A cry for help

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Atourwitsend, Apr 30, 2012.

  1. Atourwitsend

    Atourwitsend New Member

    I am brand new to this forum.
    I have two beautiful boys aged five and one and for the past three years my family has been held hostage by my five year old. I love him with all my heart but he is out of control. He is verbally abusive to both me and my husband, my baby and everyone around him. He will attack my one year old with fists, weapons, and feet. He also attacks his teachers and anyone who comes into contact with him. For the past three years we have desperately sought help to no avail. Whenever, we would take him in to be evaluated you would swear an angel came down to earth. He is highly intelligent, manipulative, aggressive, and has no remorse. We have tried everything! Time outs he throws the chair at you! When taking away toys he will pick up all his toys and throw them into the trash and tell you that it doesn't matter. When we try talking to him on his level he will strike your face and spit at you. He tells us he wants to kill us and God. He refuses to listen or do anything we say and when we try to be assertive he will become combatant.
    We are at desperation's end because he recently told people that my husband had kicked him and we had the police investigate. Then CPS became involved when the police noticed bruising on my one year old and my son confessed to beating his brother. They took my five year old from our home because CPS witnessed him beating his brother and myself. My heart and my family has been broken. We had an informal meeting with a psychologist because we now have to go through councilling before they will allow him to be around his brother or us because of the threat of violence he poses to us. During our meeting the psychologist said that he is 'fairly certain' my son is ADHD/ODD. Previously, my son had been labeled with Intermittent Explosive Disorder. The police and CPS have both stated that they do not believe we were abusing my son but in everyone else's eyes we are seen as abusive parents even though we have been proven not to be. I have desperately tried to get help but no one would help us because my son would not show his true colors around others until recently. I can't even convey how I feel right now. I'm hurting and my family is hurting. I need to know that there are others out there who have gone through this and that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
  2. I am so sorry you are in so much pain. I know you will find a lot of support here from the many members. They truly are wonderful.

    I am pretty new here myself and don't have much experience with your situation but I know there are many people who will chime in and give you some very good information and advice.

    Big hugs to you and your family.
  3. keista

    keista New Member

    Welcome! I'm so sorry you have such a difficult situation to contend with, but please let me point out the bright side. You are finally getting the help you and your family need. I realize that it feels very much like "be careful what you wish for", but consider yourselves blessed. I say this only because I've read too many posts on this board from parents BEGGING the system for help for their violent and aggressive child, and NO ONE wants to help. All they do is shift blame.

    Welcome again, you've found the right place for support.
  4. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    When difficult child 1 was 5 he tried to kill difficult child 2, repeatedly. I understand the shock and horror that someone you love so much would do something so awful. difficult child 1 would also throw chairs bigger than himself across the room if put in time out. We made a time out room. Put him in there and stood on the otherside of the door until he calmed down for 5 min. Sometimes he was in there for hours raging.

    Keista is right about the help. Getting help at such a young age means your son has hope for change. My sons therapist was wanting him to go to an out of home placement at 6 years old. I fought him on it until difficult child 1 was 10. I wish I had listened sooner. It was the best thing for my son.

    Having him out of your home doesn't mean you're not a good mom or that you're not involved in his treatment. The goal for my son has always been to have a happy family life. I assume that is the goal for yours as well. It is still possible for my son even though he had an out of home placement for a year.

    Why don't you give us more information about what testing, medications, diagnosis's, and history your son has. There is lots of experience here and we might be able to help. Is there any possibility of Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) or BiPolar (BP)?

    I'm so sorry you are hurting. I am glad that your 1 year old is safe though. I had difficult child 1 taken out of our home because I couldn't keep the other kids safe. While in the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) he learned a lot and now that he is back things aren't perfect but they are much better. Something I realized after he came back was that the younger kids don't remember him being violent. They aren't scared of him. Our of home placement is not always a bad thing.

