Personal Morals

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Hound dog, May 24, 2009.

  1. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    I'm sure everyone has them. I'm not talking about morals we learn necessarily as a society or what we expect out of others. I'm talking personal morals we've come up with that we live by.

    I have several. They don't always match up with what society believes is "moral". I don't care. lol Sometimes I'm much stricter about what I perceive as right and wrong than is society. Sometimes I'm not.

    I'm in a delimma thanks to husband. Thanks to his behavior it seems locked in stone that I will be breaking one of my moral codes, one that I happen to feel is extremely important.....well, probably a couple more while we're at it.

    I'm not religious. I follow no religious group. However I do take a vow quite seriously. To me a vow is sacred, regardless of what it is. And there really is no good reason for breaking one. Which is why I think one should never vow anything unless they're prepared to devote their live to it, regardless of the good and bad concequences.

    This is one of my person morals.

    husband is pushing it to the limit. I don't think he is aware of how close to the edge he truly is. At the moment he has his car in pieces in my driveway. I made him go buy the fan belts he needed so that sister in law could replace them. He got POed because I refused to call sister in law to ask him if he could do it. (sister in law says it will take him about 15 mins) husband supposedly called sister in law to ask. (I have my doubts) sister in law told him he could get to it at the end of the week. husband blew a gasket at me. I told him I've been telling him to get the belts and ask sister in law to fix it for weeks. sister in law has a life too and can't always just drop everything and come to husband's rescue. (sister in law does it for ME not husband to begin with) husband then tells me he will have to drive my car to work. To which I replied oh, no he wouldn't. I need that car for school, thankyouverymuch. He blew yet another gasket. Next thing I know his car is in pieces and he is attempting to "fix" it himself. Based on past performance this could take 2 years.:mad:

    This is husband's passive aggressive way to prevent me from going to school. If he kills his car, he has to use mine, leaving me with no transportation, thus no school.

    Now I dunno if I've just reached my limit with husband's bs or what. But I could care less whether he goes to work or not. He is NOT using my car. I waited 20 plus years for that damn car, be a cold day in hades if I'm going to let him drive it to work and tear it up too. If he loses his job I'll be moving in with easy child and sister in law.

    It's awful I suppose. But I'm just using husband at this point in our "marriage". He owes me for 26 yrs of hades. If I can tolerate living here and he can keep his job until I graduate next summer then I will. It's the least the man can do after all he's put me thru. But if he loses this job.........and I expect him to soon.........then I'm done.

    There is a part of me that wants a divorce. But that is breaking that vow I made. I have no qualms about it religiously and could care less what anyone else thinks about it. It's ME I'm having the issue with. Although I know that I have no desire to spend the rest of my life with this man. But if I got a divorce I dunno if I could live with myself.

    Now I will put in here that husband and I divorce once before back when easy child was 3 and Travis was 1. The divorce had nothing to do with husband and I, but with protecting easy child. It's complicated and long. But husband and I were divorced for less than 6 months although we were seperated a year. Once the circumstances that had caused the divorce to take place was resolved, husband and I remarried. I used to really kick myself for this decision. But I don't anymore. I realize that at the time I still very much loved him and thanks to my own moral code I'd have done it no matter what.

    I suppose I could just get a legal seperation. But I don't know how much protection that actually gives me. Is it basically the same as divorce except that you can't remarry? I could live with a legal seperation. I wouldn't be breaking that vow, and yet I also wouldn't have to live with husband and put up with his behavior. But I don't want husband going on doing like he's currently doing with money and bills and me getting caught having to pay for them.:faint:

    A personal code of conduct is an important thing for a person to have. But dang it all to hades sometimes it makes life awfully complicated.:mad:

    Hmmmmmmm. I don't have one against killing a person. I figured there might be a situation someday where I had no choice. I wonder if I could just spork him to death.
  2. flutterby

    flutterby Fly away!

    Lisa, you've spent 26 years keeping a promise that husband has had no regard for. It was a meaningless promise to him. I think you need to cut yourself some slack. A promise like that really does take 2 people to keep.
  3. lovemysons

    lovemysons Well-Known Member

    So sorry you are in this situation. I mean, how sad is it, that your husband would sabotage your way to better yourself through your education. Doesn't sound like he is honoring/respecting you at all.

    I don't know the legal way to go about this but it does sound like your marriage is all but over.

    Just wanted you to know I care and am listening.
    Sounds like you've got some tough decisions to make.

