After 9 years of this I'm not sure I'm going to survive

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by dudley24, Oct 18, 2010.

  1. dudley24

    dudley24 Guest

    HI. I'm new here and desparate for some relief. I have a 12yr old daughter with ADD/ODD. Up until a couple of years ago I was a single parent fighting off grandparents and a school system who treated me like an abusive/neglective parent. Mind you my daughter certainly provided plenty of ammunition to both groups, with her "little stories" about what mommy wasn't doing for her (telling the school at one point that I refused to make her lunches and that I locked her in her room when she got home from school so that I wouldn't have to deal with her.)(I've had more than one visit from social services because of her "stories)

    Anyway I am now with a wonderful man, who by my accounts until now has been a saint with enormous levels of patience. Something I have to admit I was using to help elevate my own, But lately we have both come to a point where we are seriously considering those boot camps you see on tv just to get a break.

    A few months ago I got the bright idea to try and take her off her medications and go with a more natural approach to try and allieviate the symptoms of the ADD. My doctor approved the move, but I can't really tell if it's doing any good because of the ODD...something I didn't take into account when I got the light bulb moment. I'm worried about the effects of the Concerta at the major dosage of 36mgs (now going on 8 years of use) on her physicality. She's not even 80lbs yet because the drugs inhibit her appetite and her sleeping habits are horrific, also a side effect.

    In all honesty it's getting hard to feel the love, for her anymore and that frightens me. Our past problems (and there were many times I had to fight just to keep her because of her behavior and lies and not to mention the hurt I've had to swallow because of her ODD) and her current mix of preteen hormones and ADD/ODD are driving my stress levels through the roof and threatening the very solidity of our little family.

    I could really use some advice, a major load of new ideas on how to deal with her defiance , consequenses and some destressors for my hubby and I. I thank anyone who responds with a full heart.
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hi there and welcome to the board.
    I am going to ask your some questions that can help us help you. You haven't really shared enough for us to be helpful. I can tell you right off, I am against boot camps. These kids aren't bad...they are mentally ill or neurologically impaired or both. Who diagnosed her with ADHD/ODD? Has she ever had a complete neuropsychologist evaluation? Does she see a psychiatrist? in my opinion it sounds like more is going on than that...that is often a first, but usually not the last, diagnosis. Ok, here go the questions:

    1/ Are there any psychiatric problems on EITHER SIDE of her GENETIC background? Yes, that includes Dad, even if he never saw her because half of his genes are inside of her, making her part of who she is, and she may have inherited something. Any substance abuse on her genetic family tree?

    2/How was her early development as far as speech, cuddling, eye contact, sleep, temperament, motor skills? Did she have any strange quirks? Rages? Does s he repeat things she has heard or seen on television?

    3/In the NOW, how are her social skills with her same age peers? Does she know how to hold a give-and-take conversation or does she monologue or just answer "yes" "no" "I don't know." Does she have a lot of interests or a few obsessive interests? Any strange quirks? How does she do in school?

    You may want to do a signature like I did below.

    Until you write again, take care :)
  3. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Welcome to our little corner of the world. You have found a soft place to land where you will receive much support. MWM asked some good questions. I am sorry things are so rough right now. I totally get it about it being hard to feel the love. One book that has helped a lot of us here is The Explosive Child by Ross Greene.

    As far as destressors my husband and I exercise-a lot! Nothing beats it for helping with the stress. I also read, am in a book club, and both my husband and I find time for ourselves and each other as much as possible which is easier said than done but a definite must if we are going to be any good to our son.
  4. Jena

    Jena New Member


    welcome! you have found the right place and a good place. you sound like i did two days ago lol. I go thru it periodically. Why don't you write your signature at the bottom, your difficult child's age (gift from god ) we call our challenging kids, and brief info like we all have listed.

    What types of consequences do you use at home when she does something she shouldnt' either verbally or physically?

    are there clear cut rules and boundaries set up at home? Please dont' be insulted it's just i've learned from experience with-my 17 year old who was dxd ODD also about a year ago.

    do you guys take time together as a family yes even though right now you are soo fed up with-her, do you do anything "Fun" together amist the craziness?

    What types of testing have you done on her? Does she have accomodations at school? ever have a neuropysch testing done?

    Have you ever had blood work done? sounds silly i know. allergies, thyriods, rule out all medical? i learned this recently to rule out medical.

    does she attend any type of therapy? do you?

