Now he's trying to make false accusations to the judge

[susiestar]

Gabi, here in the US there isn't any really good free place you can find without a lot of help. I will say that the possibility of being raped is less. Not knowing how large or strong your son is, I don't know how he would fare in the system if he were placed there. I do know that our system is more geared to protect, at least theoretically. I will say that things in the LA area are hugely overtaxed. I CAN tell you how I found a free placement in an amazing Boy's Home for my son when he was 14.

You are in a huge amount of danger, given the things your son is doing to hurt you. My son was obsessed with violence also, and wanted to harm females, mostly his little sister and myself. Even given that, none of the doctors was ever convinced we were headed toward a conduct disorder diagnosis or that he was a psychopath. I think he could have gone toward conduct disorder if we had not changed things when we did. The cops were sure we were headed to a point where my son was going to maim or kill my daughter or I, then if I was alive I was going to have to fight for my life to keep him off of me.

I chose to get my son out of the house at that point so that we would not end up there. I got a placement in an amazing Boys' Home, but my parents asked for a chance to turn him around before I sent him away. I felt I had to let them. My dad had just retired from teaching junior high (my son was junior high age) and if anyone could deal with my son, it was my dad. I know my parents thought I completely over-stated my son's problems and how bad things were. Their grandson could NEVER do anything that bad. A few weeks later I got a call from my mother. She was quite shaken and she apologized. She had no idea how bad things were with Wiz. She and my dad didn't give up though. Somehow they made it through. I am truly thankful that they did, even though none of us truly know what they did. Not even them. I do know that my Dad insisted that Wiz do HOURS upon HOURS of hard labor in the yard.

I will say that in the US you won't have the guarantee that he will be raped. I don't think anything can help if he is truly a psychopath or has conduct disorder. Very little truly can help, but there might be experimental programs in LA if they are anywhere. I would think the US has more to help than Spain does, given what you have said in some of your posts.

I will say that you should start to observe safety protocols in your own home. If you don't have your eyes on your drink at all times, throw it out and get a new one. Same for your food. Don't trust him not to poison you. He has already tried. If you can, set up security cameras so that you can watch over the house and have recordings of what happens, especially while you sleep. LOCK THE DOOR WHILE YOU SLEEP!!!!!!!!!!

I am sorry it has come to this.

 

[BusynMember]

Gabi, I agree that your son is behaving like a child psychopath. There isn't supposed to be child psychopaths but I adopted one who was age 11 and he was so scary he had to go and he didn't even try to kill us. He molested my littles and killed our dogs and he acted like he just loved our dogs. He killed them when we weren't there and cried and tried to blame others and we wanted to believe him because we loved him. When we found out about the sex we didn't think twice. Made a call. He was gone. That was not acceptable, sick or even extra sick. Hurting that way was NOT okay for ANY reason. We never saw him again and hope he is cured and doubt he is cured. Young child predators don't usually stop, but we pray.

I dont know if bringing your son to the US would work because he would need at least Medicaid, which I do not think your son could get. Our residential treatment centers take in the most severe children and give therapy, but many, if not most, are not cured when they get out. It is a safe place for them to be cared for and educated and given therapy when they can not live at home. I personally know a very dangerous kid who lived in one from age 12 until he aged out at 18. He can't live at home still. I am not sure where he is now. I do know he is still not well and unsafe to his younger sister.

If your son's birthdad has better resources in his country, maybe that is best. No child who had a conscience would try to kill anyone, especially a parent. If a child is that ill, he or she needs constant supervision out of the home. Our kids who bring us here are troubled, but I have been here over a decade. Maybe six actually tried to poison parents. It is very uncommon. That is way above dangerous.

I know Dad has not been a gem, but he has access to things you don't so I would forgive him and let him help. Nobody here knows if your son can be helped but ALL of us want you to be safe.

I hope you can come to a viable decision to get him help, for what it could be worth, and to protect yourself. You deserve to feel safe in your home. So please please take care of yourself!

 

[Baggy Bags]

You have all helped me take this much more seriously.

