He Wants To nNow Why I'm Mad At Him

[Bunny]

I'm starting to cook dinner last night and I ask him to look in the downstairs fridge to see if I have an open bottle of white wine. He was watching something on the DVR that I recorded for him, so his reply was, "No! Why do I have to do everything for you?" I looked at him and said, "Fine, but dont' ask me to do anything for you anymore," and I walked away. He completely loses it. Screaming at me to "get in here" so that he could "talk" to me. By then I had several pots on the stove going, so I told him no. If he wanted to talk to me he needed to come to me in the kitchen, or wait until I could leave the kitchen. He continues screaming at me, walks into the kitchem screaming at me that he asked me to come talk to him and why am I so lazy that I can't come talk to him when he's upset and all I'm doing is making him angry. I remained VERY calm and repeated what I said before. I could not leave the kitchen when he called for me. He either had to come to me or wait until I could leave the kitchen. "I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR HALF AN HOUR!! I'M NOT WAITING HALF AN HOUR TO TALK TO YOU! YOU KNOW WHAT, MOM? F YOU!! YOU HEAR ME?? F YOU!!"

Still remaining calm, I looked at him and said that he should try saying that to me when his father is home and we'll see how far that gets him. He said it to me again and I said to him, "Same to you, dearie," and went back to making dinner. Not my best moment, but I was getting really pi$$ed off by now because he had now spent half an hour in a rage because I asked him to do something for me, and if he had just shut his mouth and done it it would have taken less than five minutes. So now he's mad because I cursed at him and how does he think that makes him feel. He (finally) walks away, then comes back five minutes later, crying his crocodile tears, saying he's sorry. I said thank you for saying so, and went on with what I was doing. Then it became that he said he was mad because he said he was sorry and I didn't even seem to care. "How do you think that makes me feel? I said I was sorry and you didn't say anything to me? You cursed at me, too, you know! You said 'same to you' and that's the same at cursing at me."

And ten minutes later he walks into the kitchen, all sunshine and rainbows, and can't understand why I'm still annoyed at him!

 

[SuZir]

Isn't it lovely how when they are over it, everyone else should also be?

Maybe it is time to tell him "Welcome to the real world, dearie" Sorry doesn't make up a lot in the end. And if used too often without backing it up, it will become meaningless. In big things in life, it is not about what you say, it is what you do. You can tell someone you love them, or that you are sorry, until you are blue , but it doesn't matter a whiff, if your actions are not showing the same. We have had some success with the difficult child (and even more so with the easy child) in making them make up things, make amends, have do overs and be given an opportunity to make it right again. At times the sorry was too difficult, or too easy, word for difficult child. And being able to make it right again in some more concrete way meant a lot.

difficult children, or PCs, or any human beings, can not often promise to never do something again and be sure about that, but they are often able to make up their screw ups and hurtful words and actions. And having that possibility to repair things they broke does help also them to feel better of themselves.

 

[DaisyFace]

Ugh!!!

Does your difficult child get any kind of consequence for that level of disrespect?

 

[Bunny]

Sorry doesn't make up a lot in the end. And if used too often without backing it up, it will become meaningless.

I have said this to him on many occasions, but a little differently. I have told him that I'll know that he's relly sorry when he stops doing the behavior that he's sorry for. He's not sorry unless he tries not to do it anymore. If he's not trying to stop the behavior, "sorry" is just word. And he looks at me like I have two heads and am from Mars. I can't tell if he truly does not get it, of if he just doesn't want to get it because that would mean that he would actually have to work at something.

Diasy, what I told him was that since he spoke to me like that he needed to take care of himself. Make sure that he got his homework done. Made his lunch. Whatever he needed to do, do it himself. I was not going to help him because I was not going to be spoken to like that. He cried, "But I'm sorry! I said I was sorry!" I told him that it wasn't enough this time and I'm sick of it. Don't ask me for help because you're not going to get it. Of course, that makes me "mean mom", but I don't care.

He's 13. Five more years until I send him off to school somewhere because he is NOT staying home for culinary school.

 

[SuZir]

I have said this to him on many occasions, but a little differently. I have told him that I'll know that he's relly sorry when he stops doing the behavior that he's sorry for. He's not sorry unless he tries not to do it anymore. If he's not trying to stop the behavior, "sorry" is just word. And he looks at me like I have two heads and am from Mars. I can't tell if he truly does not get it, of if he just doesn't want to get it because that would mean that he would actually have to work at something.

Not doing something again may be very difficult or even impossible for him. And it doesn't really do him any good to teach him to promise not to do it ever again - and then do it again five minutes later.

