New Member......Need Help

[Copabanana]

For you Sumsky this is a win-win however is the short term pain.

You can only do what you can do. You have tried every single step of the way to do the right thing for everybody. If your husband chooses the easier path which would be to bail, he would be bailing on himself. His son, his marriage and his family.

How could you do it alone, without his partnership? The marriage would have collapsed.

It may be he is in overload and he will find his strength and responsibility. But you know where you stand. It is with your daughter. Either within your family as it is constituted now or leaving. The choice will have been made for you by your husband, by his own resolve. That he is in effect, leave if you don't like it, is all too human. I hope he can get past it.

Either way, you are made in the shade. You have been clear. You have been supportive. You have been selfless. You have been strong and steady. But it hurts the thought your husband may not come through for you and for himself. But better to know. I hope he shows up.

 

[Copabanana]

SS has always been buffered from full consequences. He doesn’t react well to losing privileges. How is he going to react to CYS forcing him to see some of this? Or a judge forcing him to see this? SS is getting pinched all around right now. Between school, home, legal, etc.... as much as I want this to work I am afraid of what SS is capable of even more than ever!!!

I have so much work to do and can't hang out here. Not.

OK. All of this is possible. Maybe probable. I think that only you can make the determination to what extent there is danger. And to what extent you are served by staying. None of us could know what you would lose by separating.

I think what SWOT is saying is that for her, there is already enough danger, that she would leave. But you and SWOT are not the same person, and your situation is different than the one she faced.

But you are afraid. I think you need to honor those feelings. And listen. Your primary responsibility is to your daughter and to yourself. In that, I agree with SWOT. It is just that I think these things can be complicated and need sorting out. We need to listen to all parts of ourselves, not necessarily the voice that is dominant this particular moment.

Your husband right now is overwhelmed by fear and grief. And so he seems to be responding like a Macho male, with a taking control voice: My way or the highway. Let's see how that works out for him. I hope he changes the channel and begins to tolerate some of his pain and guilt and fear. And if he does he will turn back to you. But that does not mean you need to stay.

A friend told me about somebody she knows who has a difficult adult child (fetal alcohol syndrome) who moved home with a new wife and a new baby. The father was on board one hundred percent but the mother, while she shared responsibility for the decision, felt that she had lost herself. They had the financial resources that she could get an apartment so that she could preserve her own sense of personhood. The marriage is very much intact. People solve things in all sorts of ways. The goal is to stay in communication and in hope and true to oneself. That is how I see it.

Just as your husband can see this his own way and decide to give ultimatums, you can do something similar. You can hear your fears, and you can choose to leave, temporarily or permanently. You are not obligated to stay in a situation that you find frightening and overwhelming. You did not create it. It is not your responsibility if you choose to not take it on. And it does not mean that your husband will not wake up. But I find it uncaring that he is even voicing the idea that your daughter should "deal with this." But I have empathy for him because the one who cannot deal with it, seems to be him. (To be honest he sounds kind of hysterical and over his head right now. I can relate totally.)

But I am not advocating that you take one action or another. I am supporting you to listen to yourself, and supporting you to do what you need to do. Just because we understand and we would want to help, does not mean that we must.

 

[Copabanana]

But I do think he enjoys a lot of the discord he causes.

It must be gratifying to him, all of this attention. But the thing is, all of this has been a prelude to the main event. And he will not enjoy much the main event, which is that he will have to focus upon himself and he will have the system, meaning CYS and the judge, and others, focused upon him.

As I write this, I am feeling more of what SWOT expresses, that you do not need, and perhaps should not need to deal with the unfolding of this. And in particular, your daughter need not deal with it.

It sounds like your husband is holding her a little bit responsible, inferring to some extent that there has been an overreaction to her victimization and everybody needs to get on with their lives, and if they don't they need to remove themselves from a perfectly wonderful story. And that they are the bad guys if they keep ruining his perfectly wonderful story of his life and his family's life.

Your daughter should not be scapegoated by these people. Especially by your husband. And neither should you be scapegoated, and made the problem.

