Did I overstep?

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by WiseChoices, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    Son (23) had first therapy appointment today. I know the therapist, have seen her before myself, and she can be firm. I am very sensitive. When son comes out, he says she will put him on anti anxiety medications . So I had to say "I don't want highly addictive substances in my home". He immediately gets an attitude which scares me because in the past, he has been cruel to me and I get scared by male anger. I start to get a dry throat, fear all in my chest. So he says "let's go back up and talk to therapist about this ". I felt like it was a bad idea based on what I know about her, but o was all in fear and didn't think properly. In retrospect, I could have waited until he had the prescription because therapist referred him to psychiatrist and it takes a while to get an appointment with psychiatric.

    We go back up and startle therapist a little as she did not expect us back, and I say "Son says you recomended anti aniety medications and we do not allow them in our home". She says " I don't understand. I referred to psychiatrist. They know what to do.". I state that anti anxiety medications are highly addictive and so we don't want them in our house. She then said there were SSIs that also treat anxiety. And I said ok.

    But I felt shame after like I had overstepped. Did I?
  2. pasajes4

    pasajes4 Well-Known Member

    You have a right to express your opinion. You also have a right to not allow certian things in YOUR home.
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  3. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    No. I WISH I had done that years ago.

    I probably could have saved our family a lot of ANGUISH.

    My friend is on Citalopram 20 mg and she said it really helps her a lot. Not addictive. It's an SSRI

    Do NOT let your son get anything in the benzodiazepine family. It will bring out evil.
  4. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    Thank you so much for your support! I am breathing fully after your confirmation that I did ok. I am always so worried about doing it wrong and being controlling (one of my worst defects). My daughter was on Klonopin, Xanax, and Ativan. She threatened suicide and said she would do it with the benzos . I am terrified of that stuff. So, sticking to my guns. Not in my house. I did some research today and it's basically all class 2 controlled substances that I will disallow . Makes it easy to remember. Ritalin and Adderal are on that list along with the benzos, and the opiates.
  5. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    Thank you for that! It helps me to feel empowered. I am a little scared of that therapist as she can be very firm and blunt. It's that fear of authority I have as an adult child of an alcoholic. She gave me that look that said I am butting into my son's business , but you are right : I have a right to voice my opinion and call the shots on what happens in my home. And the therapist has the right to judge me for that if she so choses, and to have whatever opinion of me that she wants. In retrospect, I was brave. I did it despite being scared to and that is called courage. Good for me!
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  6. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    in your house you can ban anything you want to ban.

    I used to hate when Kay smoked in my clean house, and asked her not to but she did it anyway. I was too weak to be firm. So was my husband. We are stronger now. It has been just recently!

    If you don't want cigarettes, pot, or benzos under your roof, I think its absolutely fine to refuse it. Yes, we allowed pot too. We were pathetic, contributing to Kay's bullying of us. I admire you for putting up this boundary. Good for you!
  7. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    Thank you so much, Busy. It means a lot!
  8. B’smom

    B’smom Member

    Your home and your rules! It’s so important to speak up when we’re uncomfortable with something, to question the decision and sometimes- not budge when we made a decision.

    When my son was in his first residential treatment, I argued with the psychologist over Pokémon cards for seven weeks. (I know it’s not the same as medication). The centre gave them to him anyways as rewards and I was adamant that he not get them (he gets obsessive then gets physical over them- suspended from school for hitting a teacher who wouldn’t look at them). They caused issues at the centre as well. Shocking

    When he returned home, I donated them all. The second residential treatment centre told me they never should have disrespected my rules like that. “My house, my child, my rules”. Doesn’t matter if he’s 12 or 23, it’s your home and you make the rules. Don’t let some therapist tried to bully you into something you are not comfortable with.

    I know I don’t know you, but i wanted you to know that I’m proud of you for standing your ground. It’s definitely easier said than done.

    Also yay that your son is seeking support for his own mental health. It’s a great step.
  9. JayPee

    JayPee Sending good vibes...

    I think you did the right thing and I applaud you for having the courage to do so.

    My younger son was on Vyvanse and was off the charts crazy. There were many episodes but one in particular when he thought people were talking in Morse code over his car radio.

    I’m not saying he’s perfect by a long shot he took himself off of medications and now is back to alcohol and pot to numb himself.
  10. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    Thank you for your response and helping me feel good about my actions . I tend to second guess myself after I take action. So many here have spoken of the nightmare prescription drugs unleashed in their families, so I now know that I did the right thing.
  11. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I am sorry I am only seeing this thread so late in the game, but I am seeing it when I most need it.