He is still young and these are difficult matters for anyone. And extra difficult for difficult children. And I'm sorry, but I'm not sure, that you 'not doing anything for him' in return really helps him learn that well. It of course may be effective, but I do know it wouldn't have taught my difficult child a thing. He would have just had one more pity party for himself because mom was mean to him and life sucked. He did need much more concrete guideing when he was 13 and quite a bit after that, I'm afraid.

So in our house it was more like:
"You hurt my feelings and I feel bad and unrespected." "Sorry is not enough to make it right. It is now your job to make up what you said and make me feel better and respected again. Until that you can not do/have this, that and that." "You can make me feel better and respected by making for example thing x, thing y and/or thing z. You can choose yourself which one is the most apporiate to the situation. It may also help, if I felt you would be working on how to not behave that often like you did this time in future. Maybe you could come up with why you said what you said and how you could have handled it differently. If you get stuck, dad may help you to figure it out with you."

At times it did work, at times not so much.

Hugs! Bratty teens blow!

 

[DaisyFace]

So in out house it was more like:
"You hurt my feelings and I feel bad and unrespected." "Sorry is not enough to make it right. It is now your job to make up what you said and make me feel better and respected. Until that you can not do/have this, that and that." "You can make me feel better and respected by making for example thing x, thing y and/or thing z. You can choose yourself which one is the most apporiate to the situation. It may also help, if I felt you would be working on how to not behave that often like you did this time in future. Maybe you could come up with why you said what you said and how you could have handled it differently. If you get stuck, dad may help you to figure it out with you."

This is really good advice. We've done similar in our house, as well - the idea that "sorry" does not fix it....but X, Y, or Z might make the other person feel better.

 

[bigbear11]

Isn't it lovely how when they are over it, everyone else should also be?

Maybe it is time to tell him "Welcome to the real world, dearie" Sorry doesn't make up a lot in the end. And if used too often without backing it up, it will become meaningless. In big things in life, it is not about what you say, it is what you do. You can tell someone you love them, or that you are sorry, until you are blue , but it doesn't matter a whiff, if your actions are not showing the same. We have had some success with the difficult child (and even more so with the easy child) in making them make up things, make amends, have do overs and be given an opportunity to make it right again. At times the sorry was too difficult, or too easy, word for difficult child. And being able to make it right again in some more concrete way meant a lot.

QUOTE]

Love that advice! We have the same issue with "I'm sorry". Without actions and change it is just a word. I think we will try this... it will provide a "consequence" to the behavior but in a different context. Sometimes TRex just tunes us out with alot of words but after a rage she is very open and communicative. Its like her brain is empty after all that anger and physical stuff and can take in things more than normal.

I must say that I so been there done that with the whole "if you are going to speak to me/treat me that way then forget me buying you things, doing things, etc." Not a fine moment but sometimes....

 

[SmallTownMom]

In our house I always tell my boys that "I'm sorry" means that "I'll never do it again".

 

[TeDo]

I tell them the same thing Lavender but in the middle of a rage all rules, advice, and appropriateness go out the window. When they come back and calmly say sorry I simply reply "thanks for the apology but I still feel ......" I want them to know that the words are the right thing to do but that it doesn't make things back to normal. difficult child 1 thinks it should all be done and over with after he says sorry. I'm working on teaching him the whole point of view thing. If I were to tell him that he has to do x, y, or z to make me feel better, it will be totally over his head as to why it's his job to make me feel better. That whole concept is just foreign to him. After all, he doesn't get to tell me what to do to make HIM feel better.

 

[SuZir]

I just feel that never is an awfully long time. And I know that I have a tendency to repeat my mistakes at times. So I always tried to hit home the 'seriously trying to make better in future' point of view.

My difficult child used to whine why he should always be the one whose responsibility it was to make it better. And I pointed out that it was his words and actions that caused the hurt. Sometimes he took it better and sometimes not so well. And yes, this rule does apply to everyone in this house (if they are not using four legs and barking and even them kind of get it.) So if I did wrong difficult child (or easy child or husband) I was making amends. And made a big deal out of it. I just tried to hit home that relationships are the two way streets and you have to work on them. And if wrong them the best course of action is often to try to make it up.

I'm not claiming any spectacular success, but even difficult child did learn something and while he is still having huge problems especially in peer relationships and in bigger groups, he does do much better in closer relationships.

 

[buddy]

Not doing something again may be very difficult or even impossible for him. And it doesn't really do him any good to teach him to promise not to do it ever again - and then do it again five minutes later.

