New here-bit of a long one!

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Benny, Apr 9, 2012.

  1. Benny

    Benny Guest

    Hey all. Boy, am I glad I found this site.
    I am totally new to the group, and currently struggling hard core to stay strong in my decision to kick my 21 yr old son out of the house, for the last time.
    I have 2 very difficult sons (twins). One who was living at home until yesterday and the other that I threw out of the house a few years ago, who now lives with my inlaws, so in effect, it didn't achieve the end result that I was hoping for, since it is me that gets the phone calls when he starts to kick off!
    I have a husband (who is father to all 4 of my kids), who unfortunately is having a hard time supporting me in this decision because he doesn't understand what good it's going to do, since he has nowhere to go.
    We have been living in total hell for the past 6 years, since the twins were 15.
    Drugs of all kinds, stealing, disrespecting, threatening, suicide attempts, cutting, you name it, I've dealt with it.
    Neither of them has been diagnosed with anything because neither of them are willing to submit to any kind of evaluation. We twin 2 locked up in a psychiatric facility when he was about to turn 16 because he tried to hang himself in our basement when he was high on morphine, and while he was in the facility they told us that there was no way to tell if he had any kind of true mental issue because everything that came out of his mouth was a lie!! Ultimately, they discharged him after 3 weeks because he was turning 16 and they could no longer keep him there without his permission, which he obviously wouldn't give. When he came home, we had in house therapy set up (multi systemic therapy). It was at least 2 nights a week, 2 hours each night. Of course, neither of the twins were willing to participate in it, so my husband and |I did it anyway, hoping that we could learn how to better deal with our situation. Well, after about 2 months of trying to help us, our therapist quit, because she didn't feel that she could help us!!!! Can you believe that?!! My kids were so bad, that a trained therapist gave up on them!
    About 3 years ago, our daughter needed emergency brain surgery (she has hydrocephalus). While we were in hospital with her, twin 2 stole my father inlaw\s car from our driveway and smashed it up. So, I kicked him out, came home from the hosptial and changed the locks on the house. When we arrived home, all the screens in our windows had been cut out, our bedroom door had been kicked in (we had put a lock on to try and keep then out) and our house totally ransacked, every bit of money that was in the house was gone, as well as jewelry.
    Later that night, twin 1 came to the door drunken and drugged up saying that he was our son, and how could we be ok with putting him out in the street and that he had no food to eat. All this, while my daughter is trying to rest and recover from invasive surgery that had complications. When we finally closed the door on him, he started kicking in our car, and my husband ran outside to push him off the property and that is when my son pulled a knife on us, chased us up the driveway and stabbed the knife into the door when we slammed it shut. I called the police and had him arrested and left him in the juvenile detention, with no intention of bailing him out, and after 2 weeks, my inlaws bailed him out. Figuring that he has been clean for 2 weeks, I gave him a chance to prove he could change, and a week later, he stole my bank card, and cleared out my account. leaving me with no money for groceries! When I called the bank, about recovering the money, they said that they wouldn't be able to because the PIN was guessed correctly on the 2nd try! So, out he went again, but of course, my inlaws took him in again! Even though both of the twins have stolen numerous things from them over the years, money, jewelry, alcohol, cars, etc. They have money, so it's not as damaging to them as it is to us, who have to work hard for everything that we have. By the way, neither of my sons have ever held a job for more than a couple of weeks, and both are high school drop outs.
    These are the kinds of things that have happened over the years, and my final straw was this weekend, when I realized that all of my younger kids Wii games were missing. Yep, he stole them and sold them for money for dope. As I am writing this, I am ignoring calls from him and arguing with my husband about whether this is the right thing to do, but I am tired of being a hostage in my own life! I am so sick of standing alone with all of this, I know that there is no easy answer, and I'm not even sure if what I am doing is the right thing to do, but what else can I do? I can't continue to expose my other 2 kids to all this chaos, they deserve to have a decent life.
    Any thoughts???
  2. keista

    keista New Member

    ((((HUGS)))) No direct experience, but I do know you are doing the right thing. can you get yourself and husband into counseling? Maybe that will help get him to see the light? How old are your younger kids? They may need some counseling too. If husband won't go, keep reminding him of the damage the twins are doing to your other kids and as the adults in the household, if the twins are allowed to wreck havoc in their lives and steal the food out of their mouths it's as if the adults are doing it. Know what I mean??

