Update to Help! Hes SR

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by night4now, Jun 10, 2008.

  1. night4now

    night4now New Member

    Ok, I have spent the last 2 days straight on the phone. I dont even know what day it is anymore, I swear!
    Lets start back at the bginning. So I started with childrens justice center. They said they could help us, but since the case was never prosecuted against the kid that touched the middle one, all they can offer to me is parenting classes.
    I called ISAT, intermountain specialized abuse treatment center, and they can get him in to see someone monday, but we have to pay for 100% of the visits, they dont accept either of our insurances or medicaid.
    Next I called DSPD, and they said mental health issues dont count as a disability, and refered me back to wasatch mental health.
    I called DWS to see if I could qualify him for childcare funding, to see if we could hire him a private babysitter, and they go off our income, even tho they shouldnt. We dont qualify. So no help there.
    He was never appointed a guardian ad llitem, so their office just told me they couldnt help me at all.
    Respite said they could take him, for up to 72 hours, but they had no refferals to babysitters or programs that specialize in children with sexual issues.
    Addiction and psychiatric services for the county bounced me back to wasatch mental, which isnt helping a lot anyway.
    I called every boys home, etc, asking if they knew of anyone that could help me, a shrink, an attorney, a hospital, anything, and I get nothing... big fat nothing.
    I found 6 places in the US that will take boys his age, and the closest one is 380 miles away. I find it hard to think that sending him away to inpatient care would be beneficial, since the kid already has Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD), and feels that his mom doesnt want him and left him with us.
    We have a dr appointment with the pediatrician monday, as well as the psychiatrist.
    Any more ideas?
  2. house of cards

    house of cards New Member

    Wow, you have been a whirlwind. I don't have any experience with what you are dealing with but wanted to commend all of your warrior mom efforts. I hope you get some help at the psychiatrists on Monday. You are in my thoughts and prayers.
  3. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    What about admitting him to a phosph for a psychiatric evaluation? And see what doors open after that?
  4. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    My goodness!!! Knowing how frustrating and time consuming these phone calls can be, may I just say....:yourock::warrior:

    I'm truly sorry you got the run around, or no help (same thing in my book). Have to wonder how on earth mental illness isn't a disability but that's a topic for another day. ;)

    I had a conversation with Timer Lady today. She educated me about the challenges she faced when it came to her own kids behaviors and how incredibly difficult it was to get professionals on board. I was so completely clueless. I have to apologize if my tone in your first post was out of line - I honestly had no idea of the challenges that you and others face in being heard when it comes to these kinds of behaviors. It simply boggles my mind that any healthcare professional would not see that there's a significant problem here, and that there are not services readily available. I have to wonder, where is the common sense?

    I don't think an inpatient evaluation is going to do much for your family long-term. If things are in a crisis, then yes, I'd go for it, but I think what you're needing is more concrete support in dealing with the day to day challenges and concerns with your son.

    Honestly, I don't know what to suggest other than continuing to sound the alarm loud and clear with pediatrician, psychiatrist, and therapist, and do your best in the interim to monitor the boys' behaviors.

    One thought - you and husband are guardians of the boys... were they adopted? Especially the older boy since he's not biologically related to husband? If so, are there any adoption support services available? I'm woefully uneducated about those types of services, but know that some folks on the board have been able to receive services via that route.

    Hopefully others will be along shortly with more ideas. At the very least, we're here to support you and lend a shoulder when needed.
  5. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    in my opinion, inpatient could cause the awareness to be heightened. Possibly, doctors would take notice - they also have the ability to suggest a long term therapeutic option, and require insurance to pay based on their diagnosis.
  6. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    Anything that gets an agency looking at the problem is a good thing. If you go to a parenting class and pop up with "I'm here because an abandoned unrelated child who lives with us molested my son" you might get a rise out of them.

    The next thing I am going to say, I don't want you to think that I am suggesting you throw this boy away. I'm suggesting you threaten to.

