So tired of being hit and objects flying at me

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Dara, Dec 11, 2007.

  1. Dara

    Dara New Member

    I have had it! He is constantly hitting me throwing things at my head. Nothing works! No form of discipline stops this behavior! The only thing I can do is put him in his crib (because he cant hurt himself in there) take out all pillows blankets, lovies etc and wait it out. He has started back with the hitting himself banging his head everywhere...the whole nine yards. He is so full of rage. I dont get it! I wish I could understand what exactly is making him so mad. SOmetimes it is him not getting his way and sometimes it just happens. THere are times where you know what you are about to do is going to cause mass terror but it is something that has to be done like leaving the house or changing a diaper things like that. THen there are other things that set him off randomly and there is no rhyme or reason it is just his mood.
    You cant help him with anything. For instance: he got a cute little laptop for Hanukkah from my inlaws, he needs help figuring some things out but will either hit your hand, scream, or throw the lap top if you try and help him but then he does the same thing when he cant figure it out. It is a catch 22. I am so frustrated and going out of my mind with this stuff!
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Has he been evaluated by a neuropsychologist? in my opinion this child should defintely be looked at again for high functioning Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). If not, perhaps he has a mood disorder, but his "quirks" remind me so much of my little guy when he was that age, plus his unexplained outbursts that I didn't "get" until I realized how frustrated he was with our world--he didn't understand it at all. What looks like defiance can, and usually is, a very miserable child. It's not your fault. He obviously has some disorder that needs the proper treatment. And what has been diagnosed and is being treating just isn't my opinion the behavior will not go away by behavioral methods nor get better without the proper diagnosis and treatment or even just medications. I think the best thing you can do for your little guy is to have a neuropsychologist assessment like my son had--all twelve hours of it. THAT professional nailed him right and things improved almost right away. ADHD/Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)--big red flags for a child who is actually on the Spectrum, but it's being called something else. Is he getting school interventions besides the speech? Early education? I know it's hard, been there. (((Hugs))) and good luck regardless of what you decide to do.
  3. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    Sorry Dara, I know you're waiting for the evaluation at Mayo in spring. If it gets to the point where he's truly out of control and is a potential danger you might ask the referring doctor to see if they can get the appointment moved up. If your frustration level reaches the point where your control is threatened (as many of ours would be) you may want to revisit the possibility of medications because things don't tend to get easier over the holidays.

    Good luck and hang in there.
  4. Dara

    Dara New Member

    Midwest mom, He has been evaluated by a neuropsychologist who was a complete quack. He didnt actually evaluate Sammy he just spoke to me and spoke in circles. He didnt need to see Sammy again he said. We have been going round and round witht he doctors here and nobody seems to want to do anything or give us a plan on a way to deal with him and make his life better. Basically, we are at a complete stand still until our evaluation at the Mayo Clinic in late April or May. I can only hope that we make that far. At least there, we know that they will be proactive on trying to find out what is going on with this little guy! I am so frustrated with the entire situation I dont know what to do anymore. According to the therapists it is a subtle thing I am doing but they cant tell me what it is. I think they are full of you know what! I know how miserable we are and I cant even imagine how miserable Sammy is. I just want to help him and have no idea how because we have no idea what is going on.....I have to go change his diaper now...LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!!!
  5. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    Dara, does Mayo have a cancellation list you can get on? Have you thought to call and say that the situation is getting dangerous and you're wondering if anything can be done sooner.

    by the way, I don't think you're doing anything to prompt Sammy's rages. I think no one has yet uncovered what's going on with him. Once you know for sure, you'll be able to put interventions into place to help him.

    Hang in there.
  6. saman

    saman New Member

    Sending some ((HUGS)).

    Im a big fan of changing the diet too..take out all the :censored2:, use a gluten free/casein free diet until then. It's something you CAN do...and it won't hurt him if it doesn't work, Know what I mean??

    I hope that Mayo can get you in sooner.
  7. Dara

    Dara New Member

    We are on the cancellation list for the mayo but they told me that they dont have a lot of cancellations due to the long wait to get in...But, I am on that list. We have had to change his diet a bit for stomache issues but he is so darn picky that it is impossible!
    I just want to know how to help him. At this point I dont care what it is, just figure something out, have a plan of how to deal with him and make all of our lives a little easier. Make him a bit happier.
    Thank you for the thoughts and support!
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Dara, our neuropsychologist had worked out of Mayo for ten years, and he was fantastic. I know how hard it is to wait because we were on a looooooooooong waiting list too. They're good so the list is long--that should be a bit of consolation. They will figure out the problem AND IT IS NOT YOU. I wouldn't bother with any therapist who implies that it is. Your little guy is just probably wired differently and you don't know how to reach him to help and that isn't your fault either. I can feel your frustration and well remember my own. If you can, try to get in sooner. If you can't, get therapy for yourself in the meantime and make sure it's a supportive person who isn't going to tell you that you did something wrong because you didn't. Take care.
  9. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member

    :rofl: at least we know you haven't lost your sense of humor!