    Hugs and love,
  4. muttmeister

    muttmeister Well-Known Member

    Well, I do understand not wanting to break a vow. I have a pretty strong moral code myself; again, not necessarily the same as everybody else's, but important to me. However, marriage vows are something you exchange WITH EACH OTHER. If he doesn't keep up his end, I'm not sure you are bound by yours; they are not one-sided. Maybe that's a valid way to look at it; maybe it's just making excuses; I don't know. I do know that there comes a time when, if other people are dumping on you, you owe it to yourself and the universe to do what you need to do to get on with it. I know you feel like you are between a rock and a hard place and it isn't my place to tell you what to do but maybe you need to look at it from another perspective. Vows are important and one of my own moral compasses is to always keep my word; however, if you gave your word after being misled by somebody else, I'm not sure you are bound to uphold that.
    Good luck with whatever you decide.
  5. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    Lisa, I agree with MM. You kept up your end of the bargain - he did not. You did the very best you could for all those years and he did not. With only one of the partners trying, it is no longer a 'marriage', and to my way of thinking, you are no longer obligated to stick to those vows. If the marriage is dead, HE killed it, not you. No one would expect you to sacrifice your chance at a happy, joyful life on your own because of vows you both made but he apparently didn't take as seriously as you did.

    And now he's trying to sabotage your efforts to go to school? After all the work and effort you've put in to it? He should be supporting you, not trying to trip you up! Of course, the results of your education will be a well paying job, and having a well paying job is your ticket to independence and a life on your own without him! Maybe that's why he's trying to sabotage you about school!
  6. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    I think the moral code to yourself outweighs your moral code to the vow, when you look at the whole picture.
    Like the others have said how can a vow to another in a marriage be upheld by only one? Where is the morals in this? And if husband has a different set of morals then how can you truly be expected to live by this one that you made 26 years ago without truly doing a disservice to yourself?
    I think if you were to be honest with yourself and look back through out your life, your morals may have changed over time?
    I think for the better with what you have learned, especially with the challenges of what life has brought you. Good and bad.

    I think in your heart you would make the right choice, even if it is to stay.
  7. 1905

    1905 Well-Known Member

    That vow you two took so many years ago is BS at this point, don't worry about the morality of that. What if one of our difficult child's did that, took apart the car all over the lawn, and now needed to get to work? We do have a list of mantra's, "You're a smart boy, I'm sure you'll figure something out." "Gee that's too bad, sorry I can't talk about that now, I'm off to school."The list is her on this board somewhere. LISA, Nothing can get in the way you going to school!!!! DO NOT GIVE HIM THE CAR. School is your way to a better life. YOU GO!-Alyssa
  8. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    I never expected to divorce Husband 1.0. His behavior was very similar to what your H is pulling. He broke his ankle, but rather than get disability till it healed, he tried to go back to work, got fired, then told me to drop out of school with a semester to go. He would also go pick up his three kids, have his brother bring over his kid so the cousins could play, and then they'd take off and leave me with all four kids.

    I didn't expect to divorce Useless Boy, either. The face he presented during the first half of our relationship was totally opposite the face I finally divorced. Though he wasn't physically abusive, his PA cr@pola really unbalanced me to where I had to get out to save mine and Miss KT's sanity.

    What I have learned is that no relationship can work unless both people are working at it. It seems to me that your H is not willing to support you in any way, emotionally, financially, whatever, and because of that, he has broken his vow to you. I'm not seeing the love, honor, and cherish that you so richly deserve. Someone who goes out of his way to sabotage you is not cherishing you. I understand your dilemma about divorce, but I believe that sometimes it is the only right answer, especially when you have tried everything to make the relationship work, and the other person is not receptive. You deserve happiness and a fulfilling life. Many, many hugs.
  9. hearts and roses

    hearts and roses Mind Reader

    Lisa, I am in no position to comment on this a whole lot. However, I do agree that you've put in your time, you've given it your best shot - you stuck to your personal moral code - and it hasn't panned out the way you would have liked; a way in which you can live with. Sending lots of hugs and support.
  10. mrscatinthehat

    mrscatinthehat Seussical

    I agree with the theory that he is another difficult child. Not what you planned on. And just like with the other difficult children you have done everything in your power to help them along but at some point don't they have to stand up and do what they have been taught to do.

    Many hugs on your hard journey. I have some broad shoulders to lean on along the way.

