Tell Me What You Think Of This Please

[Janna]

Dylan was tested with a neuropsychologist over the summer. The neuropsychologist stated he wanted Dylan to have an O.T. evaluation.

I presented this to the L.I.U. (early intervention that handles Dylan's Emotional Support classroom and all therapies). They told me he was tested and found to not have a need.

So, today, in the I.E.P. meeting, I ask again, what about O.T.? They tell me he was tested, and because he can hold a pencil, turn the pages of a book, etc, he is not in need.

So, today, the teacher sends me this paper home. It reads:

Name: Dylan XXXXXXXXX
Date of Report: November 30, 2006
Occupational Therapy

Dylan was observed in his classroom on November 17, 2006 to determine if there was a need for a formal occupational therapy evaluation. During class time, Dylan was able to manipulate the pages of a book independently. When writing, Dylan held his writing tool with his right hand and used the tripod grasp with a thumb wrap. He was able to place weight on his forearm when writing without cues. Dylan was also able to form his letters correctly on or within 1/8" of the baseline independently. He did not place an appropriate space beetween his words consistently when completing his writing assignment. Dylan was able to self correct his work when he did make a mistake. Dylan's educational team has stated that he is able to meet his educational goals within the classroom and that they do not have any concerns related to occupational therapy at this time. At this time, a formal Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation is not needed because Dylan is able to reach his educational goals and his educational team does not have any Occupational Therapist (OT) related concerns.

Why do I think my kid is getting shafted. This guy signed him name with a COTA/L at the end. What's that??

Is this alone enough to warrant not needing Occupational Therapist (OT)? Honestly, Dylan's motor skills at home here stink. The kid doesn't "get" Leggos, or anything else that requires needing thought. The school, today, claimed he is fine. There's no need.

Maybe I'm overreacting and he doesn't need it? I dunno.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks,

Janna

 

[SRL]

I have found that there is often a world of difference between the Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluations kids get through the school and what you get privately. All they are required to evaluate and treat in the area of Occupational Therapist (OT) is what impacts the child in the educational setting so the fact that he can't do Legos at this stage of the game won't hold water as long as he can handle paper and pencil and do whatever simple manipulatives required.

When my difficult child had his first Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation through the school it was a one hour affair in the home testing for simple stuff like ability to do simple motor skills, catch a ball, etc. When I took him for a private evaluation it was 2 1/2 hours and she really put him through his paces plus asked me a zillion questions plus had me fill out a sensory assessment on him. While some parents will have had better results than we did with the schoool, this isn't at all uncommon and why in this one area at least I always urge parents to get a private evaluation done if they can swing it. The other reason is because to be effective, Occupational Therapist (OT) needs to be addressed on the home front as well as school which means it's best if the parent can attend the sessions as well to learn the ropes.

 

[Martie]

Janna,

I couldn't agree more with SRL. The report you quote is tailored to indicate "no negative educational impact" and that is the criterion for special education or related services (of which Occupational Therapist (OT) is one.)

I do not think you will get anywhere on this front. If your child needs therapy, the school is not going to provide it unless there is negative educational impact that they can see.

Could there be another reason for the Leggo problem at home? Building with Leggos requires some planning and EF skills (if anything complicated is being built.) Throwing Leggos seems to be a natural skill for most, however.

I wish I could tell you that I think you will be successful if you fight this fight, but I don't think you should use your "ammunition" on this one.

Many times our kids need more than the SD will provide.

Martie

 

[Sheila]

In essence, the sd has done the testing you asked for. You can request an IEE, but this is dragging out and valuable time is being lost. If you can swing it, I'd get a private evaluation then go from there, e.g., call an IEP meeting.

Frankly, fine and gross motor skills are so important that I'd be leary of handing over treatment to an entity that doesn't want to do it to begin with.