The doctors are trying to play it down because they can't offer a better alternative. I'm pretty sure that if we had other children in the house, they'd be saying something different.

The formal diagnosis, for now, is Conduct Disorder with possible psychotic tendencies (or traits?). The psychiatrists (late 30's and early 40's and highly recommended, each with about 10 years experience) both agree with this. But the psychologist (in his 60's and with over 30 years experience) isn't convinced. He thinks that it's more delusional, and a product of all the stress my son has been through in the last 8 months of running away, being caught, dealing with police, hurting his family... But this doesn't explain why he tried to kill me months before his first run-away attempt.

The psychologist, who is giving us family therapy, thinks I should basically just let him do whatever he wants (sleep all day, not bathe, not clean up his room...). For now, his education is on indefinite pause, and if I do what the psychologist is saying, I can see him just watching TV and eating all day. He'll get fat and more depressed as a result, and angrier, or suicidal again. It's soooo not in my nature to turn a blind eye like that. I have been a strict and demanding parent (not overly, but more than most), and for the longest time, he complied happily, and was a disciplined and focused young man and excellent student for it. Watching him lose that is so hard. But if I tell him to do anything, it's a fight.

We have a small farm with lots of animals. Moving would break what's left of my heart. Maybe it's my parental obligation to do whatever I can at this point, but he's been so hateful, it's hard to continue sacrificing everything for him.

I'll try what the psychologist is saying, as a last attempt to recover our relationship. Hubs will make sure I'm not alone with him in the house, and I'll be extra on guard about food, water, sleeping...

Again, thank you all so much for taking the time to read, write and care. I'm feeling so grateful for this community, and hope I can help others as you are all helping me.

 

[Copabanana]

Hi Gabi.

To me your thinking given all you have written of yourself and your circumstances makes sense. Sometimes we have to get where we end up (where we started) by exploring all the options out. Especially in a place like here where we do not know each other and our real lives.

First, to speak to the psychologist's approach. Uh oh I will get to that in a bit.

My own son, at 29, much older, has a 7year mj dependency. While our early life was a paradise for me he had had a horrendous start born drug exposed and abandoned in an orphanage. I was a permissive parent with the need to believe love could redeem. For a long while it did. Until it didn't.

I became controlling, angry and depressed as my perfect fantasy unraveled.

The thing is our kids do have lives and spirits and psyches apart from us. Sometimes surrender serves the only truly important and real thing. Our love for them.

I became increasingly demanding as my son faced his inner demons. I feel compassion for both of us now. For our great pain and because I was not there for him to the extent we both needed.

I panic and take stands. (You are gorgeous I say. Brilliant. He speaks 5 languages. Self taught. As if this matters. As if there is some cash register in the sky that will recalculate. He has body dysmorphic disorder. He works not at all. You see where I go here.)

I cannot bear it that my son in my mind does nothing. On the face of it in the sober living he is housebound, depressed and unmotivated.

The counselor he was seeing told me to back off. That if he finds himself it will be the life and the terms that come from him. Not me.

I think these guys are ill--maybe it is soul sick, maybe it is psychiatric. I don't know. I am seeing that now. I do not know. Surrender. For years I fought it. I believed if he worked he would feel better. And so it went.

All of which is to say that to me what the psychologist says makes sense. How he sees this and his approach. He is saying, lay down your arms. You cannot control this. Let your son come to health. Let him heal. Deal with your fears and pain yourself.

And I will add something here to myself: all the love is still there. The dream was real. And my love was a good and healing love. Except life had to happen. And their lives grow apart from us. Where we cannot any long feel we perform miracles.

Conduct disorder is a nothing, placeholder diagnosis. It is a descriptor of behaviors.

Psychologist is saying: believe in yourself as a mother that your son can again be whole and happy and at peace. And believe in him. He is psychotic right now. The normal rules cannot apply at least in the same way.

CD just means not complying to normative expectations. It speaks nothing about what is going on internally.

Of course the 2 young psychiatrists agree. It is by the book. A convention. A stupid book. The DSM 5 which means diagnostic statistical manual. You will find this stupid book online. It is not rocket science.

