Need help re Hailie

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by DammitJanet, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I just got the info that her school wants hold her back for another year in Kindergarten. Supposedly in some test she scored a 48. I have no clue what test that is but if it is is just one test it cannot be a full evaluation.

    After reading everything on here over the years, I dont think its wise to hold them back a year but to have them tested for an IEP and have her go into first grade with an IEP. Actually as irritating as Hailie is, I know she is quite smart. Im not sure exactly what the issue is and someone here may know what the test is that would give her a 48. I am pretty darned sure it couldnt be an IQ test because unless she simply was being completely ODD that day, she would have scored much higher than that. I am also going to advise that the kids have Michael tested immediately and have him enter early intervention because if they want to hold Hailie back, omg, he will never make it. Personally I think he is on the autism spectrum.

    What do you guys think, should I push the kids to do a full IEP evaluation? I can email them the letters to start the ball rolling so that they can get all this testing done plus they are very close to a really good neuropsychologist to do it private too. I just dont know how fast they can get in to the private place. I think they should send in the school paperwork asap to get the timeline started if they want to protect her.
  2. HaoZi

    HaoZi CD Hall of Fame

    Yes, they need to push for a full evaluation from a neuropsychologist, an IEP evaluation, and ask to have her re-tested for whatever test that was she got a 48 on in an environment with no distractions on a GOOD day for HER.
  3. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Around here they have a class that is sort of like doing kdg again but not quite. It gives them a year to mature before going to first grade but it is a lot more stimulating mentally than doing the same thing over again. It is very common in our area for about 20% of the kids in kdg to end up in this class because they just are not ready to go to first grade where they have to sit and pay attention a lot more. It always seemed to me that it was the kids wth parents that didn't teach them how to behave well who ended up in this class and who truly NEEDED it. In the long run it was easier for kids to do this class than repeat a grade some later year.

    I have no idea what test they are using. I do remember when husband's nephew was told he couldn't go to kdg yet because he wasn't smart enough. He missed ONE thing on some stupid test that the kids had to pass every question on to get in. They showed a picture of a tie and the kids were supposed to say that it represented Daddy. Nephew's dad is a heating/air guy. He didn't even wear a tie to his WEDDING and his child had never seen one on him. My sister in law had a fit and chewed them up one side and down the other because it was very biased and prejudiced and many of the kids this school thought were dumb (and they told parents to not expect their kids to go to college after missing one or two things on this test, who does that iwth kids going into kdg???) were kids with fathers who didn't wear ties and moms who didn't wear aprons. sister in law wears an apron to protect her clothes while she puts makeup on. If they had asked nephew what room you wear an apron in, he would have flunked that too. All they wanted was the kids to say that mom is represented by an apron, which is as wrong as the tie thing, in my opinion.

    there are all kinds of reasons why a test score might or might not be valid, and with-o knowing what test was given, you can't really know what that score means.

    She NEEDS the full workup very badly. What they are telling her parents is that she is not going to be successful in a first grade. This means she is identified as probably having special needs and they MUST test her before changing her placement from a regular class with her peers. How would they know how best to help her if they don't figure out what the problems are? Push Jamie and Billie to go for the full private neuropsychologist at the good doctor AND for a full IEP evaluation. Sit down with Jamie (on the phone is okay) and tell him exactly how to do it, incl sendin it certified. Let him know that these steps bring in legally binding protections for Haillie and will provide whatever help she needs to unlock the amazing potential of her future. I know hallie is a badly behaved child, but at her age that is her parents' faults, not hers. To be able to do some of the manpulations, she has to be very smart. If they cannot get the help she needs, sshe likely won't even know it, much less the rest of the world. STRESS to Jamie that he needs to take control over evaluations and things because Billie won't listen or follow through. This is way too important for his child's future for him to let Billie do it her own way and mess it up. There are not many right ways to get the evaluation done. There ispretty much one way, it is set by law and if you don't follow it or the school talks you out of it, your kid suffers. So he needs to follow through on this, with your help and guidance.

