i'm learning....... slowly

[Jena]

hi

so i had therapy today....... we talked about easy child alot. winds up she called me from a friends phone while i was in therapy. today she was supposed to come by to get the medication for her problem, and well i told her 5 o'clock. she never showed, we waited till 5:20 yet than we had to go i had therapy appointment.

she yelled at me on phone, cursed at me, hung up on me that i dare leave the house and not leave the medication for her.

so long story short therapist made me investigate why i'm continuing to enable her, make same decisions as before and overall am not achieving my goal which is to get her better, and maybe get her home in time.

she said yup she should of gone to health dept for her issue, she has to learn the consequences of her actions and you saved the day again and guess what she abused you for it.

she said her birthday is sunday as well as mother's day. she said send her an email stating you'd like her to spend day with you and corrine yet there are rules to it, they'll be no cursing or yelling at me or difficult child, etc. also she said do not buy her a gift. the gift is the day.

this wil be hard for me. she said she's eating her cake and whatever that saying is. best of both worlds. i'm still saving her as she chose to move in with this other mom. taht means no cell phone, no birthday gifts, no nothing.

so i'm asking for some power because this will be hard for me to do on sunday. i have a double hitter mother's day and her birthday. it wont' be easy. she def. will come i think i could be wrong because she thinks they'll be a gift. i said and when she blows up? she said well that's when you say listen you have chosen to live with another mother, it isn't my place to buy you a birthday gift it's her place. this was your choice not ours.

oh boy let's see how i do with that one.

so she said you have moments of total clarity yet when your up till 4 a.m. flipping out with anxiety can't sleep keeping your husband up who you have rubbing your back at 4 a.m.to help get you down you need to disengage now.

words to live by, disengage. you've all been saying it. i know, well here goes. she sadi whatever easy child has against you it doesnt' justify her abusing you as she is at all ever. i said yup i agree. her line to me taht stuck was why do you keep making the same decisions that are leaving you in the same spot?

 

[ski10]

Hi Jena,

Your therapist has some wise words, now if we could only put them in to action, lol

I totally understand how you're feeling about Sunday and the b'day gift, knowing your child is going to blow up, the anxiety just knowing it's going to happen, the sensible side of me would say, right..I'm doing the right thing, be strong, so difficult to do but I'm getting to the point of thinking if I were to give in it's no help, it's hell either way! might as well be strong and hope it works....not sure if that makes any sense, I'm rambling! but I know how you feel.

I realize I have been enabling my daughter too, depends on the day but...she will turn everything around to make it seem I'm in the wrong, gets so rude and yes downright nasty sometimes, then I start questioning myself, all the time I'm thinking...."I'm the mom, yet I feel like the kid!!" honestly sometimes I'm pleased when she goes out the door, peace! Love her to death but....AGHHH!

and, this is all over her boyfriend!

I am very new here and thank god I found this site, I'm learning threre are so many parents who are having so many sleepness nights, anxiety through the roof, crying, going over and over in their heads what to do and feeling 1/2 crazy...to name a few. My head hurts and my brain feels as though it's splitting in two, if that's even possible.
If you figure out how to get a good nights sleep please let me know?!!!! take care..

 

[Shari]

Jen's new mantras, courtesy of Fran and Dr Phil...

easy child does something stupid, you say to yourself (her, too, if you want) - 'do to get'.

easy child does something stupid and you feel that urge to help her, you say to yourself - 'so, Jen, how's that been workin out?'

And reminder, your daughter is days from being an adult, like it or not. Getting *her* better has to be *her* goal. It can't be yours.

Good luck. Like your therapist.

 

[AnnieO]

I like your therapist, too.

I've been trying with the "do to get", myself. It makes me crazy when the other parent gives to keep the peace, while I sacrifice to FEED us.

 

[Marcie Mac]

Jen, if she is looking for her birthday present, instead of comming back with the comment "well, you chose to have another mother and now its her place to buy you a present" just wish her happy birthday and if she asks about her present, tell her you used the money for her present on the doctor and medication, and leave it at that.

