not taking no as an answer

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by scoot, Jul 11, 2013.

  1. scoot

    scoot New Member

    What is the consequences of when u tell your child no and he doesn't take it as an answer.My son got an early b/day gift and I told him that he was not going to get another gift on his birthday.He agreed to it.Its been about a week now,finished the game and now he is begging for another one.I told him no,need it for something else and you already got ur gift for your b/d.He went on for an hour,whining,pleading,talking back and just being relentless because,I kept saying no.What does one do when your child doesn't take no for an answer?Do you punish him if so how?


    Hi Scoot - I also gave my difficult child an early birthday gift (some xbox thing ordered online). So far, he hasn't mentioned anything else. We are also having a small party on Saturday so we told him that is part of his gift. BUT as far as saying NO to something, that is our major problem in this house. Last night was HORRENDOUS. Every time we tell him no it becomes a scene. And when I say scene I mean yelling, banging on things...craziness. I am looking forward to seeing some more replies to your question. When we try consequences, life becomes even more unbearable. I honestly don't know what to do anymore. It's almost impossible to parent him. I hope you get some better
  3. scoot

    scoot New Member

    I'm in ur boat most days...just when thinks r going OK..something happens and its aweful.
  4. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    If he is an Aspie or somewhere on the spectrum... none of what he does or says will make any sense until you understand how people on the spectrum think and feel and react. They are WIRED differently. They experience life different from "the rest of the world". They sense things... either more intensely, or less intensely, than most. They are very literal, very black-and-while. Very "rules" oriented - but it's not the rules that "everybody" knows, because in real life, most rules are not obvious, not spoken/written/taught. You're just supposed to know... and people on the spectrum, don't. So they figure things out for themselves... and sometimes get it partly right, sometimes totally wrong. BUT... when the world doesn't operate according to the rules - as THEY know the rules to be - they fall apart.

    It's so much easier to deal with spectrum kids, when you know what you are dealing with from an early age. It's going to be a challenge for both of you to change the way you think and the rules you operate by and how you order your life... It can still be a really good life. In some ways, better after you know what you are dealing with, because spectrum kids actually are quite predictable... once you get to know them.
  5. scoot

    scoot New Member

    I'm not getting close to even getting a diagnosis for my son,the Developmental sent me ADHD paperwork for me and the school to fill out,how is thast independent testing?Once they look at what the school says,I can't compare w anything,because usually they will go with-the schools reports.I am totally stuck,everyone I talk to seems to think Autism Spectrum,but no one in the testing world wants to test for it....grrrrrr.,they won't acknowelge ODD at all.
  6. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Don't sweat the "won't acknowledge ODD" part... most of us on this board don't put much stock in an ODD diagnosis.
    Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), on the other hand...

    Do you have an Autism Society or similar down there? or a disability association? (I'm not in the US). Here... they can give you lots of info about how to work the system. They can tell you who to go to for assessments etc.

    ADHD assessment is 100 light years from Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) assessment... and you don't want either one.
    You want a comprehensive evaluation... one that looks into ALL the possibilities.
    You don't want "a label", you want a "complete list of dxes".
  7. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    Yes, it can be a process to get a diagnosis. The school can't diagnosis. They test for what effects his education and while the testing they do can be helpful it is not comprehensive. Someone like a neuropsychologist, developmental pediatrician, psychiatrist can diagnosis. And the first two are better than the psychiatrist. The testing takes hours or days to get done.

    Now to your question; it depends on the kid. My first tactic is to ignore the back talking. Sometimes (especially difficult child 1) they will be telling me no while they are completing the task given them. Second is to ask them "what did I say?" This is to try to get their brains to process through what they are stuck on. Because they are stuck. Third, if I can't take it anymore or they are getting to a meltdown point I send them to their rooms. As I said which step I use depends on the kid and situation. While I try to do the steps in order there are many times I jump to step two or three.

    I have been doing this for years. My routines have routines and subroutines. I think it helps them to process through the change of direction in thinking to use the same words; to get very regimented so they know what is coming next.

    If I were starting this while difficult child 1 is a teenager I think I would get his therapist on board and come up with a behavior/ crisis plan. The if you do .... Then I will .... Written down on paper. With pictures would be best. Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids are very visual.

    Note, this might work for Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). Bipolar, Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD), Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) you might want to take someone else's advice.
  8. scoot

    scoot New Member

    So when writing a referral for a complete comprehensive Special Education evaluation to the IEP team,will not actually be complete???Guess I will be making more phone calls...


