What is wrong with me?

[Scent of Cedar *]

My husband just thinks I should be able to just "cut the cord" but I have always felt like I should help him. As they say "a mother's love is unconditional". I have the book Codependent No More and have had for years and have read it several times. I made an appointment with my psychologist for Feb 1st. I tape all of my sessions with him and go back and listen to them but know what I need to do but have trouble doing it. My husband is such a good man. I feel like I am not being fair to him. This is a terrible place to be in

I know everyone is going to disagree with me here, but I do not think it is helpful to label ourselves or anyone else. You are a mother of a child who is self-destructing. You are on a desperate quest for answers, and there aren't any. So you take responsibility: You blame yourself. In a normal situation, this would be a successful way to live a life. Taking responsibility, doing what we can to change our situations instead of blaming anyone else, and moving on.

We are parents children who are self-destructing.

There are no answers. There is no solution.

It is so hard to stop trying to figure out what happened. It is so impossibly hard to stop believing the kids will claim the lives we worked to make possible for them if we just try harder. If we could just figure out how this happened, where we went so wrong or how it was that everything happened as it did, then we could make it okay.

The question is less what to name ourselves than it is how to begin living our lives with gratitude and honor even though our children suffer and so do we.

How do we do that.

That is the question.

***

So many things here on Conduct Disorders have helped me, Okie girl. It helped me very much just recently when one of us posted about the concept Radical Acceptance. If you google it Okie, it will hit home in a stronger way for you than if I include a link for you here. That is the other thing we all need to hold close to our hearts: The pain is a living, sharp-toothed thing, new every day, for us. We are actively grieving; the grief is ever fresh. As the kids grow up and have children of their own, the nature of live grief takes on shades and colors even we knew nothing about.

But. We love our kids. We do our best that we know.

Terrible things happen. Things we don't understand. We need to stop beating ourselves up. We need to stop naming ourselves terrible names and believing those bad words about ourselves or we will not survive what is happening to us, and to our children we love.

***

We are living in the heart of the worst pain there is. We are mothers and fathers who love children who are self-destructing. We cannot rail against cancer or any outside force, because our children are destroying themselves. We cannot mark a date, an anniversary of grief we can fear and marshal our courage and get past...because our children are actively engaged, every single day, in destroying themselves and their lives and they have nothing, nothing at all, and they suffer.

And they are taking us down, with them.

And we don't even know why this happened, or have any idea how this happened...and so, we tear into ourselves. Over time, old trauma and new trauma and dread for the trauma surely headed our way tomorrow break us, somehow. But the terribly destructive things continue to happen. Our children continue to suffer.

For us to survive what is happening to all of us, we need to acknowledge, not that we might be codependent, but the impossible pain in the situations of our children for us. We do not credit ourselves with the raw human courage required to love a troubled adult child. We do not see our own bravery, or credit our loyalty. Because the problems are never resolved, because our troubled children somehow continue being troubled and every day it is something new and something worse, we develop a mindset that we will be happy one day when the kids are okay. We tell ourselves this or that sacrifice will be the thing that will turn things around for our children...but it never does. Our own lives become unrecognizable to us. Here is a secret thing that I know: Those who come here to Conduct Disorders loved our kids with joy and passion and believed we were great parents and believed our kids were great kids, or we would never have felt badly enough long enough to have found this site. So now, when our kids that we have loved so much every morning of our lives are in such trouble...we don't recognize ourselves or our lives, anymore.

It's like striding confidently into the day and learning someone amputated one of our legs in the night.

Down we go.

So bewildered, down we go.

Very important for us to recognize the nature of the broken place in the heart that we live from when our children are troubled. Once we recognize and accept the horrible truth of what is happening with our kids, day after day and year after year, then we can begin to recognize our own bravery, our own loyalty, our own courage and our love for our kids. Then, we can love ourselves, and stop beating up and berating ourselves. And that is how we become strong again.

It's a strange place to be, Okie girl.

But you are a very strong woman; a fighter, or you would not have found us. From the way you post about your D H, he is a strong man, a good man, and committed to you and your children.

My D H is a good man, too.

We saved one another, the way you and your D H are doing.

You are here with us now, Okie girl. Finding this site made all the difference in the world for me.

I am glad you are here with us.

Cedar

 

[New Leaf]

It begins one day, one step at a time.
Redirecting focus.
Taking our lives back.
You have value and worth and so does your hubs.
Our relationships and our lives matter.

Our d cs are out there, making their choices.
They learned, because somewhere down the line
we have taught them
with our responses to their drama,
that they can always come back and rely on mom or dad.

We think that we are loving them.

I have looked at this over and again, what is love?
When we rescue our d cs, is it love?
We are at the winter of our lives,
what will they do when we are gone?
Who will they turn to?

If we self destruct along with them,
are we showing them by our own example how to live?
How to love?