  11. Marcie Mac

    Marcie Mac Just Plain Ole Tired

    I have a legal separation for about 15 years. I didn't go any further in getting the divorce as Ca. is a community property state and I would have been on the hook for 1,500 a month alimony and would have probably had to sell my house, the one that was legally "A married woman as her sole & separate property", or pay him back half the house payment I had made since the house was purchased.

    Right now, whats his is his, whats mine is mine and neither one of us has a legal obligation for the other one. He does however, get half of my Social Security when he hits 62 as we were married for more than 10 years.

    It made me chuckle about your husband's car. I have been telling my dex (who is still in residence) that he needs to put oil in his car - he kept telling me I was wrong - what did I know about cars. Yesterday SO was outside when dex drove up and when he got out of the car, SO told him to open the hood for a minute. Not ONE drop of oil was in the thing. SO told him NOT to drive it another foot, they would go to the auto parts store and get oil which they did first thing in the morning. SO said one of his headers is pretty much fried, and the car isn't going to last long.

    My dex's problem isn't the passive/agressive thing, he just goes straight to clueless..

  12. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    LOL Marcie. Had to laugh at that one. husband blew up an engine doing that very thing.:ashamed:

    No. He will NOT use my car. How he gets to work or not at this point is his problem, not mine.

    You all have given me lots to think on. I see your points, I just need to see if I can jive it to what I believe and be able to live with it.

    Marcie it's good to know that legal seperation can keep everything seperate. That may be the route I choose. I dunno at this point. But one thing I do know is odds are I'll loose this house if we divorce. Now ordinarily I wouldn't care......except the only reason we have this house is because I got run over and the insurance settlement put an enormous down payment on it. Let's just say I paid 1/3 of it off before we even moved in. It would really tick me if husband got any part of it. In the past 5 yrs he hasn't come close to paying what I already paid.

    So I'll be thinking. Thanks for the imput. I truly value it.:D

  13. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Nothing to add but wanted to send supportive hugs your way.
  14. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I'm surely not the person to advise pro or con has been my life experience that it is best not to over analyze options far in adance of having to actually make a choice. In other words, the "car" is a problem that needs to be addressed this week. on the other hand, whether to stay together or separate will be a much more apparent choice once you have your school behind you and your future options are defined.

    I'm sure your moral compass will be aligned when the time comes. DDD
  15. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I had the same moral code and I stayed with miserable first hub for seventeen years. Nothing ever changed. I'm so glad I broke my own moral code (it was very uncomfortable for me) and left him behind. My kids are almost grown and I can't imagine spending the rest of my life with first hub!!! :sick: What will you do when the kids are gone?
    This guy sounds like a big loser. He would sabotage your education by dismantling your car? He's nothing more than a big baby. I would personally join a group of people who are going through a divorce for moral support and listen to them--and rethink. That's how I started my journey. I'm really glad I left him or I never would have met husband.
  16. Abbey

    Abbey Spork Queen

    You know, I *somewhat* get the morals thing, but not when you're beaten down for years. Sometimes you can crack the code and run free.

    Last night Goat Boy calls, who by the way is the most hypocritcal person I know. VERY religious, but only uses it on good days. I turned the phone over to my daughter. I never laughed so hard for the next hour. She TORE HIM DOWN. She is still so mad about him leaving me in a strange city at a bowling alley.

    So I'm sitting on the other side of the couch to him about religion. (This is the morals part.) She's many Buddist wars can you name? Now name how many Christian. How about the Talabon? sp? She finally hands the phone back to me and GB says, "Thanks Deb. You put me on the line with someone who is educated."

    Now, don't get me wrong - have whatever morals or religion you want, but sometimes you have to think outside of the box a tad. So you took a vow 26 years ago. You've held up to your end of it, but at some point you have to reevaluate if you're in the 'moral' region now. If you don't feel it in your heart...sigh.

  17. skeeter

    skeeter New Member

    chiming in as another that didn't expect to divorce. But also as another that realized that it takes two to keep that vow, and when one isn't going to, it kinda becomes a moot point.

    I don't know about separation. I do know that Ohio is a 50/50 state. All your assets will be split 50/50. I had purchased our house before marriage. But when it came time for the divorce, it was split 50/50 - we only had a year left on the mortgage. I got 50% of the value of the house at that time - he did that by refinancing and keeping the house, I used my half for the downpayment on a different house. We signed off on each other's retirement so we have no claims on those.

    But sometimes, you just have to do what is "morally right" for you. And that may mean doing something that is against your nature.
  18. mstang67chic

    mstang67chic Going Green

    First of all....HUGS. It's bad enough having a child in the house that acts like this. I can't imagine being married to one.

