When are you morally obligated to give in?

[AppleCori]

JulieAnn,

I'm so sorry.

What a terrible thing he did to you.

He shot heroin into his leg, causing himself great bodily injury, then sent you a picture of it to guilt you into fixing this for him.

He is in the hospital now, which is the best thing for him. Just don't let them bully you into bringing him to your house to recover. He needs professional help. If he will, they should put him into medical rehab or assisted living (I think he has untreated mental health issues?) or drug rehab. Whatever he qualifies for. Professional help. You aren't qualified to help this.

If he does go to your daughter's house, be aware that he will then be only two hours from your house. One way or the other, it will come back on you so prepare your response.

Hang tough!

 

[DoneDad]

You're doing well. You can't control what your daughter does either. Just make it clear - he's not coming here. Period. If she takes him in you know it's going south in a hurry so be prepared for them both pleading for rescue. Send her a text or email explaining that you won't be coming to the rescue when it all falls apart. Keep it and show it to her when the time comes.

 

[Tanya M]

JulieAnn, I'm so sorry you are going through this. It is such a painful thing when our children are in such a desperate state.
I'm coming in a little late on this thread. I'm glad to hear he went to the ER. Your son needs long term residential treatment as heroine is not a drug you can kick easily and he has to decide that's what he wants to do.

Don't be so hard on yourself for getting him a hotel room and buying him a pizza. There is no one size fits all answer when it comes to dealing with our Difficult Child. You did what you felt was the right thing at the time.

I don't think your daughter has a clue as to what she will be doing by letting your son stay with her but that's on her.

He has options. You say there is a shelter with drug intake. If he wants help he needs to go there. He'll have a million reasons he can't. Your response to him needs to be simple and consistent - "go to the shelter". He can save his life, but you can't.

And you definitely can't by having him move into your house.

Him - Mom, my leg is swollen and I may have hepatitis. Can you put me up in a hotel for awhile

YOU - No, that won't work. Go to the shelter.

HIM - I can't go there. It's like prison with all the rules.

YOU - I can't help you. Go to the shelter

HIM- I'm hurting. Can you at least send me some money. I haven't eaten for days

YOU - No I can't help you. Go to the shelter

You get the idea.

To answer your question, you are never morally obligated to help somebody kill themselves.

I think DoneDad said it very well.

((HUGS)) to you and know that you are not alone. Hang in there, you will get through this.

 

[JulieAnn]

Wow. Big lesson here. You all are so right on.

The Master Manipulator, a.k.a. Difficult Child, really got me this time. It was pretty much a big fake out. I called the hospital. No one there by that name. SHOCKER! (Not). He may have gotten his leg cleaned up somewhere but that's it. I asked him to text me a picture of his hospital bracelet. He say's "Sure! and the Dr wants me to stay off my leg so can I get a room until Tues when the rehab bed is available"? Send me the picture.

Waited. I never got one. Then he tried to get a week of a motel from his sister.

I left out all the crying, pleading, begging. The minute that he saw I wasn't going to budge, the crying miraculously stopped. He's too good to go to the shelter. Really? The street is better? "I can't get local assistance unless I have an address". The SHELTER IS AN ADDRESS. Geezzzz.

This time, I'm only out 3 nights and a pizza. I'm getting a little quicker thanks to you all!

 

[Tanya M]

I called the hospital. No one there by that name.

asked him to text me a picture of his hospital bracelet.

Very smart JulieAnn.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

This time, I'm only out 3 nights and a pizza. I'm getting a little quicker thanks to you all!

You did amazing.

I cannot even believe it. Good job, Julie Ann. When our daughter was homeless, it was so awfully hard on us. But I think she would do almost anything now, not ever to put herself in that position again. She called once as a blizzard was beginning, wanting a room for she and her "boyfriend". When we said yes to one night, she immediately pressed for three, too. And first we said no. And neither D H nor I slept at all that night in our warm bed. So we decided to rent her something deplorable until we came home for the summer and learned our own daughter had been blacklisted from even the worst dives in the City. That blacklisting would not have shown up had we rented a room in our name, with our credit card. And we would have been responsible for damages.

So we had to leave her on the streets.

And that was a very hard thing.

Cedar

 

[BusynMember]

I wonder if the picture of his leg was real. Did he include his face? He could have snatched the picture from somewhere else.

I'm glad you stood your ground, JulieAnne!!

 

[susiestar]

Be proud of yourself! You didn't give him money. You didn't bring him home even when your daughter added her guilt trip. You called to verify his story. in my opinion that call to the hospital is a HUGE step forward for YOU!