    I want to go to therapy but i can't find the time right now, yet as soon as i can make the time i'm running there. our kids can be hard and totally drain us you need someone you can vent to at times that isnt' family

  5. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    Welcome... you aren't alone anymore. :)

    I didn't have a chance to read the other responses so forgive me if I'm repeating. The first thing I would do is have your daughter re-evaluated... a lot has changed since she was three. Second, I would investigate a different medication if she is in fact suffering from ADHD. It sounds like the medication may be exacerbating her issues.
  6. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    You've gotten great advice above, and they've already asked any questions I'd have asked.

    Welcome to the board. As TM said, you aren't alone anymore........and that in itself can make all the difference in the world. It's probably why I'm still here after more than 10 yrs. lol ;)

    As a parent of grown difficult children ........ 3 of them......... I can say in all honesty, it can get much better. I know that at this moment it doesn't look like it ever will. I remember those years, they were rough. And the teen, for a while had me wondering whatever in the world possessed me to think I wanted children. lol

    Many people feel ODD is more a symptom than an actual diagnosis. And I tend to agree. A new evaluation would be a good idea (especially since she is not currently medicated) with a qualified neuropsychologist. The evaluation is very extensive and is excellent in pin pointing any issues other evaluations might have missed as it covers a vast area.

    So glad you found us.

  7. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    Adding my welcome...and my understanding. Been there myself.
  8. PatriotsGirl

    PatriotsGirl Guest

    Welcome, the only thing I can add is that I have found that antidepressants work far better with ODD than stimulants. My daughter's attitude and personality got progressively worse with stimulants. My son takes stimulants for his ADD, but he is not ODD so the medications work great for him. Just my experience. Sorry you had to find us :(
  9. dudley24

    dudley24 Guest

    Thank you to all of you. I have updated my info. I needed to vent while I had a minute but at 2 in the morning I found more time. I will answer each question as best as I can.

    My daughter was officially diagnosed with ADD at the age of 5. I say that because there were obvious signs when she was 3 but my doctor wouldn't say officially she was ADD until she was school age, and would not prescribe medication until then. There were no blood tests just a piece of paper with questions about her behavior, and my doctor's experience with her 2 ADHD kids.

    At first the Concerta that she was prescribed worked wonderfully, with exception of the loss of appetite and difficulty sleeping. Dot (as we have recently nick named her) presented behavior challenged not related to the ADD about a year after that. Foul temper, lying, being very defiant, separation anxiety etc, but everyone assumed it was related to being separated from her father, and my folks believed I was being too hard on her...thus a break in unified forces began, (families, gotta love em:()

    Around grade 2 I got seriously worried about her health because she still wasn't gaining any weight and her defiance was getting dangerous...leaving the home boundaries, taking things, running off to talk to strangers, throwing herself on the floor when she couldn't have her way. Also the fibs she was telling her teachers about me (Like I was drinking myself to sleep, that I hit her, or that she was not being fed at home, not being provided lunches etc.) Then there were the outright lies to my parents but she had already figured out we weren't seeing eye to eye and she could easily manipulate them. Social service visits began :(

    I wanted to have her see a pediatrician but my doctor wouldn't make the referal, always suggesting that because I myself are clinically depressed I was probably just over reacting. My parents also believed the same.

    I finally moved away from my parents two years ago and met my hubby. He was of the belief that a unified family lots of love and stability would help her. Two years later (God bless him) and many attempts to bond Dot is just as defiant as ever. A year ago we finally got her in to see a Pediatrician. He was supposed to be some BIG SHOT, many accelaids and honors etc etc (learned eventually all that stuff meant was that he thinks way too much of himself). Again there were questionaires to fill out but no real hands on diagnosis...BigShotMuckymuck, never even did an exam. He's the one who came up with the additional acrynm...Oppositional Defiance Disorder. Pardon my sarcasm when I say he said it like it was supposed to make it all better. By this time the Concerta was up to 36mg and no longer affective. Muckymuck suggested alternatives with even worse side effects and we tried Adderal but that just made her agressive and defiant with ADD. I told Muckymuck I wanted to try homeopathic approach and he said he didn't support that. He felt that perhaps hubby and I needed parenting classes instead.:mad: Hubby and I decided Muckymuck was just full of his own press and we stopped going to see him. I have asked our current GP to refer us to a new pediatrician but nothing has come of that yet...Pediatricians are really hard to get into around here and Muckymuck is the "agreed apon expert in ADD and ADHD":tongue: so my decision to seek another pediatrician's opinion didn't go down well.

