And I'm Back

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by ARGH, May 19, 2015.

  1. ARGH

    ARGH Exasperated with fighting

    So, the last time I posted or came to this forum was in 2008. We did the neuropsychological testing in 2009 at the Bluebird Circle at Texas Childrens Hospital in Houston and they said there was nothing wrong with him other than ADD. Sorry I never responded to anyone back then but I actually forgot I had signed up here and came across the site again today as I was desperately searching for answers.

    Fast Forward 7 years. He is now 14 and seriously out of control. He lies, steals (uses credit cards with-o permission, stolen over $1,000 cash in the last 2 years, stolen cell phones, emerald necklace, etc.), refuses to comply with orders from ANYONE, has gone from being a GT student to he will effectively fail 8th grade this year and we found out recently that he is involved in smoking marijuana. We have noticed some alcohol in our wetbar missing as well. Also we have noticed some tobacco missing around the house. He refuses to brush his teeth and getting him to shower is a daily struggle.

    I have INSISTED with the psychiatrists (we've been to several) that there is something wrong and they keep pushing it off on ADD. He has been on everything from Concerta, Strattara, Adderall and Vyvanse. NOTHING worked. We have gone through years of therapy and counseling. He continues on a downhill slide. We keep hearing, find an activity to put him in and keep him focused. Let me do a quick run down of his "activities" since he was 4:

    1. Baseball (little league, select team and private coaching) - years played - 2005-2013
    2. Football (little league, school) - years played - 2009-2011
    4. MMA - years - 2010-2012
    3. Horse Showing - years played - 2013-2015
    4. Summer Camp (1 month each year) - 2013-2015

    And pretty much anything else he wants to do, we support even if it's not a long term team sport.

    We bought him a horse in 2013 after he started taking lessons and his trainer realized that he had a natural ability and rhythm with the horse that helped him excel in the sport. He was excited and really loved it. In fact, he was so incredibly gifted (we bought him a horse that was very expensive so that he would have the best to match his skills) that after only doing lessons and riding for 6 months, he showed his horse at the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo against other kids who had ridden and showed all of their lives. He placed in the top 20, won a jacket and several other items. He began going to other shows and ended up winning a variety of items from saddle pads to belt buckles. People began talking about how impressive he was. I thought he had found his niche. Then suddenly, as quickly as he had fallen in love with it, he decided he was done. Of course you can't just walk away from a horse, so we are stuck with him and the monthly bill of $1200 for boarding, training and ancillary items. I have decided to learn the sport and begin showing the horse because he is too good to stand in a stall and do nothing. I can't bring myself to sell him either.

    I called the Bluebird Circle again and requested a new neurologist and psychologist. We did an in-depth interview last week and an MRI yesterday. Friday we will go in for another neuro-psychology testing day (they said it would last at least 6 hours). I am hoping to find some answers. Now with him being a 6 foot tall teen, the struggles in our house have been tremendous. He thinks he is grown now and we are to the point we want to kick him out. Literally. We have exhausted every avenue possible. He could care less and it's very obvious that he has no respect for himself or anyone else.

    Please help! I promise to engage this time. I just got so busy last time researching and looking for answers that I literally forgot I had signed up here.
  2. ARGH

    ARGH Exasperated with fighting

    Here is my original post from 2008, nothing has gotten better, it's all gotten worse.

    ARGHExasperated with fighting
    Hi there!

    I am the mother of a very defiant 7 year old son. I am at my wit's end and am now considering military camp as a last resort. We're (my husband and I) new at this, because our 12 year old and his 17 year old never had behavioral issues. We don't know what to do. Any help is greatly appreciarted.

    Our 7 year old (who I will call CL) is out of control. CL does not mind anyone and in fact, it seems that he thrives off of pushing people to their breaking point. He is extremely argumentative and ALWAYS has to have the last word in any conversation. I have tried on numerous occassions to explain to him that no one appreciates his behavior and that people don't care to be around children who act that way. It seems he doesn't care.

