Being who we are, even if FOO is different and doesn't like it

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I told them if they dared to show their faces I would shoot them
This is what saved you, PASA, your fight. There are so many children that go along with what was done to them, take the crumbs, or identify with the perpetrators and become like their parents, only to repeat it.

You were strong and brave even then.
My mother gave the dress that I paid for and all the trappings were changed so that my sister had my wedding. The food for the reception that I paid for was eaten by the guests at her wedding
This strikes home for me. It is this cruelty that is emblematic of each of our stories. The idea of the parent: I can do whatever I want to you. You do not matter enough for me to do better.

We are not worth enough to care for. And worth so little they can stomp over our souls. And until we are big enough to no longer need them, we have to take it. Powerless. And call it love.

PASA, thank you for sharing your story. It bears witness to my own.

COPA
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Thank you, Copa. I would want him to know that he meant everything in the world to me. And that I would have done better if I could. I will do the same, for your child. That would matter, I think. For them to know the indescribable joy for us in their existence.

And for them to see the pattern in it, and that it mattered to us so much that they were alive, and that they loved us.

:O)

Cedar
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
And for them to see the pattern in it, and that it mattered to us so much that they were alive, and that they loved us.
I wonder if they have ever guessed their importance to us now. How we devote our days and nights to being better for them, and for ourselves, in their names.

I would be a shell of a person had I not loved my son. I do not see how I could have lived past middle age without him to love and loving me. I do not even want to think about how I would have lived the rest of my life.

Maybe this was part of the problem: our sons felt they were everything to us. And their lives alone paled. They resent the way they were loved. Because it ended. That love that would not let anything else touch it, had to end. And that is what our son's will not forgive us for.

COPA
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Maybe this was part of the problem: our sons felt they were everything to us. And their lives alone paled.
Or is this another way of blaming myself?

Or am I erring by not being patient, accepting the twists and turns of life? What do "normal" parents, do, when grown sons feel sorry for themselves and seem stuck? I doubt they fault themselves for loving them too much.

I am thinking about my nieces and sister upon hearing about the young American college student killed in Paris. The last time I was at her home, about 5 or 6 years ago, there was this ritualistic performance by her girls, then about 20.

One girl had returned or was preparing to go abroad to Brasil for a semester. The other was sharing her plans. I do not remember where she wanted to go.

Why I call it ritualistic, a performance, is because I recall your sister Cedar, coaching her grandchildren to sing patriotic songs for company, with your sister basking in the reflected glory.

It is not the pride of my sister that I found hard to take, it is the sense of my nieces, imparted by the mother of their overarching importance, that their development was more that of prized specimens, then persons among other people.

My sister's children were basking in their expectation of applause from their audience, me. There was less the sense of sharing of plans, of anticipation, of entering adulthood and adult experience of commonality, than, display. Entitlement. Arrogance. The I as "me" not "we."

Of course my sister sought to raise far different children than did I.

And of course this semester or year abroad is part of an upper middle class college student's right of passage, nowadays. I never did strive to raise a middle class or upper middle class child.

But my son strives to display the opposite: Defeat. Undeserving. He strives to personify a person with low self-esteem while privately, with us, dominating and arrogant.

How did that happen? M says we are the only ones he feels he can dominate. I see him trying to dominate many people, while he seeks to pretend something else.

What in the world did I do wrong?

COPA
 
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New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Maybe this was part of the problem: our sons felt they were everything to us. And their lives alone paled. They resent the way they were loved. Because it ended. That love that would not let anything else touch it, had to end. And that is what our son's will not forgive us for.

Love changes. It has to. In order for our children to grow and to separate from us we have to shift some of that be all end all love back to ourselves. They must learn to love themselves as independent beings and to love outward to a future mate. We still love them but not that all encompassing my whole world love we had for them when they were small helpless children.

Pas is right, the love changed, just as in the natural order of things.
We can see this in the animal kingdom.

I am outside in the cool breeze watching my hens as they free range.
We let them out in the late afternoon.

So naturally, I will reflect on this discussion through an observation of chickens.
Not mine, wild ones.
My girls are egg layers. We do not want to eat fertilized eggs,
so no hanky panky with roosters for them.
I digress.

