticking it to you. I wouldn't do it. But if you do, be ready to expect abuse or nothing at all. Get a therapist who understands estrangement.

There is a growing trend for kids to estrange family. It is a pandemic. If you like, there are tons of estranged parents forums on Facebook where you can talk about just this nonsense to others. Some haven't seen their kids or grands for years. Either the kids block them and won't even let them in when they visit (some call the cops,) or else the kids play games, like your daughter, who is making it ridiculously hard for you to be in their lives. This is a pattern, if it is estrangement, and is often connected to a divorce, a new spouse who doesn't like her time with you, or even adoption issues. It is nonsense that she rejects your husband but it is common. Divide and conquer. Me, I would not go if my husband could not anyway.

This estrangement is encouraged by therapists and the social media. Family is not as important as it used to be and people are encouraged to dump their parents if they want. "Take care of yourself and protect your kids from your toxic narcissist" parents. The new catch phrase.

Now most parents who are estranged are not in any way lacking. Most were, if anything, over indulgent and super loving. But our kids twist the truth.

What can we do about kids who don't include us or speak to us? Most advice from long term estranged parents on Facebook encourage moving on and living our lives, embracing those who do love us. We all have 0 control over our grown kids or our grand kids. Like 0%. They reject our reaching out to them.

Therapy helps. Good empathy on FB Estranged Parents sites gives commaraderie and pointers.

I hope you can find peace in this hard situations. Many people actually do. Hugs!
I completely agree, as do the others who have offered insight and support. Did I mention I paid (alone) for her actual wedding and reception last year, which was beautiful? I am apparently a great person with "the biggest heart ever" her quote, when I jump through hoops. I am tired of jumping and her Jekyll Hyde behavior.

Also paid for half her baby shower, and have not received ONE photograph after many requests.

Starting to see the light, and grateful for your wisdom and perspective. HUGS!
 

momshope

New Member
I'm not sure I agree with your therapist about a point by point rebuttal. I think a simple note saying I am sorry I will be unable to attend your event but wish you a wonderful day with those that are able to attend. Hopefully you can show me photos and tell me all about it in the future.

If you have already spent money for the wedding, don't offer to pay more. Send a nice card. Say the nice things. And make plans for you and your husband to have a nice weekend by yourselves or with other friends. Newksm
I agree with you. I already paid in full for her real wedding last year with no regrets. It was a small gathering but absolutely beautiful. This is my ex husbands big show. When I asked him to pay for college for my girls out of funds we had set aside for them he replied "Daddys pay for weddings..." I will send a nice card also indicating that I have made a donation to Ukraine relief in their name and my grandsons, to commemorate their special day.

I love my husband so much, with all my heart. I could never go there without him.

Thank you for your support!
 

NWSanta

New Member
Momshope,

As a husband supporting his Wife going through some serious times with our daughter I feel for you, and I know your husband does too. We do our best to help navigate all of these situations and events. It's so hard on family, it's so hard on relationships but, remember to take time for yourselves, remember to look after yourself! It's so important to recharge your own batteries, if you don't do that; how will you have enough energy to get through to the next day.

I'm glad you are here and I'm glad so many others have chimed in but, don't forget to take time for you. I know it's hard, it's SUPER hard to take your mind off the events but, you need to find the time for you.
 
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