    I was going to suggest the cancellation list as well, but obviously you've already done that. Dara, you may need to get some respite for you. As for me, if I had to deal with this day in and day out without relief, I would get to the point where I was not worth a thing! Anyone Sammy really enjoys spending time with that could come and give you a break once a week?

    Hugs to you,
  10. Steely

    Steely Active Member


    First, so sorry you are still going through this! Big HUGS.

    Second, have you tried the dairy, gluten, and casen free diet suggested by some autism experts?

    Third, you may want to throw around the idea again, about trialing Clonidine until the doctors appointment. Something is going to have to give that Sammy and you are able to stay safe, and healthy.

    Fourth, your question about what makes him do this is an excellent one, and one that I have pondered many times with my own son. My difficult child will do the same exact thing as you described Sammy doing - and yes, still - at age 17 we are going through this. Sigh........My conclusion as to why, though, leaves me convinced that this is alI really an organic thing. Sometimes I think it is just a wire/neuron simply misfiring in his brain, and his brain is imploded with adrenaline. No rhyme or reason, no logic, because he cannot even think rationally. It is simply the flight or fight syndrome in action.
  11. Mrs Smith

    Mrs Smith New Member

    If you haven't already made a detailed daily schedule (including diaper changes), you might want to give it a try. In hindsight, I think my son would have been less explosive if we didn't have any unscheduled, unstructured time in his day.

    Add to that being a perfectionist with dyspraxia and assuming I could read his mind and you have the type of meltdowns it sounds like Sammy has. My son still assumes I should know what he's thinking and be able to anticipate his needs. The other day he was mad at me because I wasn't there to watch him do a move on a video game - as if my spider senses should have been tingling to let me know it was time!

    Imagine how annoyed you'd be if you were three and thought your mother knew what was wrong and was purposely not helping you when she saw how upset you were and then punished you because of it. Attacking you is not really surprising if that's what he was thinking. Their brains really do work differently. Not sure what to do about it other than explain the importance of using words to communicate. Maybe a picture exchange or sign language if he's having trouble with language.

    I have no idea if Sammy is on the spectrum but your situation sounds so familar I thought I'd throw out some things to think about. As always, trust your instincts. Sorry if I repeated things you've tried or aleady doing. Good luck!
  12. Dara

    Dara New Member

    First, I have to keep my sense of humor or I would be crying all day long. The best quote I have ever heard comes from Kermit the Frog "Life is a funny thing. Sometimes you laugh and sing, SOmetimes you grumble and cuss"
    The Muppets keep my sense of humor going.
    I have tried to get therapy for myself and my insurance wont cover it and we cant afford it right now. I am in pain management for 2 herniated discs in my neck and I go to PT and am waiting to get an injection.
    The doctors arent so for the change of diet because he doesnt eat that much to begin with. He is so darn picky that we have so little to choose from.
    The amazing thing is that when he is having a good day/moment, he is amazing and then it changes on a dime.
    Good news is we have a babysitter that is great with him and she is coming sunday evening to let us go out!
    I must go now, the king has woken from his gentle slumber!
  13. Josie

    Josie Active Member

    My kids and I are girlfriend/CF. My older daughter is very picky. Before we started this diet, she ate pretty much just wheat and cheese. Her favorite foods were macaroni and cheese, mozzarella sticks, grilled cheese, pizza. I wondered what she would eat, too. She is still very picky but she doesn't eat those things any more.

    Your son would adjust. Some kids actually eat more on this diet because they feel better.

    In my experience, doctors are not for the girlfriend/CF diet. It just isn't how they were taught to treat patients. It isn't even something they check for, so if it is your child's problem, you will most likely have to discover it for yourself or go to an alternative doctor.

    It is a very real problem and it could be at least part of the answer for you. The accepted rate for bona fide celiac disease is 1% of the population. 97% of those are undx'ed. Even some celiac doctors think up to 30% or more of the population suffers from gluten intolerance.

    My kids are not autistic but my older daughter is an entirely different person on the girlfriend/CF diet. She was violent, irritable, and defiant when she ate gluten and casein. I did gluten free only at first and even with that, we could tell she was better off. It soon became clear that milk was a problem also.

    If you do decide to try it, it is easier to start with just getting rid of gluten or casein, not both. In the beginning, I let them eat whatever they wanted without worrying about nutrition because I wanted to see if it would work and I wanted them to be cooperative. It's easier to be cooperative when you are given Skittles instead of a not very good gluten free cracker and some soy cheese.
  14. Dara

    Dara New Member

    Do you suggest any books or anything that list foods to avoid. We did testing for food enzymes and to see if he had problems procesing these foods and those came back normal. but if I can see a list of foods to eat and not eat that might help me a bit
  15. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat


    First of all, big hugs and lots of strength being sent your way. We are all kinda sitting here waiting for your appointment with Mayo. We are as anxious for you to get answers as you are, you poor thing.