There is great wisdom and generosity in this way of thinking that of the psychologist.. And for me x great hope.

 

[susiestar]

I have to come out and say this. I don't mean to be argumentative with anyone, especially Copa. Copa is the sweetest, most patient person on the planet. I just never buy the "let them do what they want and they will end up okay in later years". Why? I have never seen it work in a case where the child was doing things that were clearly signs of not psychotic behavior but of psychopathic behavior or murderous/maiming behavior done on purpose. You don't put mercury in someone's glass by accident. You just don't.

I went to high school with a kid who's mother was a psychologist. She wrote books espousing what your family therapist is telling you. Her son was a total nightmare. He only learned to leave me alone because I proved that I could be a whole lot meaner in far sneakier ways. He made victims of a whole lot of people and got away with it because his mother would psychobabble the school out of knowing what to do with him.

He wasn't the only kid I saw like that. I have seen quite a few of my kids' peers who were treated with that sort of philosophy. If they had true mental illness, conduct disorder or something more serious, that did nothing.

Sadly, the question is "What will help?" If it is drug addiction, you have to make it impossible for him to get drugs. That is far harder to do than you would think. If it is mental health, you may need long term treatment. That can help or at age 18 he could walk away and refuse all treatment. In some US states they can refuse mental health treatment as early as age 13 or 14. A parent or guardian cannot force them to see a doctor, take medication for a mental illness, or participate in therapy. Sadly, the child still has to have a parent's permission to get Tylenol or a bandaid at school at that same age. If the child is a psychopath, I have no idea what will help. I cannot tell you what will help other than to make sure that YOU are safe.

Be VERY aware that an IEP will NOT pay for residential treatment. If placement in a residential facility is determined to be the best Free and Appropriate Public Education in the Least Restrictive Environment (often called FAPE in LRE as you go through the process) for the safety of the child and everyone else, then the school will pay for the educational portion only. They will NOT pay for all of the fees. If your son qualifies for medicaid (state children's insurance) either due to your income or due to a waiver based on the severity of his problems, he may get some of a residential stay paid for by Medicaid. We had vastly better luck getting Medicaid to pay for inpatient care for my son than we did getting private insurance to pay. Shorter waiting for a bed with Medicaid also.

There is something to be said for not giving up everything that is meaningful that you have built up for a child that may or may not be helped by whatever you can figure out to help him. You matter too. I once said that I was not going to sacrifice my other children's childhood on the altar of my oldest child's mental illness. There was something that the "experts" wanted us to do that was over the top and would have me dragging my other kids in to the city two more times a week when we already had to be there twice a week. Four days a week to make a 45 minute drive (we lived in a different city and state) with 3 kids ages 1, 5 and 9? I don't think so. They need some time at home to be kids. I also don't think parents should sacrifice everything for a child.

If the parents completely fall apart because they have sacrificed everything for a child, the child is left with nothing. You just end up with a child in crisis AND parents in crisis rather than just a child in crisis. The child is actually in a bigger crisis because the home is less stable. From what you have told me, the moving process was NOT the start of your son's problems, but your son has manipulated things to make it seem that way. That is my take on it. Sure moving is hard on everyone, I don't discount it. But I think your son was acting out long before that, he was just able to hide it because life was routine and you were doing routine things. Now that your actions are not so routine, it has been harder for him to hide what he is up to. If that makes sense. Given that his attempt to hurt you predates the moving process by a great deal, I think the move is a smoke screen.

You may need to just take some time and really get in touch with your instincts. Do whatever centers and balances you. Then make a decision about this and go from there. Just don't forget to count yourself and your husband into the equation. Your son's needs are very far from the only needs that matter. Very, very far. And safety MUST be the top priority.

