Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by AmericanGirl, Nov 29, 2012.

  1. AmericanGirl

    AmericanGirl Guest

    I spent Monday and Tuesday at the rehab attending the Family Program.

    Tuesday afternoon, I spoke with a patient advocate who said they wanted to send difficult child to an aftercare facillity they have. It is for men only and deigned to help those who have had trouble getting through the steps. (difficult child's relapses - both came when he was in Step 4.) The program is 60 days long. Highly structured. $170 a day. Insurance pays zero.

    I told him that difficult child didn't want recovery but he didn't have anything better to reach for now. He agreed and asked me to trust the process not difficult child. Hmmmm He said of the 14 beds they have, only 10 are occupied now. That's because they are very selective as to who they take down there. He said they did't want difficult child there if he wouldn't comply as he would taint the house there. That makes sense to me.

    He then got difficult child and we talked another hour. I told difficult child if I did this that he would have really short term goals. He doesn't make it, he is out. And I am not coming to get him. Also that after this, recovery can no longer be difficult child's life. He must get a job. Period. The patient advocate was in full agreement.

    Yesterday, had a conference call with difficult child and his counselor. It is a miracle that I didn't hang up. difficult child shot anger and excuses.

    Side question - do you think I was wrong to call difficult child's sponsor to ask if he knew where difficult child stashed my car? To also ask him to please not get difficult child out of jail because I wated to get to the car before difficult child did? Well difficult child has a huge issue with it and his counselor is taking his side. I agree if I asked anything about his program, his shares, etc. that I violated a boundary. I didn't. I asked difficult child to call the sponsor and ask him directly. He said he couldn't trust him anymore. Counselor still agreed with difficult child.

    Anyhow, plan is for my al-anon friend and I to drive 100 miles Wed am to get difficult child. Then 150 more to this place. Then home. I am not willing to be alone with him. God bless her for offering to come along.

    Told the rehab I am not willing to sign up for 60 days. difficult child is on a day by day status. He fails to meet goals, he's out.

    difficult child may not be at rock bottom but I am.

    I know miracles can happen but I believe it will be almost impossible to ever feel love like I once did for him.
  2. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Let me get this straight -

    difficult child took your car and hid it somewhere...

    and is offended because YOU have crossed a boundary?????

    I'm sorry, I don't understand that at all. And the counselor is taking difficult child's side?
  3. AmericanGirl

    AmericanGirl Guest

    Yep...you got it.
  4. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    AG you've been busy. First of all, many supportive hugs to you, I know you're tired. I can relate to your post specifically because in my own path with my difficult child, I got to what I considered the end-game; I made a plan to get her to "level ground" and I pulled out all the stops to get her there................and then I let go. That thinking fulfilled my own sense of the right thing to do, it felt right in my mother's heart, so that's what I did. And, once I let go, I was done. I had to do it that way so I could say to myself, "I've done everything I can for my child, she is in a place where she can take the reigns, I can sleep at night, now it's up to her." She 'appears' to be taking the reigns now, however, whether she does or not, I am still done. I reached what felt like critical mass, I went over some line within my own self and once it was crossed, everything changed. It sounds to me like you've reached that point too. You've drawn a line in the sand, my only advice would be to make sure you stick to it, regardless of what he now does. If he is finished with the program in 24 hours, so be it.............as you said, then his life is no longer about recovery, it's about living and surviving and being a grown up.

    I tend to think that it was your car so you had a right to find it. on the other hand, I can also understand your son's trust issue with the sponsor, it seems like one of those slippery slopes where there may not be a distinct right or wrong answer, you were protecting what's yours with the knowledge of past trust issues with your son and his misuse of your things............he is likely not able to see that his past actions obviously made a difference ........and his sponsor was put in a bad position............no right or wrong here, in my opinion, just a series of choices made by each individual along the way..........I can put myself in all the shoes and see it from a few angles...........but I don't think you were wrong in what you did..........

    I hope once you take him on this journey you can let go...........I can tell you this, once I did that, my life began to change significantly........... and for the better..............I wish you peace...........(((HUGS))))
  5. AmericanGirl

    AmericanGirl Guest

    thank you recovering, you and I are of one mind. I see how it looks from his point and also believe he knows why I called the sponsor. He is trying to continually make this about me, not him.

    I'm sorry you know what this feels like, however, it beats being on the roller coaster. I intend to go have a life and invest all this time, effort and money (when I get some after this last rehab) into MY life.

    What a concept, huh?

