Pregnant daughter update, dealing with family judgement

[SeekinghopeNZ]

Hi everyone,

I hope you're all starting the day with renewed strength. I wanted to update you on my 21-year-old daughter (L), who has a High Conflict Personality and is 26 weeks pregnant. When I first posted, my husband and I were overwhelmed and had to decide whether to take her in. Your encouragement and advice on detachment were invaluable, helping us see that we would be "profoundly under her control" if we didn't detach.

We told L that we loved her but she couldn't live with us. Instead, she needed to work with support services to find a solution. L lives in another country, a 4-hour flight away, with the father of her child and his mother. The relationship is unstable, and she's fully dependent on them. Social workers are helping her seek funding for supported living.

We've also found similar services here, offering free care and support, but she refused because she "doesn't want to live with random people." We believe it's best for her to stay in Australia and navigate her relationship with the father.

Adding to the stress, my sister lives in the same city as L. For 8 months, L made no contact with her, living a chaotic life. When I informed my sister, she made hurtful comments like "I would never do this to my daughter" and "you can't just abdicate responsibility."

I recently received a pre-diabetes diagnosis, and my doctor advised me to reduce stress . I wrote to my sister and brother, explaining detachment and asking for their understanding. My sister responded kindly but still felt compelled to get involved. She met L for lunch, gave her baby gifts, and soon began receiving emotional messages from L.

Despite my advice to keep her distance, my sister felt obligated to help (she is getting her masters in Social Work specializing in family violence so she is victim-focused and deeply concerned about L and her "vulnerability" . Last night, L called her 10 times from the hospital, fearing early labor. The father and his mother were there, but L wanted my sister to come and make them leave. My sister felt she had no choice but to go and could not understand me when I said she did have a choice. I understand the need to go the hospital - but I can see right through the play to get my sister onside to make the father leave (dramatic, manipulative, divisive and overly enmeshed).

I explained that this was not a healthy response, but my sister got emotional, saying she couldn’t believe I thought her helping was making things worse. She kept saying "I didn't ask for this, she is YOUR DAUGHTER" and "you are looking after yourself but who is caring for her". I love my sister and we have a close relationship, but all I can see is this rift starting between us because of someone else's chaos. I don't know how we can come to some kind of shared place.

 

[ksm]

It's too bad that your sister hasn't learned about healthy boundaries 101. If you are in the hospital, all you have to do is tell the nursing staff you don't want visitors.

In a way, I'd. I'ove to have a sibling who loved my child enough to want to be involved. Who tried to help. Who knew about personality disorders. I think telling your sister how much you appreciates all that she is trying to do. That you have tried to help your daughter and you know how hard it is to be in the place that she is being put in. And, that if you become aware of a true emergency, you would notify her or the authorities immediately .

Please take care of yourself, your physical and mental health...you can't control your daughter or your sister... hugs. Ksm

 

[ANewLife4Me]

Hi everyone,

I hope you're all starting the day with renewed strength. I wanted to update you on my 21-year-old daughter (L), who has a High Conflict Personality and is 26 weeks pregnant. When I first posted, my husband and I were overwhelmed and had to decide whether to take her in. Your encouragement and advice on detachment were invaluable, helping us see that we would be "profoundly under her control" if we didn't detach.

We told L that we loved her but she couldn't live with us. Instead, she needed to work with support services to find a solution. L lives in another country, a 4-hour flight away, with the father of her child and his mother. The relationship is unstable, and she's fully dependent on them. Social workers are helping her seek funding for supported living.

We've also found similar services here, offering free care and support, but she refused because she "doesn't want to live with random people." We believe it's best for her to stay in Australia and navigate her relationship with the father.

Adding to the stress, my sister lives in the same city as L. For 8 months, L made no contact with her, living a chaotic life. When I informed my sister, she made hurtful comments like "I would never do this to my daughter" and "you can't just abdicate responsibility."

I recently received a pre-diabetes diagnosis, and my doctor advised me to reduce stress . I wrote to my sister and brother, explaining detachment and asking for their understanding. My sister responded kindly but still felt compelled to get involved. She met L for lunch, gave her baby gifts, and soon began receiving emotional messages from L.

