husband's hair-brained idea!

[Sue C]

husband informs me last night that he wants to tell Melissa that he will pay her first disorderly conduct ticket (which was reduced to $148) if she has a job by the due date of 2/14/06. She will then be responsible for the other disorderly conduct ticket ($280) and vandalism ticket ($249). Court date is 2/13/06 for those, and she could most likely get an extension to pay like she did on the first ticket.

She has been putting off applying for jobs. She only applied for one, but the computer or the company's website froze in the middle of the quiz, and it said you could not retake the quiz if you quit in the middle. And, of course, rather than trying to email someone or call to find out what to do, she said it. (and the company will not accept paper applications)

husband does agree with me that we will not pay on her 3 credit card bills. They will be late and whatever happens to her credit, so be it. But he does not want to see her not pay the $148 and go to jail. Now, I agree I do not want to see Melissa in jail, especially if she is in school at the time. And I would hate to see a jail record show up when she's applying for a job in the future.

I said let's at least make at a loan of the $148. husband says you know she won't be able to pay it back (or shall we say just WON'T), so don't worry about it. He says we'll just pay it.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/919Mad.gif

Sue

 

[hearthope]

Sue I understand what your husband is saying.
I have been the one in our house that thinks as your husband does. My husband would put his foot down and say no way, and I would always see that there was no way difficult child would pay it back.
I am not saying it is right, past experiences always come to mind and we seem to say it is easier to pay it than to go through all the hassle of trying to get difficult child to do the right thing. When it is all said and done my difficult child never does the right thing and we all end up in a war from the the hassle of trying to get him to pay.

I know in an ideal situation, we would have our kid's own up to their responsibilties and take care of their mistakes themselves so that they could learn from them.

But, sadly, the ideal situation is not what we are living in

 

[Sue C]

Hearthope -- Yep, husband says that there is no way Melissa could pay the money back because she owes so much other money, so there is no sense in trying to get it back. He has always told me that if I was going to loan anything to anyone to not expect it back--to consider it a gift.

I neglected to mention that husband said his motive in telling her he'll pay for the first ticket if she gets a job is because she has not been applying for jobs and she needs to have a job. Hmmmm. Incentive?

Sue

 

[hearthope]

Yes- Incentive. Hopefully she will grab the carrot.
I know how frustrating it is to try a get them to see the light.
But all we can do is try.

 

[PonyGirl]

Paying the 1st ticket of $148 as incentive for M to find a job is a good idea on the one hand. On the other hand, what will happen if she fails to find a job, and the other tickets don't get paid anyway?

Will you pay the other tickets? Will she go to jail if you don't?

What are your & husband's thoughts about this. I know you're taking it one thing at a time, but how about the rest of the story....and looking at worst-case. Does it make sense to pay now, and then have to face the same dilemma again in a month's time?

Tough spot. Hard questions, I know. (((Hugs))) to you my friend!

Peace

 

[Sue C]

PonyGirl -- Those are good questions! I don't know the answers now. I'd have to discuss this with- husband.

Actually, I can't believe this whole thing is happening. If she was going to get in trouble, why couldn't she have done this in high school or earlier?? She never had anything like this before. Part of me says why did the school police give her and her ex tickets for disorderly conduct for having an argument between themselves?? No one else was involved or got hurt. (I always thought disorderly conduct meant you were arguing with a policeman.) And she did not do the vandalism on purpose. She threw ex's phone and it happened to hit the window and broke it. She will have to pay the school to have it fixed. I guess I wonder why that had to be a vandalism ticket--I thought vandalism was something you purposely did.

I mean, I know she was wrong for arguing and for breaking the window. But she also got hurt in the second incident and went to the hospital. Part of me is saying why should you get a disorderly conduct ticket for arguing? I know lots of people have argued LOUDLY and not gotten tickets.

Yikes--I'm suddenly feeling sorry for Melissa for getting these tickets. :hammer:

Sue

 

[DammitJanet]

I would find out what happens if she doesnt pay the other tickets. I suspect that they will give her an extended time to pay them. That is what would happen here. You go in...they find you guilty...which if you pay the tickets IS ADMITTING GUILT!

You could go to court and fight the tickets and try to get her found Not Guilty. That way she wouldnt have to pay them. Chances are slim on that happening unless witnesses failed to show or a deal was worked out with the prosecutor about anger management or some sort of psychiatric care. That may be an avenue to explore if she would call the guy and explain that she has psychiatric problems and explodes and is attempting to seek help because of her past history with this abusive boyfriend. Of course, she would have to make restitution to the school and doing so before court would be a show of good faith.

Can you tell I have been thru this before...lmao.

 

[Suz]

Aw geez, I'm going to sound like hard-hearted Hannah again :tears: ...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/919Mad.gifDO NOT FEEL SORRY FOR MELISSA!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/919Mad.gif

Sue, go back and reread some of your previous posts. Reread Fran's reply where she reminded you that MELISSA IS NOT A VICTIM HERE!!!