    Honestly, and without the boy knowing, I would hold the "He's not ours and you need to give us services or take him to foster care tomorrow" card over their heads. They don't want that, and they know full well that you have no legal obligation to keep him. I'd play it hard, too. If he were in a foster home, they would not only be paying the monthly fee, there would be respite care for the foster parents, medical, mental health, dental, hospital, Special Education, you name it. They just plain aren't going to take that chance.

    Don't do it if you can't do it without blinking though. You have to have a good poker face to pull it off. Make sure he's out of the house at school or with husband or something so he doesn't hear, and don't discuss it with husband where he might hear.
  7. night4now

    night4now New Member

    I always thought having a mental disorder was a disability, myself. If it hinders your day to day life and interferes with your personal and social relations, shouldnt it be?!?!?
    The Dr will jsut refer us to a Dr close by, and we see his supervisor as our psychiatrist. I will try again tho.
    We have not adopted him as of yet. His mother signed the guardianship papers before she went missing, so it is all voluntary, and there for to adopt him we must get her ruled as either absentee or unfit to get him eligible for adoption. In addition to that, it may cease his medicaid, which at least gets him some help, if not enough.
    On that note, as a voluntary guardianship surrender, she, at any time for any reason could tell the court she was revoking it and just take the boy back. And knowing that it would get her (more) welfare, housing, food stamps, etc etc, I am almost suprised she hasnt yet. That is partially why we dont threaten anything. Between her and his natural father, who made us sign an agreement we would not ask for support in any means, medical, dental, monetary, they would find either her, him, or their family and just take him.
    I am amazed, truely, that its this difficult. I was talking to the DCFS case worker yesterday asking what else I could possibly do, and she said "you jsut have to keep doing what you are doing until he is 10 and can be helped then"! Can you believe????:confused:
  8. house of cards

    house of cards New Member

    What magically happens at 10 that can't be done now?
  9. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    I'd start calling and emailing government officials and detail the run around you're getting. This is a child who is falling through the cracks in their system. List out all the agencies you've contacted along with reasons for denials for public services you've received in the state.
  10. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It


    I know how upsetting and frustrating it is to make all those calls and have NO ONE offer any real help.

    I think the age 10 thing is when the "help" is more available, because the kids under 10 "don't have these problems". ARRRGGGHHH!!!

    Call the churches. Ask what programs they know of, what other church might have or know of a program/doctor that might help. Ask them if they ahve any members who are psychiatrists etc who might be able to help. This is how I found a boy's home we wanted to send my son to. In our case, my parents decided tehy wanted to have him with them instead.

    I would also start calling and emailing state and federal level representatives and senators. They may be able to push some help your way. You will have to be very very persistent.

    Thsi just stinks for your entire family. Please remember that a younger child who is sexually aggressive CAN abuse an older child, esp one with problems. So be sure you are open with your older child, very open.

    This is hard to say. I odn't want you to think I am telling you to just ditch the child. However, you have to remember you are the protector for the other children, and you cannot let one child ruin your other children, nomatter how much you love him. And some children are so damaged they cannot live in a home setting, or with other children. I am so sorry. I don't know if you are at this point or not, but please keep it in mind.

    Hugs, and support for whatever you need to do.

  11. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    I'd have to say that having him molest your other child makes any agreement to not ask for medical, dental, etc, null and void. If scumbag mom who walked out on him wants to ask for him back so she can get more state aid, more power to her. Are they going to want to give state aid to the one that signed him away and wants a handout, or the one that has no obligation to keep him in spite of having no obligation.

