"You should know which assignment it is" not the right words for a 504

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by TerryJ2, Jun 7, 2011.

  1. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Arrgh! I can see teachers getting frustrated but this science teacher is getting on my nerves. I have a call into the school counselor to try to straighten it out.
    Right now I want to strangle both my son and his science teacher.
    Plus, the science teacher and Spanish teacher have not updated their online grades so I have no idea where difficult child stands.
    Thanks for letting me vent.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2011
  2. Terry,

    I so get this! This was our experience throughout middle school and high school with difficult child. Some teachers got it, most didn't.
    In many cases, the 504 plan was completely ignored despite our hard work to teach and inform.

    If I had a magic wand, I'd use it to make sure all teacher believe in and accommodate autism. I'm really hoping that school in your area is out for the year soon, so you can get some rest!

  3. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Terry, in my years of experience spending time hearing teachers talk, I know exactly what this teacher is doing to you. Whether he is doing it in a calculated manner or not, I have heard a LOT of teachers do it and a lot of teachers tell them they are being complete idiots and worse than the students.

    The teacher is trying to get you to stop being involved. For some reason teachers who are in middle schools feel it is there duty to make the kids think that they cannot rely on parents to help with ANYTHING. Teachers in the grades after middle school are often very frustrated because parents do not call, do not send emails or letters until things are really really bad, not when they start. Middle school teachers seem to feel that any parent who wants to know what is going on is somehow interfering with school and their job and that parents have NO RIGHT to know anything that is going on. They truly expect our kids to tell us the right info and for us to never question what our kids tell us. At the same time they do NOT want to believe anything that a child says, even if it is about a fact being wrong and the student has reputable sources to prove that in fact the student is correct. NOT ALL are like this, but middle school seems to be a magnet to this type of person. They largely feel kids in elem school have been coddled too much and they depend on their parents to much so the kids don't bother to try to understand assignments, etc.... A child iwth a 504 or IEP is often thought to not "really" have problems or a diagnosis, they just have parents who coddle them or interfere too much.

    Teachers here on the board: I DO know that most teachers are NOT like this, but there is a persistent group of them that seem to often teach middle school years and they are amazing in their belief that parents should have NO input on what happens at school and should not question anything that happens or even have much info on the topic. They are a minority but they are vocal and often try to get sp ed kids so they can "help" them become more mature - by treating them like all the other kids and punishing them for having IEPs that expect the teachers to do anything different for them.

    I have also heard teachers complain about this subset of teachers - in quite a few districts. One of the bad things about being a teacher's kid who pays attention to adults is that you hear all this stuff, lol.

    Terry, the science teacher is trying to make you feel defensive and like a bother because he doesn't really want parents to know what is going on. He is acting like all students should be the same and be treated the same, and that parents should accept what he posts online when he posts it and not expect him to do more/different for anyone. He is deflecting your comments on grades not being entered and online class assignments and homework not being posted on the internet with criticism to make you feel out of line so that he can get away with not doing what he is supposed to do for all the kids (keeping things updated so kids and parents know grades and what is assigned and due when) and also not follow the iep.504 for his students.

    For some reason they feel that by middle school all problems should be outgrown. TOtally bizarre thinking, but it is what it is. My dad always had the sp ed kids in his classes - even when he taught shop he had blind and deaf kids and they did the work too. But he knew that each kid in sp ed or just falling through the cracks needed something extra and whether it was on an iep or not he did it. Heck, he had at least one kid each year who was NEVER in one of his classes but would be sent from the sp ed teacher to him. Often they carried a box of books to him and anohter one back to their teacher - not because the books needed to be moved but because it gave a break and carrying something heavy gave sensory breaks that were needed. For a couple of years there was a girl who would just start to rage out of nowhere and would go through the halls banging things and fussing and fuming and sometimes yelling. But if she caught sight of my dad, even his back, she started smiling. Why? "because Mr.Susiestar's Dad will bite my neck." Of course he wouldn't, and she knew it, but he told her one day that if she didn't stop that nonsense he was going to bite her neck. She did. He didn't. But it worked on her for all the time she was in his building. Lots of times she would be all ranting and fuming in class and the teacher would send her on an errand past my dad's class and she stopped while she could see the door to his room. I thought he was joking until one day I was there with him and watched it happen.

    Do NOT let this guy sidetrack you. You have EVERY right to know what the assignments are and when they are due. If he changes a due date it should be on his webpage and the online grade book. I am sure there is a district policy about it. If he pushed you on this, go to the principal and ask why you are told that you should not ask questions when things are not up to date on his webpage and gradebook. Let the principal know that you expect the teacher to comply with those and with the 504 and you will go to the superintendent if necessary to get an answer why he doesn't keep things up to date in accordance with district policy.

    For a long time I thought it was just my dad's school that had teachers who do this. Then I saw teachers do it to friends of mine as their kids went to middle school. Then my kids went to our middle school wehre they do not even want parents ont he premises except for rare PTA functions (four per year. Period.) Several times they told me I had no right to go see my kid's locker contents, to talk to a teacher (even when I had an appointment with the teacher set up ahead of time - the office would not let me go to wehre I was supposed to meet the teacher and would not send a note or call the teacher to tell her I was in the office!) I actually had the principal try to scold me for going into the cafeteria because parents are not allowed int he cafeteria during lunch time. Yeah, that was his policy because he did not want parents to know he was the only adult in the lunchroom and he sat on his fat tush with a microphone and ignored the kids unless he wanted to yell into the microphone about something. Kids were literally throwing things around - food, pencils, pencil cases, binders, books, shoes, etc.... and he spent his energy telling me why I couldn't be there instead of telling any of the kids to stop.

