Not going that well...


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I have to be honest, things are just not that great here. No, I do not think she is back on drugs. I really don't. It is much more worrisome than that because I am now realizing that these annoying traits that she has is HER and not the drugs. Sure she was great for about 6 months and then that lazy, entitled attitude came creeping back...

She is STILL not working. Has NO desire to go to school for anything. No motivation to do a thing with her life. I tried to sit with her to look at college programs and she couldn't be more uninterested. She claims she is applying at places, but I sure never see her doing that. We fight daily. If we don't fight, it is because she is not here. I feel if you are not working and not going to school, you should be doing everything you can to contribute to the household. She contributes to the mess and then leaves. She has a bedroom she won't sleep in because it was such a mess. Instead of cleaning it, she sleeps with Connor on the couch in the living room. husband and I are put our foot down and told her to clean it yesterday. No more sleeping on the couch. She half-a**ed it. I went out to the living room this morning and again she is sleeping on the couch. I woke her up adn sent her upstairs. She is argumentative with everyone in the house but it is not HER, it is us (according to her anyway). Her attitude is awful, she treats everyone in the house like crap and we want her out badly. I do NOT want to live with her anymore. She is better on medications, but won't take them daily. My husband is ready to pack his things and leave.

I, of course, am having a really hard time because of Connor. If it wasn't for him, she would have never moved back here, nevermind still be here. That little boy is my world. She has NO way to care for him if I throw her out. She has no money so she wouldn't even be able to feed him and keep diapers on him. Yet I don't think she will do a dang thing in life if she continues to stay here and I will be supporting them both forever. I really do think she would end up leaving him with us because she knows she can't take care of him and as much as I adore and love my grandson, we don't want to raise another child. We love being grandparents but don't want to be guardians.

So I am stuck. This is a nightmare.

What do you do when precious grands are involved???


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Wow, such a tough spot to be in! I know there are programs for single woman with children getting back on their feet (usually domestic violence or drug related) but I cannot think of a single name right now. They help with clothing, shelter, childcare, jobs, education etc. Like a transitional living type deal. I'd search for one and tell her to apply.


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Comatheart - I think that is where we are at. She cannot qualify for any help living here and unfortunately, I don't see her becoming anything more than a welfare case right now.

It would be VERY different if she was nice to everyone and helped out around the house. She was supposed to be home cleaning her room yesterday and then we were going to look at college courses. I get home, she is not here and I have a mess to clean as usual. I lost it. Called her and told her to get her rear back to this house. While we were fighting, she was seriously going to leave and leave the baby with me. Excuse me????

When I bring up how we are still supporting her and Connor, she denies we buy anything for him. She has bought one box of diapers in the past couple of months and you would think it was the opposite. She claims I have only bought one box. HUH?? She asks what I have been buying for him - how about food, clothes, milk, the higher bills?? What about the car that I provided? The insurance that we continue to pay for because what if something happened to Connor and she needed to drive him? No answer.

And I know I played a HUGE part in this. As soon as she was doing good, I gave her the world. When I gave her the world, she reverted back to the lazy, entitled B that she was before. Enough is enough. Something has to change...


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Don't they have to be working when they are on probation? Think I will write her probation officer and let her stick a foot up her butt, too...


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When I bring up how we are still supporting her and Connor, she denies we buy anything for him.
Gas-lighting - and - revise history as SHE WANTS TO SEE IT! What the truth is doesn't matter and trying to get her to see the truth isn't going to work and is in fact and exercise in futility.

And I know I played a HUGE part in this. As soon as she was doing good, I gave her the world. When I gave her the world, she reverted back to the lazy, entitled B that she was before.
and on and on it goes, when you have had enough the chameleon changes to get her needs met and as soon as that is done - rip - off comes the mask you love and underneath the difficult child is seen for what it is again. When you are dealing with the difficult child with the mask you love, you give in but underneath the mask is reality that is never going to change.

As for the grandchild - if you are not willing to take on another child - putting the child up for adoption is the only real choice. Having the grandchild is a weapon the difficult child can and does use against you. Just as I know you probably will feel outraged at mentioning adoption - difficult child knows you feel that too. That's the hook that keeps on reeling you in.


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The only real solution I see is to move your energies to focusing on the grandchild - making that a priority and making difficult child secondary. That is going to make a huge confrontation that you must, in your mind, be prepared to lose the connection to the difficult child. With this new child in your life you have the opportunity to nurture, where nurturing the difficult child is IMPOSSIBLE because of her make up in personality. Refusing to let her take the child out into the community to also be used as a hook into others is protection for the child and from the difficult child. I hear you say: " I am caught up in a power struggle with difficult child and she is winning" How? She can get you to lose your cool, leaves you furious and unhappy, and she refuses to change her on life for the better, frustrating you. The end result, no matter how you fight it (and it is extremely hurtful) she is going to win and you are going to lose as long as there is involvement between the two of you. I see it in how you are unable to control your (rightful) rage in the gas-lighting she does. You have to find some way to move beyond it, get control of your emotions and emotional responses so that she can't win; can not pull you into the hateful angry exchanges. You can not change her - YOU MUST change yourself to back control of the situation.