 

[helpmehelphim]

Sheila, that's what I was thinking too but I didn't know how to say it. I know that last year when I was talking with- the school regarding my difficult child and his sensory stuff, the school psychologist pulled me aside and said "frankly, I'd think twice about using the district services for this because I haven't seen it be affective at all here". Her reasoning was that a student is pulled out once a week there and differently Occupational Therapist (OT)'s provided services so there was no continuity. Also, what SRL said about continuing services at home is so necessary. I remember brushing my difficult child when he was small multiple times a day for a couple of years. Things like that can make such a difference.

I was wondering too about the legos...does he like legos? My difficult child never really cared for them....but give him a chemistry set and he's all over that. Or music....I always thought that my son didn't care too much about legos because of the time it took and the EF stuff involved...there's a lot of building things out of legos...the planning, organizing and sequencing. I might have been off base. He may just not care for them like his brother does.

 

[Janna]

Okay, I understand what the school was saying. I suppose I should have already realized that is why they found no need, because he doesn't need it in school.

Seriously, I don't think I want to seek out private Occupational Therapist (OT). I don't know if he needs it. I still think that neuropsychologist was a quack :hammer:

I used the Leggo's as an example, HMHH, but it's alot of things that just require thought or any motor skills/hand & eye coordination, etc. Dylan LOVES Leggos, asks for them on birthday and Christmas lists, but when you give him the book with the color photos and step by step directions, he goes blank. Same with the K'Nex. He sees the photo. He sees what he has to do. He picks up the stuff, and he goes blank? What's that all about? Same thing with puzzles. Although, interestingly enough, when he was 3, he could do 100 piece puzzle ALONE! Now, blank.

Teacher said he has no self esteem and could possibly be an attention seeking type of thing. He doesn't think he can do anything on his own. For example, she gives her lesson in the classroom, as soon as she gives the assignment from the lesson, Dylan is running to the aide. He (supposedly) can't do anything independently.

His writing is severely sloppy too, although everyone claims that's "normal boy". Okay. Don't call me complaining or send home stupid little notes then that his homework was sloppy or you can't read his assignment! Either you want to work on it or you don't, right?

I have no clue what the whole scope of Occupational Therapist (OT) is. I thought maybe it would be beneficial to him in the classroom, but it's not something I'm willing to add into our schedule on a private basis. As if we have time.

Trying to figure out this kid, what he needs, what he doesn't, what's for real and what's a bunch of manipulative play from him is really something. Maybe some day I can write a book and be rich and famous on this kiddo :rofl:

Janna

 

[Martie]

If he could assembled a 100 piece puzzle at 3, unless there had been a CNS problem in the intervening years, it seems to me that fine motor skills per se are not likely the main problem. What you describe with all the building toys are evidence of EF and palnning problems to me.

My ex-difficult child had all those toys, too, and not only loved them but built everything imaginable with them. My ex-difficult child had many, many problems but EF was a strength for him, not a problem. I hesitated to say anything about ex-difficult child because (obviously) fine-motor skills were not a problem either, but what you are describing with your difficult child sounds more and more like EF and planning and less and less like a problem that is based on motor skills.

Just my .02--but if I am correct, your difficult child needs help with EF and planning because the demands for these skills increase exponentially as kids advance in school.

Martie

 

[helpmehelphim]

Martie, I really think that's what the deal is with my son and Lego's...now, he'll make his own creation with- legos but not what the instructions say to do (but only for so long and then he's lost interest). He has many EF challenges...we are working on them a whole lot...a whole, whole lot. Fortunately, EF is comprised of lots of things that can be learned. That's the great thing.

 

[Sheila]

With our difficult child, our sd had the same attitude as yours. One of the sadder parts is that they had a very good Occupational Therapist (OT) that did difficult child’s evaluation and her report identified and addressed the specific problems, but everything recommended was for parents to do, e.g., no educational impact so no Occupational Therapist (OT) at school. Pure bunk, but a blessing in disguise. Like I said earlier, chances are you’d want private Occupational Therapist (OT) with, at best, supplement therapy by the sd.