    Don't set expectations too high. Neither of her parents are great at follow through, so to get all this done may take a lot of cheerleading and coaching on your part. And if they get Michael tested too? he has help BEFORE school gets so tough that he isn't coping or learning. If he has no problems, all the testing does is show how great he is. So that may be an angle to work things so that Jamie and/or Billie listens.

    I hope this helps. if you find the test name, I can be of a lot more help with that score.
  4. trinityroyal

    trinityroyal Well-Known Member

    I agree with Susie, HaoZi and you. Yes, you should push them to go for a full IEP. Unless they know what sort of problems they are dealing with, the schools and other supports won't know how best to help Hailie. And, given that she's a bright girl, if the school assumes she's not so sharp and tries to tailor her education that way, it may very well cause more trouble than it solves.
  5. 1905

    1905 Well-Known Member

    They don't want to spend money on anything extra, so you NEED to tell them you want all those other tests. They HAVE to listen to you. Secondly, it may be just because of her behavior. I bet this is the reason. The lowest functioning child still will move on to the next grade, just placed in an appropriate class. If she is still mainstreamed, it's behavior only, get more details, question everything.

    Do you know you can say , "NO, I want her to move on."? They have to listen to you. They don't tell you that, they can suggest it in a way like they rule the situation, but you have the final word. Maybe all she needs is a behavior plan in that mainstream classroom. If she were mine, she moves on. If Sp-Ed, she would still move on, but since she is not sp-ed.......she's staying in her grade. There is an advocate you can contact if they give you trouble. I have seen this and the parents have the final say, TRUST ME!
  6. Ktllc

    Ktllc New Member

    The situation is delicate because you are not the mother. You can only suggest, but at the end the parents will listen or not.
    Asking for a full evaluation cannot hurt. The parents couls also request a meeting an talk with the teacher first, and discuss what the reason is behind the decision to hold her back.
    The teacher could have some valid points or not.
    If the behavior is at the root of most problems, I would highy suggest get a private evaluation to understand what is driving the behavior.
    I think a school is always going to be eager to help child with- challenges and no behavior issues. on the other hand, a child that is hard to manage because of behavior will be more stigmatised.
    But we all know on this board: behavior is a way to communicate for children. The adults around the child have to be super motivated in order to understand the reasons behind the behavior. As the grand-mother, you can only do so much. Would her parents be ok with you attending the school meeting? They are allowed to have anyone with knowledge on the child. During a meeting I know would be difficult, I had V's Occupational Therapist (OT) come with me. I always help to have some support. Someone who can redirect the conversation in the right direction if need be.
    So, maybe, first thing: ask the parent how involve you can be in helping them in the process. Than you will have to respect the level of involvment they choose...
  7. 1905

    1905 Well-Known Member

    The school year is only half over, what kind of supports are they trying right now? They have a laundry list of things they can do. How can they decide to hold her back without trying everything? The 48 grade, what is the median grade for her class? Her state? You need intellegent answers, then decide.
  8. HaoZi

    HaoZi CD Hall of Fame

    I really think the hardest thing here will be getting Hallie's mom with the program. Hate to say it, but I think that's where the most resistance is going to be.
  9. buddy

    buddy New Member

    No way to know from a score what test it is. Don't even know if it is a district test or state. The only thing for sure is its not iq or any individualized testing because that requires parent permission.

    They usually only suggest retention if they think a child is overall immature and no decent school only uses one measure to decide but the"test" May have been the easiest way to explain it or the kids may only have told you that part .

    you just don't have enough info. Bottom line, if there is a problem, retention is not a first line intervention. it's not even found successful in evidence based research.