Sure she was great for about 6 months and then that lazy, entitled attitude came creeping back...
This is the essence of what lies beneath the mask difficult child's wear. They are so cunning to getting us to except that real change is happening when, as we learn, there is never any REAL change just a flipping of masks - some we like - some we absolutely hate. It becomes infuriating to keep following for the same game over and over and when that ugly person again re-appears in our life, I think we easily escalate back to wear we were when last dealing with the ugliness that lies beneath. It hurts to be tricked over and over and we so desperately want to believe that this time things will be different - exactly what they want us to believe. So we become infuriated when we discover that once again we are dealing with a difficult child - just when, once again we had hope that things will change. What she does I call crazy-making because it makes you question yourself and your own sanity until you, in the end, don't even know what you really want. They have stirred your emotions to a place that you become unbalanced ( not mentally, just situational ) You get to a point where you don't even know what you want anymore. And that is the goal of the difficult child - to keep you unbalanced.

She is argumentative with everyone in the house but it is not HER, it is us (according to her anyway)
Just the fact that she tries to get the whole family to listen to and react to false statements should tell you who is unstable and as hard as it is, you must get to the point of understanding that the words coming out of her mouth are nonsense. Arguing with someone with deep hidden agendas that are morally wrong is just craziness in itself. Closing your eyes to it or arguing things that are truth on your part and not reality on her part just keeps the whole family in conflict - something the difficult child cherish. What a role - they get to dictate the mental and emotional life of the whole family. Talk about manipulation and control. Your daughter is sending these signals out big time!


one day at a time
PG, you are definitely between a rock and a hard place.

It sounds like she is not in recovery. She may/may not be using drugs but she has not learned how to live in the real world. That is really what true recovery is all about. Does she go to meetings? Is she working the steps? What is she doing to stay off drugs?

Sadly, unless she changes, she will not be able to take care of her child---at all or in any way that spells her being a good mother = mother that he needs. I can understand that you love him so much. You don't want him to have that type of mother or life either.

What are the options? I would explore them all, whatever they are, and then decide on a strategy and lay the groundwork.

You can't go on like this, and sadly, it is likely only to get worse and worse. One day you will look up and you ARE his parents/guardians/people who do everything for him---and she's lying in the bed asleep or gone.

Right now it's the devil you know, not the devil you don't know. You are in a transition with her, and you are learning something new that will be useful down the road.

It is so very true that if we do for them, they do not do for themselves. We have to step back and let them take the natural consequences of their actions. And when there is a grandchild, I can only imagine how hard that is and would be.

What is best for you and husband? What is best for Connor? What is best for difficult child? Are there any intersections on those paths of what is best for each of you?

I'm sorry. Please keep us posted. We are here for you, no matter what you decide to do. Warm hugs today.


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I held him in my arms and just cried this morning. I really dislike her for what she is doing to me - what she is forcing me to do and I told her so. I just don't even know what to do with her at this point. She is SO unmotivated and just comes up with excuse after excuse.

BUT, I need to tell husband that if something should happen and she cannot care for him, I cannot turn my back on him. I know it is not the life he wants, raising another child, but Connor is my blood. My heart and soul. And he is so attached to grampy and I, too. I don't think husband could, either, if it came down to it.


Well-Known Member know I understand.

The one thing we told Cory when he had his oldest was that we would never be held hostage by the child. So far he hasnt tried. We have done more for the oldest by far and when we found out that number two was on the way we were far from happy. It makes things so much harder on us.

I know we wouldnt have Cory living at our house right now while we moved out if it werent for the fact that we worried about the living situation of grandchildren. While I dont want to supply actual items I cant live with myself if he lived somewhere that was dangerous for them. It wasnt as bad when it was only his oldest because she didnt live with him full time but this youngest one does.

Tony is still of the opinion that we would take the kids if we had to but I think he is slowly realizing that I couldnt do that anymore. I can handle his oldest by myself for periods of time because she is older but I could never do a toddler again. Especially not a toddler who doesnt much like

You just have to make up your mind what you can do. What you are willing to do. Its going to be hard. I support whatever you do.


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Staff member
PG, I am so sorry to hear this turn of events. You are in such a tough place. I agree with COM to "decide on a strategy and then lay the groundwork."

I know exactly how you are feeling since I was in that same boat and you know the choice I made. I couldn't walk away from my granddaughter, since, like you, I had been very connected to her since birth and in most every way since her Dad died, I was the responsible party making sure she had what she needed. It was so difficult to make that choice, because I did not want to raise another child at that point and the choice also alienated me from my daughter in profound ways since I had to go to court for the guardianship.

I don't know what the right answer is for you PG. I so empathize with where you find yourself right now. Whatever you choose to do, you will most certainly have a tribe of supporters here on this site..............remember there is no right or wrong, only what you can do and what you are willing to do.