We have an over abundance of feral chickens here. Any time of the year, one can observe wild hens with their little clutches foraging. They risk their lives sitting on their eggs in the bush, waiting for their chicks to hatch. They do not eat or drink for days, then necessity drives them to nourish themselves. Hens make a great cackling noise away from their nest, to fool predators, drawing danger to themselves. When their chicks emerge, mother hens can be seen sheltering them with her body. A cute sight it is, a fluffed up hen, with two dozen chick feet, beneath her. That is all you see, their little feet.
She is in grave danger on the ground, protecting her chicks.
6934866406_6e2b39d892_o.jpg

They forage endlessly through out the day. The chicks follow the mother hen, and peep loudly if left behind. All the while she is talking to them, clucking, clucking, calling them to follow her. Her attentiveness to her clutch is beyond self care, it is directed solely on her chicks survival.
When threatened by a dog or cat, the hen fluffs her body and brazenly attacks the offender.
Dogs and cats generally leave mother hens alone.
Smart doggy, smart kitty.
As the chicks grow, mama hen continues to guard them,
but some of them become naughty, and don't listen.
She continues to cluck and scold them, but still, they don't listen; one can hear their shrill peeps of protest, as they are left behind. Sometimes the naughty ones don't make it, because they don't listen. The naughty ones are always noticeable, because they ignore their mama and don't listen as their siblings do, they stall, and stray,
they make such a racket of noise when they can't see the rest, as if to say
"You left me, how dare you leave me, I am such a poor, poor thing!"
When it is the naughty chicks fault, all along.
(Even naughty chicks try to blame their mamas.)
When the chicks start to feather, and can fly a bit,
they venture a little further from the hen.
She lets them.
Until one day, they are old enough to go on their own.

What can any of us do, in our situation with our d cs?
We can analyze and examine it till the cows come home, it still won't make any sense.

Everybody is different, children are all different.
We could be the best, protective, loving,
self sacrificing mothers in the world,
like the hens I see, and still,
even they have naughty chicks who refuse to listen.

We did our best job, Copa, you did your best.
You loved your son with all your heart, and you still do.
I believe he is telling you he loves you, in his own way,
when he scolds you about your health,
as you do the same for him.

But my son strives to display the opposite: Defeat. Undeserving. He strives to personify a person with low self-esteem while privately, with us, dominating and arrogant.

How did that happen? M says we are the only ones he feels he can dominate. I see him trying to dominate many people, while he seeks to pretend something else.

What in the world did I do wrong?

You did nothing wrong Copa,
he is himself, as you are yourself.
You have written kind answers
to folks asking this question
over and over saying this.
We try to do the best we can for our children,
the rest is up to them.
Each child is so different.

Perhaps son is more comfortable at home,
and begins to feel his "oats".
Test the waters.
It is not okay, if he is crossing boundaries.

Cluck at him Copa, like the mother hen would,
let him know when he is crossing the line
and disrespecting you.
Cluck at him, Copa.

(Warning this could be offensive to some, due to almost graphic chicken language)

Naughty Chicks!

OMG, I can't believe I just found this.
I shall be banned.
I wasn't going to post it, but it appeared
when I typed in naughty chickens.
I couldn't put "naughty chicks"
(hello, all kinds of unimaginable stuff would possibly appear, ewwww)
I figured I had to put it in,
it was just perfect.
seriously,
I am not kidding.
If I have offended
anybody
oops

NaughtyLeafy!
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
I am thinking of a story the hubs cousin in law told me.
You know, Hawaiian cousins are thought of as brothers and sisters,
because of the close relationship to one another.
This cousin in law is a character. He is funny, and stern. He has lived many lives.
He has the most marvelous laugh and smile.

He spoke of driving with his family as a young child,
to a remote area to visit an old aunty they had not seen in quite sometime.
When she heard the car coming up the old dirt road,
she began to cry, and wail,
she was so happy to see them,
and sad
and also mad
that she hadn't seen them in such a long time.
So this, happy, sad, mad wailing in Hawaiian old aunty
went out to greet the carload of her ohana
and as she was wailing,
bent down to pick up...
rocks.
She started to hurl the rocks at them
and curse.
The rocks flew all around the car.

Our cousin said he didn't know what to think
here he was a young child
going to see this aunty
and she was throwing rocks at them!

His parents waited patiently
until she calmed down,
and the shower of rocks ceased.
Getting out of the car,
they went to her,
and she hugged each of them with the biggest,
longest hugs,
laughing
and crying at the same time.
Scolding them for not coming sooner.
She fixed them a delicious meal.
And they ate and talked story
and sang songs.