Despite my advice to keep her distance, my sister felt obligated to help (she is getting her masters in Social Work specializing in family violence so she is victim-focused and deeply concerned about L and her "vulnerability" . Last night, L called her 10 times from the hospital, fearing early labor. The father and his mother were there, but L wanted my sister to come and make them leave. My sister felt she had no choice but to go and could not understand me when I said she did have a choice. I understand the need to go the hospital - but I can see right through the play to get my sister onside to make the father leave (dramatic, manipulative, divisive and overly enmeshed).

I explained that this was not a healthy response, but my sister got emotional, saying she couldn’t believe I thought her helping was making things worse. She kept saying "I didn't ask for this, she is YOUR DAUGHTER" and "you are looking after yourself but who is caring for her". I love my sister and we have a close relationship, but all I can see is this rift starting between us because of someone else's chaos. I don't know how we can come to some kind of shared place.

First off I wanted to tell you how very proud I am of you! Like you I also see right through this as even more ways to manipulate you with hurtful words and now your sister. She is using her unborn child as a pawn in this game and it’s so unfair to her child! Your sister may think you are the most cruel mother because a baby is involved but, did your sister intervene when the other issues before the baby started? Has she gone through the extreme heartbreak and all that you have tried to make your daughter come around? I don’t mean to put your sister down that is not my intent but, went through a similar situation with my sister over my brother…..sadly my sister and I no longer have a relationship. It’s a HUGE stress on you that is now affecting your health with pre diabetes and you absolutely know you have to take action now and think of yourself. Having done everything possible your daughter is doing what my daughter did which is to go with whoever is enabling her and while your sister is well meaning she really needs to step back and stop! As she told you this is not her daughter….well…..let you handle it them! She is over stepping her boundaries and your wishes as her mother and it’s not fair to you at all.

I feel your words, you are doing the absolute right thing and as you stated she is not living on the streets, they are getting help from services. This is all you could really ask for other than her turning her life completely around, she is being taken care of. With a baby and then growing child, there are many more agencies who will make sure she has her basic needs met. The rest? Is in Gods hands and I pray for her and her child that she turns herself around and gives that baby a wonderful and happy life.

 

[SeekinghopeNZ]

It's too bad that your sister hasn't learned about healthy boundaries 101. If you are in the hospital, all you have to do is tell the nursing staff you don't want visitors.

In a way, I'd. I'ove to have a sibling who loved my child enough to want to be involved. Who tried to help. Who knew about personality disorders. I think telling your sister how much you appreciates all that she is trying to do. That you have tried to help your daughter and you know how hard it is to be in the place that she is being put in. And, that if you become aware of a true emergency, you would notify her or the authorities immediately .

Please take care of yourself, your physical and mental health...you can't control your daughter or your sister... hugs. Ksm

Thank you - it is true that I have t let go of trying to control the situation and outcome

 

[Blighty]

Sounds like you are in a really trying situation. We can't control others! All we can do is detach with love.
I would hope as part of her training she would understand what 'enabling' and co-dependency is, and the Karpman drama triangle: at the moment she is in the rescuer role for your daughter and the persecutor/victim role with you.

 

[SeekinghopeNZ]

Sounds like you are in a really trying situation. We can't control others! All we can do is detach with love.
I would hope as part of her training she would understand what 'enabling' and co-dependency is, and the Karpman drama triangle: at the moment she is in the rescuer role for your daughter and the persecutor/victim role with you.

Yes that is true about the triangle!

 

[Copabanana]

She kept saying "I didn't ask for this, she is YOUR DAUGHTER" and "you are looking after yourself but who is caring for her".

"I would never do this to my daughter" and "you can't just abdicate responsibility."

As a social work student, your sister understands psychopathology. She also understands enmeshment and the need for appropriate boundaries. She also understands the need to support the client and their highest potential. She understands the need to respect designated family units.

Alas. Sometimes we don't bring all of this knowledge home with us.

Your daughter is in a relationship with the father of her unborn child, living with the baby's grandmother. She has support that she has chosen, limited though it may be. How many of us are in questionable marriages, raise children in households that may be violent, unsupportive, or even pathological? There are no laws against people choosing poorly how to live their lives.