This sounds a lot like the great-grandparents. The everything is perfect story, that we can protect with money. We can just pretend.

Your husband is at a choice point in his life and you are too. There is nothing at all easy about this.

 

[BusynMember]

Copa, i dont think hub has much empathy for the sex crime his son FORCED on his stepdaughter. Sex crimes are not different in one family to another.(unless the parents dismiss a sex crime as okay)..the offender should never again be around the victim.

I think if hub wants to have empathy for this son above the girl then this marriage will fail. It is a matter of time. The girl hasnt even started therapy yet but she will and probably her pain will erupt. There is a great chance she will never again wish to see SS. And Sumsky is a loving mother. She will choose het daughter over her husband.

I dont think the man's family or him understand the devestation of sexual abuse. I cant see this family ever being whole as long as father wants SS to be a part of it. I cant see SS snd Daughter AND HER KIDS sitting together around the Christmas table.

This is too big. Too intense. Too heinous of a crime. But Sumsky knows and is thinking right.

 

[Sumsky]

I feel like I am seeing things a lot clearer the longer this goes. For a while I had the ‘rose colored glasses’ on. Believing that there was a way to make this work. I’m starting to question why I would even want to be with a man that would allow and protect anyone other than the victim. I’m seeing my husband in a completely different light and I’m not liking what I see at all!!! I said to him a long time ago that by doing nothing you are saying and doing a lot. By being passive and ‘protecting’ you are still hurting those around you. And there was never a time more obvious than now! I don’t think I can ever look at him the same way again. His indecision has been his decision all along. It is a statement to his priorities. And unfortunately, his family is not a priority!! It’s not a matter of me and my kids vs him and his son. He is hurting himself and his son as much as he is hurting me and my kids. I feel this is as much my husbands fault as SS. He has never been a parent but rather a friend. He has never been a partner. He does not adult well!! It’s too much for me now. And as much as I would love to stick with the for better, for worse, I can’t do it while sacrificing my children, especially my daughter!! So, I have decided and made arrangements to leave when I get back from vacation. My kids will be with my parents next week and I will join them when I get home.

 

[BusynMember]

I am sorry it didnt work out.

His entire family, grandparents included, are not feeliing badly for your daughter, just for this son. Some people consider their family of origin as their important family. Maybe your hub is that way.

I knew you would do the right thing.

 

[Elsi]

Sumsky I’m just catching up on the latest developments here. I’m so sorry. I think you are making the right call in putting your daughter’s safety and healing first. You can feel bad for SS, but you can’t allow her to be put in harms way again. I was sexually abused and it was swept under the rug so as not to rock the boat. It is a terrible message to send to a young girl. If there is no accountability for the perpetrator, the victim is left to internalize all of the shame and the blame. I’m so sorry that your husband can’t see her needs and rights in this equation. Hugs to you and your daughter as you take this step.

 

[Copabanana]

Believing that there was a way to make this work. I’m starting to question why I would even want to be with a man that would allow and protect anyone other than the victim. I’m seeing my husband in a completely different light and I’m not liking what I see at all!!!

Basically he told you where he stood. He wants this all to go away. He told you to leave if you would not go with the party line, which was ostrich in the sand. I do not think this is the end of the story, but at the same time I think you have no place to stand given where he is.

I do not discount that he can overcome this. He has come a long way. It did not seem at first that he would go along with any of this. He was so wobbly, but he did go along with the program of evaluation. I think you are in the midst of a crisis, and he is in a worse crisis. This will take time for him. I do believe he can come to his senses. If this was not a possibility why would he have gone this far? Was it because he wanted to keep the relationship with you? Was it fear and caring for his child? Was it an awareness that son did a horrible thing, and he knew it? But he is maxed out for now.

But even if husband finds his spine, there is still your daughter. I do believe she is the priority, but it is not so simple to say what serves her. Certainly denial and scapegoating do not serve her. Certainly being around stepson does not serve her. Certainly living with anxiety that he come back, does not serve her.

