34yo Difficult Child back in area, same ol, same ol

SeekingStrength

Well-Known Member
It is getting better. This forum gives us so many coping skills, but cannot really help much as far as the ache of losing a relationship with a child. Well, we can UNTIL we come face-to-face with our offspring. (At least, that is my experience).

and, then...
a couple days later, I received a text from Difficult Child.

He said he left McDonald's suddenly because he felt like crying and he did not mean to be an a**. His dad was not sent that text.

Manipulation, methinks.... or at least an attempt at it. Difficult Child certainly did not look like he was anywhere near tears.

And, so, i am feeling centered (teetering, but centered) again.

SS
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
He said he left McDonald's suddenly because he felt like crying and he did not mean to be an a**. His dad was not sent that text.
Manipulation, methinks.... or at least an attempt at it. Difficult Child certainly did not look like he was anywhere near tears.
And, so, i am feeling centered (teetering, but centered) again.
SS, this is all so difficult. I am sorry for the pain, strain and over all just UGH, of it. I have not had a face to face for awhile, texts, or phone calls, slowly making my way to centered, dang holidays were hard. I am happy that you are feeling better. One day at a time. Glad you are thinking with your head, over heart, and seeing the text for what it could be. Action speaks way louder than words, that is for sure....hang tough dear, you are not alone. {{{HUGS}}} leafy :staystrong:
 

Childofmine

one day at a time
Seeking, good morning, just reading along here and catching up.

Like RE said, I am sure it was jarring to see him unexpectedly. That anxiety in your stomach and chest. Reading your post took me back to that. I would be both glad and stressed out at the same time, not knowing what might happen. It is awful to feel that way about your own child.

He said he left McDonald's suddenly because he felt like crying and he did not mean to be an a**. His dad was not sent that text.

Manipulation, methinks.... or at least an attempt at it. Difficult Child certainly did not look like he was anywhere near tears.

And, so, i am feeling centered (teetering, but centered) again.

And then, afterward, the whammy. It can't be enough to just see them, feel the feelings and be glad that you laid eyes on them, whatever the situation.

Then there has to be a whammy. This "after part" is what I think hardens us again and again, and you know, we have to have that kind of armor to endure this stress and pain.

I'm thinking of you today, and hoping you are seeing some light for yourself in 2016. Hoping and praying that is the case. Warm hugs this morning.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
and, then...
a couple days later, I received a text from Difficult Child.

He said he left McDonald's suddenly because he felt like crying and he did not mean to be an a**. His dad was not sent that text.

I think Son was sincere to the degree that he is able.

Seventeen layers down, back before the addiction, he does love you both. He doesn't mean to be an a** is another way of saying he doesn't mean to be who he has somehow become.

But he is who he has become. And he knows it and believe it or not this is a small display of conscience and that is progress.

This is only for you to observe. Your child is still trapped in something he cannot break free of with your help. He needs to do this alone. Maybe the grandparents will be able to keep him afloat until he can take the next steps. If you or D H could have helped him, these things would never have come to be. That is the circle of addiction. Every good intention the kids have is powerless before the power of the addiction. And they are turned into liars in their own eyes, and condemn themselves for it.

And they don't know what to do about any of it anymore than we do.

But we have one another, and this site. And so, we can find the courage to ~ I don't know. To do what we are doing.

Because nothing else worked, and those are our children, and we love them.

***

It helps me sometimes, when I know there is nothing I can do without making the situation worse, to repeat: "There is nothing I need to do."

***

This is one of the things that changes in our families, when there is addiction. Or a mental or emotional illness. We harden our hearts to survive it. We become cynical to survive it. Time passes, and we forget how it hurt to lose the kids, how it hurt to lose our images of ourselves as the parents we believed ourselves to have been. We forget how it hurt to begin questioning and then, condemning ourselves.

We forget how it hurt, when we became desperate enough to find this site, or to entertain detachment parenting as even a remote possibility.

And then, suddenly one day, we see the faces we love. And the horror of what's happened to all of us feels unreal ~ feels like it couldn't possibly be true.

I believe with all my heart that once they are sober or straight for a period of time the kids feel the same way.

Disoriented.

They don't know what to do, either.

They are scared, too. And deeply ashamed.

But all those good things you taught your son about meeting challenge are still there inside him. Believe that, because it is true. He has everything he needs to bring himself through this.

Somewhere in there is our child as he or she was before the addiction; before the illness.

Before all of us lost what was lost.

He can and will come through this, and so will you and D H.

***

I think it is true that detachment parenting gives the kids the best chance. I know I am not supposed to see detachment that way but that is how I do see it. If we give to them what they need, we turn them into beggars expecting a payoff if only the story is bad enough, and if they are blameless enough in our eyes.

The eyes that matter are their own eyes.

That is why we have to practice detachment parenting. The kids need to learn to respect themselves again, and they need to learn they are strong enough. We are the ones who can break the nasty viciousness of enabling, which turns the kids into beggars and us into people who see their own children in ugly ways and so, we are the ones who have to do it.

