In a totally new place and need perspective? Cedar? Anyone?

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I spoke to the Psychiatrist for the last time. It went well. I think he expected that I would change my mind.

We spoke for much of the call about my health issues and my health insurance.

I almost second guessed myself, because he did not offer any validation for quitting.

I told him this:

I feel much better especially the last few days. I believe the antidepressant is working.

I feel very good about the place my son is at. I am very firm I will not be helping him in the way that I was.

I feel more security in my relationship with M. More support and closer. And more confidence in him and the relationship.

I feel about myself and my life that it is a half glass full. I do not feel like my situation is so desperate that I have to throw money at it, to do anything because I am in such bad shape. It is two years since my Mother died and I accept I will grieve her and my life as I require.

Actually, I think I will benefit from living within my means, and assessing from strength what my needs are. That that would be the best thing for me. You, know I earn very little from my pensions when I do not work. And the fees I am paying you represent money that I cannot afford to pay. I am not saying I do not need therapy or that I will not return to it. But I want to make that decision by assessing myself from a position of strength...not desperation. Because in reality, I feel I will have more benefit right now in paring back and controlling my expenditures. And putting into place concrete changes. That I can make.

I feel a sense of equilibrium. I want to build on that.

So then I said: Can you understand what I am saying?

He responded: Yes I can understand but....

I said, what I am asking is not if you understand my words but whether you can understand my position and the validity of it...

And he hedged.

So it felt undermining.

And I said: Can you see in me that I have changed? Can you hear the energy in my voice?

Him: Well, yes. The last few weeks.

So, for a few seconds I felt weak (and actually still do, a little bit.)

And I ended it: If I decide at some point that it would benefit me to return would you consider accepting me as a patient?

Him: Of course. Certainly.
Me: Thank you.
Him: I wish you the best.
Me: Thank you again.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Copa, I think you stood strong.

And, of course, I feel that any therapy you get should probably come from a woman. I would never go to any sort of therapy with a man. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't think they "get" women like a women does.

Nice going!!!!
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
And I said: Can you see in me that I have changed? Can you hear the energy in my voice?

Him: Well, yes. The last few weeks.

So, for a few seconds I felt weak (and actually still do, a little bit.)
I am getting angry now.

Let me try to put it into words. I think he sees his role as speaking for what is reality. Like trying to tell me how impaired my son is. Even though he does not know him.

I think he sees me as half glass empty. And that when I put him on the spot by saying, don't you see me changing...I am stronger....he did not want to say....because he sees his job as seeing me through clear eyes....which is not with hope or optimism. But through doubt and caution.

I can see his point of view, but how can this be helpful? If I can always go back...how can he see that I lose to try by myself for awhile? How can he not vote for this?
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
And he hedged.

So it felt undermining.

And I said: Can you see in me that I have changed? Can you hear the energy in my voice?

Him: Well, yes.

The psychiatrist has a vested interest in keeping you undermined, Copa.

I think you are wise and courageous.

It sounds as though this session went well. You were very brave. Remember this man has been trained to keep patients, well...patients.

You are seeing you through his eyes I think, Copa.

How do you think he handled this last session?

What words from him would have left you feeling stronger, today?

That is what matters here, Copa.

What do you wish you had heard him say?

We are not yet in the habit of kindness to ourselves, or of trusting ourselves or of believing we are meant to heal. This will come for us in time, this understanding that we are meant to love and be loved; and we are meant to be very, very happy.

These other sad years have been a mistake.

We are healing.

It was time to let the psychiatrist go.

Good job.

:hugs:

You are brave and strong.

And we are right here.

:choir:


I wholeheartedly agree with Serenity and IC that a woman therapist, someone committed to DBT, will find you growing stronger and more centered than the psychiatrist was able to accomplish.

I was more able to trust in a group therapy setting.

All women; no men.

You can do this, Copa. You never needed the psychiatrist.

Cedar
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
I am getting angry now.

Like me, and like Serenity too Copa, you were hard wired from the beginning to meet the challenges that come to all of us. You can do this. There is no need for anger; there is nothing to fear. Fear is the mind-killer, as nerfherder and Frank Herbert remind us. A decision has been made; action has been taken.

You are healing.

And we are moving quickly, now.

Bless him and let go, Copa. It helped me to repeat: "Pray for their peace, and therein, find our own."

Peace, Copa.

Determined intent to heal.

Nothing more.

Nothing less.

I think he sees his role as speaking for what is reality. Like trying to tell me how impaired my son is. Even though he does not know him.

Here is the thing, Copa: He knows only what you tell him. From what you tell him, he constructs your reality and gives it back essentially unchanged.

That's the problem I have with the way he is doing what he is doing. There are a thousand ways to see all things, from the beauty and comfort in a cloudy day to the scent of fresh coffee. Some of us detest cloudy days. That is because of what we tell ourselves about cloudy days. Some of us love the scent of fresh coffee. Some of us detest the smell of coffee. Again, we think as we do because of what that scent, or those clouds, awaken in us; it's a habit, to think as we do, Copa.

