um was this supposed to happen?

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by forkeeps251, Apr 7, 2012.

  1. forkeeps251

    forkeeps251 Member

    So, difficult child started Adderall XR yesterday (5mg, low dose). His main problems, I think, are with impulsiveness and aggression towards other kids at school, and defiance towards the teacher in particular. Although his teacher and the school complain of his hyperactivity, I haven't noticed that much of an issue with it at home, but then I don't have to have him sit down and do work.

    Anyway, since he started the Adderall he has been talking.non.stop. He has never been this chatty. It is constant! He does seem a little bit more tempered, but slightly more hyperactive and WAY more talkative. I did find one forum where several people stated that they or their children had the same reaction, and that it wore off after a few days as their bodies adjusted to the medication. I'm hoping thats the case, because if not I can't imagine what school would be like and I'm thinking that there is no way that this would work.

    If it doesn't wear off, should I start thinking that ADHD was an incorrect diagnosis? Or is it possible that his dose is just too low? I guess time will tell.
  2. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    It could be too low a dose or the wrong stimulant. It could also just be an adjustment to the new medication. If that is the only negative part, I would give it another week and see if he quiets down.
  3. crazymama30

    crazymama30 Active Member

    I wonder if the adderall is making his anxiety worse? I would give it the weekend, and if not better? I would call the prescribing doctor.
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    No, it is not supposed to happen. Adderrall was horrible for my son and after two days of it, we realized this. He never stopped talking, got mean and aggressive, and most certainly did not focus better. You can try a lower dose or another stimulant or he may be one of the many kids who can not tolerate stimulants. I can't imagine why give him more of it if he is already more hyper on the dose he is already on. Remember that stimulants are after all, speed. And they behave like speed a lot of times. And in my son's case, he has Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), not ADHD as was first diagnosed, however ADHD is sort of a part of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) and it still made him worse.
  5. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    If there is improvement in other areas, then I could see continuing for a few more days. Otherwise, call the psychiatrist today and ask to try ritalin. It is another stimulant, and is also short acting (not all day). Some people do better on one stimulant than another. If ritalin works, there are long acting versions that give coverage all day and don't require the need for a dose during the school day (less hassle for you and difficult child and difficult child can't forget to go take his medications at school). If neither medication works, then you have to look for other solutions. Strattera might help, or it might be the wrong diagnosis or he may just not respond to the medications well.

    I did sort of chuckle at the talking nonstop. My difficult child did this, but he started long before we put him on medications. He even talked all night in his sleep. It was constant unless he was reading or playing a video game. By age 4 he had hundreds of books - part because he loved them and part because he would stop talking as he read!

    My son has Aspergers, a type of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) and yes, ADHD IS a par of that, but medications were very important and very helpful to him. There is no way he could have gotten through school with ANY type of supports/accommodations with-o medications. It just could not have happened. Not only would he never have listened or done ANYTHING that anyone wanted him to, he was also very aggressive and mean, esp to females. It made the years before he was diagnosis'd a TON of fun - NOT.

    With the stims for adhd, Wiz LIKED himself. He could concentrate and complete a train of thought, pay attention on the soccer field and not have to work as hard to do what was expected at school. When we added risperdal, his aggression decreased noticeably. Just because a child has an autistic spectrum disorder and adhd is part of that disorder, does NOT mean that medications are a bad thing. For SOME they are. MWM's son was misdx'd and on a lot of the wrong medications until they just took him off all of them because they did more harm than good. My son got the right diagnosis and medications were a HUGE change for the good. medications are a super personal decision, and it is not easy to find the right medications - it takes a lot of trial and error.

    Do you think the diagnosis is right? What was it based on? Are you willing to try another medication? One good thing about trialing stims is that they are fast in, fast out. There is no build up to know if they will work, although sometimes it takes a week or two for the body to fully adjust. They also come out of the body as fast as they go in, so you don't have weeks of tapering the drug to have it leave the body. Esp if you use the hsort acting versions rather than the long acting (same medication, just formulated differently).

    Has he gone to school while taking the adderall? What did the teacher say about the talking? If they are seeing the problems, maybe they should also see the solution, at least for one day. It might give another perspective. Also, have you volunteered in the classroom or seen him with his peers? It might be helpful to do this at least 1-2 times (if you can), then you might see what the teachers are talking about when they say he is hyper. Often we are so used to what our kdis do that it seems normal to us. This was quite true wth my difficult child because he was my first child. He was all I knew, and all husband knew. But when we saw him around other kids we saw the differences.