Redirecting our thoughts and concepts,
changing our responses,
is the best way to really, really help them.

We have been drawn into a cycle of chaos,
as their behavior escalates,
so has our desperation for their situation.
They are making horrible choices.
We are aghast and mystified at their lifestyle.
Every part of our being
screams a deafening silent drawn out Nooooooo!

This no, takes over our lives,
focuses our attention
to do everything in our power
to stop the madness.

But we do not have the power.
We do not have the control.
They would have us think that maybe we do.
It keeps us in the game. It is a trap.
We have entered the madness.

As our lives go sinking down with them, they would have us stay there.
We become literally and figuratively hypnotized by the crazy ever swirling whirlpool of drama and desperation.

The noooooo turns to yes, over and over.
And we are miserable.
The yes may satisfy us momentarily,
but it is not working.
They are still making horrible decisions.
And so are we.
Everyone is miserable, they are entrenched in their choices, and so are we.
Everyone is miserable.
Does our misery help them?
No.
Is our being miserable love?
No.
It is desperation.

Love is not desperate.

Love does not create an empty hole inside of us and nothing fills it.
I think enabling is a disease as much as addiction is.
Enabling and addiction hold hands.

I think addicts (our d cs) have an innate sense,
know how to triangulate and
choose which parent will continue to play their game.
They are focused on their choices, and so are we.
It is a nasty, never ending swirl of crazy chaos.
Here we are, stuck smack dab in the middle of it.

Love is not desperate.
Love does not keep asking, over and over for hand outs.
Love does not say, " I am going down the drain, come along for the ride."
Love does not tread upon our hearts and beat us down over and over again.
Love does not abuse, and use.

Love stands up and says, "NO!"
"NO, I will not blindly fund your choices.
No, I will not lay down my life, and follow you.
No, I will not play this game."
The nooooooo screaming in your head, at the chaos of your adult child's life, can be turned into a positive response.
That response is emphatically NO!

Because love says no.
Just no.
No more.
I am done.
Done with this game.
I love you, but not your choices.
Love is not easy.
Love does not allow things.

Love says
"You need to get your $#*+ together"
It is a James Cagney slap in the face,
snap out of it dammit, no I will not put up with this.
Love says, " There is a good life out there, go on and grab it."

Grab it Okie.

Your hubs is loving you.
He is showing you by his words, what you need to do with your son.
He is telling you " I will not go down with this ship."
You do not need to go down with the ship.
That is love.
Show your son, how to respect and love himself by your example.
Love and respect yourself.
You have value, you matter.
Love says No, Okie.
You can do this.
If you feel you do not have the strength, go get help.
Sometimes it takes another human being to look us in the eye and tell us what we do not want to hear, what we won't hear from our closest people.

You can do it.
Your life and your sons life depends on it.

Because love says no.
No more.

(((Hugs)))
leafy

 

[Childofmine]

Hi Okie girl, I've been out of town for a week and am now back to reality and just catching up with your post here...I think you are getting lots of good thinking and support. Just wanted to add in as well...

A heart and mind can only take so much abuse.

I think this is very true. I think this actually is a good day---good for them and good for us---when we are so sick and tired that we have to stop. We just have to. We can't do it anymore. It doesn't mean we don't love them...that continues on...but we can't be involved with them anymore. We are done.

we are protecting ourselves and there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's a smart thing to do.

Tanya said it best: it's a smart thing to do. I don't know how smart I was when I finally got done with Difficult Child...I just couldn't do it anymore. Later I started to see that it was smart to stop. Smart for both of us. I love the story here about the man who finally had enough time in jail to think about his life and he got out and went in a completely new direction.

Anybody, at anytime, can decide to change...and can start walking down a new road. Your son can. And you can. That is what it takes to take charge of our own lives (and them, their own lives). Can you see the parallels in you and him? We are really on our own journeys---we Warrior Moms and our grown DCs----but those journeys are strangely parallel. We keep on doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result...and so do they. It's when we ALL stop...and turn...and go in a new direction...that things start to change.

just wish my son could get his life together. He is 44 years old!

Please ponder your own statement here. He is 44 years old. It is way, way, way past time for him to stand on his own two feet. Not calling Mommy anymore. Not bringing his problems to you. He must deal with the choices he makes in his own life.

So...if that is true...what is our role? As mothers? I believe this, our role is to love them (which may mean from afar with no communication for a long time) and to encourage them.

If your son is an addict, then there is not one single thing you can do to help him. In fact, I believe our drug-addicted adult children's help will come from anybody but us. I found that to be true with my son, and realizing that...and really claiming that knowledge...helped me let go and detach. I could not and was not going to be the one to save him.

We have to look at ourselves, and love ourselves enough to fight.