    Stay strong. Others in similar situations will be by.
  3. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Welcome Benny. I am so sorry for the issue's you are dealing with with your sons. I am glad you found this site. I don't have your particular experience with my daughter, however, I think you did the right thing in having both sons out of your house. I agree with Keista that getting some therapy or help of some kind for you and your husband sounds like the next step. This is not my area of expertise, but I know other parents here have had to deal with violence and drugs with their kids and they will have more advise for you. It seems that you should be able to get a restraining order to keep them away from your home and from you. There should be some legal options which you can take to protect your family. And, I would also like to see you and your husband get on the same page and form a united front. This sounds dangerous. I'm sorry, I know this is very hard for you, and it's been a very long road. As you will begin to see, most of us here have been on those hard roads and at some point, we stop and begin to make hard choices and take our lives back. Their behavior is clearly not okay and you have to develop strict boundaries around that behavior and don't waver from them. Those of us here have had to let go of our adult children and allow them to find their own way. We are all in various stages of that detachment process. it's tough, but necessary. You will find like minded kind souls here to help you find your way. I believe you are doing the right thing. Keep posting and let us know what you are up to, how you feel. There are many here who can help you. I hope the decision you made begins to offer you some peace of mind. Hugs to you. Welcome.
  4. buddy

    buddy New Member

    welcome, I wish you didn't need to find us... I am so sorry for all you are going through. Stay strong. There are MANY here who will share with you how they can relate. Lots of parents with more than one difficult child too. several with twins (not all your issues but I am amazed how much harder it must be to have them doubled up on you, you can't catch a break).

    You are not alone in this and I hope you check in often to meet this fabulous group of parents. HUGS to you.....
  5. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful


    Thoughts? You made the right decision. Eventually others will see the light.........although some never manage to get their heads out of the sand.

    You, as you found out, can't force help onto anyone. All you can actively do is decide how your life will be or not be. Your house, your rules. As adults, it's up to the twins to follow those rules or get out and make their own lives. You simply called them on it. It's not your fault other family have yet to get on board and have chosen to interfere. Sadly.....their interference is probably going to muck up the waters for a while.

    It doesn't mean you don't love them. On the contrary. It sends a clear message you love them enough to make certain they know their behavior is unacceptable so that hopefully they will learn to behave another way.

    I'm glad you found us, and so sorry it was necessary. Welcome to the board.
  6. Benny

    Benny Guest

    Wow, you guys have no idea how much your support means to me! Unfortunately, things took a bit of an unexpected turn this evening.My husband broke down because our son was crying & begging to be allowed to stay, and told me that he can't do it. So, I looked him in his eyes & told him in no uncertain terms, that if he couldn't support me in this decision, then I would not be able to stay in our home. I told him that I am not going to continue to live this way & I am not going to put our other kids through this any longer. He just couldn't stand behind me, so I took the younger kids packed a couple of bags, thanked my son for single handedly destroying my family & went to stay at my mother's house. At least until I can figure out a place for me & the kids to live. My other 2 children are 16 yr old girl, who is the most amazing creature I have ever had the privilege of knowing. I also have another son who is 12 & he is also amazing. I feel so blessed to be their mother. So, what kind of a mother would I be if I let them continue to suffer because their older brothers have chosen to be lowlifes? Well, it's been a really long day, time to try & get some sleep.Thanks again to all of you for your support, youcannot begin to understand how much it means to me!
  7. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It


    I am sorry for all of the difficulties and turmoil you have endured. It is great to meet you though!

    Your story brings up a lot of thoughts. First of all, do you have children under age 18 in the home, or anyone who you are the guardian of? if so, that person's needs MUST come before those of an adult addicted difficult child (difficult child who brought you here - hover your mouse over the abbreviations you don't understand to get a quick definition). The needs of a minor MUST be your top priority, along with those of any adult that you are guardian of (I don't know your daughter's situation). Are you aware that if you are allowing an adult drug user to live in your home, children's services can remove any minor children in your home, and anyone you are guardian of? this isn't likely to happen, but it can and it can be used as a reason to not let your sons live in the home.

    what good will it do to kick your son out? Has your husband ever gone to alanon, narcanon, any 12 step program? One of the things that is soooo common sense but we FORGET as parents is that every single penny we give or spend on our kds is one more penny they have to spend on drugs. It really IS that smple. If your child can find money to satisfy an addiction then they can find money to survive on If THEY WANT It. that is the key part. according to some figures I just found, the average heroin user spends $150-$200 per day on their drugs. If your kids can come up with this, then they can support themselves. if they had $500 per day, they would NOT smoke $250 and pay bills/rent/etc... with the rest. they would smoke $500 worth of drugs each day. Having to find a place to live will mean he has to find the money to pay for that. or someone to mooch off of, which never lasts forever. kicking them out and not helping them with anything, or helping with the bare minimum you can handle, will bring their bottom up to to them and help get them into treatment sooner. That is why you don't rescue someone with an addiction. the harder things are, the more they want help.