    As for your moral code....I can understand that. I've got my own set and can relate. However, as others have said, you kept up your end of the vow, he didn't. While I know it goes deeper than this, think of it as a business partnership. You make a contract and expect the other person to hold up their end of things. When they don't, there isn't any reason to keep the contract. It's not like you're talking about an isolated incident or two. You've been dealing with this for YEARS. Again, not on the same level but if this were your H's job, he would have been fired years ago. If this was a paying border, he would have been booted out.

    While I believe in divorce, I don't take it lightly. I've seen too many people either go into a marriage with the attitude that "eh...if it doesn't go like I want it to, we can just get a divorce" or get a divorce without even TRYING to make things work. This is definately not the case here. You have tried and tried and it has not worked. NOT because of any failings on your part but because you are in a partnership and the partner is putting no effort into it. You've done all you can and you can't make someone do things if they don't want to. You have a difficult child, you know this concept. Granted, I'm sure you didn't expect to apply it to a marriage but it's the same concept.

    At this point, you need to do what you need to do for YOU. Also, I didn't look at the links that Janet put up but you may want to consider consulting with a lawyer about the legal seperation. I only say this because I know that Ohio has one or two (coughcough) weird laws and you need to protect yourself.
  19. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    Lisa, one thing I've learned over the years is that it's not all black and white, but more shades of gray. I took this same moral high ground in my first marriage when I was very young and it dragged on for seven miserable years when I should have ended it after about six months! He failed at being a husband in just about every possible way, but I kept hanging in there because I thought that's what I was supposed to do as a good wife! Turned myself into a regular little martyr! That's what my mother had done and that's what I thought I should do too. I kept blaming myself, wondering what I had done to make him behave this way! And he had the best of both worlds ... he could continue in his irresponsible ways, no job, chasing after other women, not a care in the world, while I worked full time and was still there to keep the house nice, cook his dinners and iron his shirts! I really thought I was supposed to sacrifice my own happiness to keep it all together. I saw it as my own personal failure. No one in my family had ever been divorced. I was the first, but certainly not the last. And the damage it did to my self-esteem set me right up for my second marriage which was much longer and much worse, and much, much more damaging!

    Skeeter is right. Vows you took 26 years ago become a moot point if he doesn't hold up his end. You didn't end the 'marriage" - he did. You have nothing to feel guilty about. You deserve to be able to live your own life and to be happy. You have no idea the sense of freedom I felt when my second marriage ended (the really bad one!). It was scary at first until the details were worked out, but when I was finally on my own it was wonderful! It was like I had spent those twenty years chained to a 'loose cannon' and I was finally FREE! You deserve to have that too and I sincerely hope that you find it.
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  20. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    A thought on the subject of husband getting to work - can you coordinate your times so you can drop him off on your way to school? Even if you have to leave earlier than usual (it gives you a chance to get some extra reading in the library).

    We live in a very isolated spot and husband's car has been in pieces at the garage for the last six weeks. THis morning, having got the car back on Saturday, husband went to start it to go to work and - nothing. He was in a rush, dashed back in and said, "Is it OK to take your car? Do you need it today? Is there anything in the car you need to get out before I go?"

    Tomorrow i WILL need the car and his still isn't back from the garage. So the plan of action for tomorrow would be, husband would catch the boat to "the mainland" and the trian from there. Because difficult child 3 & I will be out in the evening, we would meet up with husband out there, waiting for him at the station to bring him home. On Wendesday - similarstory. I have to drive into the city. difficult child 3 & I don't need to be there until 10 am, husband has to be there at 8 am. So difficult child 3 & I will probably have two hours extra time waiting. But that's OK, it's a comfortable car to sit in and difficult child 3 can get some schoolwork done while we wait.

    Teamwork works. But it still takes compromise.

    If husband weren't also prepared to compromise and also be accomodating about it, he could go hang. But I know we can work it out, we have spent 30 years working out many little practical things like this.

    As for breaking a vow - you were a different person back then, making the vow under different circumstances. There were two sides to the vow and that makes it conditional. Sorry.

    ANd the expense of divorcing needs to be weight up against the continued expense of NOT divorcing. How much would it cost you to split everthing 50:50, vs how much is it going to cost you to stay? How much money does he cost you in unnecessary repairs, bad maintenance, poor management? How much do you sink in to your family budget each week (as a percentage)? How many years would it take to reach break-even point? And would all this matter, if you could move interstate first?