standswithcourage
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Thanks!
difficult child never changes......
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Susan,
Suz gave you a terrific list of things to do. Ways to stand strong. Witz is right about the word no. We females grew up with the idea we were supposed to pacify people. I am willing to bet money that there is an alcoholic or other mentally ill person in your family in your parents or grandparents generation. The behavior is genetic.
Strengthen YOU. Worry about why you are so dependent on this man's happiness instead of focusing on living YOUR life. Make your therapist SEE taht you want help getting away from the traps you fall into.
Embroider the sentence "NO is a complete sentence" on handkerchiefs, shirts, towels, whatever it takes to have it handy to remember when you run into him.
For so long, over a DECADE, you have always given in when he came to you with pitiful stories about where he "had" to live, what he "had" to do, how he "hurt" and needed "medication". Just like with a dog who has a nasty habit, you must be STRONG. Every time you turn him away and refuse to argue or engage, YOU WIN. Every time you say more than NO. And walk away, he wins. The goal is not to be mean. The goal is to save yourself from letting him ruin your life as well as his own.
You must do the NO and turn him away dozens of times, maybe even a hundred times before he will learn. Because YOU trained him to keep begging and pestering you by giving in to him after he begged and pestered you enough.
Do you want to be the sad sack everyone talks about "Stands who let her druggie son drive her and her poor husband to ruin. They lost the house because they couldn't stop helping him and all he did was cash in their help for drug money." That is where saying more than NO is going to lead you.
Remember Nancy Reagan..
Just. Say. No.
Nothing more is needed. Just because he argues does not mean YOU have to. And he can't have an argument without you arguing back.
Save yourself!! Have enough sense to hop in the lifeboat!! Just say NO!
Suz gave you a terrific list of things to do. Ways to stand strong. Witz is right about the word no. We females grew up with the idea we were supposed to pacify people. I am willing to bet money that there is an alcoholic or other mentally ill person in your family in your parents or grandparents generation. The behavior is genetic.
Strengthen YOU. Worry about why you are so dependent on this man's happiness instead of focusing on living YOUR life. Make your therapist SEE taht you want help getting away from the traps you fall into.
Embroider the sentence "NO is a complete sentence" on handkerchiefs, shirts, towels, whatever it takes to have it handy to remember when you run into him.
For so long, over a DECADE, you have always given in when he came to you with pitiful stories about where he "had" to live, what he "had" to do, how he "hurt" and needed "medication". Just like with a dog who has a nasty habit, you must be STRONG. Every time you turn him away and refuse to argue or engage, YOU WIN. Every time you say more than NO. And walk away, he wins. The goal is not to be mean. The goal is to save yourself from letting him ruin your life as well as his own.
You must do the NO and turn him away dozens of times, maybe even a hundred times before he will learn. Because YOU trained him to keep begging and pestering you by giving in to him after he begged and pestered you enough.
Do you want to be the sad sack everyone talks about "Stands who let her druggie son drive her and her poor husband to ruin. They lost the house because they couldn't stop helping him and all he did was cash in their help for drug money." That is where saying more than NO is going to lead you.
Remember Nancy Reagan..
Just. Say. No.
Nothing more is needed. Just because he argues does not mean YOU have to. And he can't have an argument without you arguing back.
Save yourself!! Have enough sense to hop in the lifeboat!! Just say NO!
standswithcourage
New Member
I remember that Just. Say. No. ok I will and I will not call the police on them like somebody told me - my husband said no also!
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Susan, I would find a new therapist that insists on focusing on you. I think it's pointless to go to somebody who is trying to give you therapy to give to your son. It's not helpful in my opinion. There has to be a better therapist. The sessions are supposed to be about you. A good therapist in my opinion wouldn't allow you to obsess about difficult child. She or he would allow you to vent then say, "So what are YOU going to do with YOUR life?" Trust me, this comes from someone who has been forced to go to about twenty therapists because of my mood disorder! 
Even when I didn't want to see a therapist, I had to or I couldn't get my medications. I learned the good ones from the bad ones. The good ones make me feel better and the bad ones make me cry and feel like garbage and blame everyone else but me for my "crummy" life (which isn't crummy at all). I learned to dump the latter ones.
For your sake and everyone else's, I would get together with the others and decide to change your phone numbers and unlist them. He doesn't need to be calling you at his sister's house on her birthday. Did he even wish her happy birthday? Did he care about her? Probably not, because all he cares about are his drugs. He shouldn't bother your easy child son either. easy child shouldn't have to deal with his craziness. YOU should only let him have one phone number for emergencies--maybe he can have to ask for husband and talk to him first. husband can decide if it's an emergency. The less contact you have with him, the more you will be able to detach. Trust me on this one. Also I'd set strict boundaries about what he is allowed to talk to you about. I would make these things off limits: Drugs period, his need to see doctors and dentists and money. And hang up fast if he starts. I doubt you'll be hearing from him much if you are firm.