    Welcome to the board.
  5. Atourwitsend

    Atourwitsend New Member

    Thank you! As for testing my son was first identified as 'troubled' in daycare and a auditor for DHHS came in and observed him. However, because his behavior was sporadic we were told that there were no problem. Then in Pre-school the same thing happened DHHS observed. However, this time they referred us for Special Education. We took him in for observation but once again were told that he was just 'active'. We then begged our Pediatrician to refer him for a psychological evaluation. Reluctantly, our Dr. did so and that is when we were told he had Intermittent Explosive Disorder (IED). However, because he was so young and not yet in school there were no treatments and our insurance would not cover counciling. We then had him evaluated for a special Behavior School when we were told that the school 'would not tolerate and did not have the proper structure' for him. So he was accepted into the Behavior School however, before he could start my husband's company transferred him! So, we went to our new school and explained the situation and they told us that they could have him see the guidance councilor if there became a problem. There was a problem. However, because he was only in pre-school he did not qualify for any further help. Our new Dr. referred us to behavioral counciling but then things came to a head before that could be set up.
  6. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Is this your bio-child, or adopted, or a step-child?
    What were his really early years like?
  7. Ktllc

    Ktllc New Member

    Just want to give you a very warm welcome. I have no experience with a situation like yours, so I'll not be of great advice. But hang in there. A lot of people on this forum know what you are talking about. They will help you figure things out.
  8. llamafarm

    llamafarm Member

    Welcome. I am sorry about your situation but I think keista has said it. You are finally getting some help. You have to keep your family safe. As terrible as this feels, if anything more tragic happened to anyone in your family you would feel worse.. plus angry at the world for absolutely no help. Remember you are getting help now.

    I have an 11 year old who was just taken to the hospital by the police (because I called and asked them to, I can't transport him because it is too dangerous.) He has been admitted for a psychiatric evaluation. His behavior is violent, physically aggressive and verbally aggressive. We have to keep the family safe. No one should be getting hurt by someone else living in this house. Though it is uncomfortable letting people know what is going on, the more you share the more ideas you get, the more help and assistance you will get.

    Be honest about what is going on at home. They need to know details as much as it hurts to have to have him away for a time. He needs the help and so do you and your family.

    I realize that this rambles somewhat, but you need to know there are many more people out there who can relate to a certain degree with what you are going through. It is very scary and seems you have been doing a great job with the limited assistance you have had to this point.

    We are thinking of you.
  9. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    In this state after a child is in the cps system lots of options open up that are closed to others. Explore those options as well as you try to get him tested. And get him tested! For everything under the sun! I looked up Intermittent Explosive Disorder (IED) and those kids show remorse afterwards and the explosions only last 10-20 min (according to the Mayo clinic.) And it is only diagnosis after all other diagnosis are ruled out. 5 is to young for everything else to be ruled out. Especially if they haven't had him for very long. If he were my son I'd take him to a developmental pediatrician or a neuropsychologist. Prepare a parent report. Here is the link to instructions on how to do one.


    Is he on any medications? Which ones? Is he with a foster family or a more structured placement? Are they offering you family therapy?

    You are in a very interesting situation. You will need to be very flexible on somethings and very insistent on others. If some yahoo in cps thinks you need to be wearing red every time you see him then you will be wearing red. If they think they need to be in your home they will be in your home. If they don't think he needs anymore testing or that your family doesn't need therapy fight them (politely of course.)

    If he is in foster care you need to be in contact with them as much as possible. The foster parents might have had some training but probably not enough to prepare them. They will probably not know how to handle your son. Both of you need to attend every appointment and hear what the doctors are saying on how to handle him. Have as much contact as possible with your son. When difficult child 1 was first admitted to the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) I got a very cold reception from the staff because most of the kids in there have been messed up by their parents. It took me going to every mtg, calling as often as was allowed, talking to the therapist, psychiatrist, and staff as equals (even if at the time they didn't think of me as an equal) before they came around. I also challenged them to do things they weren't used to, like family therapy, because I felt it was in the best interest of my son and essential for my family getting back together.

    Get as much in writing as you can as to what goals they have before your son can come home. What kind of therapy, how long without aggression, ect...? Think of it as a road map or guideline to getting your son home - not set in stone. It is also proof to others that interact with your son or get added to your case that you and cps are a team. This is not a case where the parents are at fault. I've know people who went to cps for help and got burned because there are people there that blame the parents.

