The book I've been reading: narcissts and socipaths

AnnieO

Shooting from the Hip
But, as a mother myself, it does kinda bug me that so much of this is put "on" the moms with little to no mention of fathers.

Where are the dads in all of this? And a single mother with a child with these tendencies is up against A LOT!
I can tell you a little bit about some of those dads. Hardly all of them. Maybe not even most. I don't truly know; I just know a few dads who would give their souls for their kids.

Anyway. Some dads - well, they and the children's mother couldn't hack it. So they split up. However it happened. Doesn't matter there. What does matter is when mom refuses to let the kids see their dad. Tells them awful things about him. Gets a restraining order based on false allegations. Or maybe just moves the kids away and when they ask, shrugs and says "I don't know where he is". So the dads aren't there.

Now there are always the true "deadbeat dads" - the ones who give the good guys a bad name. Star's ex comes to mind.

Divorced or not, fathers should be a part of raising children and parents need to act as a united front making sure the child receives not only proper nurturing, but logical and appropriate consequences to inappropriate behaviors/choices.
ABSOLUTELY! Of course... If the parents could agree... Maybe they wouldn't be divorced. But the kids sure don't deserve the fallout...

All these years later, family members are trying to deal with it all.
Family members - including step and adoptive parents, siblings, grandparents, even cousins, aunts and uncles. Friends. We're all trying to help the kids. And sometimes it feels like there's just too much damage and they will never get past their baggage.
 

keista

New Member
Some dads - well, they and the children's mother couldn't hack it. So they split up. However it happened. Doesn't matter there. What does matter is when mom refuses to let the kids see their dad. Tells them awful things about him. Gets a restraining order based on false allegations. Or maybe just moves the kids away and when they ask, shrugs and says "I don't know where he is". So the dads aren't there.

Here's a situation where the Mother is clearly the sociopath or narcissist. I've met quite a few women who fit the profile. It's not strictly a Y chromosome thing.
 

AnnieO

Shooting from the Hip
Here's a situation where the Mother is clearly the sociopath or narcissist. I've met quite a few women who fit the profile. It's not strictly a Y chromosome thing.

I would say narcissist, for certain. Not so sure about sociopath. Perhaps.
 

Star*

call 911........call 911
I don't know why anyone would want to read up on any of this. I'm so glad to be away from it. It took 28 years of my life.
 
N

Nomad

Guest
Well...truth be told...I'm reading up on it both for professional reasons and because this family member has come up in my life again to a certain extent. I am limiting involvement + setting up boundaries.
He is basically a narcissist. BUT....seems extreme.
The woman he has been dating for 10+ years and I talked. She said that they got into a fight once and he tried to strangle her. Also told me that he can be profoundly selfish. In the same breath she said, "but he is such a nice guy...I love him."
Wow.....I do think these guys make sure to associate themselves with kind souls who are big time ENABLERS. It is so sad.
Just my opinion, but if and when these folks wake up...I bet it is a shocking and sad day.
And it can get mighty ugly along the way.
Now, I'm reading a book about narcissism. (No surprise there!).
Crazy...that book looks GOOD!
I do feel sorry for families who have endured this type of family member. It is a confusing, heartbreaking and difficult thing.
Star...I hear ya! It was very good to be rid of that person in my life....for the most part (almost ALWAYSSSSS) I DO believe that is THE BEST TACTIC!!! Amen! :)
 

Star*

call 911........call 911
I would tell your family members girlfriend to STAY away from me.....and him. Then I would tell him - to Bugger off. I can't see where anyone like this in my life would be of ANY benefit. He's trouble, she's an idiot, and the whole thing is going to fall like a house of cards with you in the middle.
 
N

Nomad

Guest
I've been thinking the same thing.
One day, I might post some of this story.
One thing I know from experience with this "fella" in the past....there are no winners. It is lose/lose situation when dealing with a narcissist.
by the way, just read about Picasso. It was one of the most hideous things I have ever read. Seems he would use women...had affairs left and right. Then paint them on canvas in such a way that basically depicted if he was about to dump them or not. One girlfriend (married) left him first. She was tired of his abuse/affairs. This never happened before and it outraged him.
Then he tricked her to believe he REALLY wanted her and had changed. So, over time, she changed her mind about it all, and left her husband and prepared to marry PIcasso.
Very shortly after her divorce, Picasso dumped her and married someone else he had in the wings. He did all of this on purpose to get even with her for breaking up with him.
 