    I can tell him no and it's like a dare to him. Then when I get mad and start yelling at him or I spank him, then he acts like he doesn't understand why I am so mad. BUT... he doesn't do it nearly to the extreme with his dad as he does me. His dad can say no and 8 times out of 10, he leaves it alone. It's like he doesn't care what the consequences are, his impulse is so strong that he can't control it. He does little things that he should know better than to do. For example; at his babysitter's house, he will do something like stick gum on her furniture or purposely break things. Or in the mornings, he knows the routine. He gets up, goes potty, brushes his teeth and hair and then gets dressed. Some mornings he does it like clockwork and then other mornings, he refuses to do any of it until me or my husband get mad at him and he gets a spanking or we start arguing. It is exhausting.

    He is causing a lot of trouble in our house and is the main reason my husband and I fight. It upsets the other children at home and it's almost like it satisfies CL. I just don't understand. CL is a GT (gifted & talented - accelerated) student and is as smart as a whip, yet he doesn't seem to apply that knowledge to every day, common sense things.

    Currently he is on 20 mg Adderall, but when he does take it, he becomes a completely different child. He doesn't want to go outside and play or do anything constructive. He just wants to sit in his room and watch cartoons by himself. It seems there is no happy medium.

    Someone please help!!!

    Read more:
  3. runawaybunny

    runawaybunny Administrator Staff Member

    Welcome back @ARGH I'm glad you found us again, but I'm sorry that you needed to.

    You've been through so much and the professional advice you've gotten up to this point doesn't seem to have helped your son. Hopefully the new team of professionals that you have put together will come up with an accurate diagnosis and a new treatment plan for him.

    It's too bad he he quit riding since that seemed to have been a natural fit for him.

    I just wanted to say hello and let you know I read your posts and understand how frustrated you must be. Hang in there.
  4. ARGH

    ARGH Exasperated with fighting

    Thanks Runaway Bunny.

    My husband finally lost it with CL this morning. CL refuses to do any school work both in AND out of school. I asked him this morning about an assignment he had due today. He had five days to do this since he was not at school last Friday or this Monday because of appointments. He showed me last Thursday where he had started the assignment. His father and I were gone over the weekend for a trip we could not cancel. He was supposed to finish it at his aunt's house. We got home very late Sunday evening and I didn't check it. After another day of appointments yesterday, plus going to the barn to check on the horse and ride him we got home late again. I didn't think to ask for the hw until this morning. He sat there and told me "Mom, it's done". I asked to see it. He hadn't finished anymore of it than he had done when I last saw it on Thursday. His father finally flipped his lid. CL got very cocky with him and it turned into an actual shoving match. Dad is 6'2" and about 235 lbs. CL is 6' and 155 lbs. Dad had CL pinned up against the wall by his shoulders. CL started crying. I had to stop them and send him to school and come to work. CL laughed as he walked down the driveway to the bus. REALLY?! There was nothing funny about that.

    I want to pull my hair out right now. I don't understand my child and it's extremely frustrating.
  5. ARGH

    ARGH Exasperated with fighting

    I forgot to mention that we are so at loss that we have actually begun looking into boys boarding schools/ranches for CL. Our two older children do not even want to be at home because of him, although older brother bites his tongue and tries to do things with CL aside from what dad and I do so that CL feels wanted and loved by his siblings. Older sister calls him occasionally but very rarely comes homes. Grandfather is hesitant about letting CL come spend some time with him this summer because of his erratic behavior. CL used to spend a month at a time with Grandma and Grandpa growing up. Grandma passed away 3 years ago. GM and GP are Norman Rockwell grandparents and have always enjoyed having the grandkids with them.
  6. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Welcome back Argh! Sorrry you needed to be back. Things sound really rough right now. It's scary especially that CL and his dad were in a shoving match. Is he often violent? I'm glad you have more testing coming up. It sounds like he may need an IEP at school to help with things there. Even though he is gifted, he could have the iep for accommodations for homework.