Your sister understands as much as anybody that there are societal resources to help and protect families and children when this goes beyond a certain line. It is a very slippery slope when we start deciding to intervene in other people's choices. It is this exact thing that you and your husband have decided to not do. And your sister has.

However loving is your relationship to your sister, it sounds like she's triggered by the situation.

I agree. What she has said is judgemental. And then when the situation blows up in her face due to her own impulsive and ill-thought choices, and wanting to be the lone ranger to "rescue" her niece, she blames you. Oh, how I wish she'd found the personal resources to partner with you so that you could support rather than:"make wrong" the other.

This has happened to me, with regard to my son, several times. I have been judged by my neighbors. A so-called friend took my son in for over 2 years, without expectations, and then only to cruelly reject him.

I think that our situations are like fly paper. They call out for intense emotions and then people get engulfed and stuck and when they are, act poorly. That is why boundaries, and trying to anticipate the effects of each action, are so important.

Even if we are judged. Even if we judge ourselves. Boundaries are the only thing that saves us. And save our loved ones. I am so sorry this is playing out as it is.

I have compassion for your sister, too, who was only caught up. She acted from the "good." This is the predicament we are all in. We act from love and it explodes in our faces. Your sister is getting a taste of this.

 

[Deni D]

This has happened to me, with regard to my son, several times. I have been judged by my neighbors. A so-called friend took my son in for over 2 years, without expectations, and then only to cruelly reject him.

I think that our situations are like fly paper. They call out for intense emotions and then people get engulfed and stuck and when they are, act poorly. That is why boundaries, and trying to anticipate the effects of each action, are so important.

Even if we are judged. Even if we judge ourselves. Boundaries are the only thing that saves us. And save our loved ones. I am so sorry this is playing out as it is.

I have compassion for your sister, too, who was only caught up. She acted from the "good." This is the predicament we are all in. We act from love and it explodes in our faces. Your sister is getting a taste of this.

So well said. Well meaning people who through their compassion do "the right thing", and if in a perfect world, would have worked to set things right. But then they are let down by dealing with the reality of the real world, one they don't understand, the one our adult children live in. Such a slippery slope, a slope we know too well. We know our adult children do not, cannot, live up to what other people think are normal expectations. And then we hurt for everyone, the people who naively try to help, our adult children who live a painful life that makes no sense, and ourselves for being judged as unloving, and uncaring.

 

[New Leaf]

Aloha Seeking,
I’m sorry you are having to deal with a whole new chapter regarding your daughter and your sister’s involvement. You have made some awesome decisions as far as helping your daughter take responsibility for her choices. Consequence is what we all have to deal with no matter what our physical, mental and emotional challenges are.

Social workers are helping her seek funding for supported living.

It’s such a relief to know that there are resources available for our wayward adult children.

We've also found similar services here, offering free care and support, but she refused because she "doesn't want to live with random people."

You have done what you could do to try to help her get home and avail herself of services there. You made a huge effort to offer her a solution, while keeping the peace in your home.

I recently received a pre-diabetes diagnosis, and my doctor advised me to reduce stress . I wrote to my sister and brother, explaining detachment and asking for their understanding.

It is so important to look after our own health. I hope that in time, your sister will understand the strain of caring for and loving a wayward adult child. The stress of trying to help, then dealing with the harsh reality that we have no control over bad choices. The inner battle between our love for our grown children and the necessity to pull back and detach for our own sanity and health.

Despite my advice to keep her distance, my sister felt obligated to help (she is getting her masters in Social Work specializing in family violence so she is victim-focused and deeply concerned about L and her "vulnerability" .

Oh boy. I can see how your sister would get caught up in “rescue mode” given the field she is in. But, as Copa said she must also have training into the dynamics of your daughter’s situation? You were brave and forthcoming to share your concern for your sister getting caught up in your daughter’s chaos.

My sister felt she had no choice but to go and could not understand me when I said she did have a choice. I understand the need to go the hospital - but I can see right through the play to get my sister onside to make the father leave (dramatic, manipulative, divisive and overly enmeshed).

You are coming from a perspective of experience and understanding the mechanism of your daughter’s issues. Unfortunately, your sister is involving herself in something she has no control over.