 

[BusynMember]

I agree that Copa is kind and sweet. In this case I agree she isn't correct though. I can't imagine any of my kids hitting me let alone seriously trying to kill me. Just because the DSM, which is constantly changing and not perfect, says achild can't be a psychopath until age 18 doesn't mean it is true. I lived with an 11 year old psychpath. His actual diagnosis was severe reactive attachment disorder. If you look up the traits, they are the same pretty much as an adult psychopath. He killed beloved pets and forced babies to have sex with a pocket knife. He lied and stole and tortured those weaker than himself. This is psychopathic behavior which we largely didnt know about he until until he turned 13. He convinced us that neighbors killed the dogs. And my littles were too terrified of him to say what he was doing to them. After we found out he went to child's lock down for young sexual predators. He was dangerous. Even in there, he tried to perp.

Although the boy had an IEP school did not pay for residential treatment before he was caught, although he was problematic at school. School would not pay and it wad not free. Nothing in the U.S. is free. Medicaid did pay some and we had to pay child support to the state until the adoption was ended. It was not cheap. It was NOT cheap!!

I am not sure that all states or any states would offer that much to your son. We have a new President now and he is trying hard to undercut Obamacare and he doesn't like "imigrants." in my opinion he's flipping scary. You can't know what services will be in place here in the near future. Nobody knows. Healthcare is changing and not for the better. Healthcare is in very poor shape right now. And insurance subsidies...some states are better than others, but they could all disappear soon. Our state has little insurance coverage help.

I stick with your sons Dad being your best option. JMO of course. I don't think you should give up your farm and precious animals and friends. Your son is very sick and was homicidal at least once. You could give your whole life up and he may not be better. You matter too.

This is just my own experience and opinions. In my heart I would hate to see you give up your entire life. There are other ways. Take what you like from all advice, this too, and leave the rest. The decision is yours and we will support you.

Love and light.

 

[Copabanana]

The beauty of this forum is that it is not about right or wrong. Each of us is different. Different children. Values. Cultures. Experiences. And as important each mother here lives with the reality of her choices. I would not presume to advocate a course because I will not be living with the result.

I had an unstructured household. There have been experts that said this helped my son by minimizing stress on him. Others including M my SO believe it hurt my child by not requiring more. I am sure each of you have a judgement.

I am trying to support this mother. She knows the dangers. She has been a loving and conscientious parent. All 3 professionals believe psychosis is likely involved. There has been a suicide attempt. There are real risks to this child. Her child. To her.

But to project onto her our circumstances, our children, our diagnoses, our tragedies and outcomes is natural but not helpful. They can be illustrative of a panoply of possibilities but only that.

 

[BusynMember]

I was very low key too. I'm sure many thought I didn't crack down enough on my kids. I did not spank, over punish or get crazy if my kids were disrespectful. At least I didnt until drugs came into play....not pot. Serious drugs. And Bart was always challenging. Bart went to therapy but maybe I let him get away with too much. Only after i felt threatened, when he was 20, did I make him leave. So I don't judge being permissive. I'm sure I was. It was just dumb luck that Sonic and Jumper were always so well behaved!

My issue here is that this kid tried to kill his mother in a cold, calculated way, not even in a rageful impulsive attack. Psychotic or not, it is unsafe to live with a child who would think about killing you then do it. That brings his behavior to a new level. It makes him unsafe.

My concern is that he will harm her or even kill her. We love our kids, but I don't believe we need to put our own lives in peril. There are people who parent from afar. I know a few who had to.

Everyone here takes our experiences with us when we give our two cents and all the posters decide what works for them and what doesn't. Your very intelligent and creative mind comforts many. You are very needed here...your take on things. You are appreciated.

I do hope you did not think I was judging you for not being strict as I would also be judging myself. I was very relaxed, maybe too much so, in my parenting style. I still am chill with my adult kids and am very laid back...don't stick my nose in their choices, praise them, even this wedding is 100 percent what my daughter wants to do. I am not that mommwho interfers or is bossy....not at all. But I think you did a very good, steller job with your son, Copa. He is difficult. You didn't hit him or belittle him. You loved him with all you have and he loves you.
No criticism from me on laid back parenting. I hope your son comes to appreciate sober living. You both deserve it. He seems to be improving. Kudos!

