Saw this on Facebook today. Harsh but true.

Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by lovemyson1, Jun 30, 2017.

  1. lovemyson1

    lovemyson1 Active Member

  2. lovemyson1

    lovemyson1 Active Member

    Sorry maybe I can't post not sure why it's not coming up.
     
  3. lovemyson1

    lovemyson1 Active Member

    There it is!
     
  4. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    Curious....do you agree with this?
     
  5. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I don't agree with this lms. I have seen this disease in action, watched many people buried and families ruined. It is a disease every bit as much as other diseases. I know it is often hard to feel sorry for the addict like we do the cancer patient but it is still a disease. Fortunately our society is starting to treat it as such.
     
  6. Crayola13

    Crayola13 Active Member

    I think it is a disease for those who have been addicted for many years. I also think the underlying conditions that lead to substance abuse are diseases, such as anxiety, chronic pain, etc. People are self-medicating for a variety of reasons. I think the real disease is the feeling people try to block out when using drugs.
     
  7. Blighty

    Blighty Member

    Regarding the video
    "Weak" is such an emotive word !
    After all, sick people are often weak, immune systems can be weak, babies are weak compared to adults, very old people are often weak, the poor are weak ... it does not mean we hold it against them and look down on them just because they are weak! Society should try to support them to improve their situation. In a similar context an addict is weak just as any person with an illness is. But in the video it seems that they want to use the word to shame all addicts in general that they should not need support.

    I think addiction is like a disease. I am sure there are many shades of gray in people's differing situations.

    What I get from the video is that this guy seems to be very angry.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017
  8. lovemyson1

    lovemyson1 Active Member

    To be honest, I'm not really sure RN. I've seen people addicted to drugs who made a decision to stop. So with that, it seems to be a choice. I also work in a hospital and see sick people who have no choice but to die because of their disease. I'm not a doctor but this is just my experience and I do agree that this video is angry and over the top but I found it somewhat true in a much kinder way. I know that my son made a decision to use and a decision to stop. That's my reality. My number one wish/prayer is that there was no such thing as addiction, it hurts & destroys so many people and it's terribly sad. So I wonder, is it addiction or is it a choice?
     
  9. ksm

    ksm Well-Known Member

    Yes, my child made a decision to drink and use drugs. But, she did not have a choice when it came to being born to a woman with drug and alcohol addictions. And she didn't have a choice when she was placed in foster care, or separated from her older brother when he was sent off to bio dad.

    All the genetics, all the childhood trauma, all her insecurities, was not her choice.

    Life is hard for her...and hard for me to see her struggle.

    I agree, I just want to scream... "Just stop!!" But it doesn't work...

    Ksm
     
  10. ksm

    ksm Well-Known Member

    Bob Newhart-Stop It

    This is a classic Bob Newhart skit. Worth watching...wish therapy sessions could work like this. Funny...

    Ksm
     
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  11. lovemyson1

    lovemyson1 Active Member

    Haha! Cute! And if only it were that simple!! "Stop it!!!" Thanks for the laugh KSM! Wishing you and your daughter all the best!
     
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  12. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    I can totally relate the the mad friend and what he was saying.

    In the beginning I thought it was a "choice" for my son too. But at some point I feel it stopped being a choice for him. I know there is no way he wanted to be the person he had become but he was unable to stop. I know that he did not want to hurt us or himself. I know that he was not a bad person but a good person doing bad things.

    To me the only "choice" is to be so sick of living it that you CHOOSE to put your heart and soul into beating it and stop feeding the addiction.

    Addiction is a pre-existing condition.

    It is just "there" lying in wait for some people. Like my son who struggles with substance abuse and like my mother who was an alcoholic.

    The AMA has deemed addiction as a "disease".

    When I came to terms with that it made more sense for me. It doesn't make it any easier though.
     
  13. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    I agree with this completely. My best friend since kindergarten is an alcoholic. So is her brother. So was her father. In school and even later, she and I partied together. I went out with her all the time. I matched her drink for drink. I did not become an alcoholic.

    My son has issues with at least pot. His biological father was an alcoholic. So was his grandfather.

    Sure. It is their choice to drink or do drugs. I've often wondered why anyone would make the choice to drink when they knew they were predisposed to alcoholism. I've wondered why anyone would make the choice to use drugs when they know drugs are addictive...physically and psychologically. But then, I smoked for years knowing cigarettes were addictive. I quit. I quit several times. I was the kind of person who could go months without buying cigarettes, just bumming one now and then in a social situation. I enjoyed them, but I didn't crave them...so I thought I never would. Right now I've been smoke free for seven months. Typing this, I want a cigarette. So...am I addicted to cigarettes? Maybe. Is THAT addiction a disease? Maybe. But in my case it's like a cold vs. the heroin addicts cancer.
     
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  14. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Ksm I couldn't agree more. My daughter had no choice being born to a woman with addictions either. Her genetics to a large extent dictate what her future is. We try as hard as we can to negate those issues but some are too strong to overcome.
     
  15. Albatross

    Albatross Well-Known Member

    Lordy, how many times have I imagined that therapy session!