Star*

call 911........call 911
It's rumored he used that ear to paint with.......how sick is that? When we were in art history - someone in the back said "Ears a self portrait of me self darlin'" and we had to shut down for the rest of the class.
 

hearts and roses

Mind Reader
It's rumored he used that ear to paint with.......how sick is that? When we were in art history - someone in the back said "Ears a self portrait of me self darlin'" and we had to shut down for the rest of the class.

You're talking about Van Gogh, right? Van Gogh didn't cut off his entire ear - there are conflicting stories about this - he cut off his ear lobe and send it to a woman he was in love with and who left him. In recent studies, it was determined that Van Gogh was bi-polar. There was another researcher who said he more likely had major depressive disorder. But if you look more closely at his life, it seems that if he had lived during our times, he would have likely been diagnosed as an Aspie (with co-morbid depressive disorder). Interesting stuff.

I always thought my loco sister was narcissistic, however, now I am leaning towards other personality disorders. In any event, the best way to avoid the trauma that goes along with dealing with her is to avoid her.

Another good book along these lines is "Walking on Eggshells" which I'm sure I've seen mentioned here a few times.
 

DazedandConfused

Well-Known Member
My father was a sociopath; married to my mother for 22 disastrous years.

I have thought about writing a book about him and my experiences. I've read about half of The Sociopath Beside Me. (actually, listened. I have it D/L'd on my computer) it. But, I lived it too and don't need to have it described to me.

Normal people would probably think I'm making what he did up. He was a CLASSIC sociopath. I could never understand a man that was suppose to protect me from the world, was the one I needed protecting from. Every person that he managed to entangle in his web paid, usually financially. The man would have thrown me under the bus if he thought there was a nice payoff for him. He could manage to mimic "real" emotions, but when I look back now, I know it was all an act. Yet, he could be so so very charming, witty, and smart. He would make me feel like I was the most amazing child ever. He would also turn on a dime and he did on me a lot. He threaten to cut off my breasts if he ever caught me without a bra. He said this when I was nine and I still remember how I terrified I was. He would tell me that I was adopted and wasn't his REAL child, and then hug my cousin and say how SHE was his REAL child. He drank and gambled heavily. There would be an expensive car in the driveway, but his children would have no shoes to wear. There were some happy times, but they were fleeting, yet they kept me hanging on that my father would one day be a regular Dad. He was almost "like" one at times. This went on well into my adulthood.

In my late thirties, I just couldn't take it anymore. He made yet another unkempt promise to MY CHILD. He had made hundreds to me. All broken (The charm and feigned regret is a powerful thing). But, my child? No frozen (thanks, Fargo) way! I never saw him again. I stopped calling and he never called me (I would call because that's what a good daughter does and I could not have him think I didn't CARE). Now, I know whether I cared, or not, was not a concern of his. He was incapable it. I didn't understand why then, I just knew I had had enough. I was married with a family to protect.

Some years ago, my sister had mentioned that my Dad was a Sociopath. I brushed it off. That was serial killer stuff. Then, for some reason, a few months ago, I decided to do some research. What I got from my research is that the term "sociopath" is not a diagnoses. I also discovered that there is disagreement for what makes a sociopath and a psychopath. A psychopath isn't necessarily a violent sociopath which some lead one to believe. Anti-Social Personality Disorder covers both terms.

Anyway, my father demonstrated EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE CRITERIA. I lived up to my moniker (Dazed and Confused) for about three days. I was reflecting on my upbringing and my experiences, and my overwhelmed mind was swimming with memories that suddenly began to make sense. Yes! It actually made SENSE!

All those years, DECADES, I tried to understand this immense and powerful force in my life, now I did and do. It's a very sad relief, but at least I have clarity now to know that it wasn't me EVER. As a kid, I would ask myself why he hated me so much? I was a good, responsible kid.

As an adult, I tend to have a sarcastic and just a bit dark view of the world. I'm a nice person, but I tend to see things differently than most people I encounter. I'm not good a chit-chat and have only a few friends. It's hard for me to relate to other people because I feel like, at time, I'm from another universe.

Anyway, I'm rambling. If you know a family member that has ASPD, STAY AWAY! They cannot be therapied out of it. Their goal is to always get what they want regardless of who is hurt. They don't understand hurt or emotion. Human beings are objects to be used for their gratification. This includes their children.

Just stay away.
 

DazedandConfused

Well-Known Member
Oh, and my mother didn't leave him for many years was first, she married him as a teenager. Second, he threatened to take us and make sure she never saw us again. Of course, this would have been done after a thorough beating.
 
N

Nomad

Guest
D & C (((Hugs)))
The damage these folks cause is powerful.
I can totally understand how "dazed and confused" you were trying to process it all. Your sister was right on the money and although it was tough to take it all in, no doubt, it was good that she told you what was going on.
 
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