In some sense, your husband is right. He sees the writing on the wall. That there is no circumstance that this can be a unified family. It has been broken in half. Because if his son is a perpetrator, regardless of his diagnosis, he can never be with your daughter again. And this is the reality of things. I am sorry.

I do not think your husband is a bad guy. But he may be a weak one, a limited one. But he could be a weak man, on the way to being stronger.

So, I have decided and made arrangements to leave when I get back from vacation. My kids will be with my parents next week and I will join them when I get home.

I feel bad for you. I think you have decided wisely and well. But I am sorry.

 

[Copabanana]

He is hurting himself and his son as much as he is hurting me and my kids.

He is a huge victim here. But this seems like a characteristic that runs deep in the family, the wanting to preserve a pretty picture rather than confronting reality. I feel very sorry for the stepson. He deserves more from his father. And you deserve more from your husband.

 

[BusynMember]

I dont think he will ever choose your kids and you over his great grandparents and son, who is a bad person. He sexually abused your daughter. I would cut ties with the husband for your sake. You can then be free to live alone without SS in the picture. You can live as a loving family or even meet a man you REALLY deserve who loves you and your children above all else. This man doesnt put you or your kids equal to his family of origin. Bet the great grandparents whisper in his willing ear. I hope you give yourself and your kids that chance to do better...the way you deserve things to be.

Sometimes marriages have to end. The people move on.

Good luck. Hugs!

 

[Copabanana]

I think everybody has consensus about what serves daughter in the short and medium term. And that is that her mother protect her decisively, one hundred percent. And she is served that her mother walk away from ANY situation where she, the daughter, is compromised or threatened. Since this bad act did happen, and there is no way to mitigate against risk, this seems to be the clear course, to walk away. And now husband has declared he is unwilling to deal with the elephant in the room. And that he refuses to accept anybody in the family that keeps insisting that there is an elephant. The dominos keep dropping. It seems a done deal. Because something did happen. You can't get over that. And husband has declared he will sacrifice your daughter. Not to his son's interests, but to his own.

This is a sad and ugly story. There is no place for you. There is no place for your daughter. This has been made clear by how husband is handling this.

I guess my sadness is this: I believe in redemption. I believe in change. I believe people grow. I believe stepson if he was to be helped to get treatment, could well have healed some. Part of you believed this, too. No matter your fear, no matter your ambivalence, you were committed to stepson too. You were committed to this family, the nuclear part. You were committed to find a way to make this work so that everybody together would heal.

I believe that families can keep together in horrible circumstances, and couples can find their way, too. Even in horrible situations, that seem to be insurmountable, I believe that people can seek strength. And they can find their way back to each other.

You have so much responsibility, so much strength to share....I guess the way to see this is as does SWOT. That you will bring these qualities, your commitment, your love to another relationship with a stronger man, and a less toxic family.

I am sad for you. Like SWOT says, some relationships are meant to end. Sometimes things happen that are insurmountable.

But I want you to know that we will support you no matter what you choose.

 

[Copabanana]

Hi Sumsky,

You have had a tough couple of days. How are you today?

 

[BusynMember]

Copa....sexual abusers cant really redeem themselves. They cant take back the heinous act. The best gift, if he had a heart, would be to admit all, apoligize to her in a letter maybe (not in person) and promise to stay away from her forever. This is the type of crime that can ruin the other persons life. Its not like getting over being robbed. Its a private intimate violation. Its in the rape category.

Some things sadly can not be fixed. This is a very young girl. Its about her, not him. Also when people divorce usually its for good and they move on. I cant think of one reason for her not to do that, like I did, like a million people do. Ss will always be this man's son and his family is pushing him to pretend he is just a regular, normal kid, which he isnt. She maybe needs to find the love of somebody who understands the needs of her and her children... and who deeply cares... or in my opinion she is perhaps best off alone. This man and his son are not acting loving at all. The son will never be in any way good for the daughter. Why should she ever be pressured to see him, as is the norm in family gatherings. I could be wrong but I dont think she should ever feel she has to see him again.