    I wish I had some great advice but know that you will find much support here. Sending some gentle hugs your way.
  7. Confused

    Confused Active Member

    I hope the testing and answers come quick for you him. Has he tried clonidine or something similar with his Vyvanse? Anger management classes or any other similar classes? Maybe depending on his diagnose they might do a Mood Stabilizer medication, I believe my son needs it for his irritability, mood changes and anger.

    Many hugs your way, I hope things get better for you and your family.
  8. search2teach

    search2teach Member

    I private messaged you a local resource we used for our family/daughter.

    Someday I might actually get around to posting our story.

    Until then I continue to...
  9. pasajes4

    pasajes4 Well-Known Member

    My son is 18 and serving time in juvenile prison. A very long time ago, I had a social worker who told me that most people do not understand all of the ramifications of ADHD. Having a diagnosis of ADHD makes the kiddo more likely to engage in the very types of antisocial behavior you are describing. It is not unusual for ADHD to be comorbid with other mental illnesses. It is partially due to brain function/growth and a long string of negative experiences with both adults and peers. With raging hormones, peer pressure, and changing brain chemistry :furious: this can be the result. I obviously was not able to find the magic answer in time for my kiddo.

    I hope you stay with us through your journey. Pat
  10. ARGH

    ARGH Exasperated with fighting

    HI all and thanks for the responses. Not sure what an IEP is, but he is in 504 sanctioned and certain accommodations have been granted to him, but are not effective.

    We have drug tested him and he was only positive for marijuana. As for the consequences of stealing, lying, etc. He no longer has access to social media, texting or telephone at home. Also, he is not left home alone anymore. Either dad or I leave work early to be home when he gets there and he has to go where ever we go or stay with family. He is not allowed to stay with friends since we can't trust any of them. Kindles, Xbox, Iphone and computers have been taken from him. We recently put a lock on our bedroom door and all devices, medications and alcohol are locked in our room daily. It's really a very sad way to live. The only thing I have left him is a television in his room with the basic cable box. Afraid if I give him the updated ones with internet access he will find a way to access all of the things we are trying to keep him away from.

    He just has a general eat poo attitude about everything and unless it's "fun" or something he can be center of attention at he has no interest in participating.

    At our wit's end and PRAYING that we find some new answers and approaches after this weeks testing.
  11. ARGH

    ARGH Exasperated with fighting

    And he was on Clonidine but began having major headaches with that too.
  12. ARGH

    ARGH Exasperated with fighting

    No wiped out he is rarely violent. He does say things like "I just want to punch (insert name) in the freaking mouth". but physically he is not violent.
  13. ARGH

    ARGH Exasperated with fighting

    I re-read my post to see if I left anything out. Here's an interesting tidbit.

    When in public and around strangers, my child is an ANGEL. I get compliments on how well mannered and well behaved he is. He answers adults with ma'am and sir, offers to help with any tasks someone else may be doing (unloading feed or hay at the boarding facility for example), holds doors open for others, etc. It's like night and day. Now at home and school he does the same, BUT we also have to deal with the Hyde personality as well. The refusal to work when asked, the constant arguments, the "screw you" tone of voice and attitude. He never shows this side of his personality outside of school or home.

    Does anyone elses child exhibit these behaviors?
  14. Confused

    Confused Active Member

    Sorry about the Clonidine giving him headaches, and Im glad hes rarely violent. But yes, the defiance is horrible as well for you to deal with. So yes, I know you have done this as well as I have( not consistent but will be again) but flat rules, punishments, rewards) My son could care less on most punishments too, but his one main thing that does really get to him is his outside time, its his release. I know still doesnt always work.

    A 504 is similar to and IEP. Both benefit the student, but the IEP has more involvement with the adults and student and detailed planning of what is to be done or is needed. Homework or classwork is better done at school for my son, very rare does he like to do it at home, it depends on what he likes, and reading and writing a book report is not one of them.