    Answers. Why does he does this or that. You mentioned him trying to play his laptop, not knowing how to do it, raging, and then raging at you when you try to help him. Seriously, it could just be that he is frustrated. He may be smart enough to know what he wants to to, but have *whatever* issue underlying that prevents him from doing it. Being as young as he is, this is how he acts out his frustration, by raging. Then you come along and try to help (oh yeah, shame on you) and he sees that as an insult. Because he KNOWS what he wants to do. He just can't... quite... do it.

    Does that make any sense?

    And I might be wrong. Just an outsiders opinion. I've kept up with your posts about Sammy, and it sounds to me like he is very smart. I think he just gets frustrated with himself and does not know how to cope yet.

    Hanging there with ya till you can get in...and praying for a cancellation so you can get in sooner...
  16. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Dara, the answer is so obvious - all you need to do, is read his mind and in return, telepathically insert the answer he's looking for. He's getting frustrated with you (and himself) because this just isn't happening!

    Seriously, this is very close to the bone. We went through this with our younger two and especially with difficult child 3. The raging was quite spectacular at times, generally because we didn't instantly respond as he expected us to respond. Sometimes the first we knew that he wanted something, was when he threw a tantrum. He hadn't even asked for what he wanted! But then, he didn't have the language skills he should have had. Still, a non-verbal child can still 'ask' - grabbing you by the hand and dragging you to the kitchen sink generally means, "I want a drink of water".

    He is very young, and extremely frustrated - with himself, as much as other people. And yes, young angry children throw things. By putting him in the crib to cool down, you are doing a very good thing.

    I also am thinking Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) in some form, to some degree. It could turn out to be quite mild - if he is very bright but also very frustrated, the higher intelligence can increase the frustration because the child has an internal sense of, "I should be able to accomplish this - why can't I?"

    This is perhaps the worst age in a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) child's development (my opinion, based on observations of my own kids). Even the emotional tug of war in adolescence, bad as it can be, pales next to the extreme raging and frustrations of a toddler/pre-schooler.

    You commented he rages when he doesn't get his own way; you can deal with this by giving him what he wants, as long as it's OK with you. You don't gain anything by being obstructive purely for its own sake, which is what a lot of parents do, without even thinking, because they need to maintain the pecking order. In Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) the child does not understand pecking order at all, they will give back to you the behaviour you model to them (but add in the raging, for good measure). All you can do is continue to try to model good behaviour and even in the face of raging, calmly say, "I'm not hitting you; why are you hurting me? That is unkind."

    "Explosive Child" methods are good but he is VERY young. You may find SOME help, but until he can communicate his wants better, and until you can help him better understand YOUR needs with regards to him, there will be limited improvement.

    Diet can help. I recall when easy child was a baby, she was a darling. Until she got one particular artificial colouring. She first got it in medicine prescribed for thrush. She turned from a precious angel to a raging monster. We took her off the medicine and after a couple of days it had washed out of hr system and she was our angel again. Instead, I had to get adult spearmint-flavoured lozenges and grid them up, mix them with her rice cereal and force feed her medicine into her. She would fight me over the medicine, but for the rest of the day was a darling. She has now outgrown that reaction. By her teens she could eat that colouring with no apparent problem.

    About the diet - we've tried it several times. Most recently, difficult child 3 was put on the diet through a public hospital here in Sydney where they were actually researching the benefits of the diet.
    The aim of the diet - to determine which (if any) naturally-occurring or artificial additives are contributing to any problems, behaviourally or health-wise.
    It can be a surprise to realise that a lot of the problems can be ascribed to naturally-occurring chemicals. It can be a shock when you learn what foods you need to exclude to check this out.

    The natural chemicals which can be a problem - they fall into several groups.

    1) Salicylates. These are the natural anti-inflammatories. Willow bark contains enough to use therapeutically, although it's fairly rough on the stomach and now we can synthesise aspirin we're much better off. And we don't eat willow bark as a rule. But foods containing salicylates are the herbs & spices (except camomile); the strongly flavoured foods; tea, coffee; honey (VERY high in salicylates) and most fruit and vegetables except peeled pears and peeled potatoes.

    2) Amines. A lot of meat in this group. Chocolate, bananas are both very high in amines.

    3) Glutamates. Mostly fermented products such as soy sauce, a lot of preservatives or otherwise preserved foods including natural methods of preservation.

    4) Dairy. Yes, milk, lactose etc can be a problem.

    5) Artificial additives such as colour, flavour.