Yes, we do. We have to rebuild our own self-esteem. Okie girl, I call this the 51% rule and the 49% rule. We have to be 51%---the most important person in our own lives...Ourselves. Not anybody else. This is completely counter-cultural in terms of women and mothers. Women and mothers always put everybody else first, right? No more. That's then, and this is NOW. It's time for us to be #1. That is not a selfish thing, but most of us were taught that putting ourselves first is selfish. Not. It's time.

What is wrong with me??

There is nothing wrong with you. You are tired and beat down. Of course you are! It's time to start identifying what you want and need in your life. What do you like? What do you want? What do you need? Spend time and energy making that happen, the big and little things. Turn the bright light that you have been shining on him for 44 years onto yourself. It's your time now.

He will have to figure things out. Give him the time and space to do that. You will know if he does change, believe me. You will see it and hear it and it will slap you in the face.

In the meantime, work on yourself through this forum, Al-Anon meetings, reading books, meditating/praying, resting, spending time with your husband...big and little things...changing yourself. It takes time and it takes work for us to change and reclaim our own lives and find peace. Most of us just want peace, and once we start to taste peace, we want more and more of it.

Please keep that Feb. 1 appointment. That time is for YOU. keep on moving forward one day at a time, a little progress at a time. We're here for you. Warm hugs today.

 

[okie girl]

Dear Okie Girl...

You don't need to cut off your feelings for your son. He will always be your son, and you will likely always carry him in your heart.

But. Sometimes it is helpful to pull back a little and look at the big picture. You want to "help" but... is this kind of "help" actually helping him? Or is it just maintaining the status quo. Sometimes, our "need" of being the "helper" overrides common sense. Putting yourself in debt to help someone who isn't prepared to help themselves doesn't make sense. Use your head. Protect yourself - and your relationship. Your son doesn't have the right to destroy you or your other relationships.

I know I need to change and make my marriage priority. I'm going to step back and take a day at a time. I thank you so much for taking time to reply. It really does help.

 

[okie girl]

Okie, everyone else has been giving wonderful advice and encouragement so I've chosen not to comment until now. I seem to be very similar in attitude to your husband. One thing that the Corps teaches you is accountability. If you make a mistake, OWN IT! It is very difficult for us to look at someone else who is being coddled and having their mistakes covered and not be confused. Add to this the fact that most who go into any branch of the service tend to have a great desire to protect. I can tell you from personal experience that I've had times that resisting the urge to beat the living crap out of our son because he was causing Lil pain. Usually, the only thing that kept me from doing it was knowing that if I did that then it would cause her even more pain. Its a very frustrating way to live. I've never given her this ultimatum but also wont deny that the thought has crossed my mind. Sorry honey. Then we both got, basically, on the same page and it got a LOT better for us. Being on a different page about your children will cause all kinds of friction for no good reason.




That's complete and utter crap. Your "child" is a 44 year old MAN! Lil may see this and comment.



Its a guy thing. I've said it before but it bears repeating here. Women tend to be nurturers and there is never really an end to that. Men tend to be preparers. Once the preparation is complete and they are out the door, we are basically done. Not that we don't love and care for our children, but we've prepared them to be accountable and successful and expect them to sink or swim on their own. Doesn't mean we wont help from time to time, just means that we tend to wait till they've gone down for the last time before stepping in.

Oh Jabber....you have given me something to think about for sure. He said when they turn 18 they should be accountable and should man up. I'm so glad you responded to my post. This has given me a lot to think about....

 

[okie girl]

Hi Okie girl, I've been out of town for a week and am now back to reality and just catching up with your post here...I think you are getting lots of good thinking and support. Just wanted to add in as well...



I think this is very true. I think this actually is a good day---good for them and good for us---when we are so sick and tired that we have to stop. We just have to. We can't do it anymore. It doesn't mean we don't love them...that continues on...but we can't be involved with them anymore. We are done.



Tanya said it best: it's a smart thing to do. I don't know how smart I was when I finally got done with Difficult Child...I just couldn't do it anymore. Later I started to see that it was smart to stop. Smart for both of us. I love the story here about the man who finally had enough time in jail to think about his life and he got out and went in a completely new direction.

Anybody, at anytime, can decide to change...and can start walking down a new road. Your son can. And you can. That is what it takes to take charge of our own lives (and them, their own lives). Can you see the parallels in you and him? We are really on our own journeys---we Warrior Moms and our grown DCs----but those journeys are strangely parallel. We keep on doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result...and so do they. It's when we ALL stop...and turn...and go in a new direction...that things start to change.



Please ponder your own statement here. He is 44 years old. It is way, way, way past time for him to stand on his own two feet. Not calling Mommy anymore. Not bringing his problems to you. He must deal with the choices he makes in his own life.

So...if that is true...what is our role? As mothers? I believe this, our role is to love them (which may mean from afar with no communication for a long time) and to encourage them.