    What do you do when the relatives call with problems with the boys? Has it ever occurred to you that it is none of your business? You really don't have to listen to it all. You can tell htem that you honor their choice to let the twins live with them, but you do not want to hear about problems and you won't suggest ways to handle any issues/problems or whatever else comes up. You love them and yoru sons, but these are not things you can handle or fix. No one will like it - they ARE your kids after all. Nope. They WERE your kids. Now they are their own adults. Period. A lot of this is called learning to detach, and you can find a lot of great info in the archives about it.

    As parents of adult children, our role is different. We don't have a say. we can be a sounding board, offer opinions when asked, but we cannot control or force anything our children do with other adults. I am sure that you have let the family know why your sons are not allowed to live iwth you. What you are upset with, etc.... they then chose to enable and house and help them. that felt like a slap upside the face, didn't it? it wasn't meant that way. THEY couldn't let go of your sons and the promising future they hoped for and they (the relatives) thought they could fix the problems. What goes on with your adult children and the adult family members is only your business if you are one of the involved adults.

    As you have decided to not have your sons live with you, you need to define what all that means? no contact other than at group/family events? You also need to let the family know that if either or both of the boys have done something wrong, it is not something you will listen to, be part of, fix, help, talk to them about, or otherwise have any part of it. Until they have successfully gone through treatment and are living in recovery, you will only interact on specific terms. You and husband need to figure out ahead of time what you will and won't do - what are the limits, what are the boundaries? No contact? bail money only? Only rides when too drunk/stoned to drive? car repairs? sunday dinners? this si YOUR family and we can tell you that certan things are recommended or worked for us, but you have to live it, so the ONLY "right" boundaries are the ones that you can live with. if you won't stick to a boundary or conseuqence, don't say it.

    It IS hard. in my opinion there is little that is harder. some of our kids just cannot learn except the hardest way possible. Please, if you find things missing, press charges.. if your son breaks in, press charges. Yes, it is a PITA and the family will be upset. it is also a way to let the boys know that you are done being a victim. NONe of this is a fast set of events and there will be a lot of mistakes. You are doing a great job, and more importantly, doing the best you can. keep up the good work!
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Jeeez, I am so sorry you are going through this!

    I totally think you did the right thing and the brave thing. Your husband is too afraid to confront his kids who steal from him and abuse drugs. The in-laws are in lala land. If they want the boys to live with them, I say LET THEM but never accept any of their phone calls or texts of complaint.

    Meanwhile you three are safe with your mother. I can't think of anything you could have done differently and support you 100%!
  9. keista

    keista New Member

    Congratulations on taking the step of moving out and taking a stand. Hopefully husband will see the error of his ways and this will only be a temporary move for you.

    Yes, reality is, that you raised these boys to the very best of your ability. It's now time to give all that attention to your other kids. They deserve it.
  10. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Good morning Benny,
    What a courageous and loving choice you made! I think you made the right choice given the circumstances you found yourself in. I hope your husband can come to the same conclusion once he is thinking clearly. I agree with Midwestmom and support you 100%. You are an amazing warrior Mom like so many others here. I am proud of you. I send you prayers that this choice leads you to the best possible place for all of you. Hugs to you.
  11. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Just sending a short post of support. Sorry I'm kinda into a family crisis right now so no extra time. As hard hearted as this sounds (believe me I am not that, lol) you need to go back to your home and take all jewelry, money, etc. that has value monetarily or emotionally to storage or your Moms. I've been lucky that my difficult child only stole from me once but he did take jewelry and pawn it much to be jaw dropping shock. It was recovered from the pawn shop but alot of families here have not only lost money and jewelry but momentos from grandparents etc. Your husband will never think to protect those things in his state of denial. Even if you have to rent a storage unit I suggest you go into full protective mode. Fingers crossed that the easy child kids can cope with the disruption. Hugs DDD
  12. Tiredof33

    Tiredof33 Active Member

    I struggled with an out of control son stealing from me for many years and he started using at a very young age. He stole from me and helped his friends steal from me. He stole my car keys and gave them to two new friends that were stealing from people with a gun. The police told me the truth. They stole my Christmas presenst, my jewelry, wiped out my home one time.

    He was in 2 court ordered rehab center, here we ware responsible for them until age 18 and then they are considered adults in most states. Every time he was in trouble he bragged about it! Looking back I don't know how I stood it as long as I did without having a total breakdown. At 19 I said you are out of here and I meant it. Of course they are going to scream and cry and promise to change because YOU are their means of continuing their lifestyle.

    At 33 my son had be clean and sober for the previous year and he apologized for what he put me through. I thought he had finally turned his life around. I had moved to another state after retiring 3 years ago so I did not know he and girl friend had started using again. He conned me into helping him financially for about 5 months. Then she stated harrassing me and I called the police and found out the truth.

    They party alot and fight a lot and he cuts himself and threatens suicide. She was put in detox and he was thrown out on the street. I received 2 emails from him a month ago, one liners asking for money and I ignored them.

