He Doesn't Have a Clue...

[CrazyinVA]

Actually, if husband is an alcoholic, he is a master of denial and rationalizaion... and it explains a lot of his behavior and his attitudes. It doesn't excuse it, or make it any easier.. but... it tells me that it is not going to change.

I wish you the best, WSM. I would do your best not to engage in the back and forth with him... .. just make your plan, and follow through with it. I have a feeling threats aren't going to make any difference in your husband's behavior, and will only cause more stress as you listen to him make his excuses over and over.

 

[susiestar]

This situation sounds sadder and sadder for everyone involved each time I read it. Regardless of difficult child's mental illness/sociopathy, his life seems to be totally without hope from his point of view. I know he destroys things, but it still just seems sad to be alone in his room under lockdown all the time. I also know it is for safety reasons, but I think H should be horsewhipped for not getting him into more secure surroundings so that difficult child and all who know him can be safe.

I hope that you go to AlAnon meetings. If you are not already going, you need to start. While H is the alcoholic, YOU picked him to marry. We all tend to pick what we are familiar with and/or think we deserve. On some level you chose H and his problems. Alcoholism truly is a family disease. I personally can look to each and every relative on both sides of my family and pinpoint the many alcoholics swinging through the family tree. I chose AlAnon when husband and I first got married because I wanted better for my children. husband wanted better for his children also - his family has the same problems with alcohol.

There are many MANY meetings in just about every town across the country. I would liek to invite you to go to several different meetings until you find one you are comfortable with. Your children have now lived with your alcoholic H for quite a while so they should be going to Alateen as often as possible. make it an activity that they get rewarded for. It will only make them healthier and happier people as they grow. It also can help them see the alcoholic tendencies they have and it will give them a fighting chance to avoid it.

The meetings can only make you stronger. They will give you a wonderful support base and can help you learn to navigate this difficult subject with the least amount of negative impact to you and to your children.

You can find meetings in the phone book, listed in many newspapers, or online. For your children you may want to suggest Adult Children of Alcoholics meetings. At least for the children in college.

Hoping and praying you can find a way out of this mess into the sunshine.

 

[graceupongrace]

WSM,

I am so sad about this. It is horrible for everyone. But it seems like the smaller issues (the book, etc.) are obscuring the big ones. difficult child truly sounds scary and dangerous. The family is not being protected from him, and he is not getting the help he needs. husband is focusing on how people perceive his parenting skills, and not on what needs to be done for difficult child and for his wife & other kids (step and bio). His drinking is making everything worse. None of you should have to live with a kid who has to be locked up in his room and under 24-hour surveillance; he should be somewhere where he gets around-the-clock help when he needs it.

I would encourage you to talk to the sympathetic CPS lady to see if anything can be done to resolves difficult child's situation faster. And I concur with Susiestar that Alanon is a good way for you to get the support you need, whether you decide to file for divorce or not. It has literally been a lifesaver for friends of mine.

Hugs and prayers, WSM. I know this has been a long and difficult journey.

 

[Twinners]

...And doesn't want a clue either.

So last week is difficult child's first week back from boot camp. Monday he has court. Tuesday he is home alone with my son 15. He has to stay in his room with alarms and there are cameras set up. But difficult child has torn, broken or thrown away just about everything he owns. So he has nothing to do in his room until 3 when I get home and let him go out in the backyard. So husband gives difficult child a book, one of my books. Does he asks me if I want to risk giving difficult child one of my books? No. Does he tell me he gave difficult child one of my books? No. He just gives it to difficult child because difficult child is bored and asked for it and he thought difficult child would like it.

Thursday night my son17 goes late to the ER, advanced appendicitis. I spend most of the rest of the week at the hospital. Friday husband is running around from hospital to dentist for stepdaughter, etc... But Friday and Saturday night difficult child is not watched and gets run of the house. Today he's left alone in the family room from with stepdaughter about 9 am until I get wind of it and come home at 2 pm and husband puts him back in his room. The CPS lady would have a fit if she knew. I call my husband a sneak. He calls me controlling. He claims he was watching, difficult child and stepdaughter had a good time, nothing happened. I'm just controlling.

If difficult child is not removed from the home there is no way in hell this marriage can survive.

