Be careful about student loans

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by indymom, Nov 5, 2016.

  1. indymom

    indymom New Member

    Our daughter was very belligerant the moment she turned 14. We took her to therapy and the diagnosis was conduct disorder. After destruction of property (putting holes in the walls) we had her arrested for incorrigibility. Nothing else was working.

    She graduated from high school but did not attend the graduation. She wanted out, she wanted to leave. She went to college and lasted there less than a year, attending parties, pot, you name it. Rampant sexual behavior with allegedly scores of men.

    My husband signed her student loans. He did not check with me, he was on autopilot. he wanted her to have a chance at life. He didn't know she was spending her loan money on a $500 kitty litter box, electric violin, a couple of pure bred shih tzus (one for her and one for her boyfriend at the time).

    She wanted to be a chef. He paid for schooling for that, student loans.

    the loans went to $120k. She got her AA in culinary, and split for code school on the west coast with her boyfriend and has her loans on deferment. My husband did parent plus so the loans grew to the $120k because she wasn't paying on them and interest charges were piling up. When he found out, he started paying them, to the tune of $1400 per month. We had to sell our house and move to a really bad neighborhood in a city up north.

    When I couldn't take the neighbors knock out drag out fights, I asked what we could do...fortunately all of our equity had paid off the house we were living in, so we got a line of equity on that house and bought a house on a cash sale in a peaceful country town that is actually worth what we paid plus $120 more. We have recovered with the equity in our home, but I am so upset that she did this, and upset that my husband didn't talk to me about it. I don't want him to feel any worse than he already does about it.

    Let's put some icing on the cake, shall we? She's marrying her boyfriend in 2017, as we found the wedding announcement on the internet. Of course she didn't contact either of us to let us know she was doing this. She has cut us off. She has told us that the student loan is our punishment for being "bad parents". She said "I don't love you!" then admits she loves us but only a little. Her boyfriend can't stand us.

    The little girl she had with this man - put her arms around me when I last saw her, and said "oh Grandma, I love you so much!" Her mom taking drugs, her father cheating on her mother, which caused the fight that had me fly across the country. Due to memory lapses, she told me to please find a home for the expensive parrot that talks, and when I did, she said I didn't have permission to do that - and threw me out of her apartment. I had a rental car and an airline flight 2 weeks out...I drove to my sister in laws and got another flight home.

    Do you ever feel that with these kids that have conduct disorder growing up, their expectations of you were thru the ceiling and if you didn't tow the line, you were awful parents?

    I remember a Christmas when my husband had partial layoffs, thus a humble Christmas with books and sweaters, you know, normal Christmas presents. She expected so much. She went around, got her and her siblings Christmas gifts - as I was working on dinner, I found them in the trash. Broke my heart. My husband couldn't afford gifts that year due to the work situation, so I had earned the money for them.

    No matter what I did no matter how I tried, I wasn't good enough to be loved by my daughter. I was only good for cleaning her dishes, doing her laundry and duties. Christmas was about serving her, not about being a family. She told our oldest daughter that I was narcissistic, oldest daughter was buddies with her and well, they are both gone. Our sons are still with us.

    I wonder if someday, my baby grandaughter will come find me when she's all grown up. I don't know how they feel it is correct to remove her maternal grandparents from their life. My husband was ousted because he wouldn't take a stance against me when I told her to pay her student loans and he supported my stance. He has never been able to be really firm with her. he tried and she pretty much laughs it off.

    We are tired, so very tired. When I am at the department stores, I will consciously walk really fast by the children's clothing area so I don't have to see the cute outfits and be reminded of my granddaughter. I do love my daughter but drugs have friend her brain. Unfortunately her conduct disorder morphed into dissassociative disorder, where she will literally go "blank slate"...in times of extreme stress and attempt suicide. She's done it 3 times and it's always a result of a boy relationship gone bad.

    So get this. in January of this year, she had a restraining order against her boyfriend for "abusing her" and now, she's marrying him? It makes no sense.

    We are left with toxic memories and a bill for $120k for money we didn't spend. She did. The money is locked up in our new house now, so we have equity we earned by several wise decisions made, but I am not sure we will be able to forgive her for what she has done to us in our empty nested years. Gone are the dreams of going on a second honeymoon (we wanted to go to Europe). She took that from us.

    but she took away from us something far more important. Granddaughter, our precious little granddaughter, whom I am confident we will never see again. Our daughter has told us she doesn't want her daughter to be around us, that we are toxic. yet back in January one of her own friends said "wow your mom flew across the country to be with you during this difficult time". Yes, I did. Both my husband and I loved a little too much.

    Don' t sign the student loans, unless you want to tempt fate and be stuck with them like we were.
     
  2. runawaybunny

    runawaybunny Administrator Staff Member

    Welcome @indymom

    You have been through so much and tried so sincerely, I'm so sorry that it's taken these heart breaking turns.

    You may find this Article on Detachment helpful.

    Thank you for taking the time to share your parenting experiences and especially offering the advice not to sign student loans. Hopefully your words will help another parent that is asked to co-sign. I think that same advice would apply to co-signing for anything.
     
  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Sounds like your daughter is a hot mess likely with a personality disorder. I am sorry about how she hurt you and her father. She apparently a limited ability to feel love or appreciation. It's not your fault. Sounds as if she has always been this way and has been well loved, but cant care or appreciate you or anyone. She will likely be a nightmare for her husband and daughter too. It's not personal. She just isnt nice. Some people seem to be born lacking the heart most people have. I have a son like this. Thankfully I have other kids with empathy. I hope you do too.