If your son is an addict, then there is not one single thing you can do to help him. In fact, I believe our drug-addicted adult children's help will come from anybody but us. I found that to be true with my son, and realizing that...and really claiming that knowledge...helped me let go and detach. I could not and was not going to be the one to save him.



Yes, we do. We have to rebuild our own self-esteem. Okie girl, I call this the 51% rule and the 49% rule. We have to be 51%---the most important person in our own lives...Ourselves. Not anybody else. This is completely counter-cultural in terms of women and mothers. Women and mothers always put everybody else first, right? No more. That's then, and this is NOW. It's time for us to be #1. That is not a selfish thing, but most of us were taught that putting ourselves first is selfish. Not. It's time.



There is nothing wrong with you. You are tired and beat down. Of course you are! It's time to start identifying what you want and need in your life. What do you like? What do you want? What do you need? Spend time and energy making that happen, the big and little things. Turn the bright light that you have been shining on him for 44 years onto yourself. It's your time now.

He will have to figure things out. Give him the time and space to do that. You will know if he does change, believe me. You will see it and hear it and it will slap you in the face.

In the meantime, work on yourself through this forum, Al-Anon meetings, reading books, meditating/praying, resting, spending time with your husband...big and little things...changing yourself. It takes time and it takes work for us to change and reclaim our own lives and find peace. Most of us just want peace, and once we start to taste peace, we want more and more of it.

Please keep that Feb. 1 appointment. That time is for YOU. keep on moving forward one day at a time, a little progress at a time. We're here for you. Warm hugs today.

You have given me so much good advise COM and I appreciate it so much. I need to start using your 51% rule. This is something I have never done but I am going to start today. I love my husband very much and I need to work on my marriage. I feel so thankful for all the wonderful people who take time out of their busy day and make me feel so much better...thank you again

 

[Jabberwockey]

He said when they turn 18 they should be accountable and should man up.

I've had many different experiences with this. When I first got out of boot camp and went home to visit, I was hanging with a friend at a bar. We had hung out there when we were both in school, playing pool and such. We didn't cause trouble so the owner never said anything. They served food so didn't have to worry about police involvement unless we caused trouble or got caught with liquor. Anyway, my friend had turned 21 and we were sitting at the bar waiting on our turn at the pool table. My friend ordered a beer and the owner asked if I wanted one. I informed him that I wasn't 21 yet. He looked at me and said "You're in the military, right?" I said yes. He said "If your old enough to die for your country, your old enough to have a beer." then got me one.

The reason I mention this at all is a BIG part of the reason he sold me a beer wasn't that I was in the military although that did play a part. It was how I carried myself. I behaved responsibly and respectfully. I was accountable by being honest about being under aged and manned up by not trying to get drunk and abuse the privilege that he had allowed. I would dare say that under similar circumstances, most of our Difficult Child's would have happily taken advantage and gotten sloppy drunk or telling their under aged friends that he sold to minors.

This is where the problem comes in with over protecting our children. They must learn these lessons themselves, no matter how painful it might seem. And the problem with major life lessons like this is that they cant be taught, only learned.

 

[okie girl]

I know everyone is going to disagree with me here, but I do not think it is helpful to label ourselves or anyone else. You are a mother of a child who is self-destructing. You are on a desperate quest for answers, and there aren't any. So you take responsibility: You blame yourself. In a normal situation, this would be a successful way to live a life. Taking responsibility, doing what we can to change our situations instead of blaming anyone else, and moving on.

We are parents children who are self-destructing.

There are no answers. There is no solution.

It is so hard to stop trying to figure out what happened. It is so impossibly hard to stop believing the kids will claim the lives we worked to make possible for them if we just try harder. If we could just figure out how this happened, where we went so wrong or how it was that everything happened as it did, then we could make it okay.

The question is less what to name ourselves than it is how to begin living our lives with gratitude and honor even though our children suffer and so do we.

How do we do that.

That is the question.

***

So many things here on Conduct Disorders have helped me, Okie girl. It helped me very much just recently when one of us posted about the concept Radical Acceptance. If you google it Okie, it will hit home in a stronger way for you than if I include a link for you here. That is the other thing we all need to hold close to our hearts: The pain is a living, sharp-toothed thing, new every day, for us. We are actively grieving; the grief is ever fresh. As the kids grow up and have children of their own, the nature of live grief takes on shades and colors even we knew nothing about.

But. We love our kids. We do our best that we know.

Terrible things happen. Things we don't understand. We need to stop beating ourselves up. We need to stop naming ourselves terrible names and believing those bad words about ourselves or we will not survive what is happening to us, and to our children we love.