Sometimes we need to just walk away for our health and safety and for that of our young loved ones. Everyone isnt me...I know this...but I was with my first husband 17 years. If I had not finally left, I never would have had my wonderful husband and family. I talk to my ex but I made a decision to leave him and have never been sorry.

Love amd light . I hope I did not sound critical. I did not mean to.

 

[Sumsky]

Hi Sumsky,

You have had a tough couple of days. How are you today?

Copa, I’m up and down a lil today... but honestly feeling stronger and like I have a plan instead of just drifting on autopilot. I feel like I have finally taken control of the decisions instead of waiting for others to make the choices that are best. I have not and will not say anything to my husband until we are back from vacation. We are going with a large group of people and I expect husband will be perfect through vacation. No responsibilities or expectations so no pressure. Thank you for checking in with me. I will be ok through this.... I’ve had a lot of eye openers this year and it’s slowly cleared things for me. It’s still hard but it is what needs to happen!!!

 

[Copabanana]

Copa....sexual abusers cant really redeem themselves. They cant take back the heinous act.

I agree with you here, if you are referring to an adult sex offender. They are almost to a man, impervious to treatment, and confirmed predators. In my state for this reason there is a law that ensures that when they finish their state prison term they are automatically transferred to specialized state hospitals for indeterminate sentences, which means, for their entire lives, if they are not rehabilitated.

There is a difference here. This child has not been charged and convicted of a sex crime. And I do not think if push came to shove, he would have been. But I am not an attorney.

Second. I did not hear in sumsky's post to us that the psychologist or the therapists perceived that sexuality was the heart of or fueled his offensive behavior. It sounds like he is thought to be a child who is disconnected from himself and even to reality, not that he does not perceive it, but that he misperceives it. He seems also to be insufficiently aware of the impact of his behavior. While he violated boundaries to an extreme extent, it does not seem that his intention was to commit a sex act. What he was, was predatory towards sumsky's daughter probably fueled by envy or jealousy or resentment. Which is just as bad. But it is not a sex offense.

He would not be considered a sex abuser legally, to the extent that I am aware of the law, and he does not seem to be considered to have a impulse disorder by the mental health professionals.

His treating professionals appear to believe he can be treated and helped. I am not taking a position about whether this young man is redeemable or not. But he is not a sex offender or sex abuser by every psychological or legal category of which I am aware. In psychological terms, he has not met the criteria and he may never.

This does not mean that Sumsky should not take great care in her choices, as she is doing.

 

[BusynMember]

Copa...if you had s daughter this had happened to or God forbid if this had happened to your son, because sexual acts do happen to boys too, you wouldnt be caring about this boy's age or what psychologists said. You would just want one thing....that he keep the hello away from your child and get treatment or discipline somewhere far from your child. Mothers do not listen politely to things about 15 year olds, which is older than her daughter, who sexually violate their girls. Especially girls. Im sorry. This marriage can only endure if the man agrees to keep his son away from her daughter. There is no chance of family here. A family needs to enjoy Christmas together.

I have never heard of a mother whose younger child was violated who was okay with her child ever being around the offender again. I also sadly know a lot of adults who were violated, and sometimes it was by a minor brother. It destriys families and is never just forgiven and forgotten, 15 or older.

Copa you will have to take my word that it doesnt work.

Or not.

I cant stop you from thinking this is not huge because he is 15....but it is. And Sumsky could lose her daughter if she gives this boy who violated her a chance. And to be fair maybe you WOULD be the rare motjer who would let your son be around his offender again if you heard the right psycholigical words. But psychiatry is not absolute fact and I totally dont think most parents would care about what the offender's psychologist decided. Their child is hurt. That puts us in protective mode.

I think Sumsky has weighed it all and is in mother mode. Mothers first and foremost want their kids to be safe. For sure. The SS is his father's problem, not hers. Her goal is to protect her child. There is NO way to be sure her daughter can be sure if being safe around SS.

Fortunately, since this boy is not her son, she doesnt need to feel split.

Love snd light!

 

[Copabanana]

Hi SWOT

I am in complete agreement with what your write. I am not commenting about what Sumsky should or should not do or what any mother should do.