He is still young and these are difficult matters for anyone. And extra difficult for difficult children. And I'm sorry, but I'm not sure, that you 'not doing anything for him' in return really helps him learn that well. It of course may be effective, but I do know it wouldn't have taught my difficult child a thing. He would have just had one more pity party for himself because mom was mean to him and life sucked. He did need much more concrete guideing when he was 13 and quite a bit after that, I'm afraid.

So in our house it was more like:
"You hurt my feelings and I feel bad and unrespected." "Sorry is not enough to make it right. It is now your job to make up what you said and make me feel better and respected again. Until that you can not do/have this, that and that." "You can make me feel better and respected by making for example thing x, thing y and/or thing z. You can choose yourself which one is the most apporiate to the situation. It may also help, if I felt you would be working on how to not behave that often like you did this time in future. Maybe you could come up with why you said what you said and how you could have handled it differently. If you get stuck, dad may help you to figure it out with you."

At times it did work, at times not so much.

Hugs! Bratty teens blow!

I have been in this same place Bunny (I know you know that from my posts, haha)....and I have taken the exact same route. I have also done what suzir said, just depends on the situation...

I think it is actually a natural consequence, well connected to the situation, to have you not get him what he wanted for that time. Tomorrow is a new day, but for that night, I can see taking time off. Now, if he not only said sorry but corrected the behavior and came to you asking in an appropriate way for help, being willing to wait until you could attend to him, I probably would have said thanks for fixing the problem and helped him. But it sounds like he was not in that place this time.

There are times when I suggest what can be done to fix it (and I also say what you say, sorry only means something if you stop--and it is not that I expect he will stop forever but sometimes he is continuing at that moment and still trying to say sorry, are you kidding me kid??? ....but that sometimes bites me back because he now says he is not going to bother to say sorry because he knows I wont accept it...then I have to explain that he needs to say sorry but also to show that he is sorry...uggg)

There are also times when he ends up cleaning his room and taking out the trash etc... with no prompts and doing extra to show me he is sorry...but also to get what he wants, but that is ok. Most people work for a paycheck and if that is what motivates him to do better that is ok for a step. The other day his Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) worker got him to spend some of his money on a "sorry card" inside it said sorry for being mean to you. I read it and said thanks, he said you are welcome and turned around walking away calling me a bit**. nice.

I dont have the option of using a dad for back up but I am glad you do. Your response of same to you??? I found myself thinking the other day that old kid saying "I know you are but what am I??", LOL I didn't say it but I thought it. When he calls me a son of a b. I have explained that he is the son and I am the B. which was totally inappropriate but I have those moments when I am not so proud of myself and not super therapeutic....

But anyway, just sharing that I have been in that exact same place of cooking or doing laundry or whatever while he expects me to drop everything and attend to him and I just keep doing what I am doing as thirty minutes of continuous rant goes on. For Q it is a matter of his brain needing to just settle down sometimes. If I talk it can just cause him to need to respond in any way. I can really relate to some days just doing the best you can up to a point and then saying something you might regret, but really not the end of the world.

I hope today goes better.....hugs.

 

[Liahona]

We do this. If he hurts or is mean to someone he has to do a service for them. This is after the consequence of not being able to be around them.

We only started this after we got the rages under control. When he was raging he had to not be around others. Weather that meant he went to his room or we left depended on the situation and where in the house he was when he started raging. He just wasn't able to process it during or after a rage. And, frankly, I was so exhausted I wouldn't have been able to enforce it.

 

[SuZir]

Buddy: Thank you for pointing out so tactfully that I may have sounded a bit condescending. I'm sorry and didn't mean to do so. (But I will not promise not to do it ever again. I may give repeat performances, it is one of my character flaws.)

Indeed I was lucky to have husband to help and take his turns to battle the situations. And my difficult child was probably much easier than most of yours. And still there were days I wasn't constructive at all but went to same level with the difficult child, or just pretended not to even notice so I didn't need to do anything about it. Or just blew up and was miserable.

 

[buddy]

Buddy: Thank you for pointing out so tactfully that I may have sounded a bit condescending. I'm sorry and didn't mean to do so. (But I will not promise not to do it ever again. I may give repeat performances, it is one of my character flaws.)

Indeed I was lucky to have husband to help and take his turns to battle the situations. And my difficult child was probably much easier than most of yours. And still there were days I wasn't constructive at all but went to same level with the difficult child, or just pretended not to even notice so I didn't need to do anything about it. Or just blew up and was miserable.