Sometimes love is like that.

Sometimes
love
is
like
that.

leafy
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Wow. Just wow. Powerful posts that resonate. Beaurifully expressed. Perfect. Thank you for the thoughts.

I have/ stopped trying to make people who are u.kind to me a part of my life. It is tremendous work on my part, with no results. I find it saner for me just to let them go. To me, I have no siblings. Really, I never did. I had no mother.

I am unable to fool myself anymore and I found out who was there with mi in the hospital when had my accident. Who really cared. Sone were not dna connections. Many were friends. I did not find out who came until I was finally totally conscious four weeks later.

At times like that you find out who is worthy of your heart, especially if you are so.meebody who really really gives his or her heart to toved ones.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
What in the world did I do wrong?

Maybe, nothing.

Think of moms with four or five children. And one or two seem determined to follow a different path. And the poor mom is still a mess over that one or two, but has her other children. So, she can understand the betrayal was the child's.

She can respond appropriately.

She loves the troubled child with her mother's love, but protects the other children, and the family unit, from the troubled child.

Our troubled children were the family unit.

Just like in Tapestry, our hands came up empty.

And our families of origin celebrate that, the weird little ducks.

Maybe this was part of the problem: our sons felt they were everything to us. And their lives alone paled. They resent the way they were loved. Because it ended. That love that would not let anything else touch it, had to end. And that is what our son's will not forgive us for.

I am thinking about that Copa, but I think that is not it. For my son, for certain, it has to do with drug use. Leafy or Feeling had a thread on P.E. about ice pipes. She said she hadn't known what those were. Neither did I. So, I looked them up. My son was using those kinds of pipes all the time. He would show them to me, and want to know whether I thought they were beautiful. I thought he'd developed an interest in glass blowing and was using the glass pipe to smoke grass. I learned about glass blowing, and would tell my son about this or that place we might go to see glass blown.

He was never interested.

I thought about all that, the day Feeling or Leafy posted about ice pipes.

They are used to smoke meth, Copa.

Meth!

***

I think my son got into the habit of being angry and accusatory and demanding during the addiction years. I think (because this is what he tells me) that he feels we abandoned him to chase after his sister. And in our new understanding of abandonment, a young boy's life crashing down around his ears would constitute abandonment. But I think we could have come through this differently had drugs not happened, and I believe this is true for your son, too.

We cannot afford to be eating ourselves alive with recrimination or regret.

If there were something, we would change it but there is nothing a mother whose intentions were good could have done that a grown man, whose mother's intentions are still good, cannot have recovered from. Our sons' and daughters' lives and addictions and failings are not something we need feel shame for ~ and certainly, not shame before our families of origin. The shame we should feel is for the responses our morally criminal families of origin mounted to the tragedies happening to us, and to our children. That our children have done what they have done is nothing more than a series of terrible things that happened to people we love. That our families of origin judge our children (and us, of course) for what those toxic families have devoutly prayed for (remember the Ring of Thorns my sister prayed around myself and my family) is testament to the moral character of the people we have protected all of their lives. And I am talking about the mothers here too, because the roles we were forced into served them very, very well, too.

Just as you protected your sister Copa by choosing the dungeon at the heart of the City, I protected mine (and my brothers, too). Pseudo mom is hated (and loved, is shamed before and is shamed), not only by the sibs, but by the mother, too.

Which is a pretty cheap freaking shot, when you think about it.

Healthy families circle the wagons. Ours do too, but the center of the circle is where they burn us at the stake. This is done to eradicate the witness. The witness, who is only that little girl (or that little boy) from the dungeon at the center of town and who care whether they suffer so long as we do not.

That is how our weird duck families of origin operate ~ that is how they function at all Copa, in the face of the hatred at the heart of them.

Remember my mother, giddy that she was the only one left alive to tell the story and proceeding to create a murderess of my dead grandmother. That will go into the "geneology" my mother is concocting. In it, there is very little about her family of origin.

An interesting series of omissions.

We need to stop accepting anything to do with how our families of origin see things, Copa. Those times of sadness or self accusation: That is the family of origin within.

Certainly, our children should not be carrying water for our morally deficient families of origin. Not only will our dysfunctional, hatred based families of origin not have made an exception for our children, but their vision will have informed our own. And that is exactly what happened, once the families we had created with our children became vulnerable. There will be the same evil, flowing like water and shriveling everything it touches and that is just how our FOO love it.

