22 year old son with ADHD, depression in debt! Wants me to pay off his loans!

Discussion in 'Failure to Thrive' started by LostSoul1, Mar 21, 2018.

  1. LostSoul1

    LostSoul1 New Member

    My son has a long history of depressive behavior. He has been in and out of living with me but had to leave finally after trying 4 times to live with me over a period of several years....you can read up on my background.

    He moved out finally...and i mean for the final time. He is on Disability for his mental illness. Rents a small studio apartment. I always thought he would have done better in a group home, but he refused as well as my suggestion to go on a waitlist for a group home if living alone didn't work. I'm basically his social worker, visit him every 2 weeks, help with laundry, groceries. He has a close friend who seems like a great person and a positive influence.

    He's been doing ok, taking his medications everyday. He refuses to do anything except pay pokemon all day with his friend. In a way i am glad he isn't just isolating himself and it has helped him socially. However, he tends to spend all his money...and then comes to me for more money to loan him.

    So this morning i am awakened by a 6am phonecall...which i dread always wonding what is going on. He told me he needs to pay off a 'pay day' loan...you know from those cash places who charge interest rates on the loaned money. I had already paid off a $700 loan less than a month ago. Now he tells me he has a $1100 loan that he 'forgot' about. It is 2 months overdue. I told him he needs to find a job! quickly. He says he knows but don't think anyone would hire him. He has worked before...strong, tall...he has gained weight but if he worked i'm sure he would lose the weight. I told him i would think about it....but the way he spoke it sounded like he was thinking about starting to look for work. Also he promised me he would go to the walk in clinic to get his medications refilled.

    So he called me later in the day asking if i could go by tomorrow with him to pay the loan. I asked him if he went to the clinic as he promised...nope he said, he was 'too busy'. Then he tells me he has 'another' loan that he forgot about of $600!!!! I lost it and told him first thing, he needs to get his medications refilled and then go to the employment office that helps people with special needs find work. He was pleading with me to help him. I said i can't...over $2000! I pay for his cell phone, wifi, and buy him basic groceries of $200 a month!

    I can't pay off his loan....i am really afraid for him, he said he has nothing to live for.....he tried every trick to make me give in. I am convinced he will milk me dry! He literally has social supports down the street, but refuses to get a social worker. Now he is threatening to give notice he is moving out and will be on the street as he needs to pay the loan off....i said this is your problem! These are the consequences and if this doesn't motivate you to find work....nothing will!

    I am trying to be strong, but can't help feel guilty....what should i do??
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  2. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    He is pulling out all of the stops to scare you. He is using the magic words he knows you want to hear. (like work.) I would bet most are lies.

    I would not be sure these are payday loans. This might even be extortion by him. Or he could have drug debts.

    The thing is where will it ever stop if you pay.

    I know how scary this is. And how horribly it hurts to set a boundary by saying no, especially when you fear for them. But think of it this way: what is in his best interest? By that I mean, what will bring him closer to being accountable and responsible. A good person.

    He is a man. But he is your child. We have to choose where we stand. Do we respond to the baby he no longer is. Or the man he must be. A diagnosis is not a reason to not be a good and responsible person. That is what I think.
     
  3. LostSoul1

    LostSoul1 New Member

    Thank you Copa...that really puts things in perspective. I have been spinning my wheels for years hoping he would step up and take responsibilty.

    I urged him to go to the mental health centre and speak to a social worker about this. He says he is stressed, getting constant phone calls and he fears the interest rates will keep increasing. He blames his impulses from adhd that make him spend money and make hasty decisions.

    i know in my heart he needs to step up.....i hope this will put the fire under him to take action. But he says e ven if he found a job it would take long to find and he would likely end up quitting because of his anxiety.....

    i dunno...seems like a hopeless situation.....time clicks on and the interest on his loan accumulates. Will he end up being summoned to court for nonpayment? Arrested??

    What options does he have?
     
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    How can he get a Payday loan with no job? They make sure the person has income to pay the loan back. Suspicious.

    I agree with Copa. Sounds like drugs.

    You can't save him. He has to save himself. I would not pay any bills. He will keep doing it. Whatever he is REALLY doing.

    I would insist he use social services and I think he needs a Payee to pay his bills for him. Look into it please. Don't beggar yourself. He knows exactly what he is doing.

    I have always had severe amxiety. 10 per cent of the people do. We work. He can use The Department of Rehab Development to get placed in an appropriate job. I have a high functioning autistic son and that is how he got a job and autistics all have sky high anxiety.

    My son has a private payee (not family). His checks go there and they pay his bills. He gets money left over but it is just enough to get by with social activities and other things. He has a food card. He asks for nothing from us. We are very proud of him.

    He also gets disability but often makes too much to get full disability. He has a Case Manager who is a doll. Your son can do many things. If he refuses to, that is on him. My son is 24 and has been independent and on his own since 20.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
  5. Dory

    Dory Member

    Hey LostSoul1
    Far out it's hard!
    I am really sorry for your pain.
    I do think the best thing for you and your son is to totally distance yourself from him.
    You need to stand your ground and put up huge boundaries.
    Please have someone with you while your son comprehend s that theses are YOUR rules.
    You have a life too.
     