    I found an internet thingy...3steps to conquering ADD, bought the book and considered the author's suggestions and from there I decided to take Dot off her medications and put her on a regiment of Protien shakes, liquid vitamins and a suppliment called Neu-be-calm'd which has had some promising results. Now, from what I can tell Dot's ADD symptoms are no worse then they were on the Concerta, but now she's gain 3 pounds in the last month and sleeps like a baby...:D. But, there's that defiance thing still smacking us in the face.

    As for how we dish out the consequences for inappropriate behavior, well mostly groundings. Through the years I have taken things away, tried spanking (found that personally distastful since I came from an abusing background and stopped) I've tried time out, time away, yelling, calm discussions, and the list goes on. I haven't been flippent about each approach either...I put time and patience into each approach and while they initially may have worked eventually Dot just decides she doesn't care and they become ineffective. Case in point, she had a brand new PS2 taken from her 8 months ago and doesn't care if she gets it back, even when I've used that as a negotiating tool. Dot's response, Keep it I don't want it.

    Admittedly before new hubby our time together consisted mostly of me watching her play her ps2 or going to Oma and Papa's house with the occasional outting or sitting watching tv and cuddling, but I had no car back then and was fighting my own battle with depression and stress, and a demanding fulltime job. Dot is a very high maintenance child who demands alot of attention, pyshically, emotionally and mentally. For the first 10 years of her life she got all of my attention regardless of
    my personal problems. Now, I realize that the new hubby and new brother may be part of her "issues" now but she's also gotten more attention from my hubby and she is incredibly good with her brother...a dream come true according to Dot, and as a family unit we now do more things together and as mother and daughter we spend more quality time together. But at the same time there have been some missed opportunity for fun times because of the "consequences" of inappropriate behavior.

    As for the neuro stuff well, I hadn't considered that in all honesty (her father had psychological issues...took anti psychotic drugs and is epileptic), and when we eventually get a pediatrician appointment I will ask about that. Though it's looking gloomy on that front because Dot's almost 13 and is considered too old for a pediatrician:tongue::(.\

    So that is where it's at. Whew that was a mouthful and it's now 3:30 am so I need to leave it at that. Thanks again all, if I've missed any questions I apologize, I'll try to catch them next time. night all. D
  10. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Welcome to the family.
    Interestingly, we looked at a list of pediatricians in our area, narrowed to who took insurance and picked the first one who could get the kids in. Their previous family doctor wanted to medicate them into oblivion. Also treated them like morons, and they're not. However, being in a different country can sure make a difference.

    Jett was on Concerta - within one year went from 9 mg to 54 - sleepwalking, urinating in his sleep (inappropriate places), severe brattiness. When he was weaned - the garbage stopped.

    Onyxx refuses medications. She was great on risperdone, but says it gives her hallucinations. We've tried a shopping list of them and finally gave up (for now). She's 15, but still going to the pediatrician - I quit going to one about age 10. So I can see both sides of that.

    Honestly, a re-evaluation definitely should be done. And by the way - been there done that with parenting classes. Sure, they give you tools - for dealing with a easy child, not a difficult child.

    Hugs, and again welcome!
  11. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    HI again. Just my last .02
    A pediatrician is not capable of diagnosing a childhood disorder. A neuropsychologist is not a neurologist. He is a Psychologist with special training in the brain. If your ex had psychiatric problems it is best to have her totally evaluated because anything that is treated early has a better prognosis. The fact that ex needed to take anti-psychotics means he has serious mental health issues. I personally wouldn't waste time even with a good pediatrician. They are best at diagnosing strep throat, not behavioral issues. Most just say ADHD and ODD because they really don't know how to diagnose anything else. It's not their field.
  12. Star*

    Star* call 911

    Hi ya Dudley -

    I think I shall call you Monkeyshines.....I have read and re-read all your postings and wanted to welcome you to the board. (WELCOME)

    A couple things jumped out at me through the lines. Or betweent the lines however you like. First of all and for what it's worth - are you on any kind of medication to help you cope? I see you like homeopathic remedies. I won't say that these work or don't. For me they weren't strong enough, Yoga and meditation was good, but with a difficult child pounding on the door screaming "I KNOW YOU ARE IN THERE IS THIS YOUR QUITE TIME, IS IT? IS IT? IS IT? IS IT??" makes it a little hard so I went the route of anti-depressants. (ahem) and thearpy. Family, child and individual. - will talk more later about that.