It has nothing to do with actual coffee, or with the weather on any given day.

It has everything to do with how we think about coffee, and about cloudy days.

Those we trust to help us see differently will not effectively help us if they are focused on how we already see. Those who help us effectively will be those who can travel with us as we learn that we are the ones defining our realities.

When we can do that, when we can know that one, simple thing ~ everything, every smallest thing, changes.

We are present. We begin to see through our own eyes and never again do we consent to see ourselves through the eyes of our abusers. This is hard work. We know what we need to heal. Other methods of healing are not working, so we stop doing that.

This person has not been able to help you to see through your own eyes, Copa.

Nothing to do with him. He may be a fine man. But he is only human, like everyone, here.

You did the right thing I think, Copa.

***

Here is another way to see:

The core issue of our abuse is that we were hurt into believing someone else knew everthing better than we did. The right to self-definition was beat out of us, physically or metaphorically. That is what we are reclaiming, now.

The right to define ourselves. The right to trust that life is a crapshoot sometimes, and that good and bad things happen to us all.

We are damaged; not defective.

Like everyone does, we will make good choices and bad choices. Trusting ourselves means we are okay with that. That's all it means. That we are flexible, open; that we are not afraid to rest in the moment, fully present to it.

What trusting ourselves does not mean is that we will feel confident with our choices.

We are learning to think for ourselves, now. That's a little scary, because we were brought up never, ever to do that.

But here's the thing: We know the difference between love and hatred. So, we know how to guide ourselves, then.

It will be scary. We have been hurt into believing we are inept. We have been taught Copa, that we cannot trust ourselves to define our own realities. But just look what they taught us, instead! And just look who we are discovering our teachers to have been.

Mean. Really mean people.

Huh.

We did not know that important thing.

So, this is a legitimate quest we have undertaken, here. We are coming through it beautifully.

We are very brave. The scariest part was the beginning. We did not know then, whether we would be retraumatizing ourselves or healing.

We are healing.

You did the right thing, Copa.

It will only be scary for a little while.

The psychiatrist? Was like the mother chicken that little dragon imprinted on. And all that stupid chicken could see was that the dragon that came out of that egg that was so different to start with ~ that big, shining from within, rainbow colored egg ~ just kept not being a good chicken.

And the beautiful, snowy white chicken whispered and whispered into the little dragon's ear all the ways she was not a good chicken.

And that's how the little dragon grew up. And her feathers never did come in, and she felt so badly that she had beautiful iridescent scales, and she never once knew they were beautiful, and were meant to protect her, when she breathed fire.

Which she also did.

And puffs of smoke, that the little dragon tried so hard to hide.

So, the beautiful dragon, the fire in her heart a reflection of the roaring spirit within (that she also felt so terribly embarrassed about) began to soar, as dragons are meant to do. The beautifully fierce dragon felt so wrong, felt so badly that the beautiful, snowy white mother was not happy with her.

The little dragon just felt so...green.


Like Kermit, in a way.

And it was not easy for her to be green, either.

She may have spent some time believing that the problem here was that she had been a frog all along, and not a chicken, at all.

Frogs are green; she was green, too.

No matter how she tried to hide her dragonhood away, she would soar; she would breathe living fire; she would expel little puffs of smoke at the most inopportune times.

So. Not a frog either, then.

So when she grew up, the confused dragon found someone to help her become a better chicken. And what her helping professional, shielding his eyes from the flashing iridescence of the dragon's shining scales, told the beautiful dragon was that he would help her figure out how to be a better chicken. Which is, to be fair to the helping professional, what she had asked him to do.

So, they discussed and discussed, all the reasons the dragon was defective; all the reasons why she was not, after all, a good enough chicken.


And neither the dragon nor the helping professional could figure out why it wasn't working.

So, both blamed it on the dragon.

***

Unless they are God (or my new mom, Ben Carson :O) Copa, psychiatrists are just human beings too, like everyone here. He can never teach you how to be that chicken, Copa.

You are a dragon.

That's the problem here.

No one ever taught you dragons are beautiful. But more importantly, no one taught you that, unless the dragon believes in herself as she is, she will spend all the precious time of her life mourning the very true fact that she finds the chicken reality constraining; that in fact, this whole chicken business just isn't working for her.

One of the secrets the dragon harbors has to do with roosters.

Their feathers are iridescent too, like the dragon's own scales. So, once she figured out she wasn't a frog after all, the dragon thought those fierce, pretty roosters might be able to help her figure out how to be a better chicken.

All they could teach the beautiful young dragon was what they knew: she was not a rooster.

What they could not know, the roosters, is that not only was the dragon not a rooster...she was not even a chicken.

She was a dragon.

Knowing two things for sure by the time she was grown (that though she was green, she was not a frog, and that, though she was iridescent, she was not a rooster, either...the young dragon concluded she did not know who the Hell she was and sought out a second helping professional.

Another rooster.

***

Regarding your son, Copa? Whether he is or is not impaired, the issue here is how to guide son to the rich center of his own life.

That is the issue.

