need help have 5 year old adhd odd.

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by needabreak, Feb 7, 2007.

  1. needabreak

    needabreak New Member

    Hi i have a 5 year old who takes 80 millagrams of rittalin aday.and that still does not slow him down.It helps with his behavior and with out it i would be lost.The things he does when his medications are out of him is unbelievable.He cusses his faviout is s o b... he calls people idiots and is so defiant.then five minets after he does something its like he forgets what he has done.I think he may have some sort of bipolar disorder.I have had him everywhere.He currently is seen at kennedy kriegrer for behavior but i dont think it will work cause i have been to so many other places.I also have a 4 year old son who has Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified.So i am always having to keep them apart cause they are so different.any ideas or just some one to talk to would be appreciated.
  2. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    The behaviour you describe could also fit with ADHD when the medications have worn off. You can also have rebound problems, with worse behaviour for a short time after medications have worn off. My older son had rebound on ritalin but not on dex; a friend of ours had rebound on dex but not on ritalin.

    We found that switching to long-acting forms of medication 'levelled out' the ups and downs of behaviour problems. But I stress - that's what worked for us. If the ritalin IS genuinely helping him, hopefully you would notice it too. But you would need to discuss this with his doctor.

    He IS only 5, you've got typical boy behaviour in this mix as well. The forgetting stuff five minutes later - ADD inattentive type is also like this. Also, difficult child 1 has problems with laying down short-term memory. He also would forget. And sometimes there's a degree of self-censorship, because if they really had to live with themselves and the long list of all the things they've done wrong each day they wouldn't cope.

    Kids can seem very different but have problems which are connected. And often, with a kid who is a behaviour problem, you need to find different ways to discipline and parent, because the usual ways will make problems worse with some kids.

    With your five-year-old, is there any activity you can channel him into? Something he loves that will also either burn up energy or hold his attention? I used to use an indoor jogging trampoline for difficult child 1 when he was little - I would send him to do fifty jumps, when he was bouncing off the walls. difficult child 3 has a best friend who is into Lego in a big way, and invents things with them. The parents have let him have the dining table for his creations. Another five-year-old we know is into electronics and has circuit diagrams all round the house. And my difficult child 3 - if I get him to do maths work, it calms him down. It's just a matter of finding what trips their switches.

    Welcome, you should get some useful advice here.

  3. needabreak

    needabreak New Member

    there really is not nothing that he likes to do for a long amount of time .And homework forget it it takes me 4 hours to get him to do something that should take 10 just some times when i look in his eyes there no one there.and that is with out medications.he says things at school like im going to cut you and make you bleed,i'll bring a gun to school.and he goes to a catholic school that i went to when i was younger as did my mother so its really scarry sometimes even though i dont think he knows what he is saying.thanks for listing.
  4. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member

    Ok...welcome to the board.

    You have a 5 year old little boy who is doing some pretty severe things. Who diagnosed him? Who has him on this amount of medication? 80 mgs of ritalin is quite a bit if I am remembering correctly. How big is your son?

    I have heard good things about Kennedy Kreiger so hopefully you can get some good help there.

    Maybe you can tell us some info about your little boy and it will give us some info to help us help you. Tell us what behaviors are most concerning for you but also tell us what he likes to do and what makes him special. You say he doesnt really like to do anything for any length of time...nothing? No video games, tv, playing outside, bikes, pets, friends?
  5. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    Needabreak, what kind of doctor diagnosed your son with ADHD and what kind of doctor is treating him with Ritalin? Has Kennedy Krieger given you any indication that you're looking at something beyond ADHD? It is a very well-respected facility so I hope you will get to the bottom of what's going on with your son.

    by the way, 80 mg of Ritalin is a very high dose for a 5-year-old. It is not recommended that children 6 years and old take more than 60 mg a day. Side effects for Ritalin can include depression, mania, psychosis and an increase in anxiety. If it's not helping, you either need to try a new medication, or you have the wrong diagnosis.
  6. Sara PA

    Sara PA New Member

    Whoa! Eighty mg for a five year old???

    Ritalin has not been tested on or approved for children under 6 and the doses over 60 mg aren't recommended for anyone.

    That nastiness and aggression are essentially symptoms of daily withdrawal. You couldn't possible tell if he was bipolar while taking that dose of Ritalin.
  7. needabreak

    needabreak New Member

    Well he only wieghs 36 pounds and that is the only side effect of the medicine.I know it is alot and tha tos why i start looking around because there has got to be something going on in his brain cause its like his body eats up the medications and spits it out i just want him to get the right kind of help befour he is to old and i have no controll of him.Im just trying to enjoy him now while i can befour he is to old.he does not have any friends to play with.and at school he isolates himself most of the time.and thats sad.and then other times he does not .
  8. Sara PA

    Sara PA New Member

    Does he eat? Is he growing? Not eating and not growing are side effects of the stimulants.
  9. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member

    There are some people who metabolize medications extremely fast but at his age I would be doing what you are and really searching. Are the docs are KK the ones who are prescribing the ritalin?