Stop it, Copa. Both you and I will see with our eyes clear from this point forward. In those times we feel defeated by the problems our children face, we will recognize family of origin moral turpitude and eradicate it and them and their nasty, prying little fingers from our psyches, and from the negative tapes hissing away in our heads.

Thinking in those self defeating ways will not help us, only weaken us.

We need to stay focused, and aware.

If we learn of a better way, that is what we will do. For now, this is the better way we learned. It has cost us time and attention and presence but it is making a difference for us and for our children.

We are almost there. We will recognize the place we are going when we see our children as fine people, people who are ours and are part of us and always will be. Their problems and how we do our parts to make them strong enough to face them will simply be what happened, next.

Our children love us, Copa.

We can go very far on that knowledge.

That other, twisted stuff was family of origin stuff. Was our children sensing our weaknesses to cover their own. And though that had to do with the moral depravity that happens with extensive drug use...the weaknesses, the broken places, existed within us already. We need to be stronger than that.

It is like we have been crawling after our children and our families of origin, our ringing beggar's cup held high. We need to be instead like the eye of the hurricane. Like the quiet, certain center around which chaos revolves.

And eventually, chaos will subside.

Change is certain.

The sister's children will have been raised to bask in the mother's favor at your humiliation, Copa. Or your grief or your pain or your presence, come home from the storm to once again and forever more, protect the mother.

The sisters lie, Copa.

Refuse to be humiliated. Our families of origin cannot be trusted. None of this ~ not from condemning your son because you tripped going after him to the sister's children performing on cue to cut you with a thousand invisible knives that leave you bleeding but not sure why ~ none of it should ever have happened to you or to your son.

They poison our very vision, Copa.

They are deadly.

We are the fox, carrying the scorpion across the river for no other reason than that they asked us to do so.

Stop carrying them, Copa.

I am falling through layer after layer of denial regarding my family of origin. That my nieces and nephews will have been brought up believing in the awe/patronization circle is just a fact.

Roar.

It is better to know.

Toxic, all of it. We have no families Copa, other than those we create for ourselves.

We need to get them out of our heads, Copa.

It was not the money. It would be accepting that I was how she defined me.

And this must be why I am outraged when M treats me badly. I scream to say, no more. I will never again submit.

I will never believe myself to be that cheapened thing I was sold for, again. The corrupted, cheapened win ~ not for them, and not for anyone else. Soon, the screaming will be over. Silence will fall, and your vision will be crystal clear.

You will see M.

He will see you.

The blinders both required drop away, or they do not.

That I was sold for so cheap a win is the heart of the offense I feel today. How cheap was the win. How stupid, the thing won at such cost to myself. And they still insist on it, in exactly the way that one of us had posted about the naked, knobby kneed Emperor's insistence that he remains clothed in beauty.

What kind of people are these people?

The kind who would beat their children in the first place.

The kind who are very okay with that dungeon in the center of town.

***

It is a genetic imperative for us to love the mother. That is the thing we are detangling, every fact loosening the weave just enough to tease out yet another true thing. Our families of origin were and are ugly, toxic things. The depth and breadth of it is breathtaking. (Says allergy prone, asthmatic Cedar.)

Now I am questioning why I even emailed her.

Because Copa she no longer matters. You do. For now, for this minute, you are curious without the blinders of fear and position and all that crap buzzing around in the sister's aura.

In time, as you come to believe yourself and listen and hear and cherish and free yourself from that hypnotic enslavement, you will lose interest in her altogether. She never was who you believed her to be, Copa. Everything fine in her was only a reflection of you ~ and you gave that to her too and lived in the dark so she could have the light.

Fuek Yen! Roar the Chinese waitress Fueccky Yen and the chickens he rode in on!

:furious:


It's like D H says. It doesn't matter whether we do say it or whether we don't. What matters is that we know. They are on their freaking own. You have lived all of your life without a sister and most of your life without even the idea of one.

You are fine, Copa.

Here is a secret: You have zero fear of living alone. You have created your life a million times. That fear is a chimera. It has to do with FOO and where you think they think you should be thinking from.

Purchase your freedom, Copa. We both were sold so cheap, and for so cheap a reward, that we can easily, so easily, purchase our freedom. The trick then is remembering that, by our will, we are no longer enslaved.