***

We are living in the heart of the worst pain there is. We are mothers and fathers who love children who are self-destructing. We cannot rail against cancer or any outside force, because our children are destroying themselves. We cannot mark a date, an anniversary of grief we can fear and marshal our courage and get past...because our children are actively engaged, every single day, in destroying themselves and their lives and they have nothing, nothing at all, and they suffer.

And they are taking us down, with them.

And we don't even know why this happened, or have any idea how this happened...and so, we tear into ourselves. Over time, old trauma and new trauma and dread for the trauma surely headed our way tomorrow break us, somehow. But the terribly destructive things continue to happen. Our children continue to suffer.

For us to survive what is happening to all of us, we need to acknowledge, not that we might be codependent, but the impossible pain in the situations of our children for us. We do not credit ourselves with the raw human courage required to love a troubled adult child. We do not see our own bravery, or credit our loyalty. Because the problems are never resolved, because our troubled children somehow continue being troubled and every day it is something new and something worse, we develop a mindset that we will be happy one day when the kids are okay. We tell ourselves this or that sacrifice will be the thing that will turn things around for our children...but it never does. Our own lives become unrecognizable to us. Here is a secret thing that I know: Those who come here to Conduct Disorders loved our kids with joy and passion and believed we were great parents and believed our kids were great kids, or we would never have felt badly enough long enough to have found this site. So now, when our kids that we have loved so much every morning of our lives are in such trouble...we don't recognize ourselves or our lives, anymore.

It's like striding confidently into the day and learning someone amputated one of our legs in the night.

Down we go.

So bewildered, down we go.

Very important for us to recognize the nature of the broken place in the heart that we live from when our children are troubled. Once we recognize and accept the horrible truth of what is happening with our kids, day after day and year after year, then we can begin to recognize our own bravery, our own loyalty, our own courage and our love for our kids. Then, we can love ourselves, and stop beating up and berating ourselves. And that is how we become strong again.

It's a strange place to be, Okie girl.

But you are a very strong woman; a fighter, or you would not have found us. From the way you post about your D H, he is a strong man, a good man, and committed to you and your children.

My D H is a good man, too.

We saved one another, the way you and your D H are doing.

You are here with us now, Okie girl. Finding this site made all the difference in the world for me.

I am glad you are here with us.

Cedar

It begins one day, one step at a time.
Redirecting focus.
Taking our lives back.
You have value and worth and so does your hubs.
Our relationships and our lives matter.

Our d cs are out there, making their choices.
They learned, because somewhere down the line
we have taught them
with our responses to their drama,
that they can always come back and rely on mom or dad.

We think that we are loving them.

I have looked at this over and again, what is love?
When we rescue our d cs, is it love?
We are at the winter of our lives,
what will they do when we are gone?
Who will they turn to?

If we self destruct along with them,
are we showing them by our own example how to live?
How to love?

Redirecting our thoughts and concepts,
changing our responses,
is the best way to really, really help them.

We have been drawn into a cycle of chaos,
as their behavior escalates,
so has our desperation for their situation.
They are making horrible choices.
We are aghast and mystified at their lifestyle.
Every part of our being
screams a deafening silent drawn out Nooooooo!

This no, takes over our lives,
focuses our attention
to do everything in our power
to stop the madness.

But we do not have the power.
We do not have the control.
They would have us think that maybe we do.
It keeps us in the game. It is a trap.
We have entered the madness.

As our lives go sinking down with them, they would have us stay there.
We become literally and figuratively hypnotized by the crazy ever swirling whirlpool of drama and desperation.

The noooooo turns to yes, over and over.
And we are miserable.
The yes may satisfy us momentarily,
but it is not working.
They are still making horrible decisions.
And so are we.
Everyone is miserable, they are entrenched in their choices, and so are we.
Everyone is miserable.
Does our misery help them?
No.
Is our being miserable love?
No.
It is desperation.

Love is not desperate.

Love does not create an empty hole inside of us and nothing fills it.
I think enabling is a disease as much as addiction is.
Enabling and addiction hold hands.

I think addicts (our d cs) have an innate sense,
know how to triangulate and
choose which parent will continue to play their game.
They are focused on their choices, and so are we.
It is a nasty, never ending swirl of crazy chaos.
Here we are, stuck smack dab in the middle of it.

Love is not desperate.
Love does not keep asking, over and over for hand outs.
Love does not say, " I am going down the drain, come along for the ride."
Love does not tread upon our hearts and beat us down over and over again.
Love does not abuse, and use.

Love stands up and says, "NO!"
"NO, I will not blindly fund your choices.
No, I will not lay down my life, and follow you.
No, I will not play this game."
The nooooooo screaming in your head, at the chaos of your adult child's life, can be turned into a positive response.
That response is emphatically NO!

Because love says no.
Just no.
No more.
I am done.
Done with this game.
I love you, but not your choices.
Love is not easy.
Love does not allow things.

