Opinions on home schooling difficult child because he does not get along with others

[PlainJane]

I just want your opinions. difficult child is diagnosed autistic and adhd (siggy might not be current). Dr thinks there may be some under lying personality disorder and might fit ODD diagnosis but doesn't want to officially label at this time, and I think personality disorders cant be diagnosed until adulthood. husband and I agree with this concern.

difficult child is not cruel or the kind of kid that hurts babies or animals thank goodness. Actually he does very well with animals and babies. His issue is he is rude rude rude and it seems he doesn't even realize it. Which I figure is the aspie type behavior. He doesn't get why other kids don't like him. We try to help him but he is loud and harsh when he talks and says very mean (but true things). He just started 2nd grade and his peers either avoid him, or have attacked him. Today on the bus another student hit him, and difficult child keeps saying he didn't do anything wrong. I really don't think he understands why he is being rude. I will be talking to the bus driver tomorrow, but we went through this last year and not that the school excuses the other student behavior but difficult child is constantly targeted because other kids think he is mean first.

I dread sending him to school because of this. I know he is going to end up getting harassed worse and worse as the years go on. I tell him when someone hits hit to hit them back but I think its some startling for him he just freezes...

He's not challenged enough to be on a special needs bus or in a class with other kids with challenges. He is very bright and is social, but just doesn't go about it properly sometimes. Some of you may or may not care for this character, but Sheldon from Big Bang is a great example. How he just says rude things but they are true and he is just being honest and matter of fact. difficult child does that only when he does it to another kid, sometimes their response is aggression.

Would you consider home schooling? I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm sending him into the lions den every day. I'm sick over it.

 

[Castle Queen]

I can't say if home schooling is right for him, or you. Some parents aren't cut out for, or don't have the ability/time to, teach at home. And some children take better to it than others. I just wanted to comment that just because he is bright, doesn't mean he can't get an IEP or get accommodations to help him. Being bullied and/or ostracized socially can and will affect his learning..and this is the guiding principal in qualifying for an IEP. You might want to try this before pulling him out of school to see how the school might be able to help. Other parents that have been there done that will probably chime in on their experiences with homeschooling. He certainly does sound Aspie.

 

[BusynMember]

I have a son on the autism spectrum and school was what made him almost normal as an adult. He got special supports, a special education class for all kinds of children (not just children on the spectrum...great teacher too!), social skills, study skills and actually caught up with a group of smart "nerds" and special needs kids who hung together at lunch and were friends throughout school. If i had kept him home, he wouldn't have had any help learning how to live without me. Now he has his own place, a part time job and relies on special adult supports if he needs them (honestly, he barely needs them). Disability supplements his part-time job. He is a very happy young man. I don't think a child with autistic spectrum should be at home for school nor do I think he should go to school without help like a child who is not on the spectrum. There is a happy medium that is very helpful. The school, once in high school will start arranging his adult life too and this won't happen at home. My son just seems to do better and better every year. I'm not sure all autistic children can learn this, but my son is actually quite appropriate when speaking to others now. This was not the case at a younger age. He did not speak, except to echo, until he was 4 1/2. He did not potty until then either. Now he can pass as maybe just being a little different. Or a little shy, although that is changing.

My son went to school in a special small bus. He was not exposed to the bullies on the ride up and back and he enjoyed his ride. There was an aide on the bus. Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids are very naive and this persists throughout their lives. They need more protection than other children because of their disability and the IEP should make it clear an aide is to watch him so he isn't bullied. The aide doesn't have to stand near him, just watch. Also, my son did great in a Special Education class for reading and math. He was mainstreamed for the rest, with an aide. All this helped him feel safe and he did quite well academically and was never picked on. He has no bad memories of school.Naivety is an Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) trait. At age 21, my son would probably still let a stranger live in his apartment...and get robbed blind. This is where adult supports help him. His caseworker would find out and never allow it to keep happening. My son is also very poor at lying so you find out everything he wants to hide...lol.