I would tell him he's not welcome in your house and I'd stick to it. There is no reason for him to be there. He isn't nice to you. He could steal when he's there. He is disruptive to everyone else. He has a place to stay. You may not like it, but he's well into his 20's and you have to say so over where he resides. But you DO have a say so in if he can go to your home or not. I don't care if he throws a baby's tantrum. Making it harder for him will push him toward thinking about his lifestyle. If he truly doesn't believe he could die from his lifestyle, he is pretty far gone.
Even when I didn't want to see a therapist, I had to or I couldn't get my medications. I learned the good ones from the bad ones. The good ones make me feel better and the bad ones make me cry and feel like garbage and blame everyone else but me for my "crummy" life (which isn't crummy at all). I learned to dump the latter ones.For your sake and everyone else's, I would get together with the others and decide to change your phone numbers and unlist them. He doesn't need to be calling you at his sister's house on her birthday. Did he even wish her happy birthday? Did he care about her? Probably not, because all he cares about are his drugs. He shouldn't bother your easy child son either. easy child shouldn't have to deal with his craziness. YOU should only let him have one phone number for emergencies--maybe he can have to ask for husband and talk to him first. husband can decide if it's an emergency. The less contact you have with him, the more you will be able to detach. Trust me on this one. Also I'd set strict boundaries about what he is allowed to talk to you about. I would make these things off limits: Drugs period, his need to see doctors and dentists and money. And hang up fast if he starts. I doubt you'll be hearing from him much if you are firm.
I would tell him he's not welcome in your house and I'd stick to it. There is no reason for him to be there. He isn't nice to you. He could steal when he's there. He is disruptive to everyone else. He has a place to stay. You may not like it, but he's well into his 20's and you have to say so over where he resides. But you DO have a say so in if he can go to your home or not. I don't care if he throws a baby's tantrum. Making it harder for him will push him toward thinking about his lifestyle. If he truly doesn't believe he could die from his lifestyle, he is pretty far gone.
witzend
Well-Known Member
Susan, I was looking in my PM's today trying to find the info for the Cleveland trip. In it, I found a set of PM's between you and I from May 21st and the next few days where I advise you that "No" is a complete sentence, that you shouldn't engage, and that you should see a therapist about how to not talk about difficult child. You wrote back that you understood, and you were just going to say "no" from now on. You weren't going to answer the door or the phone. If he called or came by you were going to say "no" and hang up.
It's only 5 weeks later, and the same advice seems new to you. Please talk to your therapist or get a new one to talk to about not engaging with your son. Perhaps you need to look into short term memory processing for yourself, as well.
It's only 5 weeks later, and the same advice seems new to you. Please talk to your therapist or get a new one to talk to about not engaging with your son. Perhaps you need to look into short term memory processing for yourself, as well.
standswithcourage
New Member
I think I need a new therapist that does focus on me. I wonder how I could find a good one? Should I google codependent therapist.
N
Nomad
Guest
Stands...did you know that there are co-dependent groups? I think they are called CODA groups. You could get support there and ask around for a therapist that is knowledgeable/helpful about the subject.
Stands,
Please order this book from Amazon. I read it during our struggles with our daughter and it helped me realize that I couldn't help her . . . she had to do that herself. In the meantime, you have to go on with your life and be a wife and mom to your other children.
Don't Let Your Kids Kill You: A Guide for Parents of Drug and Alcohol Addicted Children (Paperback) By Charles Rubin
Here is a description of the book:
Here are some reviews:
Sound familiar? I can't recommend this book highly enough.
Here's the link:
http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Let-Your-Kids-Kill/dp/0967979056/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
Kathy
Please order this book from Amazon. I read it during our struggles with our daughter and it helped me realize that I couldn't help her . . . she had to do that herself. In the meantime, you have to go on with your life and be a wife and mom to your other children.
Don't Let Your Kids Kill You: A Guide for Parents of Drug and Alcohol Addicted Children (Paperback) By Charles Rubin
Here is a description of the book:
Here are some reviews:
Sound familiar? I can't recommend this book highly enough.
Here's the link:
http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Let-Your-Kids-Kill/dp/0967979056/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
Kathy
trinityroyal
Well-Known Member
Susan, I think Witz and Suz are giving you excellent advice.
In another thread, you mentioned that seeing your difficult child gives you the same panicky feeling that women get when they see an abusive spouse. Well, that's the sort of dynamic that you and your difficult child have.