I truly don't understand why/how you and husband were able to be so strong with Angela and are such pushovers with Melissa? I know that you've mentioned that it was easier to be strong with Angela because drugs were involved but Melissa's continuing irresponsibility and unacceptable behavior is potentially going to hurt her future, too.

You said ," why couldn't she have done this in high school or earlier??."

She did!

But in those days she acted out with you and husband and her boyfriends. I have been reading about these behaviors for years! She threw things at you and at the walls. She was disorderly. She vandalized things in your home. She screamed and hit and acted like a banshee.

The difference is that the same behavior in a public setting brings on tickets and fines and charges and court dates. The world does not tolerate those behaviors without consequences.

I know it is hard but Melissa still needs to learn these lessons. It is way past time for her to grow up and learn them.

Suz

 

[Abbey]

Go Suz...it's your birthday...go Suz... :bravo:

Great advice.

Abbey

 

[Abbey]

Sue,

I'm sorry for my last reply. I didn't mean it to be against you. I know you are doing the best you know. Heck...I'm no role model. You do what is in your heart and what is comfortable for you. If it is not...make a change.

Sorry...Abbey

 

[catwoman]

My experience with difficult child was always the same: anytime I bailed him out of something with the stipulation that he accept responsibility on some other issue, he NEVER came through, because he always knew I would take care of it anyway. It's the manipulation game.

 

[Sue C]

Janet -- Thanks for your advice. It would be good if Melissa would seek out help for her anger. We've told her again and again to go to the free school counseling, but she refuses. So there's not much hope there.

Suz -- I don't know why husband and I were strong with standing our ground and throwing Angela out of our house. I don't know why we are pushovers with Melissa. I do know it is partly because she is the baby in the family and so dependent on us, and we know she could not make it out in the world by herself. Angela was always very independent from little on. Anyway, what I meant by "why couldn't she (Melissa) have done this earlier" is getting in trouble and getting tickets. I was not prepared for this happening at age 21. I hope you see what I mean.

Suz & Abbey -- I feel like maybe I should not post anymore about my troubles with Melissa.

Catwoman -- I agree there is always manipulation.

Sue

 

[Fran]

Sue,in my humble opinion,none of us have any real answers of how to fix our kids. We all just want them to be productive,responsible adults with character. Some things we can't do. We can't force them to manage anger or can't show them how their self destructive behavior is at the root of their trouble. Somewhere in there,though, I have to believe we shouldn't feed the delusion that it is all someone else's fault.

If you want to pay the fines then do it but don't pretend it's all rationalized by the fact she was injured in the batte or the computer locked up. She isn't behaving in a way that shows responsibility or character. You don't want to feed it but if you want to help her over the obstacle(fines) then do it but understand it's not because she is an innocent victim.

The whole idea of her not getting a job because of her record isn't a bad idea. She shouldn't be allowed adult responsibility if she acts like a petulant 2 yr old. Her frustration level is so low that she would just throw a phone at a client who doesn't listen to her. I don't think she shouldn't be able to get a job but the point I'm making if she acts like a two year old she shouldn't expect the respect or paycheck of an adult.

As far as not posting because someone disagreed with you is your choice. The point of putting your child's behavior out on the forums is to get some other viewpoints. I don't believe Suz or Abbey were mean or unsupportive. Just frustrated that you see the same behavior and you rationalize it all as some external force causing the problem. (such as being the baby of the family) We all love you and have been there through all Angela's and Melissa's escapades.All your medical scares. Especially Suz and Abbey. They have tried hard to give back to the members and that includes you and me. If a different opinion is offensive you may want to ask yourself why. If it is that they are wrong,destructive or meanhearted then you probably shouldn't keep posting.
If it is because they see what's happening because they walked in your shoes and are trying to jump up and down (through words) to get your attention then maybe you should re read them and contemplate that maybe there is something that may be of value in their statements.

 

[Sunlight]

Sue,
I am sorry you have to go thru this time with your daughter. I hope things get better sooner rather than later. You know her best of all...if something has worked in the past with her, try that. sometimes we just have to let them learn from their mistakes as painful as it can be for us too.

Reaching out for support should not have to cause you even more pain. hope today is a better day, Sue!

 

[Sue C]

Fran -- I was a member of Mama Bear's Board which became the ODD Board, so I am an original member of this Board. I've always felt safe here. I tell you guys things my family and friends do not know. I know Suz and Abbey have always been here for me. I really do.

I am hurting right now from my situation with Melissa. If you recall, she did better after putting her in a private Christian school. She had her moments, but she was a lot better. She was better when we sent her off to college her first year which was 4-1/2 hours away. Summers she acted up again. When things were going well with her boyfriend, she was happy. Now she is sad and angry and takes it out on us. Heck, she's taking it out on herself by not applying for jobs when she knows she needs money.