    Yes, my son is similar to yours, he can be two kids in one. He can be so calm in an emergency, helpful to neighbors, funny, amazing smile and laugh, loves to take things apart to see how it works( cant ever fix it), very curious, needs to be around people, kids, animals. Now thats when hes in a "good and or calm mood- but can still be defiant and can be still irritable but not as bad, barely noticeable .Then other child comes out to be demanding, irritable, threatens, violent,breaks his stuff now out of anger and blames us that it was our fault! Completely unable to get his mind focused or changed to something else...Spend his money on his stuff and demand us to pay it back even if in a good mood! He will do things when he wants to, if he wants to and when it benefits him at times- But saying that, he still has trouble getting up, or going to things that HE wanted to do and blames us!!! At school he for the most part is well behaved, most issues there is not doing his work( adhd even tho on the medication) and at stores it can depend, but usually he is bad at the store( unless you let him buy anything he wants and let him pay using self checkout- then, theres hardly any issues )

    The word No, the words, not yet or not now or let me think about it sets him off! I have gotten better and avoiding these terms, but when he asks or yells over and over, I do say them! He also does not like to be reminded or he says he wont do it now, but, he wont do it either way most times. He also gets that look in his eyes and face when mad, we also dont know when something will set him off from a good mood to out of control. It can be a moved cup, not having something ready when he expected, having to changes plans, having to take to long for something which he expects us to jump and drop everything we are doing in less a second and run to him! But see, some days these dont bother him, so we just dont know!

    pasajes4 is right, sometimes, we do all we can, but our kids still have taken the hard road anyway. Hugs pasajes, I do hope things improve for him and your family.

    To the others, good points/questions.
  15. ARGH

    ARGH Exasperated with fighting

    Confused, your son exhibits some symptoms that mine doesn't and never has. Such as small things setting him off. CL normally doesn't get set off by changes as much as he does not getting his way or something not working out correctly the first time he tries. It's like he's just being a spoiled brat. But the incident yesterday was a first. My mind was blown and I am heartbroken because I don't know how to help him.
  16. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    This is a different type of transition, but it's still a transition. And the whole "its gotta be right the first time" lingo is soooooo familiar.

    I think there's more going on than just ADD/ODD and being spoiled.

    If he is, for example bi-polar, then the medications he's on for depression can be making things worse. It's SO complicated!
  17. ARGH

    ARGH Exasperated with fighting

    I know that's what I'm afraid of Insane. If we've been treating him for the wrong condition all along, have we permanently messed him up?
  18. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Join the club!

    My kid is now an adult. And NOW we're getting accurate diagnoses, proper medications adjustments (it will take time to make all the changes needed), support. We needed this stuff at 6 and 12 and 14 and 16...
  19. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    It is so difficult. When I think back to difficult child trialing so medications it is almost unbelievable (and I believe it was the right diagnosis all along). However, in the long run, once we found the right medication combination it has made such a positive difference.
  20. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Actually, your husband didn't act any better than your son. He is the adult. He could get into a lot of trouble fighting with his kid.Violence with a violent, criminally inclined kid won't help anything and, as you saw, the kid feels like he scored a victory by getting husband to fight with him. He probably bragged about it to his friends.

    He sounds like maybe he had a tough first three years of his life, which is where the bonding and stability take place in the brain. He is doing some very serious behaviors. I hope you get help soon. I'm sorry for your sadness and pain.

    Is your husband his father? Are extremely empathy-challenged and bad behaving adults in his DNA? Sadly DNA matters, even if he never sees his birthfather or birthmother who passed along the joy of her temperament and lack of conscience.

    Sounds very much as if he is using drugs or alcohol too much, which is not a good thing and needs to be addressed. Check his room when he's not home for clues. He is still young enough to get help for substance abuse. Once he's eighteen, forget it. He is on his own and can do what he wants and you legally can do nothing. Pot doesn't make a kid have an attitute...I'm betting it's more than pot.
    Last edited: May 20, 2015