    Good luck the more information we have the better we can help. I hope what I have written helps and isn't taken as being bossy - that is not my intent.
  10. Atourwitsend

    Atourwitsend New Member

    Thank you everyone for the advice. Mostly everyone is asking for more information so... I am a stay at home mom 30 yrs old. I've been married to my middle school sweetheart for 8 years and together for over 17. My oldest is 5 and my youngest is one. Both of my pregnancies were very high risk with gestational diabetes, pre-eclamsia, toxemia, and placental abruptsion. My oldest was born after 72 hours of labor by emergency c-section and was admitted into the ICU with pneumonia from the stress of the birth. He was 8.6lbs and full term. My second was born by c-section at 8.4lbs. During the c-section for my second the doctors discovered that during my first pregnancy there had been complications that had not been recorded. I ended up having to have massive reconstructive surgery because all of my internal organs had fused together with scar tissue and they had to do a hysterectomy. difficult child is our 5 year old son who is not on any medications. He is HIGHLY intelligent (tested into 1st grade at 3) and is extremely hyperactive. He can turn on and off his hyperactivity when he wants to but mostly he is bouncing off the walls all the time. He is very into guns (he builds them out of legos and other materials) and weapons. His play is centered around 'fighting'. He flies off the handle at the word 'no' and is abusive to anyone who doesn't do exactly what he wants when he wants it. As far as cps goes we have been cooperating fully to try to get him help. They have us doing family counciling right now to work on the way we interact with him. I'm frustrated because the foster mother is not cooperating with us and neither is our case worker. I put in calls to both everyday to try to talk with my son or check on him and they do not answer the phone nor do they call me back. Last night we had a meeting with our psychologist who will be treating my son and he focused more on my husband and I than my son. His foster mother keeps insisting that everything is 'fine' at her home but then in the next breath says that my son said he would stab her for no reason. Then she says he is kicking, punching, and biting(biting is new for him). It is really frustrating because obviously everything is NOT 'fine'. Also she says that she can get him to redirect and comply. Well, the setting in her home is that there are no younger children and he has 100% attention at all times. I explained that that was not a realistic expectation of our family! How can I possibly do that and not ignore my one year old? The worst part is that my family is moving again (my husband is being relocated) but we are moving closer to my family and to more support. I have even contacted behavioral services in our new town and they have jumped on both enrolling my child in the behavioral school and finding councilors and setting up a support system for him when we arrive. When I explained this to the Doctor and said I wanted my son re-evaluated and given an IEP he said that 'that is something we will have to look at in the future'. Why should this wait? Shouldn't we evaluate what is wrong and try to fix that while we are working as a family?
  11. buddy

    buddy New Member

    OH good grief, how soon are you moving? The doctor is the psychiatric? Has he heard of early intervention, a concept well known and researched since before the 1970's? Sadly, some people in the mental health system just do not see past the things they are used to dealing with. They dont understand kids who are truly differently wired and they can't see this is not a family systems problem, but rather a child with special needs where the child need unique therapies and the parents need unique supports and methods to help deal with it.

    Just go ahead and plan for a complete neuropsychologist evaluation, get nothing less than a complete one... new Speech Language Pathologist (SLP), new Occupational Therapist (OT) and full neuropsychologist since you are in a situation where CPS is involved you want all the data you can have for years to come. If your son is so gifted, and has these issues I really hope you are going to have a full autism evaluation done as well as looking at everything it could be. It can be many things but given his need to have things go just his way and how he can look so adhd, I'd wonder about the many factors that make up that profile....sensory issues, being gifted in certain areas but lacking in social areas, etc.

    The foster mom saying things are "fine" sounds like an automatic response designed to make her look good or not to worry people etc. He probably has the new behavior (biting) because he is not with his family! Duh, it makes me crazy they dont think of their security and emotional well being....I mean he didn't even go into foster care due to abuse TO him. They should be ultra careful to make sure he can talk to mommy and daddy every day. They are so locked into the system that treats only one kind of situation. I am really sorry for him and for you.

    Sounds great that the new area you are moving to has better resources and is maybe a little more clued into kids like your difficult child. If he needs placement out of the home, (if you decide that for a while) then a typical foster home will NOT DO. He will need a therapeutic placement....either therapeutic foster care or a residential treatment kind of setting. But he is so young, it would be ideal if you could get intensive in home support with PCA's or Independent Living Skills workers (people who run behavioral goals) etc. Ignore the do...waiting is not an option. You are still his parents and have the right (heck the job/responsibility) to advocate for all he needs so keep on your path! This site has always said to put on your armor and get into warrior mode. It is the way we have to live our lives! Believe me...like a good frying pan, the armor with the most dents and use are the toughest and protect us the best. Sounds like yours will be getting lots of use but there really is hope if you can get these new evaluations done and get a proper diagnosis. Hopefully, if needed, you will find medications that can help.

