Take a stab at the diagnosis of this child at my daycare center. I'm stumped.

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by MidwestMom, Apr 17, 2011.

  1. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I will change some details.

    Cute little thing who introduced herself to me with a big smile. I was trying to engage her when she said, her smile stretching wider, "Hi (obscsene word)!!" Then it was followed by a mighty kick in the shin. We are not allowed to say "No" or "don't" or even make a child apologize (see my post on Conscious Discipline) so I turned away, shocked.

    The rest of the day, with t he big sunny smile still on her face, she went around swearing, kicking teachers and kids, poking kids in the eyes, and making everyone cry. When a teacher tried to hold her just to calm her down and talk to her about her behavior being "not safe" she smiled again and said, "Yes, it' safe!" She had no remorse at all.

    I do not see any form of autism. She could have an impending mood disorder, but chilren with mood disorders are usually sorry afterward and cry. She is way beyond ADHD, although she won't sit down in circle time...she walks around and does what she lilkes.

    I like to guess what is wrong with children, although I realize I could be way wrong. But with this child, I can't even take a guess. I have never met a child like her in my life. We do have children who I am quite sure will be diagnosed with autism or ADHD, but they always feel bad after they do something wrong and they don't hurt other k ids to the degree of this one. And teachers! None of the other kids swear at or kick teachers at age four!!!! Yikes.

    Any ideas?

    She probably has a lot going on at home, but most of our children have unstable homes and NONE of them behave like she does. Guesses?
  2. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    Abusive home life of some type where she and everyone else has to "smile and deal with it"?
  3. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    No clue...but it's going to be a looonnnggg year. Yikes. DDD
  4. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Is this a daycare for Special Education kids? Why can't you sit her down and say "NO!" and then redirect her?

    I met a kid in my daughter's daycare once who was a bit like that. He hit and bit all the babies, especially the 6-mo-olds who could sit up but not yet walk. (Easy targets.) Instead of grabbing his hand and yelling NO! I took his hand and said, "Do you want to touch the baby?"
    He nodded and said "Yes."
    So I smoothed out his fingers to show him a flat hand (rather than a fist) and held his wrist tightly and stroked the baby's cheek and said, "Nice, soft baby. Good boy."
    I did it over and over. A little while later, he went at it again with-the fist and when I shot across the room to nab him, he immediately changed his hand to a flat hand and stroked the baby.
    He definitely knew the difference.

    I have no idea where that comes from but can see in his case how to change it.

    If that would work for this girl, I would highly recommend it. Redirect, and physically play with her. If she wants to kick, take off her shoes, sit across from her and play footsies, Know what I mean??

    I have no idea what is wrong with-her but clearly, that language came from home, not day care.
  5. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Something wrong at home- either abuse or being spoiled rotten and never taught anything to the point of neglect.
  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    This is a 4K. It is not supposed to be for Special Education children. Some of them obviously are!
  7. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I do NOT usually choose this as a reason for a child to behave a certain way but it could easily be having parents who think she is perfect in every way. Either that or there is something seriously dysfunctional at home. But with-o more info we really cannot know.

    by the way, our school uses that sameConscious Discipline thing and NO WHERE does the actual program say that an adult cannot say No. I went and looked it up, and compared what our school has posted and how they are trained on it and it is completely NOT what your school is doing. Whoever adopted it for your school and then taught the staff how to do it really really messed it up. The basic idea is to help the student understand what they did, why it isn't good and what they should have done instead. I don't totally buy into it the way our school does it, but it isn't anything like what your place is doing. Whoever adapted it for your school has lost their teeny tiny mind!
  8. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Spoiled brat who knows you can't discipline her.

    And yes, often it's just that simple.

    The reason Conscious Discipline is utterly ridiculous. ugh I'm afraid as more kids figure it out, she'll have plenty of company.

    I'm sorry MWM I don't know how you manage to work under those conditions. I'm afraid I'd have to find another job.
  9. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    by the way........

    I diagnosis her a "spoiled brat" because as you said, you're not picking up on any other signs of gfgdom.