Not to them, and not to anyone.

On that day, we will have reclaimed ourselves.

We are moving quickly, now.

Wind.

:919Mad:



:vacuumsm:


:choir:


:hugs:


:starplucker:



I do not have the confidence you do, Cedar, that I risked this. I hope so. Maybe someday I will go back and read the threads.

I think what you will find there Copa is not that you haven't the confidence, but that you had so little mercy for Copa. That is the emotional tone of your family of origin, Copa.

Horrifying, to think about that little girl and her bravery and her pain.

I was well held and well in check. So I was never afraid of what I would become that would make him leave me.

Yes Copa, I think this is exactly right for myself and my D H, too.

Change is ongoing.

I like it very much.

Yes. I think my work helped me along, too. I loved a lot in my work. And was loved back.

That happens to me, too. Not at first, but over time. I can never quite figure it out.

Maybe that is how it feels not to be hated.

I think that for me it was I could love my son...and he thrived...and loved me back. I think they call that a virtuous circle. It was safe to love him. I was safe. I made him OK. And then it didn't work anymore.

A virtuous circle.

I love that.

Not bad, for two little girls who grew up in dungeons at the center of town.

:O)

This was what my mother always said. She said my sister always felt inferior, that I had more (of everything except money and meanness, too), was stronger and had the better life.

Which is so weird because I was always vulnerable and Cinderella, and marginalized.

My mother said something like that, once. It had to do with my mother saying how funny was the jealousy between my sister and myself over my mother. And my mother said other words similar to those your mother used to describe your sister.

And I never could figure that one out. But even I was not born yesterday, so I took it with a grain of radioactive salt.

This is me, keeping my feet out of the bull****.:hangin:

:O)

Cedar
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
He spoke of driving with his family as a young child,
to a remote area to visit an old aunty they had not seen in quite sometime.
When she heard the car coming up the old dirt road,
she began to cry, and wail,
she was so happy to see them,
and sad
and also mad
that she hadn't seen them in such a long time.
So this, happy, sad, mad wailing in Hawaiian old aunty
went out to greet the carload of her ohana
and as she was wailing,
bent down to pick up...
rocks.
She started to hurl the rocks at them
and curse.
The rocks flew all around the car.

and as she was wailing,
bent down to pick up...
rocks.
She started to hurl the rocks at them
and curse.
The rocks flew all around the car.

Our cousin said he didn't know what to think
here he was a young child
going to see this aunty
and she was throwing rocks at them!

His parents waited patiently
until she calmed down,
and the shower of rocks ceased.
Getting out of the car,
they went to her,
and she hugged each of them with the biggest,
longest hugs,
laughing
and crying at the same time.
Scolding them for not coming sooner.

His parents waited patiently
until she calmed down,
and the shower of rocks ceased.
Getting out of the car,
they went to her,
and she hugged each of them with the biggest,
longest hugs,
laughing
and crying at the same time.
Scolding them for not coming sooner.
She fixed them a delicious meal.
And they ate and talked story
and sang songs.

Sometimes love is like that.


I love this story, Leafy. Thank you, thank you for posting for us.

I will tell it to my children and grands.

Oh, I love the family's patience in waiting for her to stop being angry; and I love the part where they don't mind about the rocks hitting the car, where we see the aunty's important value to her family.

And I love it that they cooked food and sang songs.

Yes. One day, I will go to Hawaii with my children and grands. That will be perfect dream to hold, and this story will help me with my own impatience, and with my own fears that I am not cherished.

This is my favorite story.

Cedar
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Oh, Cedar...you are cherished more than your know.

Stubborn adult Difficult Child often hold their tender thoughts inside, remember that. Goneboy surfaced after my accident. Don't want to put the story out here because of some FOOreaders, but will answer questions about it in private.

And all of us here cherish you dearly. You are beloved.
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Weeds in my yard, everywhere, weeds. Living in a 24-7 growing season, the battle with weeds is never ending.
The hubs likes to use round-up. I despise round-up. I know too much about round-up. It is a vile creation.

It is mans mad scientist answer to a quick solution to what has been deemed a problem. Controlling weeds.

In the natural order of things, weeds are essential, beneficial even. We pull weeds, to promote healthier plant growth. Did you know some weeds are actually medicinal?

We have weeds in our lives. The memories of our FOO, how we were treated, what happened to us as children. We would want to extinguish the history and memories, in thoughts of healing, and doing better for ourselves, our children.