Doesn't help that Friday his brother called him and reamed him out about family issues and also criticized him for how mean he is to difficult child. I'm just another person criticizing him about his parenting. Hey, if EVERYONE is criticizing you about your parenting, then....maybe get a clue? (Of course we all criticize about different things: his family wants him to divorce me and turn over childrearing to them, I want him to clamp down on difficult child and play it straight and consistent, social services wants husband to put him in expensive hospitals and rtcs, the school wants him to be more understanding and give difficult child the benefit of the doubt).

I'm sorry, WSM, but if I had to stay in a room day in and day out with little to nothing in it except alarms, cameras and so forth until someone came home to let me out in the backyard, I'd behave badly too. LOL.

I know this website is intended to support the parent's of difficult child's, but honestly, every single time I read your posts, all I want to do is find your husband's difficult child and comfort him because, from what I've seen, he has no one else to do it and that makes my heart hurt for him.

Going by your signature, you've been with difficult child since he was 7, yet it doesn't seem the you have developed the same kind of bond with him that you have with your stepdaughter. I'm curious, is that because his behavior has always been different or has there been something else that has kept the two of you from becoming close?

 

[susiestar]

Twinners, ALL WSM is trying to do is to keep the family safe from this child. He shows many many signs and red flags for sociopathy (antisocial personality disorder) and he is a very very scary child.

On the surface, yes, it seems the "poor kid" could use some "comfort". However, the child is kept away from the rest of the family because he is NOT SAFE to have around the other kids/adults. Not only does he destroy things but he also hurts people and has done all he can to destroy just about everything.

WSM is ONLY pushing to have the child kept in his room because it is what CPS (Children's Protective Services, may be under a different name in different parts of the country) said to do. CPS SAID TO DO THIS!!!

It is NOT WSM being mean. She is trying her best to get the "poor child" into a treatment facility so that he has some sort of chance in life. If left at home he will NOT be anything resembling a safe and contributing member of society.

Often when we are new here we can see/hear of things that really are heartbreaking. But as parents of difficult children, we know that often what can seem like "cruelty" is what is needed to keep everyone safe.

WSM's husband is an alcoholic from a very dysfunctional family. There is a LOT of mental illness on both sides of the difficult child's family. Her H is doing all he can to control who gets what info about difficult child so that no one "takes difficult child away" or sees he is a "bad parent".

WSM is hanging on in the situation because she is quite certain that her stepdau will be abused to the point her spirit is destroyed if she leaves. From teh descriptions of the difficult child, the boy refused to bond with her no matter what she did. In the beginning she did a LOt for the difficult child.

So even though it is HARD, dang hard, a real parent has to do what is best for the family, ALL of the family. That is all WSM is trying to do.

 

[JJJ]

Twinners - Be grateful that your difficult child is not as severe as WSM's difficult child. As the mother of a child who will likely finish growing up in a treatment center, it is heartbreaking to have your child go away but it would be more heartbreaking not to keep everyone safe. A therapist once told me that when a child is that unstable and that dangerous, the number one priority is to keep the child from killing someone -- not just for the benefit of his/her possible victims, but because once a child crosses that line, most never heal.

You have posted twice - both times against WSM. If you are here for support, please tell us your story. If you are here just to harass WSM, please stop.

 

[TerryJ2]

WSM, all I can do is agree with-everyone, particularly Marg and Susiestar.
I think somewhere, deep down, your husband cares about you, but he cares about himself, his Almighty Bottle, and his son first. You are somewhere further down the list.
I assume that your phone calls will be to a lawyer, to CPS and to the bank.
Best of luck.

Twinner, if you go back and search under WSM's subject headings, you'll see the entire history here. It's worth the read. It's too hard for you to figure it all out based on this one thread. I see your point, but there's a big difference between allowing a teen out in the back yard by himself, yet supervised, when he had already been out of the home and incarcerated and/or treated, and letting him play with-a girl to whom he is a danger.
The book isn't about "letting him read a book," per se. It's about communication between spouses and respecting one another's POVs. The book is sort of a symbol of background info and baggage, Know what I mean??

Thanks for joining us. I look forward to hearing about you on other threads.

 

[Marguerite]

I'm hoping he didn't damage the book (for once).

Somewhere in there is a scared, frightened kid. That's for sure. But you don't go in to give such a kid a loving hug until you've double-checked that he's not holding a knife behind his back waiting to plunge it into you...