    I have doubts that my son will ever grow up and be a responsible person! But that is his choice and I will not support him. I have family members that have adult men, unemployed, sleeping on their sofas. In their late 20's and perfectly happy to be supported, no ambition!!!!

    It is sad that you had to leave your home. It is so very hard, so please, do not judge your spouse harshly. Now that he has the son in the home with out you maybe he will see exactly what is going on and move over to your side. If not, that is his choice! You can only control YOUR choices.

    Read the posts and the books recommended here. All of the pros say stop the money, maybe the grands will get tired of them stealing!

    As has been pointed out, you can not change other people only yourself, and you are not in control so try to let it go. DETACH as much as you can. You owe it to the 2 still living at home that deserve a safe life until they are the legal age to support themselves. Stay strong, as I said, it is not easy, but as much as I love my son I have a right to a safe life without chaos.

    (((blessings and prayers for us all)))
  13. Calamity Jane

    Calamity Jane Well-Known Member

    I know you're in flux right now, but if you get a chance to read this, you absolutely did the right thing. For your children's safety, and of course for your safety and self respect it was the wise choice to remove yourselves from the situation. I hope your husband stays safe and follows your lead. Good luck.
  14. Benny

    Benny Guest

    Thank you everyone, your love and support is unbelievable. It is sad that I had to seek the support of total strangers, because I was feeling like maybe I was making the wrong choice. That maybe my husband is right, and that putting him out of the house was too harsh, but I just kept having the feeling that this was the only option that I had left, so I started googling to see what other folks have tried, and over and over, I was reading that this really is my only choice. I spoke with my husband this morning and told him that if it was his choice to have twin 1 still living at home, then they would need to find a new home, because I think that my younger ones have been through enough upheaval. The 3 of us will be returning home tomorrow to start our new life together. In the meantime I will be seeking therapy for my husband and myself, because I am not ready to give up on my marriage just yet. I hope that with time and work, my husband will see that we have no other course of action.
  15. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Wow, way to go MOM! You are an amazing WARRIOR Mom! Good plan with the therapy for you and your husband, with time and support he may come around. Good for you. I am very proud of your ability to see clearly and make good, healthy choices for yourself and your other kids. It is time for the twins to figure it out on their own. HUGS to you dear Mom. I hope your path gets easier and that your husband gets on board.
  16. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Benny, sadly my SO and I arent in the best place right now together but it has nothing to do with our difficult child at this time, it has to do with his difficult child brother so I am going to answer your post anyway because at one time I was in pretty much your same situation except we didnt have near the violence you are dealing with.

    My difficult child is our youngest child. Well in reality all 3 of my kids are difficult child's in some form or fashion but the youngest is the hardest. He gave us our biggest run for our money.

    His teen years were hellish. I wouldnt do them over for a million bucks. He was in and out of group homes and psychiatric wards and Residential Treatment Center (RTC)'s. The month he turned 19 he met a woman and a few months later she got pregnant and they had a baby the month before he turned 20. I had high hopes that the baby would straighten him up but this "baby momma" was a real piece of work and drove him nuts. On his 21st birthday he stole my check book and the two of them had a good old time spending over 1200 bucks of mine. Now we couldnt charge her because it was only his signature on the checks. Sigh. She was a smart girl. That was my line in the sand. I charged him criminally. Eventually after the trial and everything was over, we put him out. If we had been dealing with violence, things would have gone different with how we had done some of the things we did but we allowed him to stay here on house arrest and while he was awaiting trial.

    I think you are doing the exact right thing. Like I said in the beginning, my SO and I arent doing very well because of his adult brother who is a difficult child. He is 53 years old and an addict who has only supposedly stopped using in September. I have reason to believe that is not true. He has turned my SO and I against each other and at this point in time we are hardly speaking to each other. Adult difficult child's should never be allowed to interfere in the lives of people.
  17. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    Benny, first i would like to welcome you to the board. I am truly sorry you are going through all this. I had to put my son out after he got violent with me and broke my rib. I sent him to the ER under police escort but he didn't meet the criteria for involuntary commitment and refused to stay on his own. Because he didn't stay the police was forced to charge him with assault. I have no guilt over that. It was difficult child's choice to break my rib and his choice to choose a party over treatment. At the timeof this incident he was out on bail from arobbery he participated in. when he walked away fromthe hospital, I revoked his bail. He was picked up by the police three days later (longest three days of my life).

    You did absolutely the right thing. Your boys refuse treatment they are violent and using illegal substances. They are putting their younger siblings at risk and also victimizing you and your husband. I truly hope your husband will benifit from therapy and that you can save your marriage and provide a unified front against your difficult children' horrid behavior. I am not familiar with Canaddian laws so cannot make those kinds of suggestions. If you can afford it I would seek legal advice to see what your options are in regard to your sons.