    As far as communication? I think it's key with these kids. Or anyone - work, home - grouchy neighbor. Get a book if you can at the library called "How to talk to kids so they'll listen and how to listen to kids so they will talk." it's about the best book I've ever read in my life on effective communication and parenting. The other books that I've read on ODD, ADHD explain the disorders - but for me didn't help me to talk to my son as much as this one did. they also have one for teens and it has a week - by - week work study in it.

    You're in good hands here - I hope you come back often - love the chimp lips picture - hence the monkeyshines - and you will shine through all this - good days are ahead. You'll learn to love them more than any parent in the world. Just maybe start with that book and puruse it - too much info at first is info. overload. More later from everyone I'm sure.

  13. dudley24

    dudley24 Guest

    hi everyone: thanks again for the warm welcomes. For the moment I just want to say that after reading some of the "horror" stories the last time I was here was a real prospectives wake-up. It's amazing how other people's children's worst gives you a fresh insight to what you thought was your own child's worst. I am heart broken for those parents who were courageous enough to tell their story but also truely grateful they took the time to share. Dot is not at all as bad as I have felt she's been. Yes we have defiance issues with her but I'm starting to wonder if some of that might just be her personality. As my hubby likes to point out I am pretty head strong myself and well as they say the apple often does not fall far from the tree.
  14. dudley24

    dudley24 Guest

    \OPPs...continued from the previous reply....hit return when I didn't mean to....Anywho. Star, yes I am medicated... Actually I am what I like to call responsibly medicated. I have had this condition for a good part of my adult life so I know what I must do to remain a functioning adult. I would LOOOOVVVVEEE to get off the medications but I know that isn't in anyone's best interest.

    As for Dot's father I agree with you I do think a full look at what could be going on in that pretty little head of hers should be done and I will be speaking to her doctor very soon....Everything has to be done by referal here in Ontario or you get no coverage. I am also going to take you up on your suggestion and get that book. I'm a huge self-helper so what's one more book.

    I appreciate everyone's suggestions and am not at all offended by any of it so I hope that elliviates anyone's misgivings to say anything.

    I do have a dilema to put forward though. An old roommate of ours (Dot and I when we lived by my parents) and her son have invited all of us (Dot, my hubby, new guy Boo and I) to their house for her son's birthday. Now the deal was that if Dot could make an effort to do her chores and do as she's asked that she would get to go (it's a long trip and will take the weekend) but....well I'm sure we all know that answer to that (suffice to say she got caught lying and sneaking around) so the consequense was no trip...but and this is the dilema...the old roommate really wants to see her as she hasnt seen either of us for two years and she was hoping to have Dot there as a big surprise for her son, since he thinks of Dot as his sister (he's an only child) I'm determined that we're going with or without I'm sick of having to cancel such trips because of her outburst or poor choices, and would leave Dot with her aunt while we're gone. But my heart goes out to my friend and her son. My hubby is concerned we will look weak if we give in and take her. So I'm asking, what everyone thinks and if anyone can come up with a replacement punishment as it were which would let us off the hook.:redface:

    Anyway I have to go, thanks again all....This place is definitely a soft place to land...THANK-YOU
  15. Josie

    Josie Active Member

    If you would like to have her there to surprise your friend's son, then I would just tell your daughter that you had changed your mind and she could come because it meant so much to the boy. For other consequences, maybe take away her phone, computer access, etc. so she would "have more time to get chores done".

    Even if you can't come up with something else, I think it is ok to let it go one time. Apparently, consequences haven't been working too well anyway? So it isn't like not getting the consequence will undermine all of that.

    My older daughter isn't really a difficult child any more, but back in the day, I sometimes changed my mind about a consequence if it was more of a punishment for me than her. It didn't make a difference for her, then or now.

    Now, I am very careful about making a consequence that doesn't bother me, but if it happened, I would change it, explain why, and tell her she couldn't count on that happening again.