I know you are distraught over her choices and very hurt, and rightfully so. But snarky comments only serve to work on widening whats now a little chip in your relationship - you don't want to ensure it becomes a hugh honking gap over time. From what I have read, her leaving had nothing to do with her wanting "another mother"

In hindsight I wish therapy was common back in my day-things might have been different with my mother and I - both of us may have learned the art of "effective communication". It started with a few barbs aimed to hurt and control on her end that had really nothing to do with whatever we were in current disagreement about because she was never able to honestly address her feelings about me leaving at 17 in the first place, so it festered with hurtful remarks, and on my end, my attitude was #$#$ it, am not dealing with your negativity on my choices, my life, and ended up having limited contact.

Not comparing you to my mother, she is one of a kind LOL. If your po'd and feel used and don't want to buy her a present, just say it and don't use someother comment to convey it, because over time, you don't want that to become the norm in communicating (in my humble opinion)

Marcie

 

[CrazyinVA]

I know you are distraught over her choices and very hurt, and rightfully so. But snarky comments only serve to work on widening whats now a little chip in your relationship - you don't want to ensure it becomes a hugh honking gap over time.

I agree. One of the important lessons of the detachment process for me, was learning to keep my mouth shut, and remaining matter-of-fact in my exchanges with either of my difficult children. One of my many books calls it the "dispassionate cop" attitude (similar to the way a police officer might react to a lawbreaker ranting and raving at them). It's not always easy, especially because difficult children are masters at button-pushing. Sometimes, I fail miserably. But when I'm able to adopt that attitude, things de-escalate more quickly, difficult children begin to (slowly) lessen their "attacks" on me, and I walk away with my sanity and blood pressure in check.

That being said, it doesn't mean you can't make those comments to us, we get it ;-)

 

[Star*]

First off? You were up at WHAT TIME? with what? anxiety? Over this? Girlfriend! Seriously!!!!! ?????!!!!!!!!

If difficult child child were not your child - and she did all the things to you she has done? Would you loose sleep over it? OMG. I think if there were rules of detachment? The first one would need to be - pretend your kid is NOT your kid, because when they treat you like absolute crud, wipe their feet on you like a door mat, and choose - CHOOSE to treat you like a dishrag they wipe their hiney with? You shouldn't treat them with hugs and kisses and hearts and candy and birthday presents and mwah mwha mwah what can I do to fix your life sweet child? PHOOEY. You treat me like smackadoodle? I can be the adult here and I'm not going to fling poo in your face, but I'm sure not going to kiss your butt. YOU TREAT ME BAD? I'm NOT TREATING YOU AT ALL.

Next - And I want you to think about this - since you seem to CHOOSE to be up at 4AM - I mean unless you like the attention of back rubs that lead to that TV commercial bathtub 'spontaneous' time - Know what I mean?? (not my business) but SINCE WHEN??? AT ANYTIME.....EVER....EVER........EVER.....name me one time......(I'll wait) DID WORRYING and fretting, and twisting your hands, and sighing, and crying, and sobbing, and being anxiety ridden - EVER change the outcome of a situation? EVER? DID worrying about your child till 4AM - EVER make her better? Did telling her "I was up till 4AM worring about you and crying, throwing up, sobbing into MY pillow!" make her go "OMG Mommy I'm so sorry, I'll change and never do that again?!" UGH pleaaaaaase. No. NEVER. If it did? The first tear you shed would have prevented her from EVER repeating bad behaviors. SO - WHO is all this anxiety about NOT giving this ungrateful brat a BIRTHDAY present HURTING? ........Oh yes that's right - the child who moved out - called you names, demands you jump through firely hoops, calls someone else MOTHER - and tells you to stick it where the sun can't shine, doesn't obey you, disrupts your family, makes living with your other children harder by her absense, isn't setting a great role model for her siblings, doesn't HELP you around the house because you are too sick and weak to do housework, yet demands money out of you - and STILL YOU WANT TO BUY HER A GIFT? OMG if you do I swear I'll drive up there and personally put my foot in your .......ice cream cake.

You want her to know you mean business? You want her to know that SHE IS NOT THE QUEEN OF THE WORLD? You want her to KNOW what it's like to HURT someones feelings to the point that she shouldn't DO IT AGAIN?"