Now you know how low he will stoop to scam you. Take the photo he sent you and print it out. At least the size of a whole sheet of paper. On the back write down a short description of this event - what he did, what you did, when and how you learned the truth, how he reacted to you learning the truth. Most importantly write down how you FELT as he did this and then when you learned the truth. Put it near where you talk on the phone to him. Leave it out or put it into a folder labelled "Addicted Child's Calls" and open it as you answer the phone each time he calls. Keep that UGLY photo, along with the description of events and your feelings, so that you will be able to avoid the trap of his manipulations and sob stories. use it as part of your Warrior Mom armor to stop yourself from tumbling down his rabbit hole.

In the archives there is a list of simple responses to the things our adult children say t get us to give them what they want. they work and you can practice them so that they are automatic responses to whatever it is that our kids want us to react to. Post these by your phone or put them in your folder so that you can see them as you talk to your son.

 

[JulieAnn]

You did amazing.

I cannot even believe it. Good job, Julie Ann. When our daughter was homeless, it was so awfully hard on us. But I think she would do almost anything now, not ever to put herself in that position again. She called once as a blizzard was beginning, wanting a room for she and her "boyfriend". When we said yes to one night, she immediately pressed for three, too. And first we said no. And neither D H nor I slept at all that night in our warm bed. So we decided to rent her something deplorable until we came home for the summer and learned our own daughter had been blacklisted from even the worst dives in the City. That blacklisting would not have shown up had we rented a room in our name, with our credit card. And we would have been responsible for damages.

So we had to leave her on the streets.

And that was a very hard thing.

Cedar

Oh my, that had to have been so agonizing.

My only saving grace is that he does not have children. I can't even go there, in my mind.

I've learned so much in this forum. I could never have done it without it. If he even used half of the energy it took to try to manipulate into helping himself, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Now you know how low he will stoop to scam you. Take the photo he sent you and print it out. At least the size of a whole sheet of paper. On the back write down a short description of this event - what he did, what you did, when and how you learned the truth, how he reacted to you learning the truth. Most importantly write down how you FELT as he did this and then when you learned the truth. Put it near where you talk on the phone to him. Leave it out or put it into a folder labelled "Addicted Child's Calls" and open it as you answer the phone each time he calls. Keep that UGLY photo, along with the description of events and your feelings, so that you will be able to avoid the trap of his manipulations and sob stories. use it as part of your Warrior Mom armor to stop yourself from tumbling down his rabbit hole.

It is truly unbelievable. Thank you, and I will absolutely take your advice. It's easy to forget. Warrior Mom's UNITE! No, he will not take me with him. He has not excuse for this. Zero.

 

[JulieAnn]

I wonder if the picture of his leg was real. Did he include his face? He could have snatched the picture from somewhere else.

I'm glad you stood your ground, JulieAnne!!

Well, he sent a 'before' and then he sent an 'after'. It had definitely been tended to by a medical professional. It was pretty gross. No, it didn't include his face. It looked like his leg from what I could tell, from a Mom's perspective anyway. My personal opinion is he tried to shoot into his leg and it got infected.

 

[JulieAnn]

Morning everyone. Quick question.....How long does it usually take until they 'get it' after your only reply to text messages requesting motel, food, etc. is GO TO THE SHELTER. I'm not answering phone calls anymore, so the texts are non-stop.

I do not, for the life of me, understand why anyone would choose a life of this, this daily neediness.

I know I made an error when I started this, by getting the motel, worried about the health of his leg. But I've really been sticking to my guns. Arghhhhh. This is killing me.....

 

[BusynMember]

Put the phone in a drawer or block his number temporarily. He'll get tired of it. By the time, maybe three days from now, when you hear from him again, should you choose to, he'll be over whatever he's upset about. Let's face it, as a heroin addict, he will have a lot of extra drama to distract him from this drama. Good for you for giving him the info then letting him do what he wants with it. He has the knowledge. Now he needs to take action.

 

[JulieAnn]

Ok. Good. I'll do that. He said in one text that he almost got arrested last night. I pray that happens. It may be the only thing to save him now. Thank you SWOT.

 

[Tanya M]

How long does it usually take until they 'get it' after your only reply to text messages requesting motel, food, etc. is GO TO THE SHELTER. I'm not answering phone calls anymore, so the texts are non-stop.

Everyone is different but I will tell you that sticking to your guns will pay off. Up until now he has been able to manipulate you by telling you how dire his situation is. Remember, our Difficult Child count on our emotions, they want us to feel sorry for them and they will go to many lengths to make that happen. By keeping your responses simple and without emotion he will learn that he can no longer manipulate you.

This however does not mean that he won't try something new once in a while to see if he can catch you off guard.

I have also found with my son that no matter how bad his situation was my suggestions on how he could change things for the better were always met with an excuse as to why that wouldn't work.

You are doing really well JulieAnn.