Thinking this way helped me survive what I needed to do to give the kids a chance at saving themselves. I had already done everything I knew to help them and it hadn't worked.

So, I had to do something else.

I am sorry this is happening. It is impossible to remain survivably detached when the child is near. When the grandparents are involved. It might be helpful to read through the McCoy material linked to the bottom of my posts, Seeking. She gives us words to speak and parenting self-concepts to hold us up.

Did you text him back?

Cedar

The other thing I would tell you is not to write the end of the story. Not for good, and not for bad. Try to stay present moment and steady state.
That way, you will know the right thing. You will not respond to any of this from some anxious, dark place that is desperate.

Take care of yourself and your D H. Love your child, but be smart. His situation is what it is. It will be hard for him, and for you.

We are right here.

***

Okay, so one more thing. It helped D H and I to say "No" once we decided what we would need to see before we would help. Knowing there was a place that we would help was a landmark for us ~ a way to make sense of where we were and what we were doing and why we were doing it. I told my kids what I was doing, and why. I don't want them to feel judged or condemned. I don't want them ever to believe we don't love and care about what happens to them. I think they did not feel as judged, or as abandoned, when they understood where we were coming from.

And we did not judge ourselves as harshly.

And that is important, too.
 

TheWalrus

I Am The Walrus
The other thing I would tell you is not to write the end of the story. Not for good, and not for bad. Try to stay present moment and steady state.

I love this. None of us should write the ending...because the story can always change, and life is full of plot twists and surprises. And sometimes even the saddest beginnings have happily-ever-afters.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
He said he left McDonald's suddenly because he felt like crying and he did not mean to be an a**. His dad was not sent that text.
This is what I think Seeking Strength.

By accident I came across an email I had written to my son in Summer 2014. Reading it was like getting off an airplane in some exotic island, all warmth and breeze and beauty everywhere.

The shock of where I had been with my son and am now--stunned me--how I had changed.. I do not call my son. I do not wish to see him. When he calls I ask for courtesy and respect, no more.

Our guard we have come to for a reason. This is not to make us bad or them. Our relationships have not been Tahiti honeymoons. They have been hard fought and will be hard won.

I take your son at his word. When he saw you, feeling welled up in him. He fled. But he did not lash out. This is good. It is a start.

COPA
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I told my kids what I was doing, and why. I don't want them to feel judged or condemned. I don't want them ever to believe we don't love and care about what happens to them. I think they did not feel as judged, or as abandoned, when they understood where we were coming from.
Cedar, when you look at it this way, "no" as the default is the easy part, I think. How did you explain to them what you would need to say "yes" and how do you determine it yourselves?

COPA
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
The other thing I would tell you is not to write the end of the story. Not for good, and not for bad. Try to stay present
You will not respond to any of this from some anxious, dark place that is desperate.
I would have never believed that such a place existed in me, a place beyond fear and anger.

In myself I found that it has to do only with locus of control. Not seeking anything particularly from him that I do not look for in any other person. Civility.

And going along living my life, where he plays only not even a supporting role, and certainly is no longer the star.

It helps me to see it this way. By naming a thing, I begin to achieve perspective. And some sense of control. He is no longer some essential, enveloping and unnamed part of me--namely everything. And with this shift, the anger recedes.

COPA
 

Kalahou

Well-Known Member
Cedar, Maika`i no mahalo. Wow. Aloha nui.
Thank you for your last post above. I printed it out to keep re-reading over and over and over. It is so eye opening for me.
But he is who he has become. And he knows it and believe it or not this is a small display of conscience and that is progress.
This is only for you to observe. Your child is still trapped in something he cannot break free of with your help. He needs to do this alone.
My own son also will periodically send a text or even try (in his difficult uncommunicative way on the phone or in person even) to express some remorse, as he is able, about what he has become. I think he has a great disappointment in himself, and I believe a lot of his angst against me is really felt against himself, but taken out on me or against his ex-wife in his venting complaints to me about her…. or about his employers etc.
Disoriented.

They don't know what to do, either.

They are scared, too. And deeply ashamed.

But all those good things you taught your son about meeting challenge are still there inside him. Believe that, because it is true. He has everything he needs to bring himself through this.

Somewhere in there is our child as he or she was before the addiction; before the illness.

Before all of us lost what was lost.

He can and will come through this, and so will you and D H.
I have been too confused and fearful to believe this. Thank you for this reminder and encouragement.
It helps me sometimes, when I know there is nothing I can do without making the situation worse, to repeat: "There is nothing I need to do."
This is so simple and so easy and so peaceful and so powerful. I can do this, starting this very moment. Not to be lazy and giving up, but when I know there is nothing I can do to make anything better, it will be my new 5 second prayer of joy and comfort ... Ke Akua, I'm thankful that there is nothing I need to do. Amene.
The other thing I would tell you is not to write the end of the story. Not for good, and not for bad.
I give thanks for your insightful wisdom I really needed to hear today. I read your post and it was like grabbing onto a life ring to hold close and breathe and look forward now to ~ the new day - Ka la hou.
 
