Can I Quit Now ?

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by DaisyFace, May 16, 2011.

  1. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Do I really have to finish out the two years that are left on my "sentence" until my difficult child turns 18?

    Had a long meeting with MST worker, Ms Ally, today...

    and basically, she told husband and I that we have to "fight" more and try harder to bring difficult child around.

    We told her we are TIRED of fighting...and it would be easier to keep fighting and trying if difficult child herself were even the slightest bit invested (or even interested) in improving her life at all.

    She has given us the assignment of creating a "behavior contract" with difficult child. (Yes, feel free to roll eyes...) We are supposed to write out all of our expectations and all of the consequences for not fulfilling those expectations. She wants us to be very specific and put down each and every little thing - no yelling, no door slamming, no stomping around - and list a consequence for each and every little thing.

    And then, we are supposed to have difficult child sign it.

    And then, I am supposed to enforce this monstrosity of a contract by calling difficult child on each and every little thing and imposing the consequences that have been laid out.

    Ms Ally is very excited about this plan...

    and she wants husband and I to get excited, too.


    No way.

    Can I quit now?
  2. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Only if I can too, hon.

    This is supposed to help how???
  3. wintak

    wintak New Member

    HEY NOW...if you all quit, then I'm quitting, too. Seems only fair :)

    I'm sorry to hear about this. At her age, haven't behaviour contracts been tried before? My difficult child is only 8 and we've tried 2 or 3 times, only to have it fail because lack of caring on difficult child's part. I don't envy's a killer.

    Can you and husband simply say...NO, we're not trying that? Isn't therapy more of a 'suggestion' of things to try?
  4. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Well, I think Ms Ally is currently working on the theory that husband and I have been too permissive and letting difficult child get away with doing whatever she wants. That we have, in effect, created a difficult child...
  5. wintak

    wintak New Member

    Can you give Ms Ally the "w" sign and say "whatever" to her? LOL...ya know, like the kids do sometimes?
  6. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip


    Being permissive might have contributed - or might not have!

    She's a difficult child. You didn't MAKE her a difficult child. Not with what I know about you!

  7. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    I think perhaps you could help educate this lady by explaining to her why her bright optimism about what will work is perhaps misfounded... Seriously, it sounds like she doesn't understand and you have to help her understand.
  8. P-nut2004

    P-nut2004 New Member

    I try to quit on a regular basis LoL I will proclaim "I quit" or "I'm on strike" and I'll wait a while to see if husband picks up the slack but he just tells me I can't quit because he can't afford to replace me. No one in their right mind (this is the key lol) would work full time and be on call 24hrs a day taking care of 3 kids, one of whom is psycho and a constant handful, with only room & board as pay. So I guess that actually makes us indentured servants who will earn our freedom when the last kid turns 18 *sigh* that's 11 more years for me.

    As for behavior contracts & the dreaded behavior charts, my difficult child 'L' is only 7 so we're on a different level but some of her behaviors are the same. She has a goal chart with 5 goals a day, she gets a star for each goal she makes and each star is worth a quarter which if she behaved perfectly would be about $9 a week. She is really enjoying earning money which husband & I agreed we can't be too fussy about how she spends it or it'll ruin the plan The older two are difficult child-ish but have really taken to this plan fairly well, they want their spending money so most days they do their chores with little fuss, although they have both lost money for forgetting homework or copping an attitude. I sat down with both of them and let them help make their 'rules' to abide by and then we posted them along with a chore schedule. They start off with $10 a week and lose money if they don't do their chores or if they break the agreed upon rules. So far this has worked better than anything else we've tried but neither of them are ODD just ADHD with tween attitudes & mood swings. Bottom line here is that everything we tried before was about laying out consequences and punishments but turning it around and making it about rewarding them for NOT doing these things is working.

    Clearly your difficult child is older and therefor causing more serious issues but maybe some version of this would work? If she is so concerned about having possessions & shopping etc maybe refusing to buy or pay for anything but allowing her to earn the money to pay her own way would help some. It may not always get her to do the dishes but maybe she would be of some help when she really wants money for something? Just an idea, I know it sounds like bribery to pay her to behave but it may teach her some responsibility if having her own money motivates her.