  6. ksm

    ksm Well-Known Member

    Do you know why he us getting these loans and what the money is used for? Is his friend taking advantage of him?
    Ksm
     
  7. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    Hi LS,

    I am not sure how your son would get such large loans from a PayDay Loan company. I am not familiar with how they work, but it sounds like his monthly income is derived totally from SSI, which means he could never pay off the balance while continuing to pay his own living expenses.

    Do you have independent proof that he actually has these loans, or is it just him saying it?

    My understanding of government Social Security benefits is that they can’t be taken or garnished if there is a judgement put against him. Since he has no other income, I don’t think the creditors have any way to collect from him.

    Yes, they can take him to court and get a judgement, but i don’t know how they would get their money (not saying this is right, only that this is my understanding. You can check online or call SS to know for sure, I could be wrong).

    Does he gamble while playing Pokémon?

    Does he take drugs?

    I would say, if these debts motivate him to get a job, so much the better. I would encourage it as long as it doesn’t interfere with his receiving benefits.

    And remember, this is not your problem. If he has to go to court, it may wake him up (if his story is indeed true). He needs a wake-up call.

    Apple
     
  8. Triedntrue

    Triedntrue Active Member

    I agree you need to find out what the money is being used for. If his disability is paying rent and i assume utilities and you are buying groceries what is he spending 2400 dollars on. That is not a small amount. My son has done the same to me . you have to call a halt. If you must help at all buy things don't give him money.
     
  9. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    As of 1994, when payday loan shops started popping up in Chicago, husband and I stopped in at one out of curiosity, and pretended we wanted a loan just to get a look at the paperwork.

    Other than being horrified at the interest rates, we discovered that you don't need a job. You just have to have a checking account, and give them a post dated check.

    You can extend the date on that post dated check indefinitely, as the exhorbitant interest piles up and up.

    Now, laws have tightened in some ways since then, and loosened in others. Payday loans houses can now do signature loans in some states. I am not sure what the requirements are for those.

    It's remotely possible he does have some sort of very high-rate small signature loan somewhere or a check loan that's rolled over.

    You don't need a job to open a checking account, just enough funds to meet the minimum requirement and a clean checksystem report.
     
  10. LostSoul1

    LostSoul1 New Member

    Hi Everyone...you are all so wise and knowledgeable.

    I live in Canada and he is receiving a disability benefit called ODSP - Ontario Disabiltiy Support Plan. You are correct - it seems as long as you have a bank account you can qualify for a loan. To my knowledge, he doesn't do drugs, or drink except socially the odd time if he goes out. His friend is 10 years older than he is - honestly, he seems like a wonderful person, he himself says he is against drugs, alcohol. I have never heard a curse word out of his mouth.

    In fact, i have to say, since he met his friend J he seems gentler, happier in his demeanor, and not as angry as he once was.

    HOWEVER, as i mentioned, he kept trying to convince me to pay his loan. i stood firm and kept repeating 1) needs to get his medications first from walk-in clinic as he is out of them. 2) Go to employment centre to connect to find a job - he has gone thru this course they offer 2x - he claims he still isn't ready to work.

    To which i said to him - if this doesn't motivate you to find a job - nothing will. if in fact these pay day places can't garnish his wages - hard to say, but they have his bank account information. He has mentioned he had signed an agreement that allowed them to withdraw the amount due at the end of the month automatically from his account. I'm not clear what the law is in this regard here in Canada. I wouldn't share this with him as he would then then he doesn't have to pay it back. Perhaps this could serve as leverage to get him to find a job.

    In terms of what he spends it on?? He eats alot of fast food - he is addicted to food. My concern also is his friend is quite overweight - more so than my son. My son spends alot of time at J's place who lives with his dad. His dad apparently cooks meals for them, so not sure if he gives money to them to contribute. I have cooked lasagna's for them and sheppard's pies and chipped in for groceries from time to time.

    This morning, i found a text - he had wished me 'good nite mom' . I went to work and then around 10:30am there was another text:

    "Go burn in a ditch you c***, don't you ever come to my f***ing place again".

    2:15pm - 'Mom i tried going to the clinic but there is a 2 hour wait. Can you loan me some of your medications? (we take the same antidepressant)...to which i replied - no, i am low myself and need to get it refilled. No reply. I then added, you need to get your medications - not good to be off them this long.

    Haven't heard since from him. No mention about the money he owes....i'm going to sit back and see what he does......as you have said, i have to distance myself and let him take the lead. If he wants me to go with him to Dr. appts...fine, but no more money to him. If i buy groceries, i won't give him the money for it.

    This is about all i know right now. We were supposed to go to the family doctor next week as his psychiatrist has left for another province and he felt my son was stable on his medications and didn't need to continue with the pscych and any refills he could get from the family doctor.

    I'm just trying to chill - concerned he may get worse off his medications....hopefully have a relaxing evening....at least i'll try. Thanks again for your kind words of support....
     