    I hope you can enjoy your new life. Doesnt sound like there is any point in giving her money for anything anymore. I wouldn't pay for the wedding, which sounds like a divorce waiting to happen. You will probably hear from her again when she needs a rescue or money.

    I hope you say no. She will never appreciate it and will continue to punish you.

    Go on with your lives. You deserve to be happy and be around folks who appreciate your goodness. And please be good to yourself by refraining from reading anything of hers, especially Facebook, on the internet.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2016
  4. BloodiedButUnbowed

    BloodiedButUnbowed Active Member

    Thank you for sharing your story. I am facing my codependency and control issues with respect to my out of control stepson and I need to hear what you are saying.

    Did your incorrigibility petition work out at all for your daughter, did she get help, was she held accountable in any way, shape or form?

    It sounds like her decisions never got better and now there is an innocent child, your granddaughter, suffering as a result. I am so sorry to hear this.
     
  5. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    Welcome Indy,

    Your story is a familiar one. I'm so sorry you have to endure her outrageous behavior. You do not deserve the treatment she is giving you and to keep your granddaughter from you is just cruel.

    Yes, I know this feeling well. It didn't matter how much we did for our son it was never good enough. My son has screamed to my face that I was the worst mother ever. It used to really bother me but I made a choice several years ago to take my life back. I was not a perfect parent and quite frankly there is no such thing. All parents make mistakes. I did the best I could. We gave our son a stable home - mom and dad both working - dinner every night as a family - went to church, etc....... My son had a good childhood, I know this and will not buy into him trying to convince me otherwise. He can believe what he wants, I know the truth.

    She is making a very poor decision in marrying a man that has abused her. It is my guess that she will grow tired of living in this kind of relationship and will probably reach out to you at some point. It's pretty common with our difficult adult kids that they want nothing to do with us until the floor drops out from under them, then suddenly they "need" us.

    Forgiveness is not for your daughter, it's for you. I learned a long time ago that I needed to forgive my son for all the chaos he caused in my life. I no longer wanted to hold that bitterness in my heart. Forgiveness does not mean that I have forgotten nor does it mean that I trust my son.

    As for the student loan thing, I too took on my son's student loan debt. I didn't want him to have poor credit. What was I thinking!:crazy2:
    The bank of mom and dad is permanently closed!

    Hang in there. I'm glad you found us here, it's a great place to vent without any judgment.
     
  6. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    Indymom:

    So sorry to hear your nightmare of a story!

    I think you need to disown your daughter. I'm sorry to say that but I think I would be able to do it if I were you. I think I could even do it with my own son if his drug use continues. He is doing good NOW but I don't know what he will do in the future. All I know is that I cannot take it. I will not let anyone treat me badly ever again or they will not be in MY life.

    Hugs and I hope that you find peace with whatever you decide.
     
  7. ksm

    ksm Well-Known Member

    I guess I don't understand how she was able to have so much in student loans. I just assumed that the loans went to the school...how did it happen that she seemed to have a blank check for all those unnecessary items? KSM
     
  8. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    It depends on the type of loan. When I went back to school for my teaching credential, I was able to get enough in loans to not only pay for school, but to live on for the year and a half it took me to finish.

    Repayment has been a disaster, but that's another story.
     
  9. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    So the message here is for parents not to cosign?
     
  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Cosign only if you can either take a huge financial hit or your college student is serious about college AND a thriving, responsible young adult who keeps his word.

    And if you can't afford the loss if your kid misuses or doesn't pay his loan, be honest to yourself about the character and ethics in your child. You are not giving a child a leg up just because you pay for college if the child is going to abuse the money.unless you are very rich and can take the hit.

    Your irresponsible child who maybe used or uses drugs is not a good bet to cosign anything with unless you assess your own financial situation because it is you who will probably pay it all. And you know your own child's pattern of responsibility. Don't fool yourself or it could be costly.

    There are grants too. My daughter found out about them too when she went to school. We know also that our very responsible future cop will definitely pay for her loan.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2016
  11. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    When you incur a federal debt, you give the government the ability to take your tax refunds (both federal and state) and attach your wages AND your Social Security. Private student loans have different rules, but they are brutal about getting that money back.
     
  12. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    I did co-sign student loans for my three adult kids. However, I knew they would pay them back themselves and not stick me with the bill.
    Two of the three have paid their loans off in full, long ago. One still has some to go, but I have no worries.

    I think the lesson here is two-fold...make sure you don't sign for a loan that you can't afford to pay back, and make sure that you are making a wise investment, not an emotional one.

    And I definately wouldn't co-sign for a loan that I didn't think my young adult could reasonably pay off. I have a problem with young people being saddled with a crushing debt at the beginning of their adult lives.

    My hubby told his D C (oldest) that he had to take out loans on his own and dad would pay them off at the end of the year, if he had a certain acceptable grade. Of course, this didn't happen, and son dropped out and defaulted and the government is taking his tax return every year till it gets paid in full.

    The younger son got a full scholarship but took out loans to pay living expenses, which we were against, since he could have lived free at home and gone to the same school. His mom had convinced him that dad would HAVE to pay his living expenses if he moved out, and that she would help, too. She has renigged on most of what she said she would pay for, and while dad did pay for some things he felt was reasonable, he decided he was not going to finance an apartment when it was unnessassary.