    On a bright off-topic note, I have lost 50 pounds. I'm exercising, have much more energy and sleep better. I couldn't look at difficult child and tell him to get sober without addressing my issue. Sort of a silver lining.
  6. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Wow, 50 pounds, that's a phenomenal achievement, congratulations. You must (and should) be so proud of yourself........

    And, yes, go have your life and invest everything in you, that is what I've been doing for the last few months, and it's a well earned victory of sorts, but better, it's peaceful and nourishing and fun.............I am grateful every day.................I am cheering you on!
  7. AmericanGirl

    AmericanGirl Guest

    I am so very, very happy for you!!!
  8. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    NO! 100 TIMES NO! NoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNo!!!!

    And if I am wrong; my back up answer is "Who Cares?"
    There is not even a remote possibility that this question could be answered with a "yes". Or even a "maybe" or a "hmmmm".

    Because I think we all need to make a pact. We are going to stop holding ourselves and our reactions to our difficult child kids under a microscope. I can't take it anymore.

    I can't take this constant internal dialogue inside my brain of "whatshouldIdo?" occasionally replaced with "what if I express my feelings in a kind supportive manner and it pushes him over the edge?" or "but if I keep quiet; maybe it will make things worse..." and a few times a month "if I go to extraordinary lengths to show him unconditional love and support...he is bound to realize it/reciprocate it/appreciate it....someday" and the place you are now again..."so long is there is a chance that this help could make the difference in his life, I will do it - regardless of the immense personal toll it takes on me"

    You had 10 paragraphs in your post. NINE of them were about the things you did for your son and/or accommodations you are making for him. My snyopsis of your post:

    paragraph 1) attended family program
    paragraph 2) Spoke to the rehab place, got the aftercare details
    paragraph 3) Advocated for your difficult child with the above because difficult child is too pigheaded to know and do what is best for himself
    paragraph 4) spent an hour pleading with difficult child to take this opportunity
    paragraph 5) conference call with difficult child during which he berated and verbally abused you
    paragraph 6) the only moment you stop to think about yourself is to ask WAS I WRONG? Really? Huh? What the heck?
    paragraph 7) Make plans for a crazy long road trip with a friend NOT TO A SPA OR ISLAND but to get your difficult child where he needs to go.
    paragraph 8) Communicate with rehab AGAIN and offer to pay on a day by day basis.
    Paragraph 9) Acknowledging that you are weary. hmmm I wonder why? you've had enough?
    Paragraph10) Draw a boundary because you need to protect yourself. You've poured so much into your son...(see above) you are running on empty.

    My dear friend, NO you are not wrong. And we are going to stop putting everything innocuous thing we do under a microscope while we ignore the blatantly HUGE, skyscraper size wrongs and hurtful things that our kids deflect on to us. We are not going to drink their Kool Aid. I am not suggesting we confront them over it...we just continue to detach and try to provide guidance to the path of recovery and health. Yes, that involves swallowing pride and zipping lips, and never letting them see us cry. And while we are expected to overlook their many many wrongdoings, we will not compensate for that by assuming WE must be doing something wrong.

    WE WILL NOT second guess our own heartfelt, well meaning, loving actions that we take or make in our efforts to save them from themselves!

    That is our pact. I will hold your hand and you will hold mine and we will not let our kids miserable choices invalidate US. It needs to stop.

    NO! 100 TIMES NO! NoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNoNo!!!!

    No way, never ever, uh uh uh. (That was a cheer when I was a teen)

    Keep posting, we are here. We get it, we care and I think you are an incredible mother.

    and fwiw - I think the counselor was just trying to prove his loyalty to your difficult child and that he is working for difficult child and not for you. and that's a good thing.

    many many many hugs
  9. Calamity Jane

    Calamity Jane Well-Known Member

    You already lost 50 lbs. All this while under immense stress. That's like climbing Mt. Everest with one hand tied behind your back. You're on the right road to your own recovery, which is incredible in itself. If I were you, I'd tell anyone who tries to mess with my head again to bite me. Seriously. Enough.
  10. lovemysons

    lovemysons Well-Known Member

    I so hope your difficult child is a "willing participant" in his own recovery this time. You're right...it's time to be done. You've traveled this road FOR difficult child long enough. No it is his turn to stand up for himself and his sobriety.

    I am there too as my young difficult child comes home from Prison on Monday. I have been anxious about all of this and the sale of the house, etc for awhile. But the truth is...Because I know my Sanity depends on it...All the choices AND consequences are my young difficult child's now. I can no longer carry him.
    And...enabling kills. I have to truly trust that I can't do this FOR my young difficult child any longer. It must be something he pulls together from deep within himself. G-d has been so gracious to my young difficult child with his beautiful little family. And now he has opportunites with a job handed to him as well.