DO NOT get her a cake, do NOT get her a present - and TAKE MARCIES advice ........it's GOLDEN - ABSOLUTE PLATINUM - TELL HER _ I'm angry, I feel USED - you made your choices on where you wanted to live - TODAY IS MOTHER's DAY - and I'm spending it with the children that chose to honor me as MOTHER. I didn't buy you a birthday present because I just didn't want to - you've been mean, ugly and people like that don't get presents from me. When you start treating me nice? Maybe I'll have a reason to celebrate you. Until then - Not likely.

UGH -
AND MEAN IT. YOU STAND THERE - LIKE YOU ARE LOOKING THROUGH HER. Do you know how many holidays I had to do this with DUDE in order to get it through his thick skull that the world did NOT revolve around HIM and that there were OTHER people in it? LOADS and LOADS.......but by the time he was L's age? MY TEARS HAD DRIED UP because if they see you cry? THEY OWN YOU.

And my Mom and Marcies Mom probably could have been sisters. There is ABSOLUTELY no gray area with My Mom. If I acted ONE time with MY mom in my LIFE like L acts with you? I would have been out for holidays for YEARS. And she wouldn't have cared if I had "problems" or not. Trust me - I had problems. lol

Hugs -

 

[Jena]

hi haven't read all of this, yet therapist said to be sure not to bring up dr. and fee that i paid and use the one liner she suggested. she said it's non combative and argumentative. it just states fact. i'll read more later. thanks for responses. difficult child has state testing today.

hate being up at 4a.m. by the way and trust me not for sex!!! lol. i just wanted to sleep. i don't do that often or at all since it's happened i had a nightmare and just woke up and couldn't get back.

school called today said she isnt' graduating. kinda figured that.

 

[Star*]

Well you know what? If she isnt' living in your house? Isn't graduating? She isn't going to college. Isn't YOUR problem.

 

[1905]

Don't even mention gift...if she does, ask her where your Mother's Day gift is. If she isn't hitting rock bottom at this point, you need to move the rock bottom up to where she is,....no more anything. Of course you and difficult child are happy to see her for some pleasant conversations. Don't engage her, you'll never win because she won't see reason. I know how hard it is not to engage, but you don't want to set yourself up for more abuse from her, and she seems to love that. It's totally not ok for her to behave that way. If she starts her nonsense, just say, "This conversation is over." Say that in the most calm voice ever, repeat. Also if she starts asking you a bunch of questions over and over, tell her the answer 1 time and then say, "I answered that already". every time she asks.

 

[Jena]

star i know thanks my friend...... i'll get there you know i will...... i just trip a little in the beginning lol

if i know it'll help her in the long run i can do anything. so nope no gift, she wants to spend day no problem, i'll get what i can out of it than when she blows i should say if projecting isnt' healthy either than she'll be removed or we'll remove ourselves. i can def. do this.....

she chose this not I. i did for her for years my job and also above and beyond. tired of the beat down. love her yet love her enough to shut her down now to help her get it.

yes my therapist rocks. yet once again she's become a friend. i swear to god this happens with each therapist i see, my old therapist from years ago we're now friends and facebook and do lunch. i told her if easy child ever does come to therapy she'll have to find a new therapist.

she sat there yesterday and said i can't tell you what to do..... i said be that ONE therapist that simply anti's up and puts it out there. than she said ok i'll go there and she said what she did. i said i'm tired of the mirroring b.s. just spit it out!!

 

[Marcie Mac]

Hmmm..am just a little stunned at your therapist telling you to tell her "she said well that's when you say listen you have chosen to live with another mother, it isn't my place to buy you a birthday gift it's her place" Sorry, no offense meant, but I just don't get why she would even suggest to say that unless I missed a post along the way - she didn't want to follow the rules, and left - can't remember anything about her wanting to go off and find another mother cause you just didn't fit the bill.

To me, that is a very childish statement she is suggesting you say, and has nothing to do with the issue at hand regarding a birthday gift and how to handle the situation when being asked about one. Setting boundaries is fine, having firm rules is fine, but that is a "My feelings are hurt and I am going to make you feel the same" kinda statement. I understand you feel she has abandandoned you and feeling that way is perfectly ok, but to me without benefit of a degree , I just can't see where that kind of advise would be helpful.