    This kid is smart. She has the "rules" figured out. And since there are no real consequences to breaking them...........why not??
  10. svengandhi

    svengandhi Well-Known Member

    She "the bad seed" of her generation?

    seriously, is she being abused at home? I know a lot of spoiled brats but most of them do not hit and kick.
  11. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    A lot of our kids have less than good home lives. Many kids raise our "sexual abuse" radar. A few have been put into foster care already. NOBODY acts like this child..

    We are taught that we can not say "no." We have to say "That is not ok." Our kids are not allowed to be put into time outs or isolated from their peers even if they bash another kid over the head with a shovel. They are not forced to say "I'm sorry." My daughter-in-law was a presschool teacher. They used this Conscious Discipline too and she complained about the same thing...she got a new job and put my grandson into private daycare (thankfully) in a provider's home.

    I think this child's meanness is too extreme to just be in the brat category. She SCARES me. We do have a few spoiled k ids and they pout if they don't get their own way and sometimes push boundaraies a little bit, but she terrorizes the classroom. She reminds me of a child possessed. The scary part is that she has no remorse at all. None. And she is only four years old.

    I usually just work as a bus aide so I don't have to deal with the kids and their behaviors too much. A few times I have worked in the classroom. It is eye opening.
  12. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Being preschool age then..............and since you went into a bit more detail with the behavior.......

    Possible domestic violence going on. Possible a diagnosis going on, but honestly it would be far too early for any sort of real diagnosis. One because many psychiatrists don't believe mental illness develops before certain ages, and even those that are realizing that behaviors begin long long before they ever realized/admitted before.....are hesitant to diagnosis anything serious before late teens early adulthood. Heck some flat out refuse to do so.

    And yes, while it may make me unpopular to some, I'm sorry but I ran a daycare many many many years, trust me I've seen more than my fair share of spoiled brats who not only hit and kick but bite and throw things and you name it if they believe they can get away with it they do it. One does not have to have a diagnosis to do such things. Complete lack of discipline can produce the same behaviors depending on a child's personality. I'm not talking spoiled in the sense their parents buy them everything yadda yadda, although sometimes I've seen parents terrorized;/trained to do so by a child via behavior. I'm talking the child who has learned inappropriate behaviors to get what they want.....even if what they want is to show you they're the boss.

    In all those years, given time and dicipline, each one of them turned around and were fairly well behaved......at least with me. But I can't see how you can manage to do that when you're not so much as allowed to tell a child no, let alone use time out ect. The child under such circumstances has no "real" reason to conform to the rules. None.

    Honestly given the classroom environment and the limitations set on you as far as discipline goes, I'm not sure if you could accurately judge her to be difficult child or easy child. If she's an independent smart child who is lagging in the area of empathy, you might see the same types of behavior.....especially with no real punishment for what they did. Being a smart child......they put 2 and 2 together.....hey I did such and such and all that happened was *this* and it was really nothing......so I'm gonna do it again......and again.......cuz it's really no big deal. Because a child is naturally self centered and to her it really is not a big deal because the punishment whatever wasn't enough to make any real impact on her.

    Sorry. I don't get this philosophy. Kids need firm rules and boundaries with real consequences for them. I totally agree that why something should not be not should be explained to a child.......but to not even be able to say no? Might as well set all the kids in the classroom together and the teachers go have coffee.
  13. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I don't get the philosophy either. It makes no sense, teaches nothing.

    Having said that, I doubt this particular child would respond to consequences. As for smart, I have no idea. She doesn't seem particularly smarter than the other children, just meaner. I am glad I don't have to deal with her on a daily basis and even happier that she is not on our bus route. I think that, for whatever reason she is this way, she is on a very dangerous path. There is no other child in our entire school even close to the way she behaves.
  14. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Whew. I have to agree with-you about the dangerous path. Scary.
    What a shame.
    If she were on your bus route ... you could practice special seating discipline or something. :)
  15. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    P.S. I have to add my 2 cents worth about Conscious Discipline. NO!