Not Sure How or If

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by susiestar, Nov 3, 2012.

  1. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Quite a while ago I sent Wiz a message on facebook. He NEVER calls us or responds to any message we send. NEVER. I don't really go on fb often, maybe every couple of months mostly because I don't see anything very interesting there and I cannot think of who would be interested in the minutiae of my life either.

    Anyway, Wiz did send a couple of messages a few weeks after I sent him one. His perception of what happened with our family is so skewed that I have no idea where to even start to talk to him about it, or even IF I should. At this point I pretty much have no relationship with him and neither does husband. Of course Wiz does not blame husband for any problems, in spite of the fact that husband had almost no relationship with Wiz for the last five or so years that we lived as a family. husband did almost nothing wth Wiz, did not get involved if Wiz raged other than to do something to keep J and T amused and safe while I did what I could to keep Wiz from hurting himself, me or anyone else. husband disconnected because he had no clue how to deal with Wiz' anger and problems and he wasn't interested in figuring out how to help - that was my job. It did almost wreck our marriage, but we worked through it.

    Wiz feels that I threw him under a bus to save myself, and that I would throw him away at any tme for any reason if it was in any way difficult to get along with him. he is NOT open to any discussion or thought about how severe his problems were or how intense our efforts to help him were. I threw my health away trying to help him and I have permanent damage to my body caused by his rages and violence. Not just emotional trauma, actual physical damage.

    Wiz also thinks that I should talk to my bro so that I can somehow save my niece from morbid obesity caused by her mother. her mother is psycho with severe mental illness and addiction issues and bulimia/anorexia and every evening that she has niece, they go and eat 1/2 GALLON of ice cream EACH in front of the tv. Bro does provide healthy meals/snacks and plenty of exercise and limited tv, and niece is a delightful child (9 or 10 now). I don't see niece because I am the "bad child' in my family's eyes because I won' allow my bro to be around me. That is a different issue. For YEARS Wiz begged me to cut ties with bro but when I did I was a horrible person.

    I cut bro out because he was traumatizing my kids. Wiz went to my parents because I honestly and truly believed that he was going to either kill me and then Jess or that I would kill him to keep him from killing me and then Jess. Even the cops and the psychiatrist and therapist thought that this was the most probably outcome. There was NOTHING that I cuold do or say to Wiz that got a reaction other than violence. Even "how was your day?" or "good morning/night/afternoon" or "Do you want some ice cream?" was a reason to attack me physically. The ONLY way I could see to save his life and mine and Jessie's was to get him out of the house. It was NEVER supposed to be the end of our relationship, but he has steadfastly flat out refused to do ANYTHING with me. I have even stopped going to my inlaws for holidays because if I go then he won't go. I use my health as an excuse there, and honestly the steps in their home are incredibly challenging for me given the knee and hip problems. Add in the contant potpourri and room 'freshener' that they use and the instant migraines that I get from them and it isn't much of an excuse, but I would still have gone if Wiz didn't make it very clear that he won't go if I do.

    I don't even have a clue HOW to start to address this with Wiz. I love that young man more than I could EVER express and sending him to go live out of our home broke me in ways I can't even describe. thank you looks EXACTLY like Wiz did then, and sounds like him, and lately that makes me cry because I long for the loving relationship I once had with wiz. I have so many amazing memories iwth Wiz and we were so very close until he got so very angry and I never really understood why he was so angry other than that we gave him siblings and expected him to do his schoolwork and behave reasonable well. he wasn't abused, though he claims to have been. I know my mother mucked around in those memories because she felt we 'abused' him by not giving him the large box of books and toys every week that she sent them. I am talking about a box the size of ones that paper are packed in, and 90% of the box was only for Wiz every tme, even after J and T were borna nd old enough to ask questions. My mom also felt that by moving out of state because husband cuoldn't find a job here and we did have job offers there, that we 'abused' Wiz. She pushed that for YEARS and she pushed that anything we did with/for Jess was somehow taking away from Wiz.

    I really feared this wehn Wiz went to live with my parents, but we didn't really have any other options. The judge refused to do anything, the deputy would't write up the paperwork to send the case to the judge even after our second court appearance, CPS felt that as long as he wasn't in our home that they didn't need to get nvolved because our other kids were protected. My parents were really the only option other than to bring Wiz home. My parents refused to make him see a therapist or even to discuss it with him. I saw one, but wouldn't let my mom tell the therapist how to treat me, so that wasn't good enough, and I really was just out of options. Heck, even my mother's therapist told me that she wasn't sure what my mom wanted other than to control my life and have Wiz as my mom's kid and not mine. Honestly, we really fought that because all along my mom had zero perception of her role as a grandparent instead of a parent. It was a HUGE problem esp as she was so clearly biased and we caught her many times telling Wiz that he could ignore me and that I was awful for giving him time out for hurting Jess or breaking Jess's toys, etc.... Jess has a strained relationship with my mom because this bias, of course. My mom denies ALL of this, but I am not the only one who has heard her. She even sent her version of Wiz' history to one therapist we saw and the therapist was just shocked. the entire history was all about how we abused Wiz by not letting my mother be his mom and control our parenting, and how awful I was to not let her make my son the little prince who controlled our world wth his tantrums and entitlement.