    ((HUGS)) Look at it this way, atleast you only have two years left LoL Im dreading L at that age, it's all I can do to keep her under control as a 40lb 7yr old.
  9. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Wait! Maybe I did! Quick - call CPS!

    I should probably lose custody for this...
  10. Last ♡ Hope

    Last ♡ Hope New Member

    I have wanted to quit almost every. single. day. for years now. And difficult child is only six. He just publicly beat me (savagely) with a (thankfully) plastic baseball bat (still hurts!), bit my right arm, clamped down and wouldn't let go (left marks), and kicked my right cheek/jaw with shoes on in the throes of a rage. I can't believe I have 12 more years of this. :(
  11. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I didn't post to your last thread about Ms Ally and MST because I didn't want to burst your bubble and I was really hoping that maybe your MST worker did have more insight and pull and real-life expectations....but....MST is a behavior contract. It is specifically for conduct disorder and does work under the premise that with better rewards/consequences, the parents would be able to make the child mind. been there done that. In my case, I wasn't willing to send difficult child the message that if I'd just parent him "better" he'd have no reason to become violent with me or break the law. I figured since I hadn't been abusive or neglectful, nothing I was doing at home justified it and I couldn't buy into it. Plus, you have to rid your family of any other therapy you are trying- for BiPolar (BP) or anything else. Bah Humbug. And no, I agree, nothing will work when the kid doesn't care.
  12. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    Can you list all of the expectations and make the punishment for not meeting the expectations that you drop her off at Ms. Ally's?
  13. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I'm interested in knowing what Ms Ally's ideas are for appropritae punishment- especially when it gets to the point of difficult child becoming explosive. Our MST worker said to call cops- which is what I had done in the past. So what exactly was MST worker bringing to the table as far as new ideas?
  14. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Yes, Wintak--

    Behavior Charts and contracts have been tried ad nauseum...The suggestion has become almost a joke.

    I'm not sure whether MST is just a suggestion - I don't want to be reported to the state and county as a "Non-cooperative parent"
  15. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not


    I don't even know what I'd say...


    So far, we have not found difficult child's "currency"...nothing is as valuable to her as doing whatever she wants to do whenever she wants to do it.


    I'm so sorry. Hopefully, you will luck out and get help sooner rather than later...
  16. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Well, that's what's so frustrating...

    She's telling us that WE need to figure out what appropriate consequences are based on what we know about our daughter.

    Well, great. What we know for sure is that difficult child does not give a rat's patootie about anybody but herself. So, what "reward" is going to be big enough or consequence is going to be bad enough to get her to stop what she wants to do when she wants to do it?

    And you're right....I was SOOOO hopeful. And now I am feeling a bit let down...

    husband and I are going to think about what we want to do...
  17. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not




  18. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    JJJ's suggestion was mine as well.
    The consequence will be dropping her off at Ms Ally's for the weekend...............GRRRR.

    I have lost track of all the details, but how did the social workers get involved? Can they go away? Can she go into an Residential Treatment Center (RTC)?
  19. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Well, at least you can say you gave it a try. Our MST worker asked difficult child what he'd like or what did he wish was different about my parenting. difficult child thought for a while and said "well, it would be nice if she cooked things I really like more often for dinner". Now I didn't hold that aginst difficult child- he was 12yo and trying to come up with some answer and didn't say this like he was complaining. However, the behavior contract we were headed toward was that difficult child wouldn't break the law anymore if I'd cook what he wanted for dinner more often. Pfftt. That's the last day I was willing to meet with the guy- oh- he also showed up that visit saying he'd saved us some time by "going ahead and listing out our goals for us". Excuse me? Since when does the therapist decide what my and my son's goals are?