    Anyway...I'm rambling. Smile...My point is, I sure see that you've done enough walking for the both of you. I'Tourette's Syndrome time for your difficult child to man up and own what is his.

    Good for you for having your supports in place. And for the weight loss while going through so much.
    I hope you continue to take good care of yourself...that "silver lining".
  11. AmericanGirl

    AmericanGirl Guest

    Sig....I love you for so many reasons. Warrior Mom doesn't begin to describe who you are.

    Thank you my dear friend for the time and effort and thought you put into your post. This one, I am printing out. I need the reminder.
  12. AmericanGirl

    AmericanGirl Guest

    Thank you LMS....Please know that my prayers and deep well-wishes are with you all when he comes out. I pray he walks the path he needs to - for everyone's best interest.
  13. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    "I see how it looks from his point and also believe he knows why I called the sponsor. He is trying to continually make this about me, not him."

    Exactly!!!!!!! When you have nothing else to go on, go on the offense!

    I agree with Sig although I could never say it as eloquently as she did. And I'm in that pact too.

  14. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    As usual I'm totally in your cheering section. I don't want to be a naysayer but sometimes the Mother in me goes into overdrive. Are you eating regular healthy meals? Fifty pounds is alot of weight and I'm hoping that alot of it is not from the ongoing stress that you've under. Hoping you are including nutrition in your focus as you, once again, move into crisis mode. Hugs DDD
  15. AmericanGirl

    AmericanGirl Guest

    DDD, yes I am being healthy about it. My oncologist (who I get check ups with after being diagnosed in 09) recommended the place I am going. No pills, shots, etc.

    I've told them all about difficult child and they have been enormously supportive. The doctor has modified my plan for the next few weeks cause she thinks I've had enough change without changing my eating plan right now.

    One thing I have learned is that I can deal with stress and intense feelings without eating.

    Plus, I cannot effectively say to difficult child...you are out of control without addressing my issue. Know what I mean??

    Thanks for checking on me.
  16. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    AG, I don't mean to sound unkind, but in my opinion it is just plain CRAZY to plan to spend ten thousand dollars on a sixty day aftercare program for a 19yo kid who has no real interest in getting sober. I probably would think it was nuts to spend four hundred a week on it, but ten grand plus??????

    The counselor is telling you to trust the program. I think he is full of bologna, and not the name brand good stuff either. The really cheap, left sitting out on the dock for a week in an Oklahoma July and now it is green kind of bologna.

    The program, the 12 steps, etc... is great. But the program is NOT going to follow the steps or rules. the program is what it is. The PEOPLE are the ones who have to follow the rules. Do you honestly, deep down in your gut where you are brutally honest with yourself even f you don't always admit it to yourself, think that sixty days of this or ANY program is going to convince your son that he has a problem AND that he truly wants to dedicate himself to a life of sober and clean living? Serously???

    I know a LOT of people who went to rehab because their family pretty much forced them to. Some of the got and stayed clean for a long time. Most did not. MANY went through many different rehabs and programs and then years later after they had really lived and were at a point where they were totally miserable, they cleaned up their acts. They went to AA, maybe they did a few trips to the ER or detox for a few days and then they went to meetings and grew up and made the choice every day.

    Until your son is mature enough to truly believe he has a problem, and that the problem is ruining his life and is not something he wants to continue, you can flush your money down the toilet. I strongly doubt that this program only has 10 people because they are so selective. It is vastly more probable that they only have 10 people because they are so expensive and it is all private pay.

    I know addicts who went to very expensive and very inexpensive and free rehabs and aftercare programs. Heck, my exsil's family and insurance companies have blown close to two hundred thousand dollars on programs for her. One was over twenty five grand a month. She still has yet to have more than four months of sobriety in over thirty years of sub abuse.

    Your son's anger at you is a great big sign that he is in no way ready for this program. By the time they get to aftercare they should be ready to at the very least accept that this is their problem, not something they blame on others. Anyone who tells you differently is after your money. I don't say this because it is my experience. I say this because I have been told this over and over and over by people who have sent loved ones to rehab and aftercare and by those loved ones who have gone to the programs. I started going to alanon when I was 21. I was preg and newly married and had just learned what a huge impact alcohol had actually had on my life. My parents were not alcoholics, but they were raised by alcoholics or those who had been raised by alcoholics. That is the family disease that keeps on giving. I learned back then that it doesn't matter how much money you throw into rehab and aftercare. What matters is that the addict comes to the decision to get sober and clean and that the addict makes that decision every single day. Every single hour or minute if necessary.