    Wiz is a fine young man and has outgrown much of the gfgness though he still gets great glee out of some less than wonderful behaviors. He is always followed around Walmart because he does things like set every alarm clock to go off or program the tv's to do something or set off all those talking stuffed animals at one time, or the other things on those lists of what not to do at WM. but he is law abiding, not abusing substances, and isn't violent any more. but he still believes that I had him exorcised (husband wanted to at one point, but no, it did NOT happen. husband was at his wit's end at the time.) He also believes that the holy water burned his skin when he was baptised, but really he just cooed when it happened.

    I don't know if I should try to talk to Wiz, or just let it go and let him go and pray he is happy and that one day he will come to try to talk to me. I honestly do not know. I was far from perfect as a parent. I did have anger issues and didn't work through them as early as I wish I had. I made a LOT of mistakes as a parent, and maybe I was a horrible mother to him. I have and will always feel awful that Wiz couldn't live with us. I didn't send him out of the home to protect myself or even J and thank you. I did it because I was afraid that WIZ was going to end up dead or in prison for killing me and/or Jess. yes, we were protected with him out of our home, but the MAIN goal was to make sure that Wiz had a future. If he had hurt/killed one of us he would have ended up in the Juvie prison that is pretty much a death sentence here - husband and I both know kids who were sent there and were killed by guards who did it purposely. The place is awful and was one of my worst fears. Wiz doesn't acknowledge how out of control he was, and how violent he was or how hard we tried to help him. He just thinks I wanted to control his every thought and action.

    Do I just let it go? Do I wait and pray that one day he can see the truth? Do I confront him? He will NOT go to a therapist under any circumstances, at least at this time. He beleives that we only took him to the therapist to brainwash him and that it was abusive to take him to the therapist.

    I don't know how to cope with this. ANY advice would be appreciated, and thanks for reading this. I know I messed up a LOT as a parent, but I never set out to hurt him. I love him more than life itself, and if throwing myself under a bus would help him, I would go do it right now. I am also stunned that he thinks that I could help my niece in any way - there is no way that bro would let me near her even if I kissed his tushie for a year and let him abuse me, my kids, husband and kissed his boots after he did it. Bro and his ex used me as their scapegoat so many times that there is NO WAY that anything I did or said could have a positive effect on niece's life.
  2. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Well obviously Wiz isnt as over being a difficult child as we thought. No, I would just sit back and wait. Nothing you can say now is going to make a dent in his thinking. What may change him is his own kids. Or simply time. You did the best thing you could do for him with what you were given. I remember those times. You were here. They werent fun and you didnt just decide one day to make life miserable for him by lying about him and sticking him somewhere else. I can also relate to a mother who wanted everything from me including my first born son. What is it about that anyway? Though I do have to admit I want my first born
  3. pasajes4

    pasajes4 Well-Known Member

    First of all, you need a huge ((((hug))). Second, do not let him get to you and have u second guess the decisions you made in HIS best interest. The most effect tool our difficult children have against us is guilt. You may never get him to see things differently, and the more you try the more joy he gets out of twisting your gut up with a pain that only those of us who have been there done that get.

    Hold your head up and know that we think you are an amazing mother. Love, Pat
  4. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Susie, what a sad story, I am so sorry. I wasn't around for the time you were actually going through this but I can certainly understand your heartache and the uncertainty of how to proceed. I agree with Janet, in that, at this point in time, there is nothing you can do but accept the choices he's made. I know how difficult that is. I've had family members extricate me from their lives for some misguided reasons only they understood. My sister and my daughter both at different times threw me under the bus. I was blamed for horrible atrocities that were conjured up in wounded brains with no resemblance to the truth and it hurt like heck. It took me a very long time to come to grips with the fact that I didn't do anything to deserve it and there was also nothing I could do to change it.. Like you I wandered around through guilt and remorse until I finally reached a place within me of acceptance. It's a long road. I still feel sad about it but it isn't a big part of my life anymore, I had to learn to move on. I don't say that lightly, I know the pain you feel, but you have 2 other children who need your attention and love and they deserve you there 100%.

    You did the best you could with what you knew at the time, as we all do, none of us are perfect parents there is no such thing. We're human, we make mistakes, we learn from them and then we forgive ourselves and move on. You had enormous odds working against you with your mother working behind the scenes, with your son raging and now simply forgetting that fact. Just know you did the very best you could and yes you made mistakes but what is important, always, is the intention behind your choices and from what I can see, your intention was all about love. That's where to focus your attention. The rest is now your sons life.