    I heard the "uncooperative parent", too. Turn that into "no, we tried but didn't see this going anywhere that could help our family- we asked ABC and didn't get an answer that we hadn't already tried".
  20. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Sadly I think that if you want Residential Treatment Center (RTC) or anything else from these people you are going to have to continue to jump through their hoops. Each person will want to start over at the beginning with things that haven't ever worked with a difficult child. NOT with difficult children as WE understand them. Sadly these people come across a LOT of parents who truly have created difficult children out of perfectly ordinary happy to please pcs. Heck, I spent my teens and twenties watching my uncle's wife (exwife after the daughter was 12) turn their daughter into a difficult child. She went a LOT farther than just letting the kid do what she wanted. Taught the girl that dad was just an ATM (literally told her this) and forced her to date "bad boys" from the worst areas of Cincy - and they lived in a NICE area and cousin went to private religious schools and was liked by NICE boys. Those were not good enough - by nine and ten the mom was insisting that my cousin be out until midnight or later on weekends. And it just got worse.

    I have come to realize that a LOT of parents just do not want to be anything but friends with their kids so they don't set limits. Then the kid clues in that the parent won't ever follow through and a difficult child is created. THIS is what Ms. Ally et al think you have at home. They see you now, tiptoeing around on eggshells simply because you do not want to fight about everything with a girl who was NEVER willing to do ANYTHING that you wanted and they think it is "your fault".

    WE know you are dealing with a different beast. They are using horse training methods on a zebra. Simply does NOT work because the zebra doesn't care and the horse does.

    IF you want Ms Ally to work with you then you are going to HAVE to do some of these stupid things that you have done so many times before. Why not go pull out copies of some of the past behavior contracts and just make copies of them to reuse? Then later you can show Ms. Ally that it did not work any of the ten or thirty times you have tried it with a different counselor who swore it would work this time because you would be doing it her way.

    Can you tell I have gone through this too? We finally had one therapist who understood in the first two months that Wiz was NOT a typical bad behaving easy child. She sat and told the that with most kids she would try this chart, that contract, this game, that token economy, etc.... and she could SEE that it was NOT going to work with him. SO where could we figure out together that we might go as a direction to help the situation. I truly wish I could bottle her and send her to each and every parent here. She was incredible for us. Wiz hated her, of course, because she did NOT buy his lies or accept his bs.

    If you think Ms Ally can help, give her a short trial of this so she thinks you are cooperating. Just keep copies of everything in your files so that when you have another person working with you then you can either re-use the contract or else show you have done it.

    I am quite sure that each person will want you to do this again in their own way. You will hear that it didn't work because it was "too detailed", complicated, nitpicky, broad, not enough goals, too many goals, not enough consequences, too many consequences, too strict, too lenient, not detailed enough, gave her too much wiggle room, didn't give her enough wiggle room, ad nauseum. Part of what got Wiz into the long term Residential Treatment Center (RTC) was being able to tell the people all the different ways we tried that, and how his response to each one was violence. Plus he tried to kill Jess, and I saw him, so that gave us more weight. Maybe if she tried to kill someone they would help more? problem not - right now I think they would want to put it in a behavior contract.

    Whatever happens, why not call the cops over and over? Yeah, it is a hassle but sooner or later they will get tired of it and will take her in front of a judge. Then you can tell the judge how you have tried, begged, pleaded, done everything under the sun to get help and all people see is this pretty little female who looks so sweet. How violent does she get with you all when she is angry? If nothing else, figure out what will make her the most angry that looks sweet and reasonable and use that in front of either Ms. Ally or when you eventually get in front of a judge.

    As for wanting to quit, yes. You can. But no one iwll do anything to help the family if you do. If difficult child gets violent when she is forced to do certain things, then make it happen, call the cops each time, and insist they take her with them, that you are done. The judge iwll hem and haw around and not do anything for several court dates because he will be waiting to see if you will back down. IF youstick to it and insist that it is unsafe to have her at home, eventually he will get her placed somewhere. CPS will be involved to see if your son is safe. make sure you have a written safety plan for keeping everyone safe when difficult child rages (esp keeping easy child safe - they will want to say you are not protecting him so they take him and send her home. beat them before they start by having the written safety plan and having it posted on the wall in a couple of places).

    I am so sorry. I wish there was something more that you could do. Instead you are going to ahve to wait for her to be 18, to run away, or to violate enough laws that they put her in juvie - I doubt the courts will order Residential Treatment Center (RTC) unless you live where TimerLady lives.