I do not feel comfortable using the words sex abuser or sex offender about this teen who I do not know, especially because nothing in the circumstances to me sounds like his act is being considered a sex crime. And I have doubt if it would be considered to be a paraphilia, or deviancy by many psychologists.

I just feel uncomfortable calling him a sex offender without a legal process and without confirmation by a mental health professional. Maybe this has happened and I missed it. If so, I am remiss. And most definitely, Sumsky should consider him dangerous to her daughter. He has already proven himself that.

I only wrote the post because I feel better having clarity about definitions in case there are other readers here. I also hold the opinion that Sumsky is served by varied information, and I do not believe I am steering her wrong. Let me restate this is not a commentary about what she should do. Just an amplification of what this thread is.

I am not disputing your own deeply held beliefs and feelings, which you argue clearly and well. I am just adding my own voice, here.

 

[BusynMember]

Well he violated this girl but I dont care what he is called. It WAS a sexual act. But....

All I care about is the girl, really. Not him or his official label. Just keeping him from her.

So thats just fine. I dont care what he is called as long as he is not near her.

Peace

 

[Sumsky]

Just to clarify what we have been told by the professionals working with SS. The results of the psychosexual evaluation ‘label’ SS as a hands off sexual abuser. There were no legal charges (because I chose to give counseling a try first) and the attorney I consulted did not feel that SS would be given anything more than counseling and probation. She did not feel he would have to register either. And she has many years working with CYS. We had the psychosexual evaluation that would have been required. That evaluation determined that SS was at a low risk of hands on sexual abuse. It was also said that because of his age, there was a greater chance of working through this with him and being able to overcome it. Copa and SWOT, I go back and forth (minute to minute, day to day) with what both of you are saying. I do truly believe that if I had the say and could do the recommended treatment with ALL the follow up that there is hope for SS. That being said, I don’t have the say and I also have a very sweet and innocent daughter to think about. I feel very strongly that I can’t save them both. And the obvious choice is my daughter. She is the victim and she is hurting. As angry and frustrated as I get with SS,I do understand that he is hurting too. And I feel very strongly that he does not have the right advocate in his corner. Under different circumstances, I could be that advocate. But not under these. Do I feel that he will perp again? Under the current circumstances (without someone getting him the full help he needs) yes I do. Do I think with the right help, he will continue down this road? I don’t think he will. I think he’s very confused and doesn’t understand a lot of what is going on with his body and hormones, etc. his cognitive testing showed he is within average range of everything except it takes him a little longer to process everything. So, he understands and knows right from wrong but it takes him a few seconds longer to process everything. This child has never had a positive female figure in his life. At least not one that he has been allowed to have without someone undermining. His relationship with his bio mom has never been stable and has been completely non existent for years. His grandmother has seen him maybe once every month or two for an hour here and there. His great grandmother has been a huge influence, but has handed him everything he asked for and repeatedly told him that I’m not his mother he doesn’t have to listen to me. And has also told him that basically everyone in his life doesn’t treat him right. And I have had tried to set rules and routines and consequences as well as love and support, but everyone continues to tell him that I’m not the boss. So, it’s no wonder he has no respect for women. Not that that is an excuse! But I guess what I’m saying is that the professionals are saying he needs to unlearn the bad and relearn the good. And I was willing to try that. However, I can’t and won’t sacrifice my daughter to help him. And that is the situation that my husband has put me in ny not stepping up to his responsibilities. So, I guess what I’m saying is that I don’t feel SS is pure evil right now. However, I do feel that is a matter of time. And I can’t be there for that!!!!

 

[Elsi]

Sumsky, you’ve been set up in an impossible situation. It’s clear that you care about SS, even after all this, and were willing to be the stable, loving influence he needed to have a chance to get better. But that can’t happen when you’re being actively undermined by your husband and your husband’s family. I’m sad for SS. But I think you are absolutely doing the right thing for your daughter. She needs to know that you have her back. And I agree that to stay in the marriage your husband would have to have her back - and yours - also. That he can’t take her safety and her feelings seriously is unacceptable. I’m so sorry it has come to this.