    I feel obligated to point out again that if you don't get the help you need on this, and he keeps molesting your son, it is likely going to come back and bite you in the behind. If that means that you have to let go of the one in order to protect the other, you have to let go of the one so that you won't lose the other. It's not right, and it's not fair, but it is the way it is.
  12. night4now

    night4now New Member

    Let me start by defending myself. Again.
    We are doing the very best we can. I dotn sleep at night trying to figure out another way to get around something, another person to go ask for help, another wya to get noticed. I have spent Thousands on attorney fees, and doctors, and will spend thousands and thousands more, I am sure. I have called everyone i can think of, and then everyone they have refered me to.
    I keep the boys seperated as much as is humanly possible, and the occurances with the younger brother have only happend twice. More often its the little one touching the older one.
    Ten is the age where hospitals and clinics will take him, for some reason. After that it is ingrained and not just a 'behavior', or so im told.
    The DCFS agent says we are doing all we can, and a dozen shrinks say we are doing all we can. I dont feel that its all, what if i missed something? What if what if what if.
    But I REFUSE to give the boy(s) away. I have spent the last two years proving to them that they are loved, and worth love. That they are wanted, and a part of the family. That we are all in this together, no matter what. After I have held them both when they cry that their mom doesnt want them anymore and gave them away, after I downright lied and told them that she wanted what was best for them and left them with us to make sure they were safe, after i have promised i will never give them away, taht i will always be here, that i love them as much as i love my birth child, I WILL NOT go back on that. They are my heart, and I am their stability, and that isnt going to change.
    Now some people seem to think that I am not a good mom because of these things. Thats fine with me. I would like to see how you feel holding a 2 year old and a 5 year old while they scream and cry and wail that you are not their mom and their mom doesnt want them. How you feel after you dedicate your life to them, take a year off work to spend with them, and promise them you will always be there. I would really like to know how going back on that will prove I am a better person. I jsut dont see it.
    We are pulling them out of daycare. The middle one does jsut fine durring school, when he is only there a few hours. Now that its summer, I worry too much. It interferes with my work. And it kills my health.
    So we are going to go even broker (if thats possible) to get someone to come sit with them at our house. Line of sight, etc. I dont know how we will afford all this.
    In the end we only have two other options tho. We can turn him to the state, where they will put him in a group home with a bunch of other sexually agressive kids and he will only get worse. Or we can send him to one of the 5 private clinics that will take kids his age, spend a fortune, and have a 30% chance of helping him. I only see that making the Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) worse, knowing we gave him away.
  13. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    I didn't mean to suggest that you should give either boy away. I was pointing out what I know to be true in these cases. I know it to be true because I spent 4 years working with the District Attorney's office with sexual assault cases. Regardless of who you have spoken to and who you have asked for help and what they have advised to do - or not to do - should it at any time come to the attention of a mandated reporter that you were aware that there was sexual abuse happening in the home and it continued to happen, one or both of the boys will not be taken at the very least for intense evaluation, if not placement.

    I fully understand that you can not watch them 24 hours a day, and that it is not fair to the boys that anyone should be abandoned. I am just telling you what will likely happen. It's the reality of keeping the older boy. It's a "Solomon's Decision". No one can make that kind of decision for you.

    All I can say is that if it were me in your position, I'd play that card hard and fast. "He's molesting my younger son and it has to stop. You either give us services or come and get him." If CPS knows you aren't going to give him up no matter what, they have no reason to spend any money on treating him. And when the time comes that he has gone too far, they will point the finger at you.

    Rattle their cage, ring their bell, light a fire in their pants. But don't ever let them point the finger at you. All of you will lose if they do.
  14. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I agree with the above poster. Once it comes to light, the older one will not be able to stay in your home. In fact, they may decide you didn't protect the younger ones and take them all. I've been in this situation and sometimes you DO have to choose. I chose the kids who were victimized. And, yes, I loved the child who perped on the younger ones, but he couldn't stay with us.
    If you are committed to the boys all staying together, I have some suggestions that we were told we could do. You can get a videocamera and put it in the boy's room and an alarm that goes off if he leaves his room at night. That way he'll know you are always watching him. If he needs to go to the bathroom at night, at least you're awake to supervise. Never ever ever let them out of your sight. You CAN and NEED TO watch them all the time. And you need to watch him with other kids as well because if he molests Joe Neighbor, then you are REALLY in trouble. YOU are. Regardless of his background, and the good you are trying to do, it can blow up in your face. We knew we couldn't always watch the boy so we sent him away. But he was older (13) and quite dangerous on many levels.
    I wish you luck, whatever you ultimately decide to do. This is about the worst thing that can happen to a parent and you have my heartfelt sympathy.
  15. night4now

    night4now New Member

    It HAS come to light. DCFS is well aware of all the things happening in the house. As is the Shrink. They both say at the moment we are doing all we can.
    And, unfortunately, the state knows we wouldnt give him up, especially after the trouble we went to to get the kid. And, on top of that, the adoption papers are being done. I think everyone knows we wont abandon him.
  16. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member