Love says
"You need to get your $#*+ together"
It is a James Cagney slap in the face,
snap out of it dammit, no I will not put up with this.
Love says, " There is a good life out there, go on and grab it."

Grab it Okie.

Your hubs is loving you.
He is showing you by his words, what you need to do with your son.
He is telling you " I will not go down with this ship."
You do not need to go down with the ship.
That is love.
Show your son, how to respect and love himself by your example.
Love and respect yourself.
You have value, you matter.
Love says No, Okie.
You can do this.
If you feel you do not have the strength, go get help.
Sometimes it takes another human being to look us in the eye and tell us what we do not want to hear, what we won't hear from our closest people.

You can do it.
Your life and your sons life depends on it.

Because love says no.
No more.

(((Hugs)))
leafy

Oh Leafy...I know you are so right. I am seeing my psychologist next week. You have given me some wise advise. I am going to stay busy and try to stop thinking about Difficult Child all the time. Yesterday I called my dog by my Difficult Child's name! I have got to stop this madness. I am so appreciative for all the support I have here on this forum...bless you all

 

[Copabanana]

We do not credit ourselves with the raw human courage required to love a troubled adult child.

How I love this post of Cedar's.

I wrote a couple of posts yesterday, that I do not love so much, when I felt sad and very sick.

I had spent the night before, all of it, vomiting black blood.

The gist of my offending posts was this: I am a damaged and defective person who never had a chance.

When the opposite is true: I may have been damaged and defective but I took advantage of every opportunity that came to me in my hard life and ran with it.

And my son does not.

And I am willing (in fact), clamoring, to cut off my leg and whatever other body part I can, believing that if I do, somehow I can make sense of my pain about my son. And myself.

Because the horribleness of our situations is that we believe that we have failed. Even if we can cite their rap sheet, their diagnoses...we still would rather cite our own...substitute our own defects with the hope that we can win....It is my fault, It is me. Please spare my child.

Those who come here to Conduct Disorders loved our kids with joy and passion and believed we were great parents and believed our kids were great kids, or we would never have felt badly enough long enough to have found this site.

This is so true. How did I never think about it.

Had we not always loved our kids and felt we won the lottery, the great pain would never have come that unites us all in this.

So now, when our kids that we have loved so much every morning of our lives are in such trouble...we don't recognize ourselves or our lives, anymore.

Yes.

Once we recognize and accept the horrible truth of what is happening with our kids, day after day and year after year, then we can begin to recognize our own bravery, our own loyalty, our own courage and our love for our kids.

I am still wanting after reading this passage to say--in my case it is my fault.

My son that I know of has not been arrested. As far as I know he has not used hard drugs. My reactions to him to want him away from me are not valid. I need to feel loving and accepting. What kind of mother feels this kind of antipathy towards her own child? Why can I not be stronger? What is wrong with me?

How did I fail so miserably?

And that is the crux of it, I think. This is what we did and still do. Accuse ourselves. This is what has to stop. The self-accusation. I do not know how to do it. Because in my case my son one week ago showed up at my door. And I do not want him in my town. To feel this way is not normal. And so it goes.

COPA

 

[Copabanana]

Yesterday I called my dog by my Difficult Child's name! I have got to stop this madness.

We are all in the same club, Okie girl. I love that you called the dog your difficult child's name.

COPA

 

[InsaneCdn]

My reactions to him to want him away from me are not valid.

And why not? They are YOUR reactions. They come out of history - most recently, your child's actions and reactions to YOU. Anybody with half a heart and half a brain would be reacting. You have more than half a heart, and more than half a brain, Copa. You feel, and you think. And sometimes... the two don't add up. We know. We are there, too.

Why can I not be stronger? What is wrong with me?

Stronger in standing up for yourself? Or stronger in "taking" what he dishes out?
Which is stronger, in reality? I think you already know the answer, you just don't feel like it is the answer.

How did I fail so miserably?

Really. Really? And how are you measuring "success" or "failure"? Could, perhaps, the measuring stick be faulty? How are YOU to determine success or failure, anyway. If you had not adopted him, he might have been dead by now, or horribly abused, or already a career criminal. You have NO way to know what might have been, no way to understand the difference you HAVE made. All we see is "what is" - and we try to make a judgement from that. And we fail - because we don't know the before, we don't know the after, and we really don't know what is going on inside the person either, so we don't even really know "what is".

A parent who goes to prison for abusing their child, may be labeled a failure. Someone who is trying and learning and in the process... is not a failure.

 

[okie girl]

Copa...in my opinion I think you are very strong. You had the strength to tell your son to leave...I applaud you. I hope you are feeling better. I know all of this turmoil we are in affects our health. We are all in this together (((Hugs)))

 

[Hopeful97]

Okie,

I am sorry that we are all dealing with the chaos of our adult children.

