Back to warrior mode

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by klmno, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I met with PO- he wouldn't give me definite answers and said we were there to come up with treatment plan so services could get started. OK so we talk about various types of services and I tried to find a compromise solution that still might be of some benefit but not overload us. Then he tried to sell me on reentry giving those services and I cringed at the thought of reentry lady so I said I'd prefer the state funding source and he said he'd check into that. He went back and forth with a lot of things and I starterd getting that feeling that he wasn't telling me the truth or was manipulating- I''m not getting into all that detail right now. But then I asked when difficult child's projected releease date was now and he said he didn't know or didn't have one. And I said that I thought it was the central Department of Juvenile Justice office that had moved it (by law they are the only ones who can) and he said "oh, well, the central office did agree with us here that difficult child did need a step down program". And tthe chips in my brain start adding things up- it appears this po heard that much from central office and took it upon himsellf to tell Department of Juvenile Justice facility to change difficult child's realease date and that's why no one knew to change it what to- see, that's illegal in Department of Juvenile Justice too- both for PO to direct it and to not have a projected release date written down. But I was keeping all that in the back of my mind and we went on talking about services and I asked if difficult child could get a day pass and he said he'd look into it. So then I asked if difficult child would be released in 30 days max assuming he was still behaving since it sounded like he could get everything in place within about a week. And after he said "well, it's a 30-90 day program" about umpteen times, I asked him point blank and he said "no, he couldn't say that he would release him then" and I stood up, said "ok, that's enough, we need a new PO". He said why because he couldn't guarantee me my son would be released in 30 days no matter what, and I said no, because you won't commit to releasing him any time under any circumstances and there's something wrong with this picture, you can't keep my son incarcerated indefinitely with absolutely nothing in writing stating what it takes to be released and you won't commit to anything. He said it's this one little thing and I said NO, it'sd that we have already had one nightmare situation because of you and we are heading into a second one and my son hasn't even been released on parole yet so that's telling me something is seriously wrong and I think we need a new PO because this is a setup for disaster. He said his super might still be there if I'd like to talk to her and I said no thank you, I'm going home.

    Then I got home and found I'd just missed a call from difficult child's def attny returning my call from last week. I'll call him back tomorrow. I think my son is being detained unlawfully and PO further, our state law AND Department of Juvenile Justice regs require a projected release date or a court hearing scheduled when a rrelease date hasn't been determined yet (like when a kid is awaiting trial).

    Steam is coming out of my ears. It should be in writing that the kid will be released in 30 days if ABC but this PO has yet to put anything in writing except the previous "GH" placement.

    Re def attny- I left a message last week saying difficult child had been transferred to detention reentry. difficult child asked to speak to him at visitation and I was just going to give difficult child his phone number so he could call him himself. That hasn't happened yet because difficult child hasn't called me since visitation. But def attny's message said it sounded like things were moving for difficult child to get released soon so unless he heard from me, he'd drop it. Just in case, he said he wasn't sure of what kind of hearing to ask for but he had connections/knew people in the Department of Juvenile Justice system. When I call him tomorrow, I'm going to ask him to check on whether or not central office did in fact order this step-down program after difficult child's release date, thereby resulting in them ordering a change in his release date withhout listing another release date, thereby resulting in difficult child being incracerated until a PO determines otherwise. I can't tell you how many violations of the law are in that one. Further, given that the ddtention center has no establisdhed reentry program, it's leaving PO in charge of the reentry plan.

    I KNOW I'll be writing DOJ now.

    And here's another one- I don't even know who they handed over my son to transport him here. It's the law that it was either to be me, the PO or juvenile court deputies and it's my understanding, it was neither.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
  2. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Yikes! I'm not sure if I totally "get" what is required by law but I do know I'm really sorry that this afternoons meeting didn't net the results you hoped for. Was there any discussion about services upon release? Was there any specific discussion about what criteria has to be met for home visits? Was there any actual discussion about difficult child as he is right now in this placement? And...was there any specific information about the steps difficult child needs to complete before his actual release?