Weeds.

Here, we "cold compost" weeds. Living on the side of a mountain, there is much watch care, lest the rains and shifts occurring, develop into mini slides, through time, we lose the edge. The edges of our steep mountain home, are important to protect. We do not have millions of dollars to build walls.

We use the weeds and fallen branches, and raked up leaves to fill in the "pukas"-holes, or areas in our hillside that are weakened by time and erosion. The area, eventually stabilizes, and the cold compost pile breaks down, till we work the land again and fill in the area. It is a cycle. So, I have come to appreciate the importance of the weeds.

Weeds.

What if we took those old memories, and threw them in our compost pile, to fill in our "pukas" ? What if we embraced them as beneficial to our being?

I look out into my yard and think, "What a lot of work I have to do, ugh, look at the weeds."
I should really be saying, "Wow, I have more material to fill my pukas."

So, what if I said, instead of "My growing up was misery."

"I survived and thrived to be who I am today?"

Like SWOT, in Embrace the Mat?

Weeds.

Darn weeds.

leafy
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Did you write this story, Leafy?

I am going to share it with everyone I know.

It is a perfect story.

I liked the mother chicken story, too.

I imagine you at the center, telling stories and there are stars out and wind.

Cedar
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Here, we "cold compost" weeds. Living on the side of a mountain, there is much watch care, lest the rains and shifts occurring, develop into mini slides, through time, we lose the edge. The edges of our steep mountain home, are important to protect. We do not have millions of dollars to build walls.

We use the weeds and fallen branches, and raked up leaves to fill in the "pukas"-holes, or areas in our hillside that are weakened by time and erosion. The area, eventually stabilizes, and the cold compost pile breaks down, till we work the land again and fill in the area. It is a cycle. So, I have come to appreciate the importance of the weeds.

Weeds.

What if we took those old memories, and threw them in our compost pile, to fill in our "pukas" ? What if we embraced them as beneficial to our being?

I look out into my yard and think, "What a lot of work I have to do, ugh, look at the weeds."
I should really be saying, "Wow, I have more material to fill my pukas."

So, what if I said, instead of "My growing up was misery."

"I survived and thrived to be who I am today?"

Yes, I see what you are telling us, Leafy. For me, the things you recognized were weeds, I have forever believed were roses soon to flower, or some beautifully mysterious tree, just coming into that time where its fruit will be borne.

But there were weeds Leafy, planted in my garden by those who may so easily have planted those roses or those fruiting trees I believed would grow in, in time.

Creating barren ground around them, even their roots toxic.

You are more gentle than me, Leafy.

That is why I value your counsel and your stories.

But for today, I am pulling those weeds that I recognize. They are acidic, Leafy. Biting and burning and making me cry and rage and throw rocks at the car that never comes down the dirt road.

Like poison ivy, the pulling of the weeds will leave a weeping rash.

But with your two stories today, with the story of the chics and the mother, and especially with the story of the Hawaiian auntie, I can know how to begin entertaining the idea of cold composting.

Cedar

How does that poem go:

http://www.bartleby.com/113/1118.html

 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
Why yes Cedar, I recalled it from my cousins true memory. He tells stories in giggles and hearty laughs. Stories are very important in Hawaiian culture, in the days of old, there was no written language. I have great respect for cultures with only oral history. To, me, it bespeaks of a tremendous capacity for memory.

The Hawaiians are gifted story tellers.

Their origins are of great importance to them, there is a resurgence of culture that young ones have been embracing wholeheartedly, bringing back the language and old traditional ways to the forefront. They are taught to recite their genealogy as far back as they can, in chant form. When my daughter graduated from her charter school, this was part of her ceremony, along with hula, and speeches, and feasting.

Hawaiians are a proud, indigenous people, who have a connection to all of their surroundings.
Ohana, family, is integral to their being. This is why it was so difficult for us to detach.

This is why in cousin in laws story, they did not turn tail and run from the old rock throwing aunty. It was a deserved scolding, they had been remiss in visiting her, in maintaining that connection.

My hubs cousin has a story of a Hawaiian funeral she attended as a young child. She is the matriarch of the family, and is in her mid 70's now, so she experienced first hand, many of the old ways.