Your son is working. He is learning how to be responsible to his life. Son is doing well, for today. If something that is not good happens, you will be there. We cannot keep seeing them in the ways we did when they were little boys. They are men. They need us to let them be dragons, too.

***

Copa, I think Julia Cameron's The Artist's Way at Work will be beneficial as you come through and reclaim this layer of self. Every chapter speaks to the dragon's learning and terror and triumph as she rises from the fog of unknowing and into self definition. There are nine dragons; nine stages of transformation, every one of them requiring determination and courage, every level scarier and more dangerous than the last.

I love this book, for us. For me, and for Serenity, too. Maybe, we should each get a copy and go through it here together, linking the dragon's challenges and risings to events in our own lives as we go forward with our own transformations.

What do you think about that, Serenity and IC and nerfherder and anyone reading along?

97944.jpg


If you haven't read Shogun, I suggest that as well. The concepts of duty and strength, of bravery and personal pride are at the heart of this book. Of the spiritual steel that results in the beauty of a shining, perfectly balanced sword.

Shogun.jpg


You are meant to claim your strength, Copa. So are Serenity and I. Strength, kindness, honor; the wonder of believing love is a real thing, and of the power in it.

Those are the things that were taken from us.

Images of bravery.

That is the imagery we need, to heal, Copa.

And the Rocky imagery, and the imagery of Joe Friday, because this really is a hard thing we are doing. And the Wizard of Oz imagery, because the witch's castle is scary, and all we have to do this thing are ourselves and each other.

But we are doing good work, and we are coming through it so well.

Cedar
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
He knows only what you tell him. From what you tell him, he constructs your reality and gives it back essentially unchanged.
I understand, Cedar. Nothing is gained to give up strength anymore to question either him or myself.

But I did bring that up to him several times, that very point: You only see my son through the filter that is me. My limits, my worries and fears.

That changed nothing, to him. After all, he is the seat of authority and knowing, not me. It will always be that way.

When my son called today (did you see my new thread?) he was happy. He has been working 6 days a week now for almost a month. He said his working hard feels natural to him.

That was all I ever wished for (except for his health and maybe that he make a nice relationship). Happy. Productive.

The Psychiatrist was missing the point. To scare me accomplished nothing. It felt like he wanted to rub my face in the limits of my son.

I will buy the artist's way at work. But first, embarrassingly, I will read the artist's way, which I have meant to read but have not. I would like to go through the the former book, together, as you suggest.

I read Shogun about 35 years ago, I think. It is time to read it again. I loved it as much as any other book I have ever read. I think about it as an old friend. Thank you, Cedar.

PS I love your dragon stories. They so fit.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Cedar, why do you not write this dragon story into a children's book? If I develop as an artist I could maybe do the illustrations for you. Some day.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Well, I am in a tiff with the moderators.

I just wrote that I will no longer post anymore on this board except selectively. I guess I will be restricting myself to posting only on FOO threads and to posting on my own threads.

It stems from a new thread yesterday where a woman got very angry and insulting. I was one of the posters. The thread has since been withdrawn.

I took it upon myself to write to runaway bunny in a sort of self-critique in light of the recently posted guidelines. Even though I believed my post on that thread was entirely appropriate. In my post to runaway bunny, I took responsibility for being extra careful about where I come from and what I say.

I had mentioned to the mother that since all of her children were minors, she could be held responsible for their care, not her teen daughter who she seemed to be holding responsible.)

I received a kind and thoughtful response from runaway bunny, who said she was forwarding my post to the other moderators (without my consent.)

Then I got this response that troubled me.

I will not be putting myself in this position again.
 
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Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Then I got this response that I felt to be blaming and critical from another moderator. She took the opportunity to, I felt, chide and rebuke me....seeming to criticize me for presenting myself as a professional. Which is the last thing I want to do. On this board I am a parent. A very flawed one, at that.

I am upset by this.

I will not be putting myself in this position again.

I would do the same, Copa.

I am so sorry.

Cedar
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
I received a kind and thoughtful response from runaway bunny, who said she was forwarding my post to the other moderators (without my consent.)

Then I got this response that I felt to be blaming and critical from another moderator. She took the opportunity to, I felt, chide and rebuke me....seeming to criticize me for presenting myself as a professional on this board. Which is the last thing I want to do. On this board I am a parent. A very flawed one, at that.

You have not presented yourself as other than a parent, Copa.

I am worried about SWOT, Cedar. How can we find her?

We will have to PM her, Copa. I know of no other way to reach her.

I am so sorry all this happened. How terrible for all of us; not just the three of us, but every one of us, here.

Cedar
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I PM Serenity for us, Copa.

The moderator should not have done that.

Cedar
Cedar, I do not know if they DID anything. It is just that Serenity has disappeared since that thread came to their attention (actually I reported it because the woman became abusive.)

Never in a million years did I think they could of or would have turned it against us.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
I am receiving a message that I do not have permission to view this page or to quote posts, Copa.

Cedar

Well, obviously that one went through. The quote I had included did not come through.

So, huh.

I went out and back in. Everything seems to be working. Maybe just a temporary glitch, then.
 
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