Your son must take responsibilty for his life. Distance, mot taking calls etc., is I feel the best thing for a while. It really helps me and can be very difficult when they are in the same neighborhood or close by.

I try to look at it like this when d c asks for financial help, is this helping him or is this going to have a hand in hurting him.

Keep your therapy appointment, that is a good thing for you.

Please make yourself and your marriage the priority.

HUGE BEAR HUGS,
Hoeful

 

[Albatross]

Okie girl, I am sorry you feel so torn.

I have done a lot of thinking about what it means to love unconditionally. Surely it can't mean spending all of our hard-earned savings, dying at their feet, giving up all that WE hold dear, hurting and neglecting the ones who love US unconditionally? That isn't love, that's martyrdom.

What do you see as required of you, in order to feel you are treating your son lovingly?

 

[Copabanana]

What do you see as required of you, in order to feel you are treating your son lovingly?

Wow, I loved this post, Albatross.

What is love of an adult child? It cannot be self-destruction. It cannot be self-flagellation. It cannot be self-accusation. Or betrayal of self.

It has to be something positive for both adult child and parent: mutual respect, reciprocity, support to be one's best self, devotion to the benefit of each.

Thank you.

COPA

 

[BusynMember]

Love has nothing to do with money. Loving unconditionally does not mean doing what the loved one demands of us even if it hurts us and them.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[okie girl]

Love has nothing to do with money. Loving unconditionally does not mean doing what the loved one demands of us even if it hurts us and them.

Just a few thoughts.

This is so true....I am beginning to see the light. Reading and posting has made me look at my actions in a new light. One time I had a counselor tell me "you feel the way you tell yourself to feel". I find this to be very true but hard to do.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

My son that I know of has not been arrested. As far as I know he has not used hard drugs. My reactions to him to want him away from me are not valid. I need to feel loving and accepting. What kind of mother feels this kind of antipathy towards her own child? Why can I not be stronger? What is wrong with me?

How did I fail so miserably?

I feel antipathy toward my children, Copa. Even my grands, when they are following wrong paths. It isn't that I don't love them. I do. I do not love what they are doing to themselves.

I do not love that, at all.

It's repulsive.

***

You did not fail. Your son is committing moral atrocities against the man that you raised him to be.

True.

Of course you are not loving and accepting of that. Again Copa, this is about behaviors and lifestyles and thinking patterns that you raised your son better than to engage in. There is no way for you to feel you are loving and accepting right now unless you are willing to love, and accept, the immorality at the heart of your son's current choices.

That is the issue, here.

The kids try to trick us (and everyone else) into believing there is something the matter with us ~ that we are not loving enough, and that that is why these terrible things are happening to them.

How rotten of them, to do so.

He is a man, Copa. He is choosing to do what he does though he knows better.

That is why M said: "She merits respect."

You are his mother, Copa. He should not be doing what he is doing. There is nothing more to say.

***

Better you should be a strong center for him to return to Copa, than a soft place for your son to turn himself into a vicious and arrogant beggar living on your charity through your willful blindness to the wrongness in his choices. In your son's choices of vulnerability Copa, I see the same targeted manipulation of you that my children have engaged in with me.

Where your heart breaks, where you become FOG bound ~ that is the tender spot, the vulnerable place, where you can be manipulated. The baldness you cannot see; the vulnerable little boy within your son who is really a grown man, but who parades those vulnerabilities before you to break you so he can have what he wants.

I couldn't believe it when I finally could see that is what my children were doing to me, either. One of the parents here on P E had to point it out to me too, Copa. I was blind as a bat to what my kids were doing. Here is the thing: Our kids didn't grow up like we did. They were raised to have more integrity than to target our vulnerabilities ~ than to break us ~ to get what they want.

Copa. The only thing you ask of your son is that he work if he refuses to go back to school.

***

Here is another way to see what is happening with your son. (I don't so much care about your son, actually Copa. I care very much about you.)

True.

This is a phase your son is going through. See it like that, Copa. Remember who is right, and who is wrong, here. Like when he was three or two and got into a phase and you wondered whether he would ever grow out of it. Just as you did not crumble then, just as you did not question whether toilet training or table manners or wearing clothing was really all that important after all ~ just as you held the line then, you must do so, now.

That's good advice.

I should listen to myself.

***

There is nothing wrong with you. There is nothing wrong with your son. The situation is horrifying and we will never know the why of it or we would have found and corrected it by now so the why behind any of this cannot matter.

What matters is how you survive; is how you come through it. What matters is whether you pull yourself together in an ethical way so that if and when your son is able to move into a different place in his life, you are there and strong and healthy.

Copa. That is the only thing that matters because that is the only thing we have any control over or even, that we can effect at all.

I am so sorry you were sick, Copa.