In Hawaiian culture, death is an ending and also a beginning. Funerals here are solemn, then a celebration of life. You saw that in the Iz video, where thousands of people attended his service, his ashes were scattered in the waters he so loved, it was the only place he was freed from his immense weight. What a symbolization, huh.

He was carried in an urn on the Hokulea, the sailing canoe that is a living representation of Hawaiian culture, and the navigational prowess of the people. It was a great honor to Iz, a great man. Thousands of people lined the shore, hundreds and hundreds more, in boats, canoes, surfboards surrounded the Hokulea. A caravan of cars, motorcycle clubs, big huge trucks formed on the road adjacent to the beach. As Izs ashes were poured out into the water a great cry and shout arose from the crowds. The people threw flowers and lei, into the water and many dove in (as is tradition) for a last swim with Iz. The truckers, blew their horns in unison, a mighty sound, echoing through the land.
Iz had passed over to the realm.
It was a sad thing he had died so young, but he was finally free.

My cousins story of the funeral she attended was of her memory of the deceased's sister, arriving late in the service. The sisters had not seen or spoken to one another, due to a falling out, long before this passing.

Many family members had come to honor the life of their cherished ohana member.

In times of old, and modern, there is often an open casket. Hawaiians do not fear the deceased body. They move, slowly through a line, hug and kiss the family members who sit or stand near the casket, and say their goodbyes to their loved one, who is often draped with leis of all sorts, a gift from their loved ones. They will lean in to touch them, kiss their cheeks, hug them, with intense aloha.

Our cousin remembered this, the line, lasting forever.
When all of the people who came to give their last farewells had sat down, a hush fell over the assembly.

Suddenly, the doors flung open, as if by a strong wind, and slowly, walked in the sister, dressed gloriously in black. A piercing wail emitted from her, the building couldn't hold the sound, it wafted out of the windows.

The people all turned to look and were stilled, listening, focusing.
She moved, as in slow motion towards her sister, chanting her grief in flowing words of sorrow. The sorrow of loss at not seeing her, the pain of that, the indiscretion, joyful words of memories of times past, a vivid description, poetic, referring to flowers and sacred place names, waterfalls, rains and mountains, expressing her deep love for her sister.

My cousin could not remember all of what was chanted, but she said she will never forget the experience. A mournful sound, of a sisters grief, filling the building, echoing, echoing upwards, she fell upon her sisters body and sobbed until there were no more tears.
Then she left.

http://www.mauimuseum.org/chants.htm
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2001/May/09/il/il01a.html

These are not kanikau, but will give you a little glimpse of the power of chanting

And here, a little more learning about the culture.


Life, my sisters is short.

Striving for pono is important.

Love is all encompassing and powerful

Forgiveness is freeing.

leafy
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
These concepts are amazing, astonishing to me, Leafy.

More than you can know, thank you for taking this time to share them with us.

I loved the one about the wife mourning her husband. It was so beautiful and then, at the end, she says that if he can be returned she will pay one million dollars.

It was perfect.

She does not have one million dollars.

Or the one about eating watermelon in the fields.

Here is a paraphrase of something I read:

We carry around our lists of words, trying to understand.

The humanity remains, however.

I am so happy about these things you are teaching us, Leafy. About these new ways of seeing.

Thank you.

Cedar

It is the power in the voice, too. In Judism and Islam, there is the power of the male voice. In Native hearts, the language of the drum. Did you know the jingle dress is worn to attract the gods' attention?

How much more perfect were those obituaries, with the humanity in the grief of living on.

***

A person could come alive again, with these ways of knowing, Leafy.

:O)
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member

Ahhhh, poetry, thank you Cedar, I scrolled a bit further, and here is what struck me.
The last reminded me of your happy hour tradition



REMEMBRANCE has a rear and front,—
’T is something like a house;
It has a garret also
For refuse and the mouse,

Besides, the deepest cellar 5
That ever mason hewed;
Look to it, by its fathoms
Ourselves be not pursued.

TO hang our head ostensibly,
And subsequent to find
That such was not the posture
Of our immortal mind,

Affords the sly presumption 5
That, in so dense a fuzz,
You, too, take cobweb attitudes
Upon a plane of gauze!

THE BRAIN is wider than the sky,
For, put them side by side,
The one the other will include
With ease, and you beside.

The brain is deeper than the sea, 5
For, hold them, blue to blue,
The one the other will absorb,
As sponges, buckets do.