    So far your son has done nothing but attend programs and maybe not use. That is it. You have done all the work. Until you put the work and the responsibility for his life on his shoulders he simply is not going to take the responsibility for his sobriety that he must assume before any type of program has a prayer of succeeding.

    Right now your son is all up in anger at how you have betrayed him and caused his sponsor to betray him. Where is his heartfelt apology for how his addiction and abuse have betrayed and abused you? The people I have known who went through rehab did not succeed until they came out realizing that this was their problem and only their problem and no matter what anyone did or didn't do or said or didn't say that it was still their problem. The ones who came out blaming and shaming others? Didn't last a week, not even in a sober house or very restrictive aftercare. Until they truly believed that it was their fault, their problem, their responsibility and only their responsibility no matter what anyone else did or said, they didn't stay clean and sober.

    Even my rarely sober exsil has said that the only real difference between the really expensive and really cheap rehabs is how nice the place looks, how good the food is and how wealthy the families of the addicts are. Period. The addicts I know who have been through multiple rehabs have all said that it wasn't the cost of the program, it was what they, the addict, put into the program.

    You are doing ALL of the work. You are worrying about if you should have asked his sponsor where the car was. You are worrying about how he will abuse you if you are alone iwth him.

    Can you really SEE how sick this is??? I mean sick as in unhealthy. I mean sick as codependent. Maybe if he needs this program then the program will come get him or else he can get a ride with this counselor who thinks it is so important and he is so ready for it. maybe that should be part of the ten grand that it iwll cost you?

    PLEASE see a therapist or go to alanon or Codependent No More groups, whatever it takes to get YOU to a healthy mindset where you allow difficult child to live his own life and handle his sobriety on his own. No, it won't be easy. You may not hear from him for weeks or months except when he wants money or resources. Spend some of this huge sum of money on therapy for yourself and let him find a program to work. Because no matter what that money grubbing counselor says, it isn't the program that does the work. It is the addict. I have NEVER seen a program that worked unless it had people in it who wanted to be clean and wanted to make that decision every minute, every hour, every day.

    Your weight loss is awesome, and I am so proud of you for that. It truly is difficult to do, and it is wonderful. I truly admire you for doing this!
  17. AmericanGirl

    AmericanGirl Guest


    I thank you for your honesty and I truly agree with you in almost every way. The one thing that is holding me back is I have always believed that difficult child has more than one diagnosis. Without addressing that, recovery will be hard, if not impossible. As of last night, I finally got some hope that this place sees what I see. (difficult child is ADHD plus likely depressed and possibly bi-polar - a t doctor diagnosed it in January but difficult child wouldn't take medications.)

    I've been in therapy for about five years. I also have been in Al-anon for a year. I agree I need help and support before I make major decisions. I'm using that, I promise.

    My al-anon sponsor summed it up - I'm doing this for ME, not for him. If he wants to take this opportunity, okay - if not, I have ZERO guilt.

    Keep in mind that this place is only $10K IF difficult child completes the program. I'm paying day to day. I'm demanding short-term goals be set for him. If he doesn't meet them, he's out.

    And if idiot child opts to act out, I will not go get him. I will not give him money. The only thing I will do is maintain his health insurance for the short-term.

  18. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Anyone hearing signs of Lindsay Lohan? How many rehabs and she is still doing the same old song and dance.

    I cant tell you what to do but one thing that would really push my buttons was him not telling me where my car was. I wouldnt part with a dime until he gave up that info. If he is serious about wanting rehab he would happily tell you that. If not, its all lip service.
  19. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    AG, thanks for letting us know you have medical guidance for yourself. I did laugh, however, reading that you can get through stress etc. with-o eating. Most of us have found that "not eating" is the easy part. Eating regular small meals that are healthy??????...not so easy. I'm on your team! DDD
  20. AmericanGirl

    AmericanGirl Guest


    I got the car back the same morning. His ex-girlfriend told me where it was. I never asked difficult child. Cops had picked him up by then and I wasn't going to talk with him.

    He asked me later on what happened that day. Idiot must have blacked out.

    That doesn't change my rage at him. He's off my insurance. The only reason why I haven't already sold the car is a dealership friend says to wait until tax refund time.

    A guy at the sober house, call him Sam, had really worked with difficult child a few months back and helped get him in a good place. Sam had relapsed a couple of weeks prior. difficult child tried to return the favor but instead went down with him.

    Sam showed up at the same rehab two days ago. He's 23 with 3 kids. Breaks my heart for those kids.