I explained that this was not a healthy response, but my sister got emotional, saying she couldn’t believe I thought her helping was making things worse. She kept saying "I didn't ask for this, she is YOUR DAUGHTER" and "you are looking after yourself but who is caring for her".

Ouch. That hurts, Seeking, but so not true. I’m so sorry you had to deal with your sister’s emotional reaction to a stressful situation. She has no idea what you have been through and the strength it takes to let go and let God. I am blessed to have support and encouragement from my siblings on the need to detach from my daughter’s poor choices and consequences. I hope that you know from the core of you that you are absolutely right in distancing yourself from the toxicity of your daughter’s issues.

I love my sister and we have a close relationship, but all I can see is this rift starting between us because of someone else's chaos. I don't know how we can come to some kind of shared place.

Time. Time and circumstance. Experience. No one knows the complexity and emotional stress of dealing with our wayward adult children’s drama. I don’t think your sister will completely understand until she has gone through a few episodes of trying to “help” someone who will not help themselves. Your sister is an adult and will make her own choices as far as dealing with your daughter, you cannot save her from that. You have made your point and your sis is making a choice to be involved. It is not your fault, nor is it your responsibility to be in the middle. Hopefully your sister will eventually come round to understand why you and your husband have made the extremely difficult decision to step way back. You did nothing to cause your daughter’s chaos, can’t control it, or change it. Understanding that and living with it is not easy, it hurts, a lot. Hopefully, your sister will learn this hard reality sooner than later. We cannot abandon ourselves over the choices of our adult children, or relatives. Unfortunately, if we are so inclined, our wayward kids hone in on that vulnerability and will take us down the rabbit hole with them. I know you want to save your sister from the heartache and hardships you have endured. She will understand when she is ready to open her eyes and see the truth of it. This is so for many of us who were in the heat of rescue mode, I don’t think anyone could have convinced us of how enmeshed we were, it was through trial and error and much heartache, that we learned to stop reacting to every “crisis” and adopt a calmer response.
It’s a totally different scenario, but an example that comes to mind is my son’s involvement with a girlfriend that became an unhealthy relationship. She was controlling and manipulative and worked to isolate him from family. I, as well as his sisters tried to address the obvious, but he could not see the “forest for the trees.” He wouldn’t hear our concerns and would get offended and upset. We had to step back and let go. It took some time for him to come to his own conclusion. After a few incidents, he broke off with her and understood what we were trying to tell him.
Perhaps you can lessen your worry of a rift with your sister by taking a backseat? I think detachment can also help us learn to become neutral and “Zen” in other relationships and circumstances, knowing that we don’t have control over outcomes, that life will play out as it does.

Mahalo nui for letting us know your situation. You are doing remarkably well despite what is going on with L and your sister.

Prayers going up that no matter what happens, you can continue to work towards your own healing, inner light and peace.
Malama pono!
New Leaf

 

[Copabanana]

How are you doing, Seeking?

 

[SeekinghopeNZ]

Thank you for asking. It has been a very trying time. Shortly after my post I had to fly back to South Africa to visit my terminally ill father. My sister and brother joined me there. It was a good moment to also be resolving some of our hurts.
My sister could see how manipulative my daughter was because the moment we arrived she started her drama. She called to say she was moving into a shelter/ refuge because of threats from the baby’s father. So the whole time I was away we had messages from her.
Eventually my sister told me to set a boundary and tell my daughter that it was too much.
She then told me to not respond to any further messages! So I felt like my sister had more of a revelation at this point.

My dad passed away a week after our return.
Not a word of sympathy from my daughter.
Instead she did the usual victim rant and said she was going to block me and she didn’t want anything to do with me.

The day after my father’s death, my sister called a group phone call with myself, my brother and my husband. She said that something had to be done and that we must all contribute some money to set my daughter up in a flat. We said a firm no to that. We said we feel it would only set her up for failure.
If child protection had to get involved then so be it.
We did not believe she was able to be a mother on her own.
After that conversation my sister texted that she was just struggling to get on the same page, that she heard the reasoning, but struggled with the thinking of leaving L to sort herself out while knowing she is very damaged.
In the mean time L has moved back in with the father of the baby but they have unstable housing and only his low income.
L is drip feeding information and not replying to our questions. Another way of keeping us in a state of uncertainly and giving her the control.