I know husband and I are not handling the situation correctly with Melissa. I know many of you have walked in my shoes, but you don't know Melissa exactly. Angela put it recently, "Mom and Dad, Melissa will die out in the real world." Melissa is terribly dependent on us. She is emotionally immature. She is afraid to be home alone, so if we go somewhere, she leaves to go somewhere, too. The few--very few--times she remained home, she put on every light in the house and curled up on the couch to watch TV. She still sleeps on our bedroom floor (I know this infuriates some of you) because she is afraid someone is going to break into the house and kill her. I know she actually believes this. husband and I do think she has a mental problem such as perhaps bi-polar or something else. She was diagnosed with ODD and mild ADD years ago. She definitely has anger management problems. We tell her to seek out psychiatric help, but she will not. We cannot force her to.

Anyway, I waver back and forth between feeling like Melissa is at fault for the disorderly conduct ticket and vandalism ticket and for feeling sorry for her. Most of the time, I do not feel sorry for her....for anything. I know she brought these things on to herself.

However, I see other people post about their adult child going to court or jail and they are worried about it, and they get support here. I need support. OK, I'm in tears now and I hope husband does not walk into my office. (deep breath) OK, I don't just want a pat on the back and being told everything will be OK, but I guess I'm very emotional right now and need gentle guidance. Or maybe just an occasional hug.

I'm going through a rough time myself right now trying to find a part-time job.

Abbey -- I neglected to say in my other post that I realized you didn't mean to be mean to me.

Suz & Abbey -- I hope you will continue to be there for me and post responses to my posts. I know you feel like you are hitting your heads against a brick wall sometimes when you read my posts.

Janet -- Thanks for the support!

Here's hoping for a better day,
Sue

 

[Sunlight]

anyone who has had more than one child knows that parenting is not "one size fits all". what worked for angela may not help melissa at all. painful pasts with our kids, believe me, we have not forgotten.

none of us is a professional counselor. even the pros get frustrated when their clients do not take their advice. truth is, the advice may not be what is needed. sometimes all that is needed is pure simple support in letting the person posting know that they are heard. some advice may not be what is best for the situation.

I believe Sue loves her husband and they both want to protect and help their daughter in whatever way they can. Melissa seems to have issues of abandonment and dependency that have not been addressed. if she refuses help, she cannot be forced. so what is left?

sue and her husband can learn more about abandonment issues. perhaps they need to be even more reassuring to melissa that while they will not protect her from the consequences of breaking the law, they will always love her and that their love cannot be lost forever.

melissa is raging because she is afraid. she has been lied to or left behind by someone she needed to depend on. she needs to know she will not be abandoned or left unloved and alone. she seeks companionship.

her boyfriend left her. she reacted by raging because she could not stop it. now she is depressed because she has no one else to love her but her parents. even that may be confusing for her. she knows she is old enough to be more independent but she does not see how she can get this way.

sue, I would read more about abandonment issues and dependency behavior. I will post some internet resources to learn more about that. you also may want to seek professional advice on how to cope with her or help her even if she is unwilling. someone may be able to give you hints on how to react to her.

http://www.newliving.com/issues/nov_2003/articles/abandon.html

http://mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doctor&id=526&cn=8

 

[hearthope]

"A SAFE TO PLACE TO LAND"



We are all at different places in our journey of life

We react to things differently that happen to us, many things play a part in our reactions.
Our kids may do something that triggers a memory of something we did, and we soak up the memory and analize how we reacted in the same situation. and what was the outcome of our actions
Maybe there was someway our parents reacted to us and we vowed long ago not to repeat this on our own children
The memories of our children at a happy time in our past linger and play havoc on our emotions
Then we study so much information about the right way to handle situations that we get bogged down and confused about what actions to take in different situations

Our history of how we were raised, what our parents ingrained into us of what is right and what is fair, our on childhood memories,what struggles we faced in adulthood and in marriage, all the things play a role in who we are today and how our decisions are made
No one else knows where we are on our path. No one knows when we have fallen down and are trying to stand back up.

I am thankful to have a safe place to land when I feel broken and shattered

 

[witzend]

[ QUOTE ]
Angela put it recently, "Mom and Dad, Melissa will die out in the real world."

[/ QUOTE ]

That seems a little extreme. Do you really believe that she can't adapt?

We all make choices as to what to do to help our children grow up. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes the choice is bailing them out, and sometimes it's letting them go.

I guess my concern is that bailing her out under the circumstances seems to be uncomfortable to you. Is there any way to move forward from this?

 

[judi]

I have not read thru the other posts (got the grandkids here). However, we have been in the same boat with our son. I did pay one ticket several years ago for our son. However, I found out that with everything he has been charged with: including underage drinking, littering, possession of jack rocks, and disorderly conduct, after he did the community service and time passed on court supervision, everything is dropped. He actually has no convictions on his sheet! He had to have a background check for a job app and that is how he found out.

 

[SunnyFlorida]

Can Melissa do community service to repay her debt?