  11. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    I'm actually rather surprised that Canada allows "check to cash" loans at all. Not that I'm an expert on Canadian law.

    It just seems that Canada is overall a much more sensible and humane country than the US.

    I do want to reiterate that I don't know what current laws regarding the various shadowy types of loans available in the US are. My one experience was checking out check to cash loans in '94 out of sheer "that can't be legal, can it?!?" curiousity. I know about car title loans as they were back then as we did the same thing. Were offered 3.5K on a 93 Ford Windstar van worth about 14K, at an exhorbitant interest rate, and yes, you lose your car if you don't repay. Unreal! Car title loan places still exist, at least in poor neighborhoods in Milwaukee county, so they're still legal, but I don't know what current laws are.
     
  12. wisernow

    wisernow wisernow

    His texts to you were completely inappropriate. Reading through your thread it sounds to me like some drugs may well be involved. If you permit him to treat you this way, and you continue to contribute to his financial issues you are enabling him and he will never stop. Been there, done that. He will suck the life and money from you. Please see a therapist, to get help setting boundaries for you! I know this hurts, but you cant be his doormat or give in to his threats. Please take your power back. Hugs!!!!!
     
  13. Jabberwockey

    Jabberwockey Well-Known Member

    Others have given good advice so I wont rehash that, but did want to comment on this. You've mentioned that you are acting as his caseworker, taking him to Dr appointments, buying him groceries. You cant distance yourself from his actions while acting as his caseworker. The only way he will ever get a caseworker is because he needs one. Try to step back completely for a bit and force him to handle his life. I know it wont be easy but it is necessary.
     
  14. Triedntrue

    Triedntrue Active Member

    I go back to the money i doubt if he was behind 2 months they would have lent him more for one thing. for another if all his needs are being taken care of and you are buying groceries and he has been getting free meals from friends dad and you. So how could he need 2400 more dollars?. I don't know if you ever saw the show very old called leave it to beaver but there was a character on there called Eddie Haskel. He was very polite and helpful and parents loved him. But as soon as he was away from the parents he changed into a manipulative little jerk. I discovered that a lot of my sons friends were like eddie haskel. Wonderful and understanding until you are not around. One sold him marijuana one robbed him blind. One was sneaking away from work to get drugs even though my son was paying him. Where did my son go for help ME. Also why is he not working? How is he paying his bills. To me it is very suspicious.
     
  15. GStorm

    GStorm Becoming Independent

    Wow, this is a lot going on with your son. I read most of the posts & it
    is overwhelming, just reading them, so I cannot imagine (or I can on some level) ,what you have been going through, as I have over-helped my son as well. (You can look back on my posts). For me, I am gradually detaching and putting the responsibility of things back in RJ's lap. It is hard because I love him. Like one (or more people) have noted, we respond in that FOG, Fear, Obligation, & Guilt. My family has had to intervene on me & even God spoke to me during the last crisis with RJ &
    just said, "STOP!" I realized that I have had knee jerk reactions to what happens to him and generally want to fix it, nag him, &/or throw money at the issue.

    As noted, there is support out there for your son; however, he will probably not take advantage of that as long as you keep "helping him."And believe me, I am not judging you at all, as I have been down this road & am still in it, falling in the hole sometime, but at least walking around it.

    Poem by Portia Nelson
    Autobiography in Five Chapters
    “There’s A Hole In My Sidewalk:
    Where are you?


    Chapter I
    I walk down the street.
    There is a deep hole in the sidewalk
    I fall in.
    I am lost … I am helpless.
    It isn’t my fault.
    It takes forever to find a way out.

    Chapter II
    I walk down the same street.
    There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
    I pretend I don’t see it.
    I fall in again.
    I can’t believe I am in the same place.
    But, it isn’t my fault.
    It still takes a long time to get out.

    Chapter III
    I walk down the same street.
    There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
    I see it is there.
    I still fall in … it’s a habit … but,
    my eyes are open.
    I know where I am.
    It is my fault.
    I get out immediately.

    Chapter IV

    I walk down the same street.
    There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
    I walk around it.

    Chapter V
    I walk down another street.

    YOU, TAKE CARE OF YOU!!!! & Believe me, this is easier said than done! I have never realized how much I have neglected myself until I started focusing on myself as a 61y/o woman, (dentist, counseling, taking my medications, exercising, following up with appointments, planning my meals, losing weight, finding out what I want to do & DOING IT!!!)
    You will find out that "It's a Wonderful Life!" You deserve to take care of yourself. Stay in touch. Keep coming back to this website. It has been a God send for me & go to some Al-Anon , NAMI meetings, &/or counseling sessions for yourself. Stay in touch.

    Sending you (((HUGS)))
     
  16. GStorm

    GStorm Becoming Independent

    Thanks to y'all for this vote & for all of your on-going support.
     
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  17. DadInProgress

    DadInProgress Member

    Sounds like he is isolating.

    Depression + ADHD medications (amphetamines) + solitary isolation + no purpose = recipe for disaster

    As the other posters stated, it sounds like he could be working and a purpose is great for both depression and ADHD.