Maybe you AND she should have some therapy together - with a third party mediator and just put all the feelings out there to be discussed in a fair and equitable way.

 

[tiredmommy]

Jena, looking at the big picture, I'm very concerned that you become so chummy with your therapist(s). It blurs the boundaries of professionalism and will get in the way of objective help. I think you need to work less at making her a new friend and more about moving along in therapy.

 

[CrazyinVA]

Jena, I'm confused. In another post, you said that you were going to look for a new therapist because yours was "jerking [you] around," and that your therapists kept "dropping" you. Now you say you've become friends with all the therapists you've seen? Is this a new therapist?

At any rate, I hope this therapist can help you through this stuff with easy child. Detachment takes lots of practice, and having someome to work with who's well acquainted with codependency and enabling issues is invaluable.

 

[Steely]

I am with Marcie I absolutely would not throw out a barb like "you chose to live with another mother". That is just baiting her.

I would, however, arrange to have "lunch" with "my daughter" on mother's day and her birthday and try to bond with her while being as neutral and detached as a healthy mom can be. Try to emulate a healthy relationship with her. Comment on the weather, the politics, the sports, etc. Some of the best conversations I have with Matt is over politics, actually. His mind intrigues me in this area, and I think vice a versa. Our second best line of conversation is animal advocacy - a topic we are both mutually passionate about. These are adult conversations that have nothing to do with his drama, and I think it is very healthy. Find ones that you and your daughter can share.

If she asks for a present, simply say - "I have given you one sweetie - you and me time - this far outweighs any material gift I could possibly give you". And tell her you love her. (Of course if she becomes snotty then abruptly end the entire event - but my guess is she will respond positively to genuine love and attention.

 

[Jena]

i have to really take all of this into account, what the therapist said etc. and make some think time on how i can handle this the best possible way to avoid blow ups, difficult child getting upset by it etc.

i took easy child's therapist because the one i had was giving me schedulign issues and price issues........so easy child's therapist knows the situation so well and also she's only fifty dollars a visit right up my alley.

as far as the friendship thing goes....... it's happened a few times when i was completed with therapy i wound up becoming not close friends with the therapist yet friends. i have worked though with this to change the dynamic. because easy child's therapist was her therapist and her and i spoke freely about easy child just on quick moments via text etc. so it took some mental work to just be me in therapy and not the advocate for easy child. make sense? i could care less about friendships with therapists?? lol..... it's just happened twice before. odd yet happened.

i like the the gift is this day thing also..... she's soo used to material things. we dont overdue it yet face it what kid isnt'? when i was a kid if i got one doll for xmas i was so grateful. these kids you can give them your limb and their like can i have the other one???

i'm nervous about it, weird had a good day yesterday all around and yet last night sleep issues again. stupid. i guess my minds clicking on tmrw's doctor appointment too neurologist tmrw.

after tmrw i'll sit and think about all of this, you guys what your thoughts are...... what she said the therapist. i can see how that's a bit tit for tat sort of. i just want to handle it the best way for the best outcome that still very much may not happen. she's one angry girl. i'll be the bad mom now for not giving her a gift. yet truth is if she benefits from that on ony level than so be it!

 

[KFld]

I think spending the day together would be a nice gift for both of you, but just let her know in advance that since it's mothers day you are expecting to have a nice pleasant day together and if she starts acting up, walk away.

As far as the sleeping thing, I go through that once in awhile with difficult child. I'll do great during the day, but wake up in the middle of the night and things keep going over and over and over in my mind. Try things like saying the serenity prayer or some of the different alanon slogans, like let go and let god. I keep repeating one over and over so it replaces everything else my mind was worrying about.

 

[Jena]

aw i'm sorry it stinks right?? we do so much during the day at night we should be able to just decompress at least while sleeping there should be peace!! LOL

as far as sunday goes i'm pretty sure it'll just be difficult child and myself. easy child has left the state apparentley and i def. will not be contacting her on sunday or beforehand.

such is life....... onward and upward