Your son's rudeness is a function of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), most likely. He doesn't understand how to talk to other people. He doesn't realize perhaps that he is being inappropriate. This is where the school can help. You've got to get an advocate and insist on the right kind of IEP and supports for your boy. Forget labels of ADHD and ODD. They are both a part of the spectrum because spectrum kids are easily frustrated and also have hyperactivity and attention issues. Try to focus on getting him the proper help for Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD).j

To me he does not sound like he has an impending personality disorder. He sounds classic Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). I do have one son with many traits of a personality disorder and he was manipulative and mean from a very early age. It was way different than Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). In fact, he was a gifted child intellectually. Don't think personality disorder with your child.

Good luck!

 

[PlainJane]

Thank you both. I should have said that my son does have and IEP though we had to fight to keep it in place for this year because he does not exhibit any academic need. We did seek an advocate through POAC, which might only be in our state, and we kept the IEP in place for this year with social goals.

But none of this matters when he is on he bus or playground. None of this (IEP) can force other kids to talk to him or not get nasty with him when he annoys them. There are several areas of "uncontrolled" environment in school, where teachers are not watching. And this stuff happens.

My son can definitely be manipulative.

He can be very cruel intentionally if he is looking for revenge. He's not the kind of kid to just punch someone. He is the kind of kid to make up a believable story about someone to get them in trouble. We do have to be careful whenever he complains for being bullied, because he often leaves out anything he did, but I can say, when the truth comes out, as it has in several incidents last year, difficult child did not start it (or at least didn't realize he did/ was being rude without knowing) but once the other kid started bullying him, he would do various things back to them like poke them, throw something at them...but leave this stuff out when telling us.

The issue that escalated to some kid hitting him today, I suspect that we will discover that my son helped to escalate it but did not "start" it. He is not mean first. He's not that kind of cruel that he starts trouble for fun. But he can be malicious when he thinks someone starts with him, but he seems to be missing the part that he said socially inappropriate things that upset the other person.

I don't know whats going on with my son and I'm his mom. Its such a helpless feeling. Some days I'm like "omg that's so aspie. He's aspie" and some days I'm like "that's so NOT aspie, that's very socially manipulative and something else"...I think the dr is a bit confused too.

I agree on him not getting the proper education at home especially since I am not a teacher by trade. But I just cant sit by and send him off to school knowing year ofter year of this leads to depression, isolation...these teens that try to commit suicide...how many of them are bullied and unhappy at school? He is so young and I cant watch him be destroyed year after year...imagine how all this kids would feel if they never had to go to school and be made to feel worthless? Some of them would still be alive...its a form of abuse if a student is bullied. I don't want him to go through that.

 

[BusynMember]

I actually would take him for a neuropsychologist evaluation. These neuropsychologists (not neurologists...two different animals) tend to be extremely thorough and clever diagnosticians. They test from 6-10 hours (any that doesn't test that long is not probably going to do a complete job so find another one). You and your son need to know what is really wrong, where his strengths and deficits are, what he can control and what he doesn't understand, and advice on how best to help him. I think neuropsychs are the best diagnosticians that exist right now.

Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) children should not be totally alone in a bus or on the playground. They are more defenseless against bullying than even other normal but shy kids. They have no idea how to defend themselves other than lashing out, then THEY get into trouble. It doesn't make sense and doesn't teach them anything.

They lack the skills needed to take care of themselves appropriately and can break into a rage if teased because of a compromised ability of self-control. Your son does not sound like a mean kid. He is reacting over-the-top to being picked on, which is very Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). They can learn how to cool off, but it takes a lot of interventions and it doesn't sound as if he is getting any. His passing grades do not mean he doesn't need interventions. That's an excuse most school districts use. They don't like to accord our kids special accomodations. One teacher told me it is simply too much work for them to do special things just because our children have a disability. Cry me a river.

You need to get the private neuropsychologist done then call your states Dept. of Public Education and get in touch with your district's special needs advocate. The school is getting away with murder and they will continue to do so until you bring in some muscle (an advocate who can't be fooled and knows the state's laws).

Do not try to advocate for him yourself. The schools, in general, don't pay attention to parents. Advocates are free and all states have them. They do NOT work for the school district. They are your child's best friend...and yours.

