So happy I found this forum

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by sunshinegirl, May 24, 2012.

  1. sunshinegirl

    sunshinegirl New Member

    Hi all. I am new to the forum. My five year old daughter was diagnosed with sensory processing disorder (SPD) and daughter when she was 3. Last week she got more diagnosis, ADHD, ODD and Anxiety. I was pretty sure well before last week she has the ODD and Anxiety after doing a lot of research. I was hesitant to accept the ADHD diagnosis (as if I had a choice) but it is what it is. She has been on Strattera for 6 days without any signs of a difference. I do know it takes a while...

    I have an older daughter who is 9, only diagnosis for her so far is drama queen. She is gifted which I know comes with heightened emotions along with heightened intelligence. My difficult child attacks her both verbally and physically. Yesterday she scratched at her face over a muffin. difficult child was actually offered last muffin we had, said no and got cereal, older child got the muffin, difficult child then decided she absolutely had to have it. Now if it was my muffin I would have given it up. But I don't feel right about taking away the breakfast of choice from older kid. It's just not fair. Situation ended up with older kid getting clawed in the face, 3 dining room table chairs on their side and cereal being thrown on the ground.

    Does anybody have any advice for these types of situations? Older kid does understand somewhat of difficult child's issues, but does have a really hard with understanding why things should be 'unfair' in effort to avoid meltdown.
  2. keista

    keista New Member

    If life were fair, the nice ppl would be rich and good looking and the mean ppl would be ugly and broke. <~~~~~~~~~~ that's what I tell my kids and their friends ALL the time. Reality is, life is NOT fair.

    I wouldn't have taken the muffin away but I would have asked if she'd give it up for some other possibly more desirable breakfast. And or I would give the older child "stealth treats" when difficult child isn't around for her help and participation in difficult child's mood control. Life is not fair, but being rewarded for taking the high road is always appreciated.

    Welcome to the board.
  3. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    Welcome to the board! There are going to be lots of questions. Where have you had her tested and by what kind of dr?

    I've found reading the Explosive Child by Ross Green helped with knowing what to do in those types of situations. Maybe reading it and talking about it with your oldest would help.

    Others will be by soon, with lots more questions.
  4. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Hi! Welcome. Sounds like your daughter has a ton of diagnoses, some of which can be stand alone, and some that tend to be more symptoms that go along with other/bigger "umbrella" diagnoses. You say you are not totally comfortable with the adhd diagnosis. Who gave her all of these labels? Is she in school yet? (even a sp ed early childhood program?)....

    Just curious, as you have probably seen, we all get asked a lot of questions at first then we can share with each other from how we can relate to what you are going through or what your child's issues are in comparison to what we live with...

    Have you ever had a neuropsychologist evaluation done or an evaluation with a developmental pediatrician (and their group of professionals--often Speech Language Pathologist (SLP), Occupational Therapist (OT), pt, psychiatric). You must have Occupational Therapist (OT) done because you say she has sensory processing disorder (SPD). You said she was daughter is that still standing? What are the areas of delay?

    daughter plus sensory processing disorder (SPD) plus adhd plus ODD plus anxiety are all symptoms that combined describe kids on the autism spectrum. Not knowing your difficult child at all or anything else beyond what you wrote here, I am just throwing that out there because the blessing in that (if it rings a bell with you, and it may take a specialty clinic to see... often typical docs and psychs don't catch it adn that is why many many of us have lived thru the array of diagnosis like you have to then end up with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) in the end).....many just dont see the SPECTRUM part of it and only look for classic signs of autism. Anyway, the blessing is that the therapies available and used are so much more effective than approaching each one of the diagnosis. Actually even for non Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids, many Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) therapies can be very helpful.

    So, in the situation with your daughters/breakfast....there are techniques to help calm.... visuals to help show choices and "rules" etc. It depends on the child but if you have a very set routine that too can be a tool to help prevent these kinds of things if they happen frequently. (pick choices then, all done)

    From her perspective she declined the muffin but may have planned on it later.

    I fully agree that not letting your easy child have it would not have worked. (sometimes negotiating a half or part can help but depends on easy child being open to that of coruse).

    You have a lot on your plate! (but not anymore muffins, lol)

    So glad you joined us and will be fun to get to know more about your difficult child and easy child!
  5. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Well... for starters, even in the days when my two were both PCs... there's no way the two of them would ever have seen a "single" muffin. It just doesn't work! One leftover muffin would either have gone in my lunch, or I'd have made more and this would be the 13th muffin, or something. Part of parenting a difficult child along with a not-so-difficult child, is planning ahead.

    That doesn't change the whole question of what is really going on with your difficult child. At that age, to have that string of dxes... plus to have ODD as a diagnosis... to me, there HAS to be something else going on.
  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I was thinking autism spectrum too. All of the diagnosis. together...ADHD, sensory processing disorder (SPD), anxiety disorder, ODD are all symptoms of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). I would take her to a neuropsychologist, although she is pretty young and diagnoses tend to change with time...