    So your best way to go is to not get off topic on what YOU should know or difficult child should tell you, but focus on why he cannot do something basic that is his J.O.B. he won't like it but he will get the message. And if he messes with difficult child, go to the principal and cc the superintendent of schools and head of the school board. It gets their attention. Also, when you ask for the info, mention that his legally binding 504 agreement says that this will be done.

    Sorry to ramble, but thsi is what I HATED about middle school as a kid in middle school, as a teacher's kid listening to them talk, and as a parent of kids in middle school
  4. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    been there done that. So VENT AWAY!!! And feel free to strangle whomever it pleases you! :rofl: They've got it coming.

    Seriously, though -- I can really relate to the insanity of putting the onus back on a difficult child to remember to do things when the remembering is the very thing they struggle with.

    I was just reviewing difficult child 2's IEP and while he has a goal of using an assignment calendar to prioritize assignments and meet due dates, it is not stated HOW he's supposed to do this nor what will be done at school to help him REMEMBER to do this. And clearly I can't be the one to do it if I'm not there to follow him around all day long.

    So I suspect there may be another IEP meeting to address the gaping holes that do not cover the if-then scenarios.

    Good luck with the school counselor. I hope you get some resolution to the madness.
  5. keista

    keista New Member

    My son has the same exact goal. Let me know how it works out getting those gaping holes to close. Every time I try addressing them (the holes) they decide it's more important to "move on" and cover all the info in the IEP. Oh, I gave up a few years ago and just battle it out with the teachers that refuse to "try harder" to accommodate son.
  6. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Thank you. Sigh.
    I've got a mtng at 11:30 Thurs.

    by the way, difficult child got a GREAT score on his Standards of Learning test for English and a good score in math. It is SO NICE to be able to reward difficult child instead of scold him for a change!
    Of course, the min I told him his reward, he started negotiating for more ... leopards don't change their spots. :)
  7. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    LOL! Yes, it's frustrating and it's bad in middle sd and can be worse in 9th grade- they expect more each year from students, 504, IEP or not. Sometimes that's good I guess but sometimes it seems like they just don't get it (sd people). It sounds like you're getting this under control though so that's good.

    Congrats to difficult child for a good SOL score!
  8. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Susie, thanks for that explanation. Given our experiences it does make sense. With difficult child 1 he was 17 when we had a meeting at the school with his teachers to try to explain his needs. We had the therapist there also - made no difference. The attitude was, "Why must we coddle this kid? If we do he will never cope with the real world."
    We said, "We know he won't cope. But the 'coddling' is not the problem. He will simply need more time and more support during that time. When he leaves school - that is our responsibility. Until then, his needs must be met. That is your responsibility."

    difficult child 3, in his elementary school, had a different teacher each year. We heard of one teacher who refused to teach him. I was happy with that - anyone who didn't want to teach him was best kept well away from him. But eventually she got the gig, and although she saw herself as a champion for all her students (including difficult child 3) she did go the wrong way about it, constantly, and would not accept any advice from professionals. In fact, she saw this advice as meddling from amateurs. In the year she had difficult child 3, he missed half of it because his anxiety was so extreme that he was vomiting at the mere thought of school, even though he said he wanted to go there. When he was vomiting at school this teacher said he was bunging it on, he was making himself sick in order to get out of school. At the same time she insisted there was a physical cause to his illness and we were unfit parents if we accepted any 'lesser' diagnosis, such as anxiety. So we wasted most of the year trying to find a physical cause that was not there. At least we thoroughly ruled out any physical cause!

    Now looking back, I can see that the aim of difficult child 3's teacher, and of other teachers difficult child 1 had, was to get me to stop coddling my kids and they would be fine.

    I remember explaining patiently to difficult child 1's Ancient History teacher, about how he needed to work visually and he was not good at having to stand up in front of the class to give a talk. I emphasised that talking to difficult child 1 was not the best way, he needed to read the information. Talking to him - he would zone out. So I was flabbergasted when the teacher came to me and said, "I kept difficult child 1 in at lunchtime the other day and we talked for about half an hour on what I expect from him in this subject. He seemed receptive, he had good eye contact, he listened patiently. I think I finally got through to him. He'll be fine from here on."
    I was blown away by the man's stupidity. I told him I valued his efforts and his caring, but when difficult child 1 was apparently paying attention and making eye contact, his mind was undoubtedly miles away. I said that unless he did a quick comprehension check afterwards, there was no way he could be sure that anything had sunk in. I also said, "We've been working on these problems with him since he was 6 years old. And you cured him with just a half hour talk! I congratulate you, you must write this up, I'm sure Lancet will want to publish..."

    And that was one of the GOOD teachers!

    I agree, not all teachers are like this. The teachers at difficult child 3's school are amazing. But I have found that where a school in general has this sort of attitude in any of the staff, and the attitude cannot be corrected, the problem tends to permeate the whole school and you are never going to make an impact sufficiently to ensure your child gets treated fairly. Rather than stick it out to prove a point or change the system, for the sake of your child you need to get out of there.

    What happened at our local school - for years I tried to help them change and move into the 20th century (which is needed before you can head for the 21st). But the only thing that eventually had an impact, was when enrolment numbers dropped so low that a new principal was appointed. The old teachers were encouraged to take early retirement or do refresher courses. difficult child 3's worst teacher had a bad meltdown in front of her class (I think it was the pressure to acknowledge that teaching had moved on in the last 40 years and she hadn't done any inservice training) and is one of those now knitting doilies at home. But I still would not send my kid back there.

  9. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!


  10. ML

    ML Guest

    This thread is scaring me.
  11. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    ML ... lol ... :) Just keep swimming, swimming, what do we do ? lalaalalala la la