 

[JulieAnn]

Everyone is different but I will tell you that sticking to your guns will pay off. Up until now he has been able to manipulate you by telling you how dire his situation is. Remember, our Difficult Child count on our emotions, they want us to feel sorry for them and they will go to many lengths to make that happen. By keeping your responses simple and without emotion he will learn that he can no longer manipulate you.

This however does not mean that he won't try something new once in a while to see if he can catch you off guard.

I have also found with my son that no matter how bad his situation was my suggestions on how he could change things for the better were always met with an excuse as to why that wouldn't work.

You are doing really well JulieAnn.

Yes, I think you're right Tanya. The stories get more extreme and urgent. "How can you do this to your own son"? I did this? Okay. I'm just not bailing him out. "But I'm going to rehab tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow". I'm not looking forward to the next tragedy.

I know, I can't believe that being on the street is better then a shelter. The excuses seem totally fabricated. I'm sure they are....

 

[Tanya M]

"How can you do this to your own son"?

Funny how they never see that they have done this to themselves and can't understand why we get tired of bailing them out of the trouble they get into. They just continue to blame everyone else while it's crystal clear they did it to themselves.

 

[Childofmine]

JulieAnn my son was a very tough nut to crack. After I started consistently saying no, it was like his full time job was to break me. And it worked several times. One day he texted me more than 250 times. He was homeless at that point on the street during the cold Christmas holidays in a city four hours away. Finally what got me to react that time was him saying his computer charge cord was broken and he had ten percent battery left. I caved. I would get really tough and stay tough and then he would come up with a new "thing" and I would cave again.

Finally, slowly, I was able once again to set new boundaries. This happened over and over until I got strong enough to stick to it.

So...to answer your question...it takes a while and usually they ramp up the drama and chaos again and again and we oblige them. Until finally we don't anymore. You will stop when you are sick and tired enough to stop and not one minute before.

Get ready and get tough. It is very hard to do with someone you love. If you cave in, that is understandable. This is the hardest stuff you will likely ever have to do in your life.

Hang in there. We are here for you.

 

[JulieAnn]

JulieAnn my son was a very tough nut to crack. After I started consistently saying no, it was like his full time job was to break me. And it worked several times. One day he texted me more than 250 times. He was homeless at that point on the street during the cold Christmas holidays in a city four hours away. Finally what got me to react that time was him saying his computer charge cord was broken and he had ten percent battery left. I caved. I would get really tough and stay tough and then he would come up with a new "thing" and I would cave again.

Finally, slowly, I was able once again to set new boundaries. This happened over and over until I got strong enough to stick to it.

So...to answer your question...it takes a while and usually they ramp up the drama and chaos again and again and we oblige them. Until finally we don't anymore. You will stop when you are sick and tired enough to stop and not one minute before.

Get ready and get tough. It is very hard to do with someone you love. If you cave in, that is understandable. This is the hardest stuff you will likely ever have to do in your life.

Hang in there. We are here for you.

Thank you COM. I think I would have done the same in relation to the cord.

I blocked him on my phone. SWOT's suggestion and I think it's a good one. For 3 days. My daughter is leaving him available incase anything really bad happens. I just need a break. She's not responding to him so that's good.

I'm trying so hard to be tough. I feel that if you wonderful people can do this, I should be able to.

It gives me hope, as your Difficult Child is doing so much better. I don't think it's ever totally hopeless. I'm willing to do this if there is a chance in the world for him.

I couldn't have done any of this without you all.

 

[JulieAnn]

Funny how they never see that they have done this to themselves and can't understand why we get tired of bailing them out of the trouble they get into. They just continue to blame everyone else while it's crystal clear they did it to themselves.

Yessss. He told me Eff you because I wouldn't get him another 2 nights. What is this sense of entitlement? I asked my daughter, you grew up in the same home, same way. So why? I worked my tail off to give them a good home and he looked at it as a never ending 'gift' and my daughter looked at it like 'this is what you do to have a good life'. I know, I know, brains work differently.

I always thought that my claim to fame was that I kept him from getting into trouble as a teenager. A couple nights, I actually slept on the floor by the front door so he wouldn't go out in the middle of the night. Long before that, I had to Liquid Nail the windows shut in the kids rooms. I did it to his and then he started going out his sisters window - so I did that one.

It's just my constant, endless, questions......

 

[Tanya M]

It's just my constant, endless, questions......

And there are really no answers. I finally got to a point that I don't wonder "how did this happen"
I am at a place of acceptance, it is what it is.

A couple nights, I actually slept on the floor by the front door so he wouldn't go out in the middle of the night. Long before that, I had to Liquid Nail the windows shut in the kids rooms. I did it to his and then he started going out his sisters window - so I did that one.

You did everything you could to try and keep him from getting into trouble while he lived in your home. He no longer lives in your home so now it's up to him.