    I worked in a child development center where one child with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) (also gifted and wow, a great kid but sooo aggressive) actually bit part of his baby siblings ear off. He was started on Risperdal and it worked like a miracle for him. He was able to be at home and they could continue to work on his goals in daily treatment and early childhood intervention too. When my son was diagnosed I enrolled him there too....so medical insurance paid for daily intensive autism treatment and then he went to early childhood special education (and the next year Special Education Kindergarten) in addition. We also did out of home private Occupational Therapist (OT), Speech and social skills groups. No matter the diagnosis, finding support like that really does help so much.... you meet people who understand and can give you support. (for us it was Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) but when you find out what is going on you will tailor it to his needs of course, just sharing the example).

    Hope they dont goof you up too much.... let us know how things are going!
  12. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    Is there any way to go over case manager and foster mom's heads? They are acting like you are the problem and you aren't. If you can't get anyone to listen to you you will need a lawyer. If you get one make sure they have a won a case against cps before. If you get to move him out of their jurisdiction maybe this is mute point.

    I was wondering if you could get foster mom to daily write down the behaviors that your son does and maybe e-mail them to the therapist and you? This would take the "everything is fine" out of the equation. It would also provide a good record for all those idiots out there that don't believe parents. It is possible that your son is honeymooning with foster mom and that is why she can redirect him.

    Yes, your son needs testing and not just from a psychologist. It sounds like your son can't handle transitions from what he thinks to what someone else thinks (I know, big understatement.) Also sounds like there could've been trauma at birth that started all this. I know that our pediatrician gave my kids MRIs, checked their thyroid, and other tests just to make sure there wasn't a medical component that we were missing. I know seizures can mimic some mental illnesses too.

    difficult child 1 also demanded 100% of my attention and if he didn't get it he would start attacking the other kids. I had to learn to always have part of my attention on difficult child 1. The only time I get to relax is when difficult child 1 is in his room. We have an alarm on his bedroom door so I'd could know if he got out. Its not fair to the other kids, but I don't know how to change that. We would also have to have different babysitters. difficult child 1 was so good for everyone else that the babysitters didn't believed me so they wouldn't watch him well enough.

    How often do you guys move? If cps won't give your son back to you directly maybe someone in your family can take him while you get all the testing done and get him stable enough to come back home. Or is the behavioral school residential? Is behavioral services in your new town the same as cps here?

    Now is a great time to get him an IEP. You can have it ready for him to start the next school year. My kids IEPs are this month. You don't have to have the tdocs permission to start getting an IEP. That is with the school.
  13. Atourwitsend

    Atourwitsend New Member

    Thanks for the advice I will try (again!) to get a hold of my case worker and foster mom and try to implement this. We really don't move that often we were in our last home for 7 years but then my husband's company gave him a promotion and moved us for training and are now moving us to what will be our permanent home. Does anyone know how I should request the testing? I'm not sure how to ask for it or who to ask. I know they had an informal with a psychiatrist and with the psychologist but I'm not sure how to go about getting the other diagnosis when he is out of my home. I'm hoping to have him back (placement is only short term temp) by the time we move in 3 months but I know that might also be a pipe dream. My brother and sister-in-law have offered to take him when we do move. (Brother is a high school teacher and sister-in-law teaches kindergarten and they do not have kids) My other inlaws have offered but because they live too far away that is not an option. (Which is unfortunate because my Brother in law is a behavioral therapist with his own practice!)
  14. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    Sounds like you have good family support. That is great and actually a bit unusual for this board. I'm jealous.

    Have you had any luck with the case worker? Or with case workers boss?

    I don't know if kids in the cps system can get an appointment faster, but normally a developmental pediatrician or neuropsychologist has months of waiting for an appointment. Maybe looking for one close to where your new home would be? And going through your insurance. Or have you contacted the cps where your new house will be? Make sure you get everything in writing if they promise you to pay for testing. You could use the excuse that you need it in writing to take to family members or foster mom.

    I know here that cps would place kids with willing, background checked family members before a foster home.

    Good luck