    I'm sorry about your mother and brother and your son, they made choices which hurt many people and you're left with the baggage of that. I know how that feels on a very deep level and I empathize with you. My advice to you is to let go, accept what is, for now, it could change, it may not, but you have a life to live and to live it fully and joyfully, you'll need to accept what is. No easy task I understand, but necessary. Forgive yourself, accept what is and stay in the present moment, not the past and not the future, right here, right now where you're with a husband who loves you and is your best friend and with 2 kids who are thriving. Let go of the guilt, it only serves to hurt you now, let go of the pain, there is nothing you can do right now, let go of all of it and bless him where he is, send him love and go have your life...................(((HUGS)))
  5. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    Susie - Gentle hugs for your hurting heart. I'm so very sorry. Our kids really can bring us to our knees.

    Wiz is still *incredibly* young, and I'm not sure it's possible for a kid his age to have the insight necessary to understand why you made the choices you did. Esp with- the added complication of whatever junk other family members may have been spoon feeding him. I know the longing to have a relationship with- a kid who just isn't interested - I think it's something you have to wait out. Maybe he will be like my thank you and eventually come around. thank you shocked me a couple of weeks ago by saying something along the lines of how he was starting to realize how hard our family circumstances must have been for me and that he gets now what a good job I did considering what I had to work with. I was stunned. Or... maybe Wiz won't ever get it. I'm not sure that anything you do right now will make him go one way or the other.

    Our kids turn out to be who they are. It would be really nice to have some understanding and mutual respect or compassion or something along those lines, but I really don't think kids see us as people - we're the parents. Does that make sense? Wiz right now doesn't see your side during those really bad years. Maybe it will come with time, maybe not.

    I think the only thing you can do is keep the lines of communication open, at least from your end. And you need to forgive yourself for whatever flaws, real or imagined, that you think you had as a mother. Goodness - none of us expected to be dealing with what we ended up dealing with, and I don't think there's a person on the board who doesn't have several of those "I was a horrible mom" memories, but we got the best help we could, we tried our hardest, and we got better. Most importantly, none of us intentionally meant to cause our kids harm.

    And you also need to remember that with- some kids, a mom is *never* going to win. You wouldn't *believe* the garbage that comes out of my beloved daughter's mouth, all the ways I've ruined her childhood, and by extension her life. I'm okay with- that, though I do hope someday she will get some help, but... I can't do anything about her perceptions.

    At the end of the day, Susie, we did the very best that we could. We can't control what our kids do with that, but we can and *should* take comfort from the fact that we could not have done any better than our best.
  6. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    I have to agree that any perspective on his part is more likely to come with time and experience rather than trying to talk sense into him. I hate that it hurts you so in the meantime. *hugs*
  7. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Thank you. You are right that talking to him won't do much to fix anything. I have a feeling that some day in the future he will realize how his actions and perceptions have been manipulated by those who are not his father and I. All that we have EVER wanted is for him to be a healthy productive member of society who does not have to worry about criminal consequences for his actions and who is pursuing whatever interests make him happy. IOW, we only want what is best for him.

    I thought I had worked through a lot of this, and it was a shock to have it all hurt so incredibly when I read his messages. I have zero idea why he thinks I am powerful enough to change my niece's lifestyle enough to prevent her from becoming more morbidly obese. even wehn I was on what for us was good terms, I had zero influence other than if I spoke highly of something then it was the most awful and unhealthy thing in the world for her.

    I guess maybe knowing he thinks I am soooooooo powerful is something. not sure what.

    Thanks for listening and for the advice. maybe in a decade or two we can start some type of relationship. If he will even acknowledge my existence after his siblings are adults.
  8. Andy

    Andy Active Member

    Remind Wiz that you have no influence over your bro. That no matter what you have to offer to help your niece, your bro will not listen. Tell him you are proud that he is able to see what is happening and that he is concerned for his cousin but unfortunately for now there is nothing that you can say or do. How often does he see her? The best he can do for now is to be a good role model in eating healthy. The more people around her that eat responsibly, the quicker one day she might figure it out.

    I think this request shows that somewhere deep down, Wiz does respect your values and insight. If you are careful, that could be how you get that door to a good relationship opened. Keep telling him that he has the ability to do what is right. Keep it in his court with words of encouragement that he needs to decide what the right thing to do is. You can give him possible outcomes of different actions but he needs to decide what those actions are.

    He will learn that you are helping him grow and be independent while grandma is still trying to control everyone and everything. I think someday he will get it and you will get him back.
  9. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I'm having a difficult "real life" day so my response may not be as deep as usual but...I have raised eight children into adulthood. Some had HUGE issues (primarily with their biomom's which, thank God, I wasn't, lol) BUT I think it is really important to remember that the first ten, twenty years of life do NOT dictate who you are or what you believe in the middle stages of life. Yeah, I know it is hard to sit back and wait for the "dawning". It has been my experience as a Mom and Step that some of our kids (particularly difficult child's) go thru stages later than easy child's do. Trust your gut. DDD