    I think, as long as you don't make a habit of it, it will not make a big difference in the long run.
  16. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Hope is right - chances are good this punishment won't teach her much anyway. There are believers & non-believers of this theory on the site.

    But, having said that - you are the adult and you can change the punishment if you choose to. There is a lesson here for you & step-dad. Be prepared with punishments before the inevitable happens. I once took Halloween trick-or-treating away - it was PURE torture. And it made no impact on her behavior. So, I stuck to it - but for what? It is one of her most memorable childhood moments - a negative one of course!
  17. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Hi and Welcome!

    I am so sorry you need us, but very glad you have joined us!!

    Given the history of your ex's problems, I think you need to take your daughter into a neurologist to have a complete evaluation including a sleep deprived EEG. Many problems run in families and if her father had seizures she is much more likely to have a seizure disorder. MANY docs mistake seizure disorders for ADHD and other things. MANY medications lower the seizure threshold, making it more likely that seizures will happen. My daughter was given a diagnosis of inattentive adhd and several medications including concerta and strattera were suggested. We were given samples of strattera but I refused to give her ANY medications for adhd until we had the EEG done. Years ago all doctors required EEGs before they would give an adhd diagnosis, but that has changed and every doctor under the sun thinks they can diagnosis adhd. in my opinion it is wildly over diagnosis'd - many if not most of us on this site started out with an adhd diagnosis and found that it was incorrect or a symptom of something else later. I was very glad that I pushed for the EEG for my daughter because it showed that she has Absence Epilepsy and was NOT inattentive or adhd - her mind was turning off and missing about half of everything that was going on. When we finally found a medication that worked for her seh was SHOCKED because the days seemed far longer than she had ever known!! There are no real outward symptoms of her type of epilepsy. No thrashing about or typically thought of symptoms. They are almost unnoticeable unless you are really paying attention.

    I think a neuropsychologist evaluation would also help your daughter. You should also do some research on sensory processing disorder aka sensory integration disorder. It happens when the brain does not handle sensoryinput in the normal way. MANY children with other problems also have substantial sensory problems. They will seek or avoid various types of sensations. Textures, movements, scents, colors, patterns, etc are either sought out or avoided. You will need an Occupational Therapist to evaluate her. Here in the US we suggest finding a private Occupational Therapist (OT). Our schools have them on staff but they only look for how Occupational Therapist (OT) problems impact education, not the child's entire life. I am not sure how it works in Canada. You can learn more about sensory issues by reading "The Out of Sync Child" by Kranowitz. One of the positive things about sensory processing disorder (SPD)/Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) is that one of the best therapies for it involves NO medication and no invasive treatment. It is called brushing therapy and uses a special brush moved over the body in a specific way, followed by gentle joint compressions. It MUST be taught to you by an Occupational Therapist (OT) because if done wrong it can create HUGE problems. When used correctly, brushing has been proven to actually change the pathways that the brain uses to process sensory input. It literally "rewires" the brain with-o any invasive treatment!

    While sensory issues can make a HUGE impact, they are likely not the only issue. You do need a complete evaluation by a neuropsychologist, as others have recommended, in addition to the neurologist adn Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluations. It sounds like a lot, and it is, but it will give you a much better idea of how to best help your daughter.

    As far as handling day to day issues? I strongly suggest reading a few books. The Explosive Child is excellent, as others have suggested. What Your Explosive Child is Trying to Tell You, by Dr. Doug Riley, is also excellent. It will help you figure out what her meltdowns and tantrums are about. I also LOVE Parenting with Love and Logic, by Fay and Cline. It is the best book on parenting I have ever read, and one of the most empowering and useful books also. It advocates natural and logical consequences while strengthening the loving bond between parent and child. The authors used L&L to raise their own children. Now their children are working with them and using the methods to raise their own children. You can learn about L&L at They also have a lot of stuff for teachers - take a look at that also. I found some great ideas there. They have quite a few books now, so browse their online shop to see which would fit your situation the best.