    Sounds like the meeting just didn't result in anything..positive or negative. I'll be trying to absorb the actual situation but at the end of a long stressful day I'm not at my best. by the way how often are you allowed to visit and how is difficult child accepting this new placement. DDD
  3. buddy

    buddy New Member

    (((klmno))) It is all just so over the top unreal, unfair and feels like .... how can this be the USA? It is just too....well, I have no words.
  4. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Yes- this was his point for the mtg. The services that are put in place at the detention center would remain after difficult child returns home- IOW-if in home therapy is ordered, family therapy will begin at detention center and then continue in our home. We compromised on this- he was going to look into something and try to get it in place.

    No- since the detention center has no set established guidelines for detention reentry (like they are supposed to before accepting kids in this), PO establishes all that-- he said he had to get approval- the fact is that he has to recommend it but either way, he said he would ask for a day pass so I could take difficult child to pick out a bed and get sized for shoes/clothing

    As far as what? He's in a detention center doing typical detention stuff.

    That's the point- I said ok, then if the requirements are to get services in place, start then at detention center, then finish them in the home and difficult child has already done his time incarcerated, what else is required other than getting that started, difficult child showing that he's maintaining, and home visits going well? And he said "well we just have to see". I said "see what?" He became evasive and said "it's a 30-90 day program" I said I know but you're the one writing the program so is there anything else? We just have to see. So that's when I asked him point blank, if these things are in place, we are doing them, difficult child is behaving, will he be released in 30 days? He's not saying. That's when I said ENOUGH- this kid needs to see somebody establish the measurable goals and stick to their end of things and neither one of us are seeing this from you (PO) so I think we need a new PO.
  5. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member need to write a fact based letter saying "Based on our meeting of xyz at xyz this is my understanding"...then (1) when we discussed X it was my understanding that Y would be explored with your superiors (2) when we discussed Z it was my understanding that there is no measurable goal for difficult child and...etc. As I stated at the conclusion of our meeting I believe that perhaps difficult child should have a PO who can provide assurance of m, n, and o. If there is any misunderstanding please notify me by return correspondence. Based on my research I believe that the goals for difficult child based on the Department of Juvenile Justice guidelines are "whatever". Tell the truth and put it in writing. If there is any chance that you have misunderstood you need to leave the door open. If you have not misunderstood you will be referencing the specifics that you believe are actually the guidelines. I can't fill in the blanks, sorry, but if it is based on fact and you approach it that way in lieu of personal conflict I think you'll have a better chance of assuring that difficult child has the shot he is entitled to for living in the community.

    I am really sorry it was so disappointing for you. Although that is totally true I think you have to make sure that in writing you are identifying the specific reasons you are unhappy with the treatment plan (or lack of plan) for your difficult child. Hugs DDD
  6. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Oh- one other thing came out- whatever services are put in place, like in-home therapy type services, I have to sigh agreement to them too. So here's the way it's looking to me- PO and his super are finding out that as parole officers, not probation officers, they do have to have parental agreement for a lot of things, such as placement and any therapy that involves me, and they aren't liking that too much. Therefore, they are trying every way in the book to hold difficult child incarcerated to force my hand. The problem is, this is an illegal incarceration.
  7. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    DDD- this didn't occur due to not being happy with services that were discussed. It occurred because he said even if we did all that and difficult child did what he was supposed to for 30 days, he "couldn't say he'd have difficult child rleased". Now first of all, it's not up to a PO when a kid gets released from Department of Juvenile Justice in this state. I think being that you are unfamiliar with our state laws and with the way the POs super got in my face telling me they'd do what they want with difficult child and let him come home when they want, you are still trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. I can see doing that under the circumstances- cyber-friend, not knowing our juvy laws, not knowing the personlaities of the PO and super and reentry lady, but I'm raising huge red flags for good reason and I'm confident about that.
  8. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I'm going to try my computer one more time, lol, before I go to bed. I have lost two replies..RATS!