Just so you know, motor skill problems are very complex and impact learning in a variety of ways. Impaired motor skills can impact sequencing, perceptual skills, processing skills, the ability to transfer a learned skill from one task to a similar task automatically and on and on.

http://www.apraxia-kids.org/ contains an overview of just fine motor skills.

My son has had many intensive therapies. If I knew then what I know now, the other therapies would have been put on the back burner and I would have hit the fine and gross motor skill problems early and hard. Why? Today’s motor skills are the foundation upon which all future learning is based -- kind of like building a 20 floor high-rise office building. If the foundation isn't sound, each floor of construction adds additional weight to a foundation that will not be able to support it. Sooner or later, the foundation will fail. It may begin to show up with cracks in the lobby floor or cracks in the brick walls. Maybe a window cracks from the pressure when the building shifts ever so slightly. Perhaps doors suddenly won’t stay open or can’t be closed. Then water pipes start breaking for no apparent reason. The longer the wait to get the foundation repaired, the more damage done to the building, and the more time and cost involved to repair it.

difficult child benefited greatly from his therapies, but I’ve second guessed the order in which his therapies were delivered repeatedly. Would the auditory processing therapy been more effective if he’d had Occupational Therapist (OT) first? Maybe his language therapy would have progressed faster and more effectively? Would his attention be better? Maybe his ability to follow directions would have been improved and there would have been less behavior problems at school, less learning difficulties? I suspect the answer to each question is “yes.”

 

[helpmehelphim]

Sheila, I really like that analogy to a 20 story building. Thank you for that visual...I get a lot from them. My son benefited tremendously from Occupational Therapist (OT) and from PT (for a variety of reasons but also including that the PT was a great family friend who really "played" with him). We did Occupational Therapist (OT) for a long, long time. I didn't know it was so related to EF or displayed similiarly. My son still has motor issues but boy he sure fights through them. He's last to get picked to play BB but he plays anyway. He swims on the swim team regardless of ribbons (although, he does get frustrated by his large stack of "thank you for competing" ribbons. I get that though).

We have switched over the years though to things like Karate or Judo. Do you think that's of good benefit? I wonder how long or how old one would benefit from continued Occupational Therapist (OT)? I've bought things for the house and we do things here...the kid can do a flip on the trampoline like nobody's business. His writing and punctuation...we work on and play with more. And how good does writing need to be? What about the role of computers and why can't I read doctors' writings? Sometimes I wonder about where these things fit into the big picture. But as you say, perhaps it's all linked.

 

[Martie]

HMHH,

There have been MANY discussions over the years of martial arts and CD kids. I do not know if any are in the general archives because many threads have been lost through various board upgrades.

Here are the major discussion points with the most common answers:

1. Is it OK to "arm" an ODD child with a martial art?
Ans: Yes because a good master will make it clear that the technique is not to be misused. If the difficult child doesn't get the message, THEN quit the martial art--most get the message, however. It also helps to choose a non-contact dojon, at least initially.

2. Why will my difficult child listen to the master but no one else?
Ans: Who knows? but it is reported over and over. The cynics say it is because the difficult child is scared sh**less of the master but I know that isn't true--and no reputable marital artist would ever hit a child. More likely, I think, it is peer pressure, everyone conforms and bows, the difficult child conforms and bows. After all, it only goes on for 60 to 90 minutes at a time.

3. Why does my difficult child's behavior in martial arts not carry over to school?
Ans: School is not like the Dojon, so the difficult child behaves as expected for the environment.

4. Why does difficult child repond to this form of discipline but no other?
Ans: Who knows but personally I think the answer is similar to #2 above.

5. Will martial arts improve my difficult child's motor skills?
Ans: probably

6. Will martial arts improve my difficult child's motor planning skills?
Ans: very likely

7. Will martial arts improve my difficult child's EF skills?
Ans: It seems to help many kids

8. Will martial arts help my child fend off bullies?
Ans: Only indirectly bec. martial arts do not teach kids to fight; through increased physical self-confidence, however, bullies may look for an easier mark.