    I took a seminar by Dr. Charles Fay a few years ago. It was truly incredible! The funniest moment was when a younger teacher (in his late 20's) all of a sudden said "THAT"S WHY SHE DID THAT!!" He was NOT a plant - he taught with my step mother in law his first year of teaching. dr. Fay was saying to not nag your child about a chore. If the child won't do it, hire someone to do it. Let the child know they will be expected to find the $$ to pay the worker. When the worker leaves if the child won't pay the parent does. Then the parent takes the child's possessions to the pawn shop. NOt making a big deal or giving ANY warning about that step. PArent then gives child the pawn ticket and lets them know if they want the item back they have 90 days to earn the $$ to buy it back. If the child takes something of the parents and pawns or sells it, or tries, the parent calls the cops. It is illegal for the child to take something of the parents. The parent has every legal right to take an item of the childs because the parent has guardianship of the child and the child's possessions. It was as this was being explained that the man said what he did.

    He really thought he just thought it. He had NO idea how loudly he said it. His mother was there and laughed and laughed and laughed. They both said that the day she called the cops, having not nagged, ranted, shouted or even discussed what her plan was, was a major turning point in his life. It was when he started to turn things around from the really bad path he was on as a teen. While I love the story I thought the guy was a plant in the audience. It was later that my mother in law was telling me this story that I learned that she knew the mother and had taught with the son.

    I hope some of this helps. Welcome again, it is nice to get to know you!
  18. dudley24

    dudley24 Guest

    Hey Midwest: I wanted to get back to you specifically since your questions were so specific so here's what I got for you.

    1/ Are there any psychiatric problems on EITHER SIDE of her GENETIC background? Yes, that includes Dad, even if he never saw her because half of his genes are inside of her, making her part of who she is, and she may have inherited something. Any substance abuse on her genetic family tree?

    yes her father took antpsychotic drugs plus drugs for two types of epilepsy (Jacksonian and Grandmall). His sister believed he was schizophrenic but I would have agreed with a socialpathic rx myself. He was irish so he drank like a fish, which brought on his seizures... I've been on antidepressents for years and there was fetal alcohol syndrome in my family and am showing signs of bipolar. \My mother was a rampant drinker through all her pregnancies.

    2/How was her early development as far as speech, cuddling, eye contact, sleep, temperament, motor skills? Did she have any strange quirks? Rages? Does s he repeat things she has heard or seen on television?

    Dot was slow to walk, and talk and her motor skills lagged. Her eye contact was good, she slept well and had a happy temperment. As soon as she got teeth she ate everything she could get her hands on. Wood, coal, candle wax, crayons, some she continued to eat for years after...couldn't keep candles in the house for almost 6 years. Dot still does that to this day but has switched to pencils, erasers, tree leaves, grass. As an infant Dot was very quick tempered. And, once she started talking she was a mimic. She also had this habit of asking "what if questions" and 95 percent of the time they were very morbid questions. I actually looked into a Ashburgers diagnosis but the doctor strongly felt she was add.

    3/In the NOW, how are her social skills with her same age peers? Does she know how to hold a give-and-take conversation or does she monologue or just answer "yes" "no" "I don't know." Does she have a lot of interests or a few obsessive interests? Any strange quirks? How does she do in school?

    Dot's social skills arent very good. She gets picked on alot, but most of the time her odd behaviors and "stories" gets her picked on. No, Dot has major problems with give and take conversations, yes she monologues alot and will not answer more than yes or no or I don't know unless seriously prodded when confronted with something. Dot has a few obsessive interests. I'm not sure I can think of any strange quirks...though for years she would draw on herself, but she hasnt done that in a while. Though, I have noticed that after Dot has a bath the bathroom mirrors are always soapy, like she's purposely done it...especially the full length mirror. Though it could be nothing. As far as school goes my hubby and I wanted her school to fail her last year but they wouldn't. She went on to grade 7 with a D average.

    Well I hope that answers your questions...I'm thinking you were thinking something specific so let me know.
  19. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Hmmmm. From your last posts............I'd be leaning more toward autistic spectrum (which aspergers is part of ) than ADD, as autism is often mistaken for ADD. Which makes it even more critical that you push to have the neurospsych evaluation done asap.

    This is going to come out sounding weird, but it's late and I really should be in bed, so bear with me. lol Parenting a child on the autistic spectrum is NOT the same as parenting a "normal" child simply because they don't respond normally to stimuli or typical discipline as "normal" kids do. My son Travis is Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), which is fairly far down on the spectrum for autism. When he was very young he nearly drove me nuts, to put it mildly. We be doing something, it would be going great, then poof! he'd shut down (literally) and you couldn't do a thing with him. I learned through trial and much error to leave him alone when he did that and ignore it. It wasn't defiant behavior although it appeared to be. He was in sensory overload and he'd shut down. If I did make the mistake of trying to move, talk to him omg it threw him into a rage of unbelievable proportions. Gradually I learned what things could trigger him to go into shut down mode and avoid them most of the time. (real life means you can't do it 100 percent of the time lol) But alot of his behaviors could easily been mistaken for ADD/ODD.........which in fact he was evaluated for both.