H's behaviour all through this has primarily been one of covering tracks. Instead of trying to look further ahead, he's lurching from crisis to crisis, using denial as hhis main coping strategy. The problem with this - his son desperately needs GOOD treatment and constant supervision. And while tis denial is going on, it's never gonig to happen. So difficult child is going to grow from a scared, confused, disturbed kid into a dangerously unstable and manipulative adult. As an adult he will be more likely either dangerously at large, or in prison. NOT getting the medical help he so desperately needs and that his father is denying, because of his own fears and desires.

We all have different reasons for coming to this site. My difficult child 3 is a malleable darling compared to some of the trasures here. But we all love our kids, even if sometimes we don't like them very much. THose of us who are here are all working to help our kids learn to live independently. But not all parents are like this, unfortuantely. And not all kids will ever be able to live independently. Some of us here have horror stories of kids you have had to remove from your home and lives permanently, even to the extent of going into hiding to avoid tem; then deal with the damage done by those kids to the rest of the family.

Sociopaths are unfortunately not so rare. I've worked with one. I have another one as a neighbour. Most sociopaths are law-abiding simply because if they get caught, their freedom is curtailed. But there are other laws, of human interaction and social acceptability, that they will break if it suits their purpose to do so. And I'm talking about adults who have learned what society expects and have learned to "keep their head down" at least legally.

I'm not so certain WSM's stepson is a sociopath - certainly there is something else there. But how can a kid learn what is right, if it's not being consistently modelled for him? Under these circumstances (a child who is apparently seriously mentally ill and not always fully aware of what he does, plus a father who is so dangerously inconosistent) how can a kid ever learn what is right? And the more this kid 'breaks out' of the confinement imposed on him (for the sake of everyone else's safety) then the more he feels superior to those confining him, and the more dangerously mentally ill he becomes.

He needs to be hospitalised or institutionalised, out of the home and somewhere that he can be supervised by people who won't be conned by the wide brown eyes looking innocent.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to show love to a child who is disturbed, but you should never let it blind you to the dangers - to yourself, and to that child by failure to properly treat what is wrong.

WSM, like you I just despair that so much time has been wasted, when this boy could have been getting proper treatment. Soon it will be too late. If it isn't already. Then all you can do is salvage. I suspect H secretly beleives this now, which is why his main strategies are stalling and denial.

Sounds to me that H has pickled what few brain cells remain. Who can pronounce "self-medicate"?

Marg

 

[BusynMember]

Twinnings, you haven't been following the story. I think you should hold back on judging her. She is doing the best she can with a very dangerous child. I'm not going to tell her story to you, but you may want to read it first before you get outraged. Most of us are urging her to leave while she still can. I hope you don't know WSM.

We'd love to hear about your child, but we don't need your judgement.

 

[midwestdad]

I'll add my voice to the chorus on this one. Even without speaking to the huge issues that WSM has had to face, I think most of us have had to take measures in our households to keep everyone safe that others might find extreme. Would it be better to let someone get hurt? It sure seems to be that if something isn't done soon, that'll be what's happening in her house. Just giving difficult child a big ol' hug isn't going to resolve the problem.

On a side note, WSM, I wanted you to know that I indentify with so much of what's going on with you, and I look forward to all your posts. I admire your strength in dealing with an impossible situation.

 

[Twinners]

Twinner, if you go back and search under WSM's subject headings, you'll see the entire history here. It's worth the read. It's too hard for you to figure it all out based on this one thread.

It definitely is, Terry, and I thank you for the suggestion! I stayed up late last night (til about 5:00 am this morning actually!) reading through WSM's older posts and everything that I felt seemed to be missing from the two threads I had read is all there. I only wish I'd had the sense to read them *before* I posted the first time. But, unfortunately, I can't take back what I've already said. All I can do is offer up my sincerest apologies to all of you, especially WSM, for it now and hope that all of you will be able to see that I'm really not the attacking, judgemental witch I seemed to be in my first two posts as time goes by.

Anyway, I'm off to do more reading while I have a little quiet in the house. I'll be back to respond to everyone else later today!

 

[lizanne2]

Wow, I have read all these posts...and I hope that change comes for everyone in this family.

