Unconditional love?


Well-Known Member
Laughing. I'm sorry. I can't help it. The situation is ridiculous, but funny too. Her husband is more than happy to get her off his hands, probably so HE can cheat too with somebody who LIKES sex, and this woman, who doesn't like sex, can buy your son the things he wants. Although I find it highly immoral for people to have affairs, this isn't really one. Hub knows and is fine with it. Not even the sex. Hurts nobody, takes the heat off of you for now as he collects whatever from the woman.

Yeah, I sure don't want to know details about the sex lives of other people, and my kids are included. If you are of age, I won't ask and you don't have to tell unless you want help accessing birth control, which is a smart thing.

Oh, Lil, you do have a wild ride on your hands!

At least he is more concerned with his hygiene now. Maybe she owns a company and will give him a job. Look at the positives.


Well-Known Member
Your son is brilliant. He has figured out a way to get what he wants. Now you know he will land on his feet by hook or crook.

Work on you. Love you. Take care of you. Grow your relationship with jabber. Take that relationship to new heights. Your son will find a place to live. That new cell phone was probably a gift from his "woman". Your son has chosen his path. Choose yours.

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
In a twisted way, that plan gave me peace.

That is the extreme we are pushed to, the edge we live on, every day (and the nights are worse) of our lives.

We live on hyper-alert.

the very best I *could* do was to have all the bases covered on my end.

We were frequent fliers to Hades and back

I love this. It describes what happens to all of us beautifully, but it has a little zing of humor in it. Humor helps us maintain our balance.

It is so good to laugh. It's like touching base with ourselves, with the person we were before everything.

He was way too insistent that we know about this woman he's seeing.

He is telling you he is exploring life.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it (that is from Mission: Impossible) is to remind him to be a gentleman, and to remind him as easily as though it were the most natural thing in the world, that there is no more money.

Yes, I agree there is going to be a crisis in late May regarding the June eviction.

That is why it will be a very good thing to remind him now that there will be no money, ever. Tell him you are enacting a new theory called detachment parenting, if that will help, but tell him now, and tell him often, that there will be no more money.

All the other stuff is okay, Lil. Choose your places to stand and make a determined effort to let the rest go. (Though I do, always and every single time, remind my kids and grands of the rotten sexually transmitted diseases out there.) I would have said something like "What is her HIV status? I mean, just in case."

Given that she is a married apprentice tattoo artist in an "open" marriage, I might "open" a discussion on Hep C.

I am always mentioning things like that.

Gonorrhea. Herpes of both kinds. Horror stories I have heard that don't particularly relate to the child's (or grandchild's) current situation but that get the idea across. How extremely communicable these kinds of diseases are. No guilt in catching them, I say ~ any more than there is guilt in the common cold or the flu.

Which is true.

Then, I like to add that every time we sleep with someone new or even, kiss them, we are probably catching germs (hopefully, dead ones) not only from them, but from whoever they slept with or kissed last and so on, the circle ever enlarging, the diseases as contagious as the common cold.

That is what I say.



I encourage free clinics or family doctors or whatever it takes to be responsible and take care of ourselves so we don't catch something awful and give it to someone else.

Both my kids are like, totally irresponsible in ten thousand ways, but they do tend to take that part of things seriously.

Which means you take care of business once you catch something.

They are G F Gs, after all.


This is the way your child is choosing to grow. It helped me to come up with responses simple enough that I could remember them when all I wanted to do was have one child or the other back home ~ or throw money at the problem, which was my other go to response.

That taught my children to see themselves as beggars, Lil.

I realized that just lately, as I see what it looks like for them, and for two of our grandchildren too, to have come through "NO MONEY".

They came through Lil, with colors flying. Stronger and more certain of who and how they are, and of whether they need to be afraid or can rely on themselves.


Wish I'd seen it that way, sooner.



Well-Known Member
There was one thing he asked about that took me by surprise. He asked if he could come over and watch Game of Thrones with us. It would involve ne picking him up and taking him home, I'm sure. I kind of put him off and didn't give him an answer.