 

[Triedntrue]

This is a very difficult and complicated situation. I feel for you and agree you need to make sure you are safe and your husband is safe. That is a priority. As far as coming to the U.S. i agree that there might be more options but i would make sure your son was going to have access before you committed yourself to the financial burdens that a move would entail. It is going through changes. I know my son also went through a lot of diagnoses when he was young. I am wondering if they have done an mri or any other test to make sure there is not a tumor or something physical involved. If i am reading this correctly it seems like it all happened so fast. I read an article recently about brain scans being used to determine what kind of medications would work best. I hope you are able to find a safe resolution.

 

[Copabanana]

As I understand Gabi's story everything changed one year ago. That is when the running away and drug use began. And the psychosis, murderous rage and self-harm too. Before this son seems to have been a sensitive and well bonded child without real problems. He helped out in the family community project and taught art workshops. He has a business so to speak selling food in a farmer's market. He has a job. Still. He has a lot of friends it seems. Still.

Something happened.

Tired mama raises an important point. This could be related to brain pathology. A tumor. Even small seizures.

And grandma is bipolar.

He is changing hormonally. This is the age that some mental illness can kick it.

The mj use may have kicked in as a means to cope with symptoms. We do not know. And then heavy use made everything worse.

Then the stress of all this on him of the running. And the fact that he may be suffering from something that he does not will or understand. Over which he has no control.

Nobody thinks Gabi should be sacrificed to her son. But I am saying that by her own efforts and support here she has turned over every stone to find her way. She has a veritable treatment team assembled.

This is step by step.

I had not heard of the use of brain scans in prescribing medication. Here they are doing genetic testing to prescribe psychoactive medication by use of a scraping of inner cheek tissue I think which you send in by mail.

 

[Baggy Bags]

What Copabanana says about the positive things are all true, except for the having lots of friends part. He's always had a hard time making and keeping friends, which is part of the problem. I took him out of school to homeschool because he was being bullied badly. He *does* charm the pants of most adults though (at least in first impressions), especially young (20-30yo) adults. My hope has always been that once he is old enough to really hang out with the older crowd, he'll finally feel like he has friends.

Also, just to clarify, can't remember off the top of my head who said it, but we haven't moved. We've lived here my son's entire life. Perhaps it was confused with his running away.

The whole process probably started when he started smoking weed in April 2016, but didn't really become a problem until he was smoking almost daily, or daily, in June of last year. One of the first things I read when I started researching, was about cannabis-induced psychosis. Nobody believed me, because so few people seem to know about it. It's been so eye-opening to hear so many people talk about it here. I am more and more convinced that this, which is what clicked for me in the beginning, is a big part.

I'll definitely ask the doctors about the brain scans.

I'm sure that projecting our own stories onto others here is something that always happens. What other advice can we give really? It's all very valuable information to me - from your personal stories, to the advice, to the hard facts... all of it.

 

[Baggy Bags]

It was actually an okay day today. We traveled to another town for his second karate class - psychologist recommended he take up martial arts.
Then we went to the festival he wanted to work at. I think he enjoyed the music but there were some girls there he knows who weren't very friendly and that got him down.
When we're out and about, it all tends to be easier than when we are at home.

 

[Copabanana]

Good.

I like this psychologist. I do martial arts too! Brazilian jiu-jitsu. I like it. I am the oldest student by decades.

 

[Baggy Bags]

Wow! That's awesome that you do BJJ! Good on you!
It's one of the most kick-ass workouts from what I've heard.
I weight train and teach dance.

Tried to PM you, would love to know more about your story, but I see that you keep extra private.
From reading about so many people's stories, they get mixed up.
With time, I imagine, I'll start keeping them straight.

I think I'm going to delete this thread in a bit. Just realized that anyone can get on and see it.

 

[Baggy Bags]

I hope you do it! Travel to Brazil, and on your own, wow! You got your BJJ skills to keep you safe
Maybe you can come visit me on your way down or back! Mi casa es tu casa.

I'm very dependent on my partner too. Traveling alone for me would be very daunting.
But good for you for following your passion, even when it means facing some fears.