    Of course I don't know your State's laws nor do I know mine in relation to your situation. on the other hand you are confident that you know what is required by State statute. So...I think it would be wise to go on records with the specific recap of why your meeting ended as it did. I think it would be wise to state what was acceptable and what was not acceptable...according to State guidelines, so it does not appear that it is "personal". That way he can either respond or not respond but you will be on record.

    Truly I am sorry for what you're going thru and what difficult child is going thru. on the other hand I anticipate that if it is perceived as a "head butting" situation it will be treated differently than if it is a position based on State statute. I do care.

    I also care whether my blankin' computer will send this thru. DDD
  9. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Oh, my!
    You are, indeed, a Warrior Mom.
    I agree with-DDD, put in writing why the mtng ended the way it did.
    Let us know what the def atty says tomorrow.
    I hope you get some sleep. I'd be tossing and turning. And using the sheets to practice strangulation of POs.
    (PO stands for P*ssed Off, right?)
  10. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am so sorry. It must be tempting to try to just move out of state and then find a new job so that they MUST let him go now. This PO is NUTS and so is his super. I hope the def atty will get this going ASAP and get him OUT.
  11. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    I have no words, k. This just keeps getting stranger and stranger.

    Tossing my extra WM shield and sword your way...
  12. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I'm trying to find a job outside of this state- I'd be gone as quick as possible. Oddly enough though, I feel like my efforts are resulting in tiny baby steps- PO had difficult child's file in front of him today and referred to the MH evaluation and letter from difficult child's private psychiatrist in there- he would never had known about them if I hadn't written state and included that the PO and his super were trying to form a parole plan without even reading difficult child's file. Honestly, it's exhausting and heartbreaking to know that you have to file a written complaint before that is done- it's a no brainer and it's law. But they hadn't done it. They have done it now. They now know that they can't order whatever they want if a parent isn't in agreement. But this state needs to be held accountable- and someday, they will be. Not by me doing something to someone personally but by many efforts to get this out in the light. I was reading the meeting notes from the state's workforce groups that were brought together to study what is going wrong in Department of Juvenile Justice- one of them pointed out that a lot of the problem is "territorial attitudes" with people in various agencies. Yeah- that reminds me of the county funding mtg a few years ago when I said difficult child was at home swing a knife around and cutting himself and dss and MH said Department of Juvenile Justice had to deal with it because difficult child was on probation so it had to come out of their funding pool. And what happened less than 1 week later? So I know I'm not the only person recognizing and trying to bring to light that something is wrong in this state.

    I can't stop the effects on my son, unfortunately. But I can fight tooth and nail to help bring this to the public and higher authorities so maybe someday it will change.

    As far as difficult child- I have given up on them doing anything sensible. If PO hasn't figured out for himself what it will take for him to feel comfortable habing difficult child on parole, then he never will. But you don't keep a kid incarcerated for that reason. Even a judge can't do that unless it's a case of manslaughter or murder. So if his PO can't identify what it is he needs to see before difficult child gets released, then we need a different PO. And if this has been going on since Oct/Nov, I'm thinking they have nothing so release difficult child and we'll just deal the best we can. But my kid is getting strip searched 3x/day and for those of you who know how that goes, it's degrading. This is uncalled for. And where the fed money/taspayers dollars that are meant to cover a detention reentry plan are going is beyond me. They've been getting that money for a year and claiming to have a pilot project underway.

    There are several illegal things going on here.
  13. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I would send a memorandum of understanding of what you talked about at this meeting. That way if this PO decides he wants to contest something he can put it in writing and hang himself, if he doesnt, so much the better.
  14. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    Send that memo certified, so you get a delivery stamp and can prove it was received.
  15. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Good idea- I took the day off to get this stuff written out and make some phone calls- attny mainly. I'll send a copy of the memorandum to PO, the director of the local CSU, and Department of Juvenile Justice central office. Then, I'm writing fed DOJ and getting that in the mail.
  16. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Sending strength and warrior vibes. This state will be better because of you and your difficult child.
  17. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    What's a simpler way to word this first sentence?