I have to admit, I'd like that. In my head, its a "normal" thing for us to do. In his younger years, he always watched Supernatural with me. (Much of the time Jabber worked nights) So it was often him and me snuggled in the couch. It was the last "family" thing he ever wanted to do. I want that little bit of normal again.

I don't know how it would work out now. :(

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Turn it into a carrot. Being "homeless" isn't the end of the world (gfgbro did that), but... there are ways to be clean and neat, even if homeless. Would it work to do it as long as he's clean and neat?


Well-Known Member
It's not clean and neat that's the problem...it's the "Please, can't I stay? It's late and raining and I have nowhere to go. I'm your son. I'll get up and leave when you do in the morning. Where do you expect me to go? Are you really going to make me sleep on the streets? So you're just going to what...drop me off on a street corner instead of letting your own son sleep inside?"


one day at a time
I so understand the slippery slope you describe lil.

If you want to try it...having him over to watch game of thrones, you could say this:

Yes we would like you to come over and watch with us. Let's try it once and see how it goes. We will be picking you up and dropping you off once the show is over. no deviations...you can't spend the night so let's don't even go there. Looking forward to it.

Then lil if it goes off course...you will know you tried. If the idea feels to stressful don't do it.

This needs to be more about you...and less about him.

It is very hard to drop someone off at 10 pm at night at a McDonald's or at a closed dark building. I have done it three or four times and it cost me nearly everything. I knew I had to do it once I was on the course but it nearly killed me. The alternative is just to realize that right now he can't come over at night because the ending of the evening is too hard on you.

Perhaps you could record it and have him over much earlier the next night. That way, when he leaves it is still light outside. Somehow that is easier.

Hang in there. This is tough stuff.


Well-Known Member
Perhaps you could record it and have him over much earlier the next night. That way, when he leaves it is still light outside. Somehow that is easier.

This would be our preference if we were to have him over but he wants to watch it live so to speak. I just don't want him causing a blow up at 10 PM then we cant sleep and it affects us at work the next day. And there is the issue of it having to be several nights later due to the part time job. The more I think about this the less comfortable I become with it.


Well-Known Member
The more I think about this the less comfortable I become with it.

Well, we have a week to make up our minds, but I don't see a problem - yet.

We could just have him come for the season opener next Sunday, tell him (before) that we're very concerned about his job situation and that he'll end up homeless again come June if he doesn't get a fire lit under him...and if that happens, we're likely going to stop having him come over to watch GoT because we're afraid he'll want to stay.

Yeah- that Hoovers. That won't work.

I don't know. Maybe we could just play it by ear? Dammit, I want him to come watch! It shouldn't be such a big deal for us to have our kid over for an hour to watch a TV show!

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Maybe we could just play it by ear?

It is best to be prepared. To do that, you and Jabber need to be on the same page, and you need to know why you have made the choices you have, or intend to, make. What is the objective?

Time, positive, strengthening, joy filled time with your child.

Each of us here on the site will have a different take on how to make the irreplaceable option of spending quality time with your son happen. My take is that you should do this. If it goes badly, so what.

This is your son.

Your objective here is to help him see and choose a better way to live his life. He may not make the choice you are comfortable with.

That is your son.

Take the risk. Spend the time. Prepare as best you know and that has everything to do with you and with how you see what you are trying to accomplish with him. There would be nothing wrong, and everything right, with telling your son you are so happy he is coming, and you are looking forward to it, and you are serving every food he likes and you cannot wait to see him. Along with that, if you and Jabber can understand that turning your son out of the house was a parenting decision. It is not a punishment. It is a last, desperate attempt to help him turn his life around while he is still young enough to do that without permanently affecting the course his life will take.

You do not get to control what he chooses.

What you can do is to say something like: "Because living here with us was not helping you steer a good course for your life, we still believe setting you free in the world is the best way to help you see why your highest good would be education and preparation for career. That is why you must return to the apartment we loved you too much not to pay for during the Winter months. Every time you come here to spend time with us, you will have to return to whatever life you have chosen for yourself that same night. If you have chosen life on the streets, we will return you to the streets that same night.

We love you too much to stand by and do nothing.

This is what we have decided to do, and you, and your future, are too important to us for us to change our minds unless we see a better way to help you.