Oh wow, not my intention at all, I really was able to relate to both of your posts...how sad is that??? I feel sometimes like I do try everything under the sun and usually I can see the big picture--he has come a long way--but some things are still so challenging and I do realize could be forever challenges that will just have to be "managed" for him. In any event, I simply was sharing because for me, it really makes a huge difference to know I am not the only one.

 

[STRESSEDTOMAX]

OMG...this scenario happens at my house all the time. It actually happened yesterday afternoon. He was in the computer room with my phone and I asked him to bring it to me in the living room so that I could google something for ....Me?...nope....HIM!! He calls me mean and refuses to bring it to me. I'm thinking that there's NO WAY I am getting up from this couch...lol. He goes on and on and on when to get up and bring it to me would have taken maybe 5 seconds. It didn't get to a full-blown meltdown, thank God, but it easily could have. And he ALWAYS says: "how do you think that makes ME feel? and God forbid I curse at HIM after he's been cursing up and down at me!! I really think they think they can act whatever way they want and we cannot get angry and if we do get angry, we'd better get over it quick. Crazy making.

 

[Bunny]

Thank you, Buddy.

He was actually good this morning. Got up, dressed, ate, ready for school, all without prompting from me. We'll see how he is when he gets home from school. There is an "optional" track meet tonight and he has opted not to go, but as of this morning he still seemed to be on the fence. Should I go? Should I not go? Tell me what so do??

Honestly, after I sat down and thought about it, I think that his behavior last night was brought on by his anxiety about this meet and whole "should he go, shouldn't he go" thing.

 

[STRESSEDTOMAX]

You know it's weird. when I was thirty(18 years ago now), I remember being with a group of people and there was this one couple who were having big problems with their son. I didn't know them at all and I don't remember the age of the child, although I think he was in his teens. I remember them saying that he said F*** you to them. Well...I clearly remember saying to them that if my child EVER spoke to me like that they would be living somewhere else!! Of course, that was back in the days when I had only two PCs and everything that we discuss on this board was UNIMAGINABLE to me. I can't tell you how many times I wish that I knew who those parents were so that I could go back and apologize to them for my lack of understanding and empathy. I have eaten those words more times than I can count in the last ten years. I never knew that these problems existed. So...as far as consequences for that language, I will tell you quite honestly, I would have done the same thing as you, Bunny. To me, saying F*** you is like a easy child saying "shut up". Absolutely disrespectful but not worth starting another meltdown over. I really feel that this consequence thing for difficult children...excluding natural consequences, of course, is not realistic. Over the years I've actually grown to despise the word, especially from the professionals who do not live at my house...lol

 

[STRESSEDTOMAX]

Bunny - my difficult child does the exact same thing with decisions...he wants me to make them. They really sound a lot alike...wish I still lived on Long Island...lol. I also think that you have to look a little deeper for the triggers for these episodes. I agree that a lot of times, anxiety is at the bottom of it.

 

[keista]

Honestly, after I sat down and thought about it, I think that his behavior last night was brought on by his anxiety about this meet and whole "should he go, shouldn't he go" thing.

Is this a decision you're leaving up to him?

I used to do this with all non-essential things. I figured I was doing a good thing by allowing my kids to make their own decisions and be their own ppl. WRONG! At least for DD2 and she's my most neurotypical. I didn't even notice it, my sister did. The child couldn't even decide what to have for lunch and go into a tailspin. Dear sis pointed out this struggle to me (I though the child was just being difficult for difficult's sake). Children need parents to take the lead sometimes -whether they like it or not. So now what I do if offer them the chance to make the decision. If they can't do it in a reasonable amount of time, I tell them that I will decide and then the decision will be set in stone. My decision is usually accepted and stress goes away. Now it doesn't always work, I did say usually.

 

[HopeRemains]

Sounds like a very familiar scenario. (Except for the cussing, he doesn't do that anymore, thank goodness. But he's only 8 so time will tell...) The other day I asked difficult child to put his clean clothes I'd just folded into his dresser. His response? "You've got arms and legs, why don't YOU do it, lazy!" My jaw just about dropped onto the floor. After that the next few loads of laundry I made him fold his own clothes AND put them away.

I agree with you guys about the decision making. It's too much for difficult child sometimes. He also has a horrible time when he knows we are going somewhere fun. He starts acting very cocky and disrespectful. I don't really know why. Usually he ends up raging before we can get out the door and we all have to stay home. Last time, though, we just dropped him off at husband's brother's house and did the fun stuff without him. We'll see if that has an impact in the future. It's time that the whole family isn't punished because he can't get himself under control.