    Welcome to the forum :)
  7. wilma

    wilma New Member

    All I can say is that your daughter has a ton of diagnoses, some of which can be stand alone, be extra careful on what you might be giving her for diagnoses.
  8. sunshinegirl

    sunshinegirl New Member

    Thank you all for the advice! She was diagnosed with sensory processing disorder (SPD) when she was three by an Occupational Therapist and then evaluated again by the school board who actually found more concerns with her than the private Occupational Therapist (OT). She is currently in an EBD Pre-K classroom at a public school. This was after she was asked to leave a regular pre-school, put in a home therapy preschool by a program called 'Project Challenge' we have in our area. In the home therapy school she repeatedly attacked one of the other students (tried to stab her with a pencil, would hit her with toys etc.) Surprisingly she has done very well in her current classroom, so well they want to remove her IEP and put her in Gen. Ed Kindergarden since her behavior at school is not interferring with her education....have the meeting next Thursday and I am prepared with a battle plan to do my best to keep the IEP...even if they feel she can function in gen ed, I still want the safety net in case. Totally perplexes me how she is so different in school than at home.

    The school board diagnosed her with daughter, which can only be there until she is 6, and at this time because she can count to 10, knows her colors, numbers and shapes they are saying she doesn't need that label anymore. The thing is when I ask her to count to 10 she gets to 4 and then gets lost, still gets colors and shapes mixed up...are they looking at her through rose colored glasses or is she just a totally different kid with me?

    Her new diagnosis came from a Pediatric Psychiatrist we recently started seeing. She is going to a center where they have therapy, psychiatry and a pharmacy all in one place. They had me document everything for three weeks. Eating, sleeping, behavior, what happened before an explosion/behavior issue, what happened after, what kind of reaction/consequence she got from me and if she complied with the consequence...everything...I even used my phone to record some of the stuff so they could see it themselves.

    I actually bought The Explosive Child about two years ago...found it in a bookstore and looked very interesting, read the first two chapters back then but obviously I need to dust it off and read the rest.

    I will definitley ask her dr and therapist about looking at Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), I never really thought of that and as far as the muffins....looking back I definitley should not have had one muffin laying around.

    Thank you all so much!
  9. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Dont be surprised if they (your current psychiatric office) say no to Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). Places that are very mental health diagnosis focused and traditional behavior modification oriented often miss it and it is not because they are bad. Just a really different perspective. And believe me, they can be emphatic NO WAY this kid has autism, kind of thing.

    Yet, they can list a half dozen diagnoses for ONE person. (and yes this can really happen, but it is far less common than the symptoms adding up).

    When a school district gives a label, it is just that, an educational label. Federal law, I think, haven't double checked....says that the daughter label goes through age 6 I think so you can probably push that (up until she becomes 7). DO NOT let them stop the IEP. Keep at least two goal areas to get her through the transition to a new school and new level of performance. Many kids honeymoon in a new setting, so for sure keep it going as long as you can. She has to have actually met all of the goals and be on target for any current skills she will need, including social, to have it stopped. Time to put on your warrior mom armor!

    The labels in a medical setting are actual diagnoses that can be used to obtain medicine, therapy in the private setting etc. These too must be considered by the school though do not mean automatic services as they are already telling you.

    Especially given that she has overall developmental delays and you are seeing that she really is still struggling, it makes me wonder even further about the autism possibility.

    Asking the current program she is in for a referral may not get you anywhere. I'd call insurance and see where there are neuropsychologists who can evaluate a child your age and/or any neurological-developmental clinics (not psychiatry) that have developmental evaluations. See if you can ask for one that specializes in autism so that it can specifically be ruled out just in case. When you find where you want her evaluated, then (again just my way of doing things, lol....) I'd call the pediatrician and say....there will be a referral request for you to sign coming through. daughter needs a comprehensive evaluation done and this is where I need her to go. Thanks for your help. They work for you, so assume in a team player kind of way that the dr. will gladly sign off on a referral! It has always worked for me for evaluations and therapy requests both.

    The testing will include IQ, learning strengths/"academic" which at her age are developmental milestones really, some language/communication, motor, lots of behavioral, medical and developmental history, record review, etc. It is really good to get that separate view of things. You dont have to release the information to everyone. You can keep it for your own information. If it will help you though, you will be glad to have it.

    I hope that is available to you if it feels like something you would want to do. If you dont for now, realize it is always an option if things do not continue to improve at home especially.

    It is pretty common for kids to do better in other settings and worse at home. For many reasons. It can take them great effort to do well in school so they are exhausted and can just let it all hang out at home....They are more secure in your total acceptance so are willing to be at their worst for you, etc... (What an honor, right?)

    Good luck, hope it goes the way you want it to. I hope you keep posting to let us know how things are going.
  10. keista

    keista New Member

    DO NOT LET THEM TAKE THE IEP AWAY! You know that already. Just reminding you :) Just because they want to mains team ther is no reason to take it away. In the mainstream is where she will probably need the supports of the IEP even more.

    And I'd like to back up Buddy by saying I see Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) in those dxes and that behavior as well, in which case, she REALLY needs that IEP.

    by the way my other solution would have been to split the muffin (I have to do mine 3 ways sometimes) and they can also have half a bowl of cereal (or whatever) too.