 

[Copabanana]

After that conversation my sister texted that she was just struggling to get on the same page, that she heard the reasoning, but struggled with the thinking of leaving L to sort herself out while knowing she is very damaged.

This is the situation most of us find ourselves: in: Watching our children handle their lives while impaired in judgment, skills, and capacity. And what for most would be a joy and blessing, a new baby, is an event so much more complex and weighty.

I am so sorry for your father's passing.

L is drip feeding information and not replying to our questions. Another way of keeping us in a state of uncertainly and giving her the control.

You don't have to buy in. You can decide how much support and involvement you want to offer, and control that message. She responds or not. She will do what she is going to do, regardless of what you say, think, or do. That is what I have learned in 9 years here. It has been a very important learning

However limited your daughter is, I believe she wants to protect her baby. I hope so.

Why not keep posting? Let us support you.

 

[lovemysons]

Hi Seeking.
I’m so sorry to hear of your father’s passing. It sounds like you loved him very much. It must hurt that your daughter was all caught up in her own situation and could not find it in her heart to reach out and comfort you. Instead making the situation about herself and her uncertain situation.

I hope your daughter will wise up soon. Sounds like with the new baby coming it could complicate matters even more.

Keep us posted!
Love,
LMS

 

[Tiredof33]

I'm sorry for your loss, I know from experience how hard it is to cope with loss.
My son and his partners are too wrapped up in themselves to understand others are hurting too.
I had 3 major surgeries while dealing with the loss of my mother and they were like, 'oh, that's right, you had surgery!'.
My son recently broke up from a lady and her 3 children. Hubby and I decided to help them when my son met her 5 years ago as they were literally living on the streets. We helped her get a job (it took almost 2 years) but our reason was to help get the kids get out of poverty and educated to support themselves. I gave up when the mother let the 14yo drop out of school.
My son was threatening suicide during their breakup drama, committed himself 3 times in a short time frame for alcohol, drugs, mental health.
They broke up & now he has found another needing help. It's never ending because they want to be in a relationship, but the only type they attract has the same problems.
This lady he is now involved with is so troubled and I'm certain there's substance abuse.
I know so many people struggling to help their adult loved
ones. It's heartbreaking.
My 70+yo friend is trying to raise her granddaughter's newborn hoping the grand will get her life together enough soon to take the baby. It's breaking my friend's heart, but it's not working out.
My prayers are for guidance for us all.
(((hugs)))

 

[Crayola14]

I’m sorry about your father. I’m still trying to absorb the shock of my mother’s death four years ago. It is a very sad thing to endure. It gets better over time.

I hate to think of a baby going into foster care. The best decision, even if it’s fit wrenching, is to find a couple to adopt the baby right after birth. It’s not a decision anybody wants to make, but the baby’s needs come first. Finding an infertile couple who desperately want a baby would be the best option.

If the the father’s parents want to raise the baby and are able, that could work, as long as they know what they’re in for, when it comes to finances, energy level, possibly delaying retirement, generation gap, etc.

 

[lovemysons]

Seeking…has your daughter been using drugs while she’s pregnant? This could be heartbreaking for anyone thinking of taking on the baby and finding out they’ve got years of problems ahead of them.

Like Crayola, I hope the baby will go to a strong loving family that is able to adopt. This sounds like it might be the best case scenario.

I would tell your daughter she is an extremely selfish person to keep the baby and not be able to provide well for the baby.

I’m sorry you’re in this situation and I’m sorry for the new baby.

Love,
LMS

 

[Nethialo]

Hey, I'm really sorry to hear about all this. It sounds like a tough spot for everyone involved. From my own experience, sometimes it’s best to keep a clear line and stick to the boundaries you’ve set. Your sister clearly cares a lot, but it might help to gently remind her that sticking to the plan you’ve worked out is important for everyone’s well-being, including yours. Maybe find a way to appreciate her efforts while still keeping your own boundaries in place. It's tough balancing compassion with self-care, but finding that middle ground might help ease the tension.