The brain is just the weight of God,
For, lift them, pound for pound, 10
And they will differ, if they do,
As syllable from sound.

TO help our bleaker parts
Salubrious hours are given,
Which if they do not fit for earth
Drill silently for heaven.


Happy Sigh
:mornincoffee:

leafy
 

New Leaf

Well-Known Member
These concepts are amazing, astonishing to me, Leafy.

More than you can know, thank you for taking this time to share them with us.
Why Cedar, it is my pleasure. I am most thankful for your wisdom and knowledge. I have learned much from my sisters.
The words written from our posts,
encircle our minds and hearts
an exchange of blossoms
tender thoughts
memories
sadness
hope
laughter
woven,
our lei of flowers.

Homepage4.jpg


We gift
one another.

We carry around our lists of words, trying to understand.

The humanity remains, however.
I love this. Thank you Cedar.

I am so happy about these things you are teaching us, Leafy. About these new ways of seeing.
They are from the beauty of my husbands culture.
Isn't it breathtaking?
I am so glad you think so.
Thank you for appreciating their value.
I just knew you would.

It is the power in the voice, too. In Judism and Islam, there is the power of the male voice. In Native hearts, the language of the drum. Did you know the jingle dress is worn to attract the gods' attention?

How much more perfect were those obituaries, with the humanity in the grief of living on.
Yes, so very expressive, and different.
I attend the powwow here most every year. I am drawn to indigenous people, from a very young age. I read "Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee" at 16, and was very disturbed of the mistreatment of Native Americans. That is another story.

A person could come alive again, with these ways of knowing, Leafy.
This is true, Cedar. This knowledge is very spiritual and powerful, to understand our connection to everything, and its connection to us.

Thank you Cedar, so very much, for understanding.

leafy
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I thought he'd developed an interest in glass blowing and was using the glass pipe to smoke grass.
Oh, Cedar.
They are used to smoke meth, Copa.

Meth!
, I just googled ice pipe on google images to see if I have seen such a thing in my own house. I do not think so.

Cedar, at what point did you realize he had used meth? At what age was he?

Remember, for a very short time I used a form of meth too. Bennies they were called. But I would still stay up for days and sleep for days. As far as you know has he stopped or not?
there is nothing a mother whose intentions were good could have done that a grown man, whose mother's intentions are still good, cannot have recovered from
Yes. It is this seeming intention to stay put. Except not totally. If my son wanted to stay put he would have continued here in my town.
The sister's children will have been raised to bask in the mother's favor at your humiliation, Copa.
Yes. Except I believe that they are taught that they are more special, in general, at the expense of others, not just me.
The sisters lie, Copa.
Yes. I saw that. I would not have believed it. But I saw it. They united with their mother, against their grandmother and me.
Refuse to be humiliated.
I will. It has been hard because my son tries to reach out to them, and I am sure he presents his woe as me, humiliated self. Where did he learn this? This only came to the fore after we learned of his illness, when it worsened.
the sister's children performing on cue to cut you with a thousand invisible knives that leave you bleeding but not sure why
Do you really believe she taught them this, specifically using my name?

Why is it that her daughter chose to go to the exact same college(s) as I, one in Rio, and chose to go for her semester abroad, of all the possible cities in the world, to Rio? Was this a form of competing or of taking over my story? Did the mother have a role in it?

My sister has always said this daughter looks like me. I do not much see it. I hate the way she prances everywhere with in short, shorts (like just covering her behind and crotch) even to the hospital. She has good legs, that is true. I did too. There is something off here.
We are the fox, carrying the scorpion across the river for no other reason than that they asked us to do so.
Yes. I did not carry her physically but psychically I did.
Everything fine in her was only a reflection of you ~ and you gave that to her too and lived in the dark so she could have the light.
Yes. How sad.
Here is a secret: You have zero fear of living alone. You have created your life a million times.
Yes. This is true. Zero fear. I have done it maybe not a million, but a thousand.

I am a little bit better with my back, maybe 50 percent. I can get up and sit down without screaming. I became so afraid that my body is so shot that this will be ongoing. My neck hurts too. That is more chronic. And I get migraines when my neck is bad.

I so want to get my body back in shape. Whatever it takes: Yoga, Biofeedback, Pilates, Tai Chai. Massage. Walking and Dancing and Swimming, if I can. I have so let myself go and fear I cannot get my physical well-being back.

Thank you for responding, everybody.

COPA
 
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