    I'd be asking for testing Inc fba for any behavior concerns and for class room interventions now. There is information missing here.
  10. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Services are tied to an IEP and the evaluations that go with that.
    Therefore... if they are recommending holding her back, that is de facto recognition that she needs a full evaluation.
    The full evaluation will either support holding her back (unlikely) or will likely reveal some real issues that need accommodations and/or interventions...
  11. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    I don't have much to add except that she has a late birthday... Which may be part of it. PC18 has a late June birthday and I should have held him back- school wanted to- but I had him evaluated and then tutored over the summer to enter 1st grade and he needed & had extra help for two years. He did catch up by grade 3 and was excelling by grade 5- but it was rough in grades 1 and 2. In retrospect, he would have been better repeating K. He had so many kids in his grade who were 12,13, 14+ months older than he and it was hard - maturity wise. It's a big age gap in the primary years.

    My h repeated K (10/25 birthday, cut off was 12/1 back then) and it worked out great for him.

    Just a thought if your cutoff is 9/1- a 7/15 birthday makes her very young among her classmates. My hindsight for pc18 thinks that being an "oldie "in the class would have been better than being the youngest.

    Just a thought...
  12. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I held back both of my children in preK and it was the best thing I ever did! They both have "fall bdays" (easy child in sept and difficult child in aug). Even though they repeated that year, their maturity level was different so they experienced the year through different eyes.

    The test could have just been a k readiness test. They test things like memory (have the child repeat a sentences, follow a pattern, etc.), problem solving (give the child a couple scenarios and ask them "what would you do?"), repeat words (to test oral understanding for others), have them do things like hop, catch a beanbag (and it really does hold meaning), see if they recognize their name, etc. Both of my children had this test (but they were in a small parochial school at the time) and it was recommended that easy child stay behind because she was one point under the magic moving on number. Again it was a suggestion and I could overrule. But after giving it consideration, I decided to hold her back.

    So, what I'm saying here is just because they are recommending she stay back doesn't automatically mean she needs some sort of IEP evaluation. Before jumping to conclusions or going off half-cocked in indignation, which was my first desire :) it is in Hailie's best interest for her parents to get more information. Find out what exactly the test was and how it was scored as well as what area or areas led them to make that recommendation.

    Side note - when I asked for some of the areas easy child had trouble in here are a few that pop to mind - she couldn't hop well (she has always been uncoordinated and it was nothing that required therapy of any sort), there were a number of words they could not understand when they asked her to repeat (she had some issues with certain consonant combinations which totally corrected itself within the next year), and in the problem solving area: You go upstairs by yourself and go into your bedroom. The room is dark, what do you do? Well she responded, "Call my mom or dad to turn on the light". Their evaluation indicated that she was not a "problem solver" yet which showed immature thinking when in fact the light switches in her room were too high for her to reach (big old house with high on off buttons)! So, it's not always a case of indicating future problems. Testing could also be subjective. I would suggest that Billie and Jamie set up a meeting at school to go over the results in person.

    Often, as parents who have struggled with difficult children, we think anticipate the worse. That's not to say that Hailie may not need supports or evaluations, but I would get a one-on-one meeting to discuss the test first.

  13. svengandhi

    svengandhi Well-Known Member

    This will be tough for you because you are not her mom. When it was suggested to me that I hold difficult child back in K (he has a 9/1 birthday in a 12/1 district), it was about at this point in the year. I asked the teacher when the final determination had to be made and his teacher told me it could wait into the summer, even though the principal really didn't want it to go that long. difficult child's issue was partly speech related and partly behavioral. At the end of the school year, the teacher told me that his behavior was not much improved and neither was his speech but she could understand him better and had reversed her recommendation because he was very smart. I moved him forward and never regretted it but I have this weird thing about my kids not being the oldest in the grade. I am upset that babyboy has a March birthday and will be 18 when he graduates; I am already plotting ways to get him out a semester early. easy child will be 18 and about 3 weeks and I'm upset about that too but he's in a vocational program so I can't move him out early. H thinks my obsession is strange but whatever.

    Anyway, about Hailie - find out when the final decision is made, what this recommendation is based on, what the test was. Nothing will happen unless you can get her parents on board.

    Good luck.