    While it wasn't sexual abuse at our house, I did have to separate Kanga from the others because she was horribly verbally abusive and had tried to kill the others. Here are some practical things we did to make our house safer:

    1. Coded locks on all bedrooms and on 1 main level room. This will allow the 13 & 4 year old to get into a "safe room", yet not allow them to lock you out by hiding the key.

    2. Have 4-year old sleep in your room. . Assuming that the 7-year old doesn't target the 13-year old, move a toddler bed into your room and have the 4-year old sleep with you (have a coded lock on your door as well).

    3. Replace interior doors with solid wood doors These aren't as easy to break through.

    4. Hire a mommy's helper This would give you an extra set of hands to ensure that the 7-year old is under eyes-on supervision at all times.

    5. Have special days If husband and you each take a turn taking each boy out for a special day, it will separate the boys without punishing them.

    6. Explore Special Recreation options. You have to inform them, in writing, that he is sexually reactive and needs 1:1 supervision but it could give you a daytime supervised place and the others could go to regular daycamp.

    Another idea, that we didn't use because we could never convince the boys to call for help until she actually attacked, is a personal alarm that the 4-year old could push if the 7-year old gets him alone.

    We couldn't afford the really high quality ones and she broke the cheap ones we tried, but you can get an alarm that will sound whenever a door is opened inside your house so you can keep track of his movements.

    I'm sorry that you have to suffer like this. Have you tried Utah State Hospital? They take children as young as 6. I know nothing of them other than that they popped up in a web search I just did. Sometimes going to a psychiatric hospital for an emergency intake evaluation is faster than convincing others that it is a crisis.

  17. timer lady

    timer lady Queen of Hearts

    Listen to triple J. She knows ~ we put many of her interventions in place here in our home.

    On top of all that we used video cameras with sound in every room of the house with a monitor in the kitchen, husband's office & on my desk. It was approved by our SWs, the psychiatrist & tdocs. It helped more than your realize.

    night4now, there is no reason to defend yourself. I know how difficult it is to get help for this type of situation as does Triple J. We understand your dilemma & know that you are doing your best to keep your children safe. Until your difficult child reaches a certain age (most states around the age of 12) you will find it difficult to find help. I've stated before that your son's age is working against him (though I feel the sooner the better when dealing with sexual behaviors of this nature.).

    I applaud you for your dedication to these children. Please know there may be a time that your difficult child may have to be removed for long term treatment - prepare yourself for that day. In the meantime, keep up the good work.
  18. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator


    There is absolutely no need to defend yourself here.

    The only thing I would add to JJJ's post is to get it in writing from the psychiatrist and DCFS that they are aware of the problem and you are doing everything possible to effectively handle the problem. This is to help protect you. Also, the school should be notified by certified letter (return receipt) of his SR and that he needs a 1:1 immediately.

    It sounds like you have a three year waiting game. Ugh.
  19. night4now

    night4now New Member

    Sigh, yes the waiting game it is. Luckily here the age is 10, but that is a long time coming, seeing as how he isnt really 7 til next monday.
    The letters are really a good idea, I will do that, thanks. The other things are at least partially in place, and we will have to use some of them, I am sure.
    I understand that one day he may have to leave. I know that. And if it comes to the kid being in prison or hospitalizing him, we will do it. But against all odds I keep hoping that the therapy and the behavior mod program we are trying to get him into will work, and we wont ever get that far!
  20. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member


    Absolutely. And document everything you have done to protect/intervene. Document, document, document! You're doing the best you can, and unfortunately, you will likely have to defend yourself one day.