    I am not saying your child is or isn't misdiagnosed. What is being done to treat the anxiety? I do know kids who seemed adhd, but when another disorder was treated the adhd sx went away. Anxiety can cause a child to behave in ways that seem like adhd, and I cannot think that stims would help that. If he truly has adhd they should, but they also could add to the anxiety. Are they treating the anxiety at all? With medications or other things? Have you tried meditation, self hypnosis, etc?? Biofeedback is esp helpful - and yes, kids as young as your son CAN learn. You can find things to use at home to teach this. There is a gizmo called a Stress Eraser that you put your index finger in and concentrate on calming yourself and it gives you a display of lights that you try to change as you calm yourself. It is pretty basic biofeedback and can be useful to help anyone. Often kids are able to learn and use biofeedback far easier and more effectively than adults.

    Another thing that can look like adhd is food allergies/intolerances. The gluten free/casein free diet is very helpful to some people. Casein is a type of protein in dairy that is often put into other foods, and gluten is a protein in certain grains like wheat. More and more people are finding that anxiety, adhd, aggression and even some symptoms of autism are greatly improved or eliminated when the girlfriend/cf diet is followed rigorously. You do NOT need digestive problems to have problems with gluten and casein. The allergy tests for problems with food are not very reliable and it is entirely possible to have allergy tests show no problem but to show huge improvement on the girlfriend/cf diet anyway. There are a TON of products out that are girlfriend/cf and taste really great now, so it is NOT as hard as it used to be. It might be a way to help with the problems, and can't hurt to look into and to try if it seems promising.

    These are just ideas. Sorry if this is too much info.
  6. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Hello. I am not taking "sides" in some debate about medications - I personally do not have fixed views on the subject; I think it is a very difficult decision to take and I acknowledge that there are cases where it has obviously been of benefit to people. Obviously, too, parents who give their children medications for these conditions want to help, not harm, them.

    However, what strikes me is that your difficult child is very young, just six years old. Has he been tested for iron deficiency? For some reason, children with ADHD have been shown to have a high probability of iron deficiency and in some studies, a course of iron supplements has been shown to be beneficial in terms of calming hyperactivity and improving attention capacity. Magnesium, ideally with B6 and calcium, is also something to try. I have been giving iron and magnesium to my son for some months and I would say that overall he is easier, less oppostional and defiant and more open to reason and to being reasonable than he was. This could also be due to his development so it's really difficult to put it down definitively to the supplements but... it's worth a try, I reckon, particularly if you are finding negative effects from the medications. You don't want to jump from the frying pan into the fire!!

    Or, indeed, maybe another medication will work for him and not have these undesirable side effects. I do wish you luck in your journey to find the right treatment.
  7. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Although nobody wants to use medications it's important to remember that there are alot of different stims available today and what works like a charm for one child can be a total pain for another. Back in the day we had Ritalin (different sizes) and then Adderal. We then moved on to Concerta (which worked best for us) and since my active role the youngest grands are doing well on a newer medication, Vyvance.

    Make notes and remember stims are fast in/fast out so it is rare for any side effects to last more than a day or two. Fingers crossed. DDD
  8. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    If you want to go a different direction then stims, ask your doctor about Clonodine.
  9. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Take very good notes, as you can see from the posts, it might be a problem, might be an adjustment, might be not enough or too much, etc. We all have different experiences. No way to rule out the diagnosis from one medication. If it happens with some or all adhd medications you MIGHT suspect there are other things going on I suppose.

    Since you are just starting the medication journey I will share with you that my keeping notes, and being very much an advocate/part of the team.... has made things go much better. So even if medications have caused a crisis, I have planned ahead for how to get off, who to call, where to go etc. If I had known then what I know now, I would have a separate medication journal. Now at 15 there are times I need to remember if we ever tried this or that and there have been so many I do forget sometimes. Luckily we have the same docs the whole time so it is easy to look thru the records.

    Let us know how the journey goes this weekend! hope he is ok.

    OH, I am sure this is obvious, but even though any medication may help, if behaviors have gone on for a while it still will take the team to work on them. The difference is the kids can take in the help and support. It doesn't automatically stop all behaviors which is why some people say it takes time to see if it works. That is different from medications that need to build to a steady state etc. (which needs then that AND time to work on the behaviors). Just a thought, sorry if you already had considered that.
  10. svengandhi

    svengandhi Well-Known