I will report that I lost my relationship with a stepson from a similiar situation. No one was going to let him stay with me...out of spite. Well, now that 22 yr old step son is locked up. His road to getting to prison clearly laid out for him by his dad(my ex) and his biomom and the rest of the bunch. Oh, and the other step son was a difficult child whose principal at his Special Education placement said to me...."..you know, when he finally does snap, its you he is after." The hardest thing I ever did was leave that youngest step son behind. He cried in may car the day I left with my two kids.

BUT IT WAS ALL ABOUT MY SAFETY AND THE LITTLE (BIO) KIDS SAFETY.

At some point I moved forward for me and my kids. When I had decided, I just moved forward without involving anyone but the ones for whom I make decisions. I was actually quite pleasant to be around. And also absolutely devastated. But found some good support and moved on.

This is not an easy road but.......

And I am sorry I told so much of my story but...sometimes moving forward in those areas you can control is liberating.

Keep us posted and stay safe........if you are not safe call the DV helpline...... they will talk with you for as long as you need.

Thinking of you often.

 

[busywend]

Twinners, I am sure the apology is appreciated and accepted.

 

[TerryJ2]

Thank you, Twinners. It's hard to keep up with-all the notes, and of all the notes you chose to reply to, wouldn't it be just the way life is to choose one of the most complicated cases!

Lizanne2, that is heartbreaking. But you're right, your realm of influence or control is only so big, and it often comes down to that.

 

[WSM]

Nothing dramatic has happened since the 'come to Jesus' confrontation I had with husband on Monday. He's kept difficult child under surveillance (by the way, our backyard is not so bad: it has a pool, a hottub, a trampoline, a lake with two canoes, two dogs, the largest ficu tree in the county for climbing, and a variety of soccer balls, backet balls, foot balls, hula hoops, skates, etc...and we live in FL so the backyard is nice year around)

My son got out of the hospital and just left for college this morning. Stepdaughter had two more teeth removed, the other kids got registered and orientated to their new schools. I applied for a transfer to my home town in Michigan.

For a couple days husband gave me the silent treatment, sort of. Tuesday he came home from work, I said hello, he ignored me, I said to the kids, I guess I don't rate a hello, a minute later he realized I'd done him a favor by picking up stepdaughter from camp and he thanked me and I said nothing, a few minutes later he said good bye cheerfully as sdaughter and he went to her school open house and I said good bye cheerfully.

Tuesday night our marriage builders group jumped all over husband. One woman said: "You are insane. First you say "What CPS order (of protection)?" Then, you name the order. Have you completely lost it? I'm a parent myself, and it's parents like you who put all of our children at risk. This is the same kind of attitude I'd expect from the parents of those Columbine kids. When will you wake up and stop making excuses for your son? He's smart, he's sinister, he's a liar and has demonstrated sociopathy. Simply put, he is A MENACE TO SOCIETY. You, your FOO, and especially your mom, are a part of the problem. I just hope I don't live near you because this is downright dangerous, in my opinion."

He feels the marriage group will not be of any benefit to him any more since they all 'hate' him now, but he still wants to use the principles and counseling to fix the marriage. He's taken his ring off--a big symbolic deal for him (ask me what happened once when I lost mine, it was later found in the bedsheets but he accused me of making a huge dramatic gesture, blah, blah), but has been pleasant to live with.

We have 18 days until court. difficult child was supposed to have an appointment with 2 counselors and the public defender. difficult child has an appointment with one on Tuesday, and finally got the PDefender's letter instructing him who to contact. He hasn't heard anything from the other therapist. I'm going to push for him to push for an appointment; I don't want the court hearings on Sept 10 to be delayed because difficult child didn't see one of the court therapists.

difficult child is not a scared little boy. difficult child is excited about starting school (his day camp refused to allow him back since he returned from boot camp). But it's likely per CPS lady that difficult child will be removed from the home and won't be going but a couple weeks to this school. difficult child doesn't think anything is going to much happen; after all nothing has ever happened before, and he's good at being appealing and remorseful and bewildered, and husband I think is being very reassuring. So difficult child's not worried about it.

I worry that difficult child will be let off easy again; and if so I will be making alternative arrangements. I've talked to all my kids about the possibiilty of divorce, they'd rather it didn't happen, especially my 15 year old, but it's okay if it does. I've applied for a transfer but doubt I'll get it. They want specifically people with cyber skills and I don't have those, but the announcement said that they may fill other positions from this announcement, so maybe. I do know the federal budget is going to hire about 600 of my job catagory this year and next year, so I should be able to transfer eventually. But this helps me get my resume and KSAs up to date. husband doesn't know.