    I struggle with the disease model too. I wonder to what extent it deprives addicts and alcoholics of taking responsibility for their choices.

    I have never felt the overwhelming desire to drink or pick up that an addict feels, and I can't comprehend the foundation that is laid for someone like ksm's child or Nancy's child, with so many cards stacked against them. Their entire worldview is warped, and escaping it is perhaps the only model they know. Their genetics dictates it as well. They are predisposed in so many ways.

    It certainly isn't as simplistic as "weakness," like the video implies.

    But I also think it discounts the addict's power to choose their own course when we simplify it by labeling it a "disease."

    I liken it to a person with diabetes who knowingly and willingly lines up for the all-you-can-eat cake buffet, or the person who knows she is allergic to strawberries but eats them anyway.

    The condition is there, but it is exacerbated by choice.

    I do believe that the only time an alcoholic or addict has any control is BEFORE they pick up.

    I can have a drink, or several, then say I've had enough, or say I may want another but I don't want to deal with the consequences tomorrow.

    An alcoholic can't do that. Once they pick up, the reptile brain takes over.

    That AA saying is so true..."One drink is too many, and 1,000 is not enough."

    In that sense it is a disease. They are wired differently. They are not like me.

    But I think the alcoholic or addict needs to acknowledge that characteristic, and accept what happens when they drink or use.

    I feel very sad that an addict must go through their entire life hearing the siren's call to pick up again. Unless they find other ways to silence that call, they will fight it all of their lives.
     
  16. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    It is a preventable illness to me.

    My two youngest kids are heavily steeped in genetic addiction. Sonics birthmother was a severe addict. He was her fifth drug exposed baby. She was high when she gave birth and crack was in his system. Jumpers birthfather has been in prison for drugs and an armed robbery to get drug money. From early on they were told it would be risky for them to experiment with drugs, even to drink.

    Sonic never tried anything. No interest. Jumper has a drink now and again, but seems to have no need to drink often or to get drunk. Neither smoke cigarettes.

    If you dont try substances you wont get the illness of addiction. If you do, and its in the genes, you are at high risk.
     
  17. lovemyson1

    lovemyson1 Active Member

    Yes, this is my thoughts exactly. I'm very very very big on accountability. Well said Albatross.
     
  18. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I couldn't disagree with this video more. This is a very typical response from those who do not deal with addiction in the family. Yes, it is a choice to take the first drink, shoot up the first time, etc. However, those with addiction genes aren't able to stop where others without those genes can stop very easily.

    Also, comparing NA to an addiction is another terrible misconception. How can anyone equate going to meetings regularly to stay sober with someone in active heroin addiction? NA is a recovery method that works for some and not for others.

    There is a terrible bias in that video that addiction is a choice and any addict can simply say no and walk away from drugs. Those of us who have seen how hard our loved ones have to work at recovery know that it is a daily struggle that they will have to fight the rest of their lives.

    Any addiction specialist will tell you that alcoholism/addiction is a progressive disease that will end in one of three ways: institutionalized, prison. or death. There is hope for recovery but for most addicts it takes more than to just say no.

    ~Kathy
     
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  19. PiscesMom

    PiscesMom Active Member

    I read somewhere that addiction was about regulating emotions. Not a healthy way to be sure, but the addict doesn't have that ability. The man in the truck doesn't "need" to use, so how can he judge? Yes, I know it is so frustrating, and it is tempting to just get angry, but it doesn't work. I know, because I have tried getting angry at addicts. You get nowhere, maybe you make things worse?
    I recommend al anon. It felt so good not to be angry anymore when I started going, back in the day. I don't go anymore...
    My ex sister in law has this video on her fb page. Her son (she loves him so much, truly) just began a lengthy prison sentence - something about crystal meth. I wish she understood addiction better.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
  20. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I have thought about this a lot more since I originally posted and wanted to share some more thoughts. First of all, LMS1, thank you for sharing the video with us. Even though I don't agree with it, it sparked discussion which I think is great.

    The more I thought about this video, the angrier I got. Comparing addiction to cancer and implying that one sufferer deserves sympathy and understanding while the other is just a whiny baby takes away all responsibility that people make regarding their health. Why is it okay to feel sympathy for a lung cancer patient if they have smoked for thirty years? Or to feel sympathy for a person with diabetes who is severely overweight and makes bad choices about what they eat?

    It's not that I blame people who get cancer and don't feel bad for them. My point is asking why people blame those with addiction issues for their problems and not people that have health problems brought on by lifestyle choices.

    There is still a big stigma in this country about addiction and the video plays right into all of those stereotypes.

    One of the main components of the twelve-step recovery program is developing a sense of accountability for one's actions. One of the biggest changes that I see in my daughter is that she if fond of saying, "I own this." She no longer tries to blame others for her problems and takes responsibility for fixing her mistakes.

    So I am not saying that addicts don't have to accept responsibility for their addiction and behavior. I am saying that for most it takes more than just waking up one day and saying I will no longer drink or take drugs. It takes recovery support of some kind and will be a lifelong struggle because it is a disease . . . not simply a lifestyle choice.

    I'll get off my soapbox now. I would love to hear what others think . . . those that agree and disagree with the video.