    I have been in your shoes. I had one truly ADHD kid who ritalin worked like a charm on. I cant honestly remember what dose he took at 5 but I think it was maybe 10 mgs twice a day because he was a rather large 5 year old. Way larger than your son. Then I had one that ended up being bipolar but back then it simply wasnt heard of.

    Do you take him to a therapist or do you see a therapist about him? Can you ask for a play therapist for him? How about some sort of social skills group for him? What kind of testing have you had done on him to get the ADHD and ODD diagnosis?
  10. needabreak

    needabreak New Member

    we have tryed 4 different medications and none of them worked they made him worse.and i cant take him off of it cause then he can not go to school cause no one can handle him.even though they are trying so hard.he takes 10 mill at 6:00 when he is still asleep then at 7:30 he takes 30mills longacting.which out of his system by 11:00 then he takes 20mill at12:00 then just to get through the rest of the day he takes 20 mill short acting.and i tell you he still goes the main thing it does is controll his behavior.then he dont cuss or hit or say anything wrong.
  11. Sara PA

    Sara PA New Member

    What other medications have you tried?
  12. needabreak

    needabreak New Member

    well kki does not prescribe because he is only seeing a therapist now.there is a 6 month waiting list to see a trying to get him into sheppard pratt.he was even at johns hopkins at bayview but all they did is take all his mads away and i could not controll him and when school started i had to do something.imwaiting till he turns 6 cause they have a study for children who is bipolar using aldult not interested in the study itself but the testing they do to make sure he belongs there is what iwant done and no body else will do it cause he is to young they say
  13. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member

    What did Johns Hopkins say and why did they take the medications away? So who is now prescribing those medications? Did Johns Hopkins want to try something besides medications? Is that was KK wants to do now?

    It is possible that your son doesnt have ADHD and that the ADHD medications are making things worse.
  14. needabreak

    needabreak New Member

    his pediatrician is prescribing.i dont think he has just adhd i think it is more.but untill i foind out what i dont know what to do.j.h.took him off because they wanted to focuse on the behavior but when i found out that the phys. did not believe in bipolar in children i pulled him out . they say he is adhd and odd and if it is bipolar yes it could be making it worse but with out medications he can not go to school.also i come from a short family so he is shotr for hos age but they ssay he is growing fine.and at night time that is when he eats the most.and he eats all healty food he does not like candy or junk food.
  15. Liahona

    Liahona Active Member

    There are kids younger than 6 that are diagnosed with bipolar. Are there other psychiatrists that don't have a 6 month waiting list? Can the therapist pull some strings to get him in earlier. Sometimes therapists have a relationship with the psychiatrist and can do that. Most psychiatrists have a crisis line you can call. Those are some really serious things he is saying. Will he act on them? Its possible to have BiPolar (BP) and ADHD. The BiPolar (BP) needs to be taken care of first. This will calm down some of the ADHD and the manic/depressive mood swings. The book the bipolar child really helped me see that my difficult child is BiPolar (BP). It also has a chart that is great for tracking moods, energy, medications, and sleep. You sound like your at the end of your rope. I'm sorry.
  16. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member

    Who is saying that without medications he cannot go to school?

    A school cannot tell you that. If the school cannot handle him because of his behavior in the regular classroom then they have to place him in a class for kids who have behavior problems so they can help him work on them. It is normally a smaller classroom with more teachers and less students and they get more attention and it is more focused.

    It could be that you need to work on behaviors. Maybe reading the explosive child would help.

    I dont know...I just dont think a pediatrician is experienced enough with difficult psychiatric problems to handle a kid of this magnitude. Not if the child is running thru ritalin that fast. Simple ADHD...ok.
  17. Liahona

    Liahona Active Member

    I think she is in a private school. A public school can't say that. I don't know about a private one.
  18. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member

    Well that is true.
  19. needabreak

    needabreak New Member

    i finally got him in the pride program that is like Special Education. in public. but he has to be normal intell.his school is the only one that does have a program like that i just can not see sending him to a public school.he does get the disaplin he needs there.also i work there just so i can be closer to him. i work in the cafetira by i could not get a job any where else cause of the kind of sceadule i have with both of my boys they could not give me the hours i wanted .
  20. Liahona

    Liahona Active Member

    Sounds like the school is working with you. Its nice to have a school that'll do that.