Good luck

 

[PlainJane]

Midwest mom, thank you so much for your reply. It is very helpful. Yes, my son is not a mean person. Its so hard to explain. I have tried to look as some of his actions from a different perspective lately. Often he appears to pick on his brother my twisting or rhyming his works (like his brother will say "I'm superman" and difficult child might say "what? you're super monkey" or "what? you're super can?" and difficult child is laughing and my other son is getting so mad. We ask difficult child why he does that and he says he's being funny. And when we point out that no one is laughing and that his brother is showing signs of annoyance (we go over those signs ever time) difficult child get upset...like he really didn't realized it wasn't "funny"...

Its that kind of stuff that can easily be taken as him teasing, but it really seems to be more lack of reading social cues.

Anyway, thank you again for your post. I will be taking difficult child to school tomorrow and talking with the principal. difficult child goes to a pretty crumby school (we will be moving as soon as we can, might be a few years though) and while his previous principal and vice principal knew difficult child (in a school of 1200 kids) because of the past bus issues and bullying...both were replaced over the summer (management is constantly changing, this school's staff is unstable) so now I have to start all over again and hope the new management isn't going to make this any harder than it already is.

 

[BusynMember]

What about getting an advocate? You'll even need one at your new school.

The things your son is doing seem VERY Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD).

 

[LittleDudesMom]

I was in your place wondering if home schooling was the route to go. But in the end, the biggest issues difficult child had to overcome (along with the learning disabilities, school anxiety, etc.) was socialization. His social skills were bill. I made the decision to keep him in school in the hopes that he would gain some ground by learning he wasn't the star of the show.....

There were some really tough times, but in the end he had two or three kids that he called friends and it worked for him because he didn't know anything else. I would make sure that I planned social stuff with one or two kids so that difficult child felt part of a unit. It's a tough decision....

Sharon

 

[confuzzled]

(MAJOR ASSUMING RIGHT NOW)...

childrens specialized often runs a social skills group for boys in your sons age group and it can be very helpful. they take most insurance and Medicaid as well. I don't think you need a formal referral (unless your ins. needs one). there are a variety of other services available too--individual stuff, therapies, etc. it would be very much worth a phone call to find out if they have anything useful for you.

as I said, major assuming. :=)

hope it gets better for your son, and you too!

 

[BusynMember]

jane, your son is trying to be autism funny...lol. I don't believe he is trying to be mean to your other son. My son likes to use puns and rhyme words too

 

[SuZir]

I really don't know what to say. On other hand I'm a firm believer that we have to teach our kids to live in this world and that kids with social difficulties need more opportunities to train their skills than those without. On the other hand only thing one learns from constant failure in that area is that they don't fit. And often they learn harmful coping mechanisms and ways tyo try to interact, lose their self confidence and get traumatized.

While my kid's PTSD resulted also from one bigger incident, I'm sure it is greatly influenced also a decade of severe bullying at school. And while he does have some innate problems with social skills, his problems now as an adult are at least as much caused by all those negative peer relationships.

Mine was not only bullied at school, he had also other issues and he started running away from school already at kindergarten (in fact at his first day before noon) and he was a severe habitual truant at third grade and on. I have always been against home schooling and never would had considered it with my children before my son's school issues. And he was never officially home schooled but he basically went through school by self study and taking exams from mid school on and it was official when he was at High School and lived already few hundred miles away from his school. He had a day at school every six weeks, took exams and turned in some work, and that was the least stressful time at his school career ever.

If I could do it all again, I would have taken difficult child out of school when he was seven or eight at the latest. Maybe tried school again for mid school after focusing on social and peer skills in more structured environment till that. For him the sports were socially better for long time, though the incident that really hurt him happened also in there. But when they were younger, elementary school age, it was great. Doing things with other kids, but adults there all the time supervising and having zero tolerance for bullying. It was at mid school age, when they were left more alone to locker room etc. that things got worse for difficult child. And it maybe wouldn't had, had he not been so good at that sport. Jealousy can be a .