    Good Morning. About ODD - Whether it is a real diagnosis or not, I think it can lead you to a correct diagnosis. All I know is my difficult child meets ALL of the characteristics of ODD. I think if your child meets the majority of those characteristics, you can be sure you are dealing with a diagnosis and not just an undisciplined kid. As for comprehensive evaluation, I FINALLY see a light at the end of the tunnel. difficult child has an appointment on Aug 12 to start a neuropsychologist evaluation which begins with an EEG. I have been trying to get this for YEARS. It is being done at an Epilepsy Center. I pray that it confirms the diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) and dare I hope - that it reveals some things we don't know about. My biggest fear would be that it shows NOTHING - in which case I would problem be looking for the nearest bridge to jump
  10. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    You will never get a comprehensive evaluation out of the school. But you DO need to request every possible school evaluation... as that evaluation is what will get you accommodations and interventions at school. Try searching this forum for "return receipt requested"... it's a common phrase that gets used when mailing an evaluation request to the school system in the US... you may find some sample letters or at least lists of what people have asked for.
  11. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    In the archives you will find sample letters to use to request comprehensive testing from the school. What the school world sees as comprehensive is VERY different than what the rest of the world sees as comprehensive because school looks only/mostly at how things impact his life at school, NOT his life overall. So you need to supplement by getting neuropsychologist testing done privately in addition to the school testing. You also need occupational therapy testing for sensory issues and other Occupational Therapist (OT) related problems as these can be severe but you might not even know it.

    One thing that MANY if not most of our kids have is some degree of sensory integration disorder. This means their brains do not handle sensory input the way a normally wired brain handles it. They seek or avoid various types of sensory input which can include types of movement, sound, tastes, textures etc... I think my kids had an easier time learning to deal with their sensory issues because I have sensory issues that can be quite severe and I 'get' what they are feeling to a greater degree than the parents of many of their friends.

    You can do a LOT to help the sensory issues by understanding them and learning the different types of therapies that help. One amazing and low tech/cheap therapy is known to actually rewire how the brain handles sensory input. It is called brushing and uses a soft brush over the body in a certain pattern followed by gentle joint compressions. It MUST be taught to you by a qualified Occupational Therapist (OT) because if you do it incorrectly you can create HUGE problems. I have found that working on and understanding the sensory issues can make a LOT of the problems better. It is easier to handle problems and unexpected things if your every nerve is not already on edge because you cannot cope with some sensory stimuli or need some sensory stimuli to cope and cannot have it. If those needs are met, it is far easier to handle the day to day stresses that every one of us experiences. I know firsthand because of my sensory issues. If I am wearing something itchy, I am grumpy and mean and NOTHING is good in my world. I cannot cope even one tiny bit. Never could and I have tried and tried over the years. By understanding this, it made me more able to understand my kids' issues. Lots of the research says that after age ten or twelve the brushing won't help much. I beg to differ as I personally felt substantial differences after using the brushing on myself - and I was close to forty, and also my older kids who were ten and fourteen showed significant improvement. Our Occupational Therapist (OT) had not ever tried it on anyone over age eight or nine and was very surprised to note the differences that we all felt. She has started to use it on older kids and is surprised at how it is helping them cope as the research didn't seem to address it, or so she said. You can learn more about sensory integration disorder by reading "The Out Of Sync Child" by Kranowitz.

    Another thing that helps with saying no is to be incredibly uber consistent in how you handle it. If you EVER give in after saying no, it will take weeks or months or longer to undo that. Your child will keep pushing past the point where it seems insane because once you gave in after days/weeks/hours/whatever of asking and being told no. If you say no, then no MUST be your answer and you must stick to it if you want the challenges of your 'no' answer to stop.

    I often would ask Wiz why he thought my answer would change if I had already said no? By not answering no again, and by not giving in but instead challenging his reasoning behind the pestering for another answer, it got into his mind that no meant no and that mom would not ever give in. I also had a set consequence for pestering me. the fifth time he asked, he got a chore to go do. I ignored the repeated challenges, even the outright fits if possible, and told him that he needed to take out the trash or pick up something or whatever. It was WW3 sometimes, but after making no stick and not giving in and giving chores to do for repeated requests after no was the answer, it did get through. It took months to get to that point, but it did happen. At least with me. My husband would give in if Wiz pestered him long enough, so Wiz never did stop it with husband. I had to let them sort that out because I could not always be there to make my husband be consistent.

    One thing that drove me nuts was that Wiz would keep asking even if I said yes. In our home if you asked mom over and over after she says yes, that must mean that you didn't want a yes so the answer changed to no. It got the kids to not keep pestering me even if I said yes, because the third time you ask after I say yes, I say no. It was mind bending to Wiz at first, but he got the idea and it cut down on the incessant requests that drove me batty.

    You may get some help by reading some of the Love and Logic parenting books. There are many different titles depending on the age of your child and other factors, but I have had excellent results. You can buy the books at many bookstores, but to learn more about them go to It is very helpful in parenting any child and in my opinion esp a difficult child. The main title is probably "Parenting Your Child with Love and Logic" by Faye and Cline.