    I admire what you did. I think you showed courage, resolve and excellent boundaries. I think I know what you felt, that paralyzing fear, the second-guessing and then the shame. I am dealing with a version of it, now. Beginning this post I did not recognize what was happening to me, but now, because of your sharing, I do.

    My son behaved badly in my bank where I have gone a couple of times a week for many years. I am friendly and open with several woman there, like friends. I could see that they were afraid of him. And he acted towards me in front of them with hostility and disrespect.

    I did not react but I can see now that my shame and sense of exposure afterwards are very like what happened to you. I feel like I just want to die. I want to crawl in a hole and never see the light of day. I don't want to ever go back to the bank.

    I see that I took on responsibility for my son's behavior, as my own, and I see that that is regressive, but I cannot so far, work my way out of it. I felt (and feel) responsible for what he did. It became my offense. When it is not.

    To me the principle issue in your encounter is NOT the drugs, although you were completely correct to clarify and to set a boundary. To me, the central dynamic here is voice and presence. You acted in the moment to protect yourself and your home. It as if you broke open a vial of poison inside of you so that it could drain out. Of course we feel toxic when we do this. But how else do we heal and purify ourselves of our past?

    I don't know what could have been a comparable, strong action on my part in the bank. I had asked my son to not go in the bank. In both aggressive incidents he came up behind me. I did not see him. I could have said out loud in front of everybody, I apologize for my son's bad behavior, but I didn't. I thought the best thing to do was to leave. And then it happened a second time.

    I feel horrible. I am carrying the bad behavior. The stigma. And I don't know how to rid myself of it. I feel just horrible.

    I think I was afraid that somebody would hit the panic button, that the police would come, and that my son could be killed, by accident. Isn't that a shame, that all of that violence, that potential for disaster is within me? I am beginning to feel compassion for myself, now. Thank you.

    I am sorry to hijack your thread, but wanted to acknowledge how brave and strong you are. I don't feel very brave or strong, and don't know how to fix myself.
  12. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    Copa, please don't feel his shame. Clearly he is an adult who still does not care about how his behavior may hurt you. Kay was like this when we used to sometimes bring her places, especially to our company. I can't even verbalize the shame my husband and I both felt that the owners child swore, cussed and used loud and sexually inappropriate language to us and our workers.

    We once had to call the police to make her leave and many probably never forgot it. Needless to say, our attempt to get her involved in our company was a major fail with much embarrassing fallout.

    Since that time Kay has never gone with us in public except out to eat where she often acts out. But we don't have to visit the same restaurant twice.

    Your son.is obviously not mature enough or well behaved enough to respect your wishes, or to be out in public with you, except maybe to eat for the same reasons we have. Maybe just never take him with you. He didn't earn that privilege. Some adults never learn to be proper adults. i don't see Kay maturing any time soon. To be honest, Amy's children behave appropriately in public and they are so young, yet Kay likes to talk loudly and inappropriately to cause scenes. I believe Kay does it on purpose to shame us. It works.

    Please do not take on your son's deeds and maybe try not to have him with you at important places. Kay no longer even knows our bank.

    God bless you.
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  13. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    Copa, I like when threads develop intro deeper discussions. Shame is such a pervasive, deep-rooted issue. It felt good to read that you could relate to what I was feeling. Shame, of course, says we are not good enough, bad to the core, unfixable. And shame, therefore, is a lie. We are all good enough, we are God's children, born in love and loved by our Higher Power .

    When I feel shame, I have to remind myself that it's a very old trigger that is not correct about me .

    The behavior of other people is not our responsibility or fault. You did nothing wrong in the bank .And you don't have to apologise for your son's behavior because it is his responsibility and his alone .

    The people at the bank, and everywhere, will have opinions about others .We can't help that. We are powerless over that. And the opinion of others is none of my business.

    Please don't hide yourself and let shame win .Adjust your crown, connect to the power that flows inside of you given to you by your Higher Power, and go right back to that bank and conduct your business there.Do not allow shame to make you feel small. It's a lie . I would not even bring up the incident with your son. At all. If one of the ladies you are friendly with says anything to you about it, you have choices in how to respond. Like stating he had a bad day with his mental health, or saying you would rather not talk about it, or being honest and saying you felt embarrassed and were wondering if you could show your face there again (with a smile and half laughing) - you know either not addressing it all or being more light hearted about it. I am sure there are hundreds of other choices and they are there for you to draw upon

    I found a wonderful talk and meditation on YouTube by a Buddhist monk that helped be dissolve guilt . I will post it underneath for anyone interested in exploring it .
  14. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

  15. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    So, sticking to my guns. Not in my house. I did some research today and it's basically all class 2 controlled substances that I will disallow . Makes it easy to remember. Ritalin and Adderal are on that list along with the benzos, and the opiates.[/QUOTE]

    Ritalin, Adderal, and Opiates, with the exception of Tyelenol 3 and Tramadol, are NOT in the same class as the two latter and benzodiazapines.