***

That one of our children has been arrested, or has used hard drugs or is addicted or mentally ill ~ none of those things Copa, in and of themselves, destroy love or empathy. None of those things, in and of themselves, are evil. It is the underlying thought pattern attending criminal activity that we don't understand and cannot abide. We did not raise our children this way Copa because we are not this way ourselves. These kinds of victimizations, these repeated moral slippages turned habit are abhorrent to us. How then could we abide it in our children?

So, that your son has not been jailed or used drugs does not make what he is doing okay.

What he is doing is morally wrong.

It is the lack of empathy and the advent of cruelty in its thousands of guises and the hectoring viciousness of our children's senses of entitlement that turn our hearts. (How many threads have we had on those hard, empty eyes in our children's faces?!? Or on the filthy, unbelievable things they say to us, to their own mothers and fathers, when finally we stand up to them and stop giving them money and make them leave and won't buy them another car?)

Now I forgot where I was going with this.

This is what I do know. We protect our kids from the way we feel about the things they do by turning those feelings onto ourselves. I think all moms (and dads) do this. But for those with hurtful childhoods, those feelings we turn onto ourselves to protect our kids break down barriers erected for us to survive what happened to us in our dysfunctional families of origin.

So, we are really in terrible positions. And once we are, our rotten dysfunctional families of origin swoop in for the kill, too.

So, this is all so much harder for us than it is for those raised in healthy environments.

That is okay, though. Once we realize what is happening, we can address it. We need to keep what we know about being hurt when we were little kids separate from what our children, who were not hurt like we were, are doing. Our children were not raised to do what they are doing. We were raised to do those things, to be broken people without integrity, and we refused.

I expect nothing less of my children. But when they do bad things, I don't want to know that about them. So, I fix things, instead.

We need to stop fixing things.

The kids need to stand up.

Our job is to come into steady state. Is to see clearly and stop protecting those we love by blinding ourselves to what is happening.
Then we can tell them true things. Things that can help them if they want to change, and that will not hurt them if they don't want to change because nothing hurts them when they don't want to change.

Again, we are all time-blasted here, because our own parents and sibs are such poops.

Nonetheless, that is our job. We need to do that the best way we know. No one said being the mom (or the dad) was going to be a happy thing. We just believed it was because we loved our kids so much and were so happy with ourselves and with them. How great that we had that time. Now is a different time.

We are not the ones who need to change, here.

The kids need to change the way they are thinking and the things they are doing. For their own sakes, for the sakes of their lives and of their own children, our kids need to change their ways. It would be very wrong of us to present to them a world where what they are doing is okay. What the kids are doing is not okay. What they want, and what we cannot give them, is for us to be afraid of them and of ourselves to the degree that we pay their consequences. That we let them move into our homes because they spent all their money to "feel" better about themselves. That we raise their children because they are as mean, and as irresponsible, to their children as they are to us.

That turns me feral, to think about what they do.

But we aren't supposed to say anything about that. In fact, we are supposed to be guilty about that.

Which we would do, if it helped anyone.

But it doesn't.

And these behaviors our kids are engaging in are stupidly dangerous. Stupid, because though so much is being risked, nothing at all is being gained by our adult kids but that they feel better about themselves.

Huh.

How good have we been feeling about their need to feel better about themselves.

We really literally don't have time to mess around with things (like guilt) that don't work.

We really cannot enable.

We need to stop that. (I need to stop that, even in my words when I am talking to my kids.) If our kids are ever going to become the men and women we raised them to be, we need to stop our enabling behaviors.

That is the right thing to do.

Cedar

Thank you Copa and Okie girl. I needed to have a look at some of this for myself. The thing is that as time passes, we let our guards down and forget how to function (and survive it psychologically intact) when our kids are messing up.

So, I needed this, too.

And IC response. I liked that alot.

Thank you, IC.

 

[Tanya M]

One time I had a counselor tell me "you feel the way you tell yourself to feel". I find this to be very true but hard to do.

This is so true. One thing that helps is to put positive quotes on sticky notes then put them on your mirror or other places you can see them often.
"I will feel joy today" "I choose happiness" "I will not dwell on the negative, I will focus on the positive"

 

[New Leaf]

I feel antipathy toward my children, Copa. Even my grands, when they are following wrong paths. It isn't that I don't love them. I do. I do not love what they are doing to themselves.

I do not love that, at all.

It's repulsive.

I feel the same way. Cedar I am going for my walk, but I have to tell you everything in your post rings true. Every bit of it.

It is the banality of evil.

Our kids throw us into this rabbit hole.

We have got to see what they are doing and fight our way out.
Do not fall down that slippery slope of self destruction, blaming ourselves, feeling guilty, getting physically ill.

We need to stop it.

We cannot stop what the kids are doing, but we can stop reacting this way.

We are not blind, and we are not fools.

We love them, but we do not love what they are doing.


leafy