Disability people are doing major maniupulation

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by DDD, Mar 1, 2011.

  1. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    difficult child (now 20) had his disability yanked four months ago after he was evaluated by a local psychologist who was his therapist back in elementary school. He's a nice man who is not too swift. After GFGmom told me she was taking care of it I subsequently found out that she had not submitted reports done by a primo neuro/psychiatric group from out of town. I wrote a cover letter for GFGmom including fact that his evaluation was done by someone who had treated him years ago, attaching copies of two separate neuro/psychiatric evaluations and adding that the newly ordered evaluation with Dr.X had been done about a year ago and paid for by Voc/Rehab by the same Dr. X.

    Would you believe? Disability says he has to have a second evaluation done by the newly local Dr. X. What to heck? I really, really believe that due to anticipated budget cuts they are determined to have two locals state he is not disabled. This is really sad and frustrating. The kid has been hired to work at a prison. That will work against him too. Chances of him keeping that job are minimal.

    If he can keep the job that's great. I don't think so but am hoping so. But..the disability people are hanging him out to dry and if he doesn't get paid for the past months..well..you and I know he will have to start from scratch all over again. I sure wish he was not disabled. He lived in my house full time for over six years. He
    has diagnosis's of ADHD, AS, BiPolar (BP) and Schizoaffective disorder. These are documented by
    five or six respected expert groups. Eh Gads. DDD
  2. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    No advice here (maybe a great lawyer to discredit them?). *HUGS* and good luck.
  3. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    So he's --TRYING to get disability again or trying NOT to get it?
  4. rlsnights

    rlsnights New Member

    I assume he is on SSI as an adult disabled as a child and that this is not his original disability determination.

    I am a little confused by your post. Is this what you are saying?

    difficult child was previously diagnosed with multiple disabling conditions by 2 different neuropsychologists. That was the basis for his original disability determination.

    For some reason, SSI decided to do a review of his case 5 or 6 months ago (is he on annual review? or every 3 years?).

    They used a report done by Dr. X one year ago for Voc/Rehab as the basis for a denial of disability determination. (Dr. X is a local psychologist(?) who had contact with difficult child when difficult child was much younger.)

    You wrote a letter to SSI saying difficult child is still disabled and attached the neuropsychologist reports to support your assertion of disability.

    SSI now says he must be re-evaluated by Dr. X.

    Was the revocation of disability determination formally appealed within the required time frame?

    If SSI didn't have the previous reports from the neuropsychs then what was the basis for the original disability determination?

    Were the neuropsychologist reports done since he went on SSI?

    If you look at this from SSI's perspective then it makes sense that they want Dr. X to do a new evaluation. It was his report that they used in the re-determination. They want to see if his position regarding difficult child's level of disability has changed or not. Plus they didn't order the earlier assessment. Voc Rehab did right?

    As far as I know, the docs who are asked to do a redetermination assessment do not have much access to the applicants previous records. They go by what they are told and what they observe at the time of the assessment.

    When Dr. X did the assessment for Voc Rehab did he have access to the neuropsychologist reports that you know of? If so and he still wrote an assessment that suggest difficult child is not really disabled it may be a matter of who he was writing the report for. Because it was meant to qualify difficult child for Voc Rehab services he cast difficult child in a favorable light. That has now backfired by messing up his disability eligibility. Unfortunately, when you are on SSI you will have a hard time staying on it if you are also determined to be eligible for Voc Rehab since the two positions are mutually exclusive. If you're so disabled you can't work then you don't need Voc Rehab. If you're able to work and need Voc Rehab then you must not be disabled to the degree required for SSI.

    You can always pay for a new or updated assessment from the neuropsychs if their previous assessments are several years old and submit that to SSI to counter the report they have from Dr. X. If the situation is as you say then you may just have to keep appealing until you can get to the ALJ level and argue the case directly. That will require an advocate and there is still a chance you will lose.

    Here's a link to a website that I have found from personal experience offers very helpful, accurate and comprehensive advice about SSI and SSDI applications, denials etc. You might to check it out.