    They are actually much more tightly controlled.

    Benzos are fine for short term anxiety while while waiting for a SSRI to kick in, but should not be given for more than two weeks, with the exception of Xanax, which should not be given at all.

    Perhaps, if benzos are prescribed for that purpose, you could dole out the pills during the interim?

    There are also old fashioned blood pressure medications (clonidine and beta blockers) that help with anxiety, and hydroxazine, (Vistaril/Atarax), which is an old fashioned antihistamine--great for itchiness, but also sedating and an anxiolytic as well.
  16. JayPee

    JayPee Sending good vibes...


    I can completely relate to your embarrassment and shame. As mentioned you can explain away or not to your bank friends. In my opinion I would just work on resolving this discomfort within yourself.

    I would try to remember that perhaps some or one of these individuals has experienced a similar situation as you. Maybe not exactly but we tend to think those around us even the ones we interact daily, have perfect lives. Then we walk into an Al anon meeting, for instance and see reflections of ourselves and how many others are walking around with stories similar to ours.

    I suspect your bank friends are not judging you for your sons bad behavior but rather are sympathetic to you or can relate.

    If anything you will likely get a response that someone’s brother, son etc has behaved like this so they feel your pain.
  17. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am sorry that your son treats you like that. Going back to the therapist was a great idea. Esp if you are the one paying for her services. It is HARD to get over that immediate fear response, esp for us adult kids of alcoholics. Or adult grandkids. You have EVERY right to insist on no addictive medications. EVERY RIGHT. Don't back down if a psychiatrist tells you that benzos, etc... are okay. They are, for short term use if you do not have an addictive personality AND are known not to use opiates. Otherwise? They are NOT SAFE.

    Insist on what is right for your home, and your safety regardless of what these people say. Doctors/therapists are experts in their field of study. They are NOT experts in our kids. WE are the experts in our kids - we spent their entire lives with them where the doctor/therapist sees them for a few minutes a week/month/year. Don't ever let them bully you into feeling like you don't know your kid!
  18. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    Thank you SO MUCH for this . It soothed my soul! It made me feel empowered.
  19. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Therapists aren't God. There are good ones and bad ones. We have seen our fair share of both. One of the worst was a psychiatric doctor that gave my daughter Ambien samples behind my back (she was only 17 at the time). He was supposed to be an expert in addiction. She took them at work and drove home. When she got home, she told me that she "thought" she had hit something on the way home. I went out and looked and there were scratches and dents all along one side of the car. She couldn't even remember what she hit.

    I called the doctor the next day and was furious that he gave her Ambien. His reply was, "I didn't think she would take them and drive." Really? An expert in addiction wouldn't know that an addict would take the drugs irresponsibly?

    You have every right to set boundaries in your own home and the therapist should respect that. Benzos were my daughter's drug of choice. I won't even let a doctor give them to me. I don't want to be anywhere near them.

    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
  20. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    And I am so glad I set that boundary and walked through my fear!!!!

    Son had his psychiatrist appointment today, and after describing his anxiety , was told he should be on Ativan. And because I had told him no class 2,3 or 4 controlled substances in my home, he said that he could not take that. He was put on Wellbutrin which is an SSI that also helps with anxiety.

    What kills me about these doctors is that they don't ask any pertinent life style questions. Both of my kids drink buckets full of coffee every day. If someone told me they had anxiety, I would ask about stimulant consumption, lifestyle choices .I have anxiety and I use breathing exercises , meditation, yoga, and positive self talk to deal with it. My kids don't want to try any of those things and dont want to give up coffee, either, so the solution is a pill.

    The anxiety my kids describe seems fairly normal to me for their young adult experiences . Anxiety before a job interview that is for a position a little but above the skill level , walking into class 10 minutes late the first day etc . It is normal to feel anxiety in those situations. Rather than learning how to deal with those feelings, they would rather just pop a pill and make it go away .

    I am soooo glad I stuck to my guns and my son has no controlled substances in our home . As it is things are stressful for me with their narcissistic tendencies.