  18. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Try to tie the specifics together with what you understand the guidelines or statues to be. In our conversation of Feb. 22nd, held at your office at 4 PM it appeared we were in agreement on the following conditions. (l), (2) and shared a common goal for difficult child to be integrated into society in the least restrictive and most supportive way.

    It became apparent, however, that the benchmarks for sustainable goals presented on behalf of Department of Juvenile Justice does not conform with ?? statute ?? law ?? policies outlined in State publication Z. "The incarcerated youth shall be provided with goals that prepare for reentry into society and support those goals in the most timely manner" (Or, whatever is stated.) When asked specifically when difficult child will be eligible for release if he continues to mainain your response was "?? perhaps thirty or ninety days??" When asked how he earns the earliest release the response indicated that it is capriciously decided and not in accordance with a specific plan. My understanding is that XYZ stipulates a written plan was suppose to have been provided thirty days prior to his release date from the prison. Neither difficult child nor I, as his custodial parent, has ever received that plan and now it appears we are not to receive a child specific plan at this temporary placement either.

    difficult child has successfully completed his sentence. He has been transferred to X as a trasitionary step to returning home. He deserves and is legally entitled to a written plan of reentry. It was our hope that this weeks meeting would result in agreeable written goals so he would not have to experience the anxiety of having no directional goals. Being in limbo is resulting in unwarranted stress that I fear could jeopardize my sons future.

    I strongly believe that I have made every effort to be a "team player". I have followed the rules and mandates set by Department of Juvenile Justice for x months. Unfortunately teams have to follow the same rules in order to reach success. Our rule books appear to be missing and therefore a common goal and plan of action hasn't been charted. Perhaps it is time to bring in supplemental advisors so difficult child can look forward to his freedom.

    Something specific, not too accusatory, mentioning the areas of agreement to indicate that working together you can agree, focusing on the goals. Possibly ?? ending the letter with a specific request?
    "I would like to request that we attempt one more meeting to see if a written plan can be worked out for difficult child's benefit. Obviously I am eager to get this resolved within the next ten working days." Please advise if and when you can schedule this conference. Sincerely KLMNO

    ?? Likely what I would do...which, of course, doesn't mean it is the best choice. I do think it is the most expedicious choice and time is of the essence. Hugs DDD
  19. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    This is still considered incarceration in Department of Juvenile Justice. That's the problem- and PO was supposed to have the decisions made 90 days prior to release and he still cannot define in measurable terms what he is requiring before "he" allows difficult child to be released and returned to my custody. These are written in several places in our state laws and well-known in the circles of Department of Juvenile Justice/juvy courts. Remember how I mentioned the 2 branches of Department of Juvenile Justice- one being csu and the other being the facility side? Unless a judge ordered a specific time incarcerated, it's up to the facility side to determine length of time incarcerated and only the director of Department of Juvenile Justice can change that but even if the director changes that, it has to be changed to some other projected release date. A PO does not have authority to do that because the PO is low man on totem pole on csu side of things. PO is too busy spending efforts on things that aren't his job and he doesn't have authprity to do but has spent almost no time concentrating on what he was legally required to do- which is to have things in place prior to difficult child's release.
  20. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    No, I understand that PO hasn't done what he was suppose to do and still is not doing what he is suppose to do. Got it. on the other hand you want this resolved ASAP because it should be legally done that way but most of all you do not want difficult child to loose sight of the light at the end of the tunnel. His emotional state is foremost in my thoughts.

    You can (and may have to) seek a change of PO's or hire an attorney etc. but that will take time. in my humble opinion if you write a specific letter keeping it to the facts and requesting a followup with written plan available you will know if this can be done on a short road or another precarious long road. You want resolution. You have a legal right to a written plan. The fastest way to get something in writing is thru the personnel you have (even if they are inept or resistant). That way you will know for sure what steps you need to take next.

    I'm eager to have difficult child "know" what is to come. To me that is the most important goal. Hugs DDD