Our house is a mess. We have a couple half finished remodelling proects and husband is a pack rat and messy as are the kids. It will be hard to sell, but we should be able to cover the mortgage and most of the heloc and I will ask the judge for a garnishment order to make sure he pays his share of left over marital debt. He's going to be hurting badly financially if we break up. I'll be tight for a while but ok.

Thursday he backed my car into another in a parking lot and caused $1000 of damage. He owes me $900 for a car lease I cosigned for him and can't ever seem to pay the $300 a month he agreed. I turn the car in in Mar, but can do so earlier. He's just got a 20 year old toyota truck that's unreliable. And he has abt $7000 credit card bills, difficult child's medical bills, legal bills, and dental bills.

difficult child wants braces (his teeth look straight) because the dentist said he needs him and was pushing husband for them. husband simply doesn't have $7000 for braces, and stepdaughter needs them too. He said he's going to do stepdaughters but not difficult child and difficult child was sulking about it. husband told difficult child the dentist just said that because he wants to make money. But the truth is difficult child costs so much in legal, therapeutic, and medical bills he's used up his share and more of the budget.

At stepD's open house, they discribed how her 4th grade would be taking a field trip in March that costs $400. husband already told her he couldn't afford it. I told her I would pay for it, and we looked at a calendar and figured out how much to save from each pay check. husband was bitter because difficult child didn't get to go on his 5th grade field trip because he was being punished for making false allegations of abuse to CPS. If difficult child wanted this badly to go on a field trip, husband would make sure it happened.

husband may or may not care about me, but I think he realizes he needs to make this marriage work or he may find himself in some pretty severe financial trouble, the kind where you can't even rent an apartment--he'll have to go begging to his mother and brother for financial help and they will be brutal--but they'll be so delighted we are split up, they'll give it with big fat dysfunctional ropes attached. He might be willing to do it for difficult child, but if the state takes difficult child away, he needs the marriage.

For me, I'm slowly moving away and detaching. I'm going to push for cleaning and clearing out the house, finishing the remodelling and organizing. Most of the furnishing were bought by me before the marriage so that won't be a problem. I see no point in working on the marriage as long as difficult child is in the house; even if the state removes him for 4 months for punishment or therapy, there still is no reason. husband can't learn and grow in 4 months. So unless difficult child goes for at least a year or 18 months, there's no point.

But I get promoted in March, and in March 2011 I get a significant promotion ($20,000 more than now). I work for the Federal government so I know exactly when I'll be promoted. In March 2012, 2013, and 2014 I'll get a yearly raise as I work up the step promotions. My youngest graduates in 2013. If difficult child goes away for 18 months, that gets me to 2011. The housing market will be better, husband's debts with me will be cleared away, I'll be comfortable salary-wise and have a nice savings cushion. StepD will be 11 and more savvy.

But I think there's only a 30% chance of that, a 30% chance difficult child will go away for 1-4 months, and a 30% chance difficult child will be put into a therapy program that keeps him at home. And if that happens I'll be out of the divorced by Christmas.

So I'm waiting for Sep 10.

 

[TerryJ2]

Wow. You've certainly done your homework.
I'm sending strength, clarity, persistence and hugs for Sept. 10.
That marriage builders group sounds interesting! Is it nationwide?

 

[WSM]

Of course Sept 10 might be a big wash out. It may be delayed, or the judge wants more consultations with psychiatrists, or some procedure may be out of place and the whole thing gets delayed another month.

Or he may be found guilty, but no determination is made as to what to do about him and he may have to be brought back for sentencing later after a series of assessments.

I don't know anything about how juvenile court handles these things. But it occurred to me this hell could go on forever.

And make no mistake, the hell is not difficult child, the hell is a husband who cannot be trusted to do the right thing for anyone.

 

[TerryJ2]

I know. I hear you.
It won't go on forever. It just feels like it. There are actions you can take in the meantime.

 

[Mattsmom277]

Wow. Your strength astounds me and I very much admire your coping skills and courage.
I don't know what to say in response to all of this, except that I do hope you all wind up happy throughout all of this. You have a true moms heart. You deserve better. As do the kids. Your day will come. (((hugs)))