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Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Cedar, when you look at it this way, "no" as the default is the easy part, I think. How did you explain to them what you would need to say "yes" and how do you determine it yourselves?

We did not explain to them the "yes". That was for us to know. We used the words to the kids that we all use here ~ "I'm sorry that happened; oh, no ~ what are you going to do. I love you. You can do this. No money. No, you cannot move home. You don't need me. I am practicing something called detachment parenting. The more I help you the more I am making you weak and dependent and I won't do it. Stop using drugs. That is the problem. You are better than this. You were raised better than to do what you are doing. Here is Social Services number. Here is 211 number for referral. I love you. I worry for your sake. Stop doing this. No money. No you cannot move home."

That kind of thing. And at first, I needed to write it down. I would read it instead of saying "Where do I send the money." (Which was my usual go to response.) It tore me apart to do it. But something had to change. Being the one addicted, my child could not change.

So, thanks to everyone here who helped me know what to do and what to say and how to think about myself, I changed.

It's really hard, but we can do it.

They can't. So, we have to.

***

To ourselves, we said: "If the kids are working and need money for a down payment on a house, or if they need an assist finishing a degree, then we would help. If they asked for rent money, we gave it once with a warning and said no after that. We would help one time, always with a warning that we would not help the next time. No stories were allowed about how unusual the circumstances were because we did not want to turn our children into liars. We said: You are not a beggar.

Next time, we will not help.

Though it was more detailed than that, that was pretty much it.

We did not want to turn our own children into beggars.

And when we gave them what they wanted if only the story was bad enough, that was exactly what we were doing.

So, we stopped.

***

The reason it is hard to say no is that we don't want our children to suffer, and we can't believe what is happening to them is happening ~ but it is also that we don't want to be someone who turned away from someone ~ anyone ~ who needed help.

That part is what keeps us awake at night.

Who are we? How is it possible to send our children away when they are so troubled? And the answer to that one, as every parent here has had to learn, is that if we do not send them away, the trouble gets worse, for us and for them, too.

There are parents in their eighties caring for addicted "children" in their sixties.

There are parents in their eighties whose sixty year old children are addicted but who don't see their children.

And both sets of parents are very sad. It is the addiction that is the problem. Not the parent, and not the addicted child. The difference between those two sets of parents is that the parents caring for their addict children are very poor, and may even have been physically and emotionally and financially abused.

There are no pretty choices, here.

Addiction is an ugly, destructive thing.

One of the moms here has worked very hard with her own mental health issues. She taught us that even with those kinds issues, each person has to take responsibility for him or herself.

So, whatever their situations, our kids have no excuses, then. If they want us to take care of them, then they have to do what we say. If they don't do what we say, then they don't get any money.

We are the ones who need to know that, not the kids.

Whether we say yes or no, we are setting up the rules of engagement from our side. We need to understand this. We are setting up the rules of engagement from our side. Respect from our children? Have we let that lapse?

Whose responsibility is that.

Ours.

***

We are going to have to stand up at some point. The sooner we begin saying what is true ~ that the kids were raised better than to do what they are doing, that we expect more of them, that we will not fund their drug use. (Which they will deny, so we tell ourselves we were not born yesterday and tell the kids to stop making fools of us and say: NO MONEY. NO YOU CANNOT MOVE HOME.)

One of our moms here names addiction a terminal disease.

I agree with her.

Terminal.

There is nothing easy about any of this. We are their parents. We have the power of defining our relationships to our children. Drug use changes our children. That means we need to stand up.

There isn't too much more to it than that.

Addiction is an ugly, terminal disease. Nothing pretty about any of it ~ not what it does to our kids, and not what knowing they are suffering does to us.

I feel badly for all of us.

For the younger moms, especially.

But it is what it is.

Radical acceptance.

Cedar
 

Albatross

Well-Known Member
He said he left McDonald's suddenly because he felt like crying and he did not mean to be an a**. His dad was not sent that text.
I'm so sorry, SS, for the jolt and the inner mayhem that comes from just running into him when you weren't expecting it. It is like we have built a fortress and we feel a sense of certainty and predictability, and then something like this happens and we see those walls are made of Swiss cheese.

My take on his comment is that it was jolting to him too, maybe not to the extent it was for you but still an upset to his equilibrium, and that is what he was expressing to you. That he felt SOMETHING, and he wanted you to know that.

Who knows if he FELT like he was going to cry or he was astute enough to pick up that he OUGHT to feel like he was going to cry; that question can drive us crazy.

But I sure do wish we could just run into our kids and not have it be like this. I'm glad you found your footing again. I'm glad we have this place.
 
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