I think you need to come up with a short simple phrase that you can say if you're ever in the situation again where your difficult child is across the street and wants to talk to you. Something really simple like, "I can't talk to you now." No explanation, no lengthening, no additional words. Then you say the phrase and walk away. Shut yourself in the house and lock the door if you have to.
Practice saying it when you're alone and everything is calm around you. Then, rather than stumbling around trying to find the right thing to say when your difficult child arrives unexpectedly, the phrase will come to you automatically, because you've been practicing.
I also agree that your therapist is giving you inappropriate advice if you're being told to do things for or about your difficult child. Therapy is supposed to be for you, about you. If it's not, then you need to find a different therapist.
And yes, please do something fun. Enjoy your summer, and don't let difficult child ruin it for you.
Trinity
In another thread, you mentioned that seeing your difficult child gives you the same panicky feeling that women get when they see an abusive spouse. Well, that's the sort of dynamic that you and your difficult child have.
I think you need to come up with a short simple phrase that you can say if you're ever in the situation again where your difficult child is across the street and wants to talk to you. Something really simple like, "I can't talk to you now." No explanation, no lengthening, no additional words. Then you say the phrase and walk away. Shut yourself in the house and lock the door if you have to.
Practice saying it when you're alone and everything is calm around you. Then, rather than stumbling around trying to find the right thing to say when your difficult child arrives unexpectedly, the phrase will come to you automatically, because you've been practicing.
I also agree that your therapist is giving you inappropriate advice if you're being told to do things for or about your difficult child. Therapy is supposed to be for you, about you. If it's not, then you need to find a different therapist.
And yes, please do something fun. Enjoy your summer, and don't let difficult child ruin it for you.
Trinity
witzend
Well-Known Member
Trinity, I agree with practicing a short simple phrase. Susan's son is manipulative of her, and Susan seems short sighted as to how to deal with anything unexpected.
If I were her son and I was hounding her, and she told me "I can't talk to you right now" I would ask her "Why can't you talk to me?" I suspect Susan would be powerless not to answer. I think "no" works much better for someone like Susan who is so easily drawn into justifying every move she makes with her son.
I also wonder if Susan has some sort of attention span disorder. She always says she's going to follow our advice, then two weeks later if someone says it again it's as though she has never heard those words before even though she may have had detailed conversations about them. It's like a smorgasbord. It all looks good, you can't eat it all, you're sure you'll get to some of it later, and you lose interest in what you thought was your favorite. It would be great if Susan could pick just 1 thing and stick with it for say, two weeks. Totally, totally stick to it. Not like in the past with "I'm not going to let him manipulate me into getting him drugs so I let him in the house and he yelled at me for two hours then when his father came home we gave him a ride to his friend's house where there are drugs." (Instead of driving him to the ER right away.)
Just. No. No and hang up. No and walk away. No and change your phone numbers. No and close the door. It needs no explanation. Just "no". I think that's all that Susan is capable of with her son. She can walk in the door and have that battle with him in her head if she wants, but battling with him in reality is killing him and alienating everyone around her.
If I were her son and I was hounding her, and she told me "I can't talk to you right now" I would ask her "Why can't you talk to me?" I suspect Susan would be powerless not to answer. I think "no" works much better for someone like Susan who is so easily drawn into justifying every move she makes with her son.
I also wonder if Susan has some sort of attention span disorder. She always says she's going to follow our advice, then two weeks later if someone says it again it's as though she has never heard those words before even though she may have had detailed conversations about them. It's like a smorgasbord. It all looks good, you can't eat it all, you're sure you'll get to some of it later, and you lose interest in what you thought was your favorite. It would be great if Susan could pick just 1 thing and stick with it for say, two weeks. Totally, totally stick to it. Not like in the past with "I'm not going to let him manipulate me into getting him drugs so I let him in the house and he yelled at me for two hours then when his father came home we gave him a ride to his friend's house where there are drugs." (Instead of driving him to the ER right away.)
Just. No. No and hang up. No and walk away. No and change your phone numbers. No and close the door. It needs no explanation. Just "no". I think that's all that Susan is capable of with her son. She can walk in the door and have that battle with him in her head if she wants, but battling with him in reality is killing him and alienating everyone around her.
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trinityroyal
Well-Known Member
Witz, you make a really good point.
I've just found that when people have trouble saying "no", sometimes it's because no is so short and they feel the need to dress it up with other words, which leads smack into trouble.
That's why I was thinking of something slightly longer. Perhaps something that doesn't lend itself to questions. But you're right. In Susan's case, maybe anything beyond "no" is just too much.
I've just found that when people have trouble saying "no", sometimes it's because no is so short and they feel the need to dress it up with other words, which leads smack into trouble.
That's why I was thinking of something slightly longer. Perhaps something that doesn't lend itself to questions. But you're right. In Susan's case, maybe anything beyond "no" is just too much.
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