To clarify: You need to make better choices, and I know that one day you will. But until that happens, though we love you, we will not support the lifestyle you are choosing. I don't know what will happen next Winter, but if we can manage to love you enough to let you take those consequences and grow from it, we are not going to pay for another apartment, ever. We are learning how to be tough enough to help you.

This is your time to take your life in a different direction than the one that seems so attractive to you, now.

Time passes in the snap of a finger.

You are 20.

One day, you will wake up 30. Do you want to be 30, living the hand to mouth existence. That is a question only you can answer, because you are the person in charge of where you will take your life.

We are doing our level best to help you see why you need to turn this thing around.

You will never spend the night at home, never do your laundry here, never blah, blah, blah, until we see healthy change in your choices.

We love you too much to watch you self-destruct, and we most certainly are not going to help you do it.

You were raised better.

Stuff like that.

You and Jabber have to squelch those feelings of guilt or responsibility for where your son is taking his life.

This is not a game.

You are behaving in the only possible way responsible parents who have tried everything else already can, in good conscience, behave. Keep your tears away from his sight. As far as he can know, you love him so much and you are totally committed to detachment parenting.

I am sorry this is happening, but if you are strong now, this may work.

In the interim, have him over all the time; love him, love him, love him.

But for his sake, stick to your guns. This will be harder than you know, right now. You will have to become very strong inside to fight through how all this leaves you feeling about yourselves.

I have had to do these same kinds of things, and it broke something in me. But my kids are standing up. My grandchildren are standing up.

The broken thing in me is still broken.

But I don't care.

The kids are doing better.

I am sorry for the pain of it. None of us wanted this for our kids or ourselves. But it is what it is. You have tried every other way.

Your son is young. You have time. You can change your mind, have him home, anytime.

Whatever you decide to do, we are right here with and for you both.

Your son is a fortunate young man.



one day at a time
I am sure he would rather watch the show in real time. But maybe that won't work for you. Maybe it's...we watch the show the next night at 6 p.m...or we don't watch the show at all.

This increasingly needs to be on your terms...what works for YOU. You are always being left in the dust and dirt by circumstances dictated by him. The way to stop that, or at least begin to limit it, is to make a plan that has a chance of working for YOU, and then sticking to that plan as much as is humanly possible. It's really hard and it takes a lot of energy from you.

But in time, much improvement occurs. And, the contact can grow even more limited at first.

For me, the contact grew even more limited for a long long time, and my peace grew exponentially.

Today, we can spend Easter here at my house, like we did last night, and cook out steaks, and eat strawberry pie, and have a really nice time at the dinner table for three hours before he left with a plateful of leftovers. When he left, we hugged each other and said I love you.

It took a long time and much discipline for me and for him for us to get to this point.

It is best to be prepared. To do that, you and Jabber need to be on the same page, and you need to know why you have made the choices you have, or intend to, make.

100 percent correct. If you just leave it to chance, and whatever happens, happens, it is very likely to be a train wreck. Why? Because you are dealing from "normal" and he is not. It makes for a very clear disconnect.

Emotions are already high, and it's a week away. Emotions will be at an all-time high that night, and without a clear plan that you agree to and will stick to no matter what (keep it very simple), things will get sideways.

Simple such as: Pick him up 15 minutes before the show starts, eat pizza during the show, take him home the minute the show is over.

No showers, no washing clothes, no money given, no spending the night, no nothing more.

Just watch the show. Which means limited conversation (hopefully).

Just be present and say as little as possible. That is a way to help the evening be more successful.

I have had a tendency to throw a whole, whole lot of words at any situation regarding difficult child. I can talk your head off and his head off.

Through all of this journey, I have learned painfully the art of silence and of saying little to nothing. My MO is still to be a talker, and I can easily lapse into it.

But I've learned and I do much better today.

I know what you want: you want what we all want, to be just a normal family, coming and going and having a good time.

That's not where most of us are with our difficult kids right now. That just isn't possible right now. So we have to behave differently. If we don't, we continue our own misery and we don't help them one single bit.

I so know how hard this is. Hang in there. We are here for you no matter what you decide to do.