9. Will martial arts increase my child's self esteem?
Ans: If the master is a positive force, then yes.

My easy child is a second degree black belt in TKD and ex-difficult child entered residential as a red belt with a black stripe. He never finished and regrets it. It is the ONE thing my children did together and they are as different as any two kids can be. It helped each in different ways: easy child learned tolerance and how to teach skills to others (a BB responsibility); ex-difficult child developed confidence and became somewhat less anxious. Neither of my kids have EF problems, motor problems or planning problems but MANY kids in the dojon did and I watched many improve over the years. The dojon was too far away for me to drop off and pick up so I sat there 3 times a week for YEARS watching all these kids. I know of several boys who were in heavy duty BD classes who managed well in TKD. Also the master was very positive: there was one kid who was particularly inept and the master used to say "use your 'other' left foot for that one," and the kid would switch feet.

I can't really remember many nay-sayers on these discussions, but there were a few people who said it made no difference for their child, as one would expect. Most people had positive experiences.

P.S.

In case you think I have lost my mind here, ex-difficult child only broke boards with his feet, never his hands. Also, it was a non-contact dojon. easy child broke boards with her hands but never injured herself badly (just brusies--which were well worth it for the BB tests.)

Martie

 

[helpmehelphim]

Thank you Martie. He has taken classes for some years and he started in kindergarten...so cute when they are so little. He's never been aggressive with it and it was recommended to me by an Occupational Therapist (OT) friend who said that she felt it helped many of her pediatrician. Occupational Therapist (OT) patients. He gets tired of it off and on which I go with and then he'll take interest again.

I've never seen him pull it out though in a group or anything. Even when he pulls out other things, the martial arts doesn't go on display. That is interesting and I've never really thought about it before.

We had an incident the last week of school where kids in the classroom were telling him to "shutup" (the teacher had left the room) because he was talking to first himself and then a boy next to him to loudly. He said "you shutup" a few times in response and then a boy left his seat, walked up behind my son and hit him in the back of the head with- his book. My son fell out of his seat onto the floor. The teacher came in and asked why he was on the floor and my son said he fell out of his seat. Later, he did ask for an ice pack (he had a lump and a headache) and the teacher pressed him. He told the teacher what happened. After an investigation (interviewing all the other kids) the other child was suspended for one day. My son was harassed even more (this included the vice principal in my opinion who kept saying that my son provoked the other child...yet didn't get out of his seat and physically assault anyone) for this child being suspended.

Anyway, my point is that in my mind, I thought "I'm so glad you didn't go over and try to hurt that boy for hurting you" since I know he knows martial arts just from being involved for so long. He didn't though. He kept saying he shouldn't have told. We had multiple conversations that there just wasn't anything he could have done to please those kids...tell, not tell, it was a no win. I was glad he took care of himself. They didn't call me either. I just happened to go by the school to have lunch that day. It was a terrible situation and I was so relieved that he wasn't going back into it again.

 

[dreamer]

My oldest dtr, my difficult child bipolar, anxiety child had been in Tae Kwon DO from kgarten until middle school. SHe had her first black belt.
My easy child dtr was also there right beside her and also had her black belt.

Ours was also a no contact dojo and while the head guy wanted my girls in competition, I never let them go into competition.

In the ED BD class my oldest was in, she met some very rough boys. outside of school I have seen them grab her hit her, kick her etc. over 8 yrs of martial arts year round, and I never ever saw her once use it when threatened.
The ONLY time I ever saw my girls use it was for meditation or exercise or for show-----similar to dancing?

My lil guy had begun TKD but, he did NOT do well at all, and the head guy asked us not to bring him back.....and my dtrs got upset about that and quit.

My girls now regret quitting, but.....at the time we had a sponsor for them, and now we don't.