    The Elimination Diet aims to exclude ALL possibilities to first see if there is any improvement when you have ruled out absolutely everything (and you also have to rule out toothpaste with its minty freshness - salicylate) and then you slowly introduce groups, to see if there is a reaction/return to the problem behaviours.

    The Elimination Diet is not a healthy one. It is not balanced. You cannot live on this safely, although you can help by including supplements which are permitted on the list. Most vitamins are OK, as long as the carrier they're in doesn't contain anything nasty. For example, chewable Vitamin C is not permitted, but powdered ascorbic acid is OK.

    The basic, very limited elimination diet allows chicken (no skin), lamb, peeled potato, white sugar. Caramel therefore is a permitted colouring since all it is, is toasted sugar. We hunted around for things permitted and found one brand of lemonade was OK, home-made honeycomb (he liked that). Lots of roast chicken (we had to not use any stuffing and choose organic chicken which hadn't been flavour-basted or anything like that). Home-made poached pears in sugar syrup. Little else. When they allowed milk, he could have one brand of ice cream, vanilla only (yes, vanilla is OK).

    What we found - diet wasn't the problem. The symptoms didn't ease as we expected, but waxed and waned erratically. We had eliminated the wrong variables - stress was the trigger and the symptom was nausea and vomiting.

    You shouldn't undertake the Elimination Diet without a dietician's support. Seriously, this diet is bad enough to get CPS called on you, if you try it alone. And ensuring the kid's compliance - if you can't ensure it, then don't try because it will cause more misery than it's worth.

    I'm glad we tried it. I'm also glad we don't need to worry about it.

  17. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    You've gotten some great replies here.
    A lot of what you're going through sounds familiar. been there done that.
    All I can say is that it can get better.
    I agree with-consistency, and with-dietary changes while you're waiting for the appointment.
    by the way, I was actually HAPPY the one time my son melted down at the pediatrician's ofc. No one, especially the dr, believed me (you all know how that goes).
    It was the start of a long road home.
  18. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member

    Well, I really feel bad for you. I wish there were an answer that could help you and Sammy have better days.

    The only thing I can think of while reading this was that you must be really stressed out. And perhaps that is coming through with Sammy more than you realize. I do know that when I was in my depths of difficult child parenting, I was counterproductive due to my inability to react appropriately. I am not saying that is you, but you do have to keep it in mind and watch for it. It happens. That is not to say when I was in a better place that everything was peaches and - I only wish it were so. But, a lot less conflict for sure.

  19. Josie

    Josie Active Member

    Here is a list of gluten free foods.

    This is a list for celiacs who just have to avoid gluten but most of the milk is in obvious places. You do have to read every label. Milk will be clearly listed so it is easy to spot.

    My sister loves the book called Special Diets for Special Kids by Lisa Lewis. You might have to order it online. It is girlfriend/CF recipes and advice. My sister uses this book a lot and has liked everything she has made. There's even a recipe for hot chocolate!

    I got most of my information at Again, it is mostly people with celiac disease but lots of them are also casein intolerant.

    On a girlfriend/CF diet, you have to avoid anything with wheat, rye, oats, barley, and milk. So obviously regular bread, pasta, cereal, cheese, ice cream are out. You can have meat, fish, rice, potatoes, corn, fruits, and veggies. It is hard to get started and learn everything but it isn't hard to do once you get the hang of it. It is inconvenient but not as inconvenient as dealing with my child was before.

    If you decide to try it, feel free to PM me with any questions or post on the board.
  20. Dara

    Dara New Member

    Again thank you for all of the support and Ideas! We have always said that Sammy is too smart for his own good. I do agree that he has an idea in his mind of what and how he wants to do something and like you guys said since we dont autimatically know what the correct response is...
    We are extremely stressed out. We try not to show in fron tof him but days like today where there is constant tantruming, it is hard not to show stress.
    Certain things he does are so curious like this evening we were going to eat dinner and he said he wanted a snack. We said we were going to eat dinner and he said he wanted pretzel sticks so to avoid a tantrum we said you can have some pretzel sticks in a bag and take them with you. Either 1) he didnt understand what we said or 2) he was beyond any sense of reason. That pretty much sums up all situations with him. It is instant rage. he goes from happy to rage with no in between. There is no in between to explain what you mean or are expecting of him. I dont even know if I am explaining this correctly. I wish I had something that translated his thoughts in his head so I can do the correct answer! He is on a schedule. Every day the same routine and that is also for me. Leaving the house is a disaster. He doesnt want to go anywhere or do anything. He will say "i just done" My favorite new thing he says is "thats for kids" What I want to know is what does that make him? As much as he angers me he does make me laugh. he is truely a unique little guy. Not many 3 year olds rock out to Iron Maiden and Rush! Thats all he likes to hear! I am done babbleing for now!