Sending prayers to you for guidance and grace as you walk this path.


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I hate to hear that! I know you love your grandchild and I hate it that difficult child is using that against you right now. All I can say is it is time for her to go. It is time for her to be a mom and run her own household. It is time for you to be a grandma. I know you don't want to raise your grandson and I understand only in the case of a severe need should parents ever be asked to raise a grandchild. Basically if it came down to the grands or foster care we would probably all cave.

I would give her a time limit for getting a job and a time limit for moving out. You are being nice to do that but I know you don't want your grandbaby anywhere unsafe.


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She is off to her probation office visit. She has been having to go every other week again. I think it is because she isn't working. Would be fine with me if she had to go every week. She needs to be held accountable.

And she had the gall to come to me and ask if I had any money. NOPE. I do, but there was no way I was telling her that or giving her a dime. She needs to know I am DONE footing the bill. I will make sure my grandson has what he needs but she will get nothing more from me.


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This is really a tough one. You are pretty young. We adopted Jumper when husband was 40 and I was 43 so you are young enough to do it. Whether you want to is another story. In case you do want to, get a lawyer and see what the chances are.

Aching for you and hoping for the best....hugs!


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She came home with a different attitude. Apparently PO told her she needed to get her koi together or else. Looks like I didn't even have to contact her. She admitted that she is echoing everything we have been saying. Hopefully the PO lit a fire under her butt...we will see...


Oh dear friend; I get it. I am much in the same place with my difficult child(no grandbaby, thank goodness) He is working but he has that similar unmotivated, sloppy lackadaisical attitude. He is treating our house like a place to sleep, rarely interacts with us, gives us no clue as to his whereabouts when he is not here and he doesnt offer to help around the house. And while I shouldn't be surprised ... I had hopes that being back in his clean warm home combined at age 22-1/2 would be a catalyst to finally grow up. It's like he is stuck at age 18- he has nothing to show for the last 4.5 years of his life. All up in smoke, literally.

He is still in such a risky place and I worry about throwing him from the frying pan into the fire. I have this fantasy that if I can keep him safe and sound and on a somewhat even keel that it will give him the chance to actually grow up. We hear so much about the brain not maturing until age 24 or so but I am not sure I can last that long.

I don't mean to hijack your post- I just want you to know that I get it. I also remember being strongly admonished on this very board 3-1/2 years ago that I had handed my difficult child the power in our relationship by placating him for so long - out of fear of losing him. Old habits die hard, I guess. It's a trade off for knowing he is safe. It's not wearing well.


one day at a time
PG, just so you know, we are here with you, like RE said no matter what. You can only do what you can live with. That is one of my mantras.

He is still in such a risky place and I worry about throwing him from the frying pan into the fire. I have this fantasy that if I can keep him safe and sound and on a somewhat even keel that it will give him the chance to actually grow up. We hear so much about the brain not maturing until age 24 or so but I am not sure I can last that long.

Sig, I so know where you are with your difficult child. I was there too. Everybody is different, but it has been only when we completely (at least for a long time) went hands-off that difficult child has finally started doing something different. Still not the way we would hope, for now, but different.

It is bewildering what it takes. We move forward in small measures because we keep thinking, this time, now it will be different, wait and see.

The years roll by. We watch and we wait for our 20-something young adult children/difficult children to get out of bed, get off the couch, put the video games down, put the dishes in the dishwasher, smile, say something pleasant, take just one initiative, have a conversation with us, go do SOMETHING.

Then, in my case, the worsening behavior, on and on until it is completely intolerable and unacceptable. That day, and I remember it well, that day I wrote up a one-page contract---I evidently needed some kind of "something in writing"---so it had a lesser chance of being twisted beyond recognition by him. I sat down, we went over it, and then, (thankfully), he tore it up in my face and walked out the door. I see now that if he had once again agreed to the terms, and still didn't comply with any of it, it would have taken me much, much longer to make the break.

But it was so very painful. And scary.

Today, he is working full time, Sig. I found out last night that he stayed in a motel for a week last week, but not sure what he is doing now. So it appears that he is taking most of his paychecks and staying in motels. Why doesn't he get an apartment? I have no idea. We have said we would pay the first month's rent. Or he could get his car fixed for $350 and live in that for a while, and also have a way to work. Why doesn't he?

I don't pretend to understand how his mind works. And I also know that I can't have that under my roof, ever again. He and I operate on completely different wave-lengths. I love him, and I want to see him, but I can't have his habits in front of me routinely, because it makes me literally crazy.

51% rule. But it is all a process, and you will do what you need to do when you need to do it, Sig and PG.

Hang in there. We are here for you both.


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I do think that age 25 is a magic number. Cory was doing so well once he hit that until drugs became involved when he went to TX. I have no doubt that wouldnt have happened here. He had plenty of chances but he was so against it. He just doesnt have the gumption to stick up for himself if not around us.