    Have you got a good daily routine going for difficult child? I found with Travis having a daily routine was critical in preventing unwanted behavior. Seemed like as long as he knew when such and such was going to happen, he was fine. If he was left hanging........he feel apart. I see the same with my grandsons who are also autistic.

    Consistency was also critical, even if it appears NOT to be working. And believe me, for years it seemed not to work at all for Travis. But by his mid teen really began to pay off. And also when I look back now.........I do see that it did make a huge just didn't seem like it when I was deep in the trenches. lol And of course they're never going to be perfect. You'll still have melt downs and unwanted will just be less. Otherwise they'd be easy child's and you wouldn't have had to look for our board.;):tongue:

    Spanking, yelling never phased Travis. I used time out, his room, and taking things away. (hard to ground a kid with no friends)

    Also.....punishment never applied to special occasions. I mean geez, with a difficult child they'd never get to do anything fun......or maybe that was just mine. lol So if it was going to say run into a holiday or like this special birthday would apply before and after but not during the special thing. Worked out pretty well for us.

    Believe me.........when you're right in the thick of it everyday you firmly believe that your kid is the worst on the planet. I used to count the days until Travis turned 18. lol When he did, it turned out not to be a big deal. Figures. But hey, it's what got me through some of the really bad days.

  20. dudley24

    dudley24 Guest

    Hound Dog

    thanks for the imput. I'm convinced that more investigation is needed in regards to Dot's diagnosis but from the research I've already done on autism I'm pretty sure I can rule that out. Dot doesn't have outbursts now adays. Actually she holds a lot of her anger in and when I see her doing that I spend time talking it through with her until I can see the anger leaving her. I've always been very good at reading her body language and she's alot like me in that she can't hide her emotions all that well, or maybe she just can't from me. I may have to redefine how I view Dot's unwanted behavior as the more I read here the more I see she's not as defiant as she is resistant. When I or my hubby ask her to do something and she decides she doesn't wish to do it, Dot will either announce that she wishes to do X instead of what we've asked of her or she'll come up with an alternative to the instructions we've issued. Sometimes Dot will simply ignore the request and go and do what she's decided she would rather do and will have to be redirected, but eventually, and usually with some intense discussion it will get done. Now, in those instances where she has decided she doesn't wish to do it and has ultimately been forced into it a sloppy job with ensue and further intense discussions are necessary for the chore to get completed properly. In those instances where she has thought of an alternative route to the completion of the job we can expect it to take 3xs as long as normal and further prodding and many reminders must be employed. Dot would love nothing better than to have the days go by with her enjoying herself and not have to do anything that requires effort on her part unless it's something that she enjoys doing. 24/7 play time is Dot's ideal life. Unfortunately that also includes school.

    As for sensory over load, Dot can sit and play her PS2 for hours on end without blinking an eye, burning through game after game, without so much as a bathroom break... but ask her to change the kitty litter and she's suddenly hungry and has to pee or is suddenly tired and it takes her an hour to do the job...when you say to her, "hey the quicker you can get it done the quicker you can get back to your game" she takes that as an opportunity to negotiate her way out of doing it....wasting more time, instead of just doing the job and aggrivating her mother. My hubby believes she has the widest lazy streak known to man and I have a tendency to believe there's some ODD stuff going on. though in all honesty after being on this site and looking around a bit I'm starting to think my hubby might be right.

    Also, just to clear something up. Spanking was/has been the only form of punishment Dot's ever responded to. I mentioned before I found the experience distasteful as it just brought up old stuff from childhood that I didnt want to deal with and it made Dot afraid of me and I hated that feeling most of all. I spanked for a relatively short time but it took many years for Dot to get over her fear of being hit...I just can't go there again (aside from the fact that at almost 13 she's too old for that now)

    I do appreciate the imput everyone has given me. If only one thing is clear right now, it would be that I need to have her re-evaluated and soon. Thanks again. D