    If difficult child's parent or legal guardian is on disability, retired or dead, difficult child may qualify for SSDI based on that person's work quarters. This is a totally different program from SSI and is not need based. You can be eligible for both SSI and SSDI and may get payments from both if the SSDI amount is lower than the SSI amount.

    And here's a link to the SSA info on assistance programs for people on SSI who want to return to work in case that is helpful to you.


  5. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the input...I'll check out the sites.

    Here's the chronology. difficult child was approved for disability prior to 18 based on application by GFGmom. She collected disability for ?? six years although he lived with us and we had no idea that she was doing so. As he was ready to enter his Senior year she talked him into moving into her house and he was thrilled. Once he turned 18 she applied for adult disability for him and he was approved with a reduced payment because he lived in her home. SS figured out that she had collected funds wrongly and began to garnish a % of her wages and reduced his disability payment to pay them back.

    Then...GFGmom decided about six months ago that she no longer wanted him in her home and the disability payments were suppose to rise because he had his own apartment. I have no idea what information she provided but I think records from his psychiatrist (top man in Tampa that I used for him and easy child/difficult child) and the local mental health services group where he was diagnosis'd with AS on top of the consistent ADHD diagnosis that everyone agreed upon for years.

    Three months ago or so he got a letter instructing him to meet with Dr. X for what I understood to be a standard annual evaluation. Dr. X was his first therapist in elementary school. He had a
    "good visit" with Dr. X according to difficult child and I am positive he enjoyed shooting the breeze with a familiar person and catching up. The visit was 30 minutes and when I asked difficult child what all they talked about it was chit chat. Dr. X informed SS that he did not need disability.

    SO...his monthly checks stopped and have not resumed. GFGmom filed papers protesting the decision and asking for resumption of his checks. When I asked GFGmom what info she had provided I found she did not include his evaluations by the top neuro/psychs out of town. She did not include that he had been evaluated (via Voc/Rab) with the new to town Psychologist. She did not include the evaluation done by Voc/Rab testing group from out of town.

    That information was forwarded to SS. The case supervisor says he is to be evaluated again by the new to town Psychologist. That is scheduled for next week. We'll see what happens. The thing is, honestly, she sells neuro-feedback hours to almost any youngster who visits her office. She is chit chatty friendly which he relates to because with AS he wants people to listen to him and he always says everything is OK or if he is in a mood to exaggerate they are terrific and he has lots of friends (nameless strangers who say Hi, for the most part) and he's ready, willing and able to work but just hasn't found a job yet. His visit with her is scheduled for an hour or less.

    So...I know how immature and dysfunctional he is and so do the out of town experts. I am very surprised that he has been hired by the private prison. If it goes well I will be delighted. on the other hand, they owe him for the past months and if he gets fired SS needs to have him on the roster as a disabled adult. DDD
  6. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Patrica I realized I didn't address your questions appropriately. The confusion has to do with Dr.X
    I think. He was difficult child's therapist when he was a youngster. He is on contract with the School Board and with SS. He did the exam for SS.

    The out of town n/psyc testing (8 hours each time) was paid for by the School Board who did not use Dr. X as difficult child needed complete professional testing and because I pointed out that Dr. X had a prior relationship with difficult child.

    Voc/Rehab sent him to the new local Psychologist (who is now going to be testing him for SS) and also had him tested by their own testers who are in Tampa.

    So the two locals are getting precedence over the more sophisticated testers from major cities.
    I'm hoping it isn't a ploy to just remove him from the SS rolls. He has disabilities that don't necessarily show up in brief encounters. Hope that helps explain my long post. DDD
  7. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    Okay D3 - I see. Thanks.
  8. rlsnights

    rlsnights New Member

    Did you get a copy of the new psychiatric's report to Voc Rehab? If not, I would see if they will give you a copy of it as it may be a good predictor of any new report she does for SSA.

    What did difficult child's mom do with the $$ she was getting from SSA? And what is the justification of taking repayment deductions from difficult child's SSI as an adult when at the time of the fraud he was a minor who had no knowledge of or ability to report the fraudulent activities of his parent?

    Please tell me you are his payee or he has an institutional payee. I feel pretty certain SSA would not agree to make his mom payee.

    It is hard to get a disability determination if your main diagnosis is ADHD once you get to be an adult. If he does not have classical AS presentation with social avoidance issues then it's probably not too likely the psychiatric is going to see him as meeting criteria for AS let alone as disabled. If he's able to carry on a reasonably reciprocal conversation with a stranger I seriously doubt he is going to get disability again until he has tried to work and failed. Hopefully he will get fired and there will be documentation from his employer that suggests he is too disabled to function in the workplace. This is tricky since no employer wants to have anything look like it's discrimination against a disabled person.

    What did Voc Rehab say about his eligibility and any training he would need to be able to get and hold a job?

    You should probably look carefully at the adult criteria for disability that you can find on the SSA website to see if you believe he does in fact meet their criteria. You have to remember that even if the only job he can hold down is collecting $ in a ticket booth under close supervision they will say that he is able to work.

    I know you probably don't want to hear this but immaturity and dysfunction are unlikely to be sufficient to get him disability right now unless they clearly fail to interfere with his ability to converse appropriately with another adult. If he is also oriented in time and space and has no physical limitations I would be very surprised if he were to get certified again. Unless the neuropsychologist reports are very recent - within the last 3 years at most - SSA is not going to give them much weight since they were performed when he was still a "child".

    The fact that he is apparently able to live independently also argues against his inability to function socially and in daily life.

    I understand that he may only be living independently because you are closely supervising his every decision and facilitating his ability to pay bills etc. But SSA will not see it that way unless you are able to clearly document your involvement and his inability to do it without you.

    I don't know who filled out his paperwork when the review took place but I doubt it accurately reflected his ADL's and the level of assistance he re requires if you believe he could not hold down even a simple part-time job.

    My best advice is to find an advocate/lawyer who specializes in SSI/SSDI appeals and get that person's assessment of the situation. I can relate my personal experiences which include being on SSI and getting on SSDI including appealing all the way to the Appeals Council and winning after being denied at the lower levels. I can offer my interpretation of the info on SSA website and my knowledge of other's experiences but I am certainly not an attorney with experience going to appeal on these cases. And I would ask the attorney about the deductions from his payments due to GFGmom's fraudulent reporting cause I am guessing that could be fought if the time limit for doing so hasn't expired. Depends some on what GFGmom did with the money probably and the total amount involved.

  9. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    He and his Mom are tight. She handles his money. Geez...you don't want to know my feelings in detail about that! He is not just diagnosis's with ADHD and AS. He also was diagnosis's as schizoaffective disorder by the out of town n/p facility and the new local facility that he is going to via Medicaid added BiPolar (BP). All of that is in writing.

    I can not do anything more than pick up the slack (like getting the reports and writing the letter for GFGmom) and being there when he reaches out. It's a complicated situation but the bottom line is that once she convinced him to go live with her...he felt like he and his Mom had finally bonded. He's gone down the tube as a result.

    When it comes to money I am positive that GFGmom will hire an attorney. When it comes to money she will do and say most anything. husband asked difficult child the other night "if you start working at the prison can you and I talk about setting up your money the right way?". His response was "my Mom takes care of my money". Geez! DDD
  10. rlsnights

    rlsnights New Member

    That's hard to swallow. They let her get away with fraud for years and then they let her be his payee? Or is he his own payee and she just takes it all and does what she wants?
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2011
  11. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I think he is his own payee and she is on the account with him. She makes sure the rent is paid (absolutey does not want him to come back to her house), electric and cable. Because of the reduced amount there was not excess prior to the ending of his payments. Obviously I agree that reducing his payments is nonesense, cutting off his disability is even bigger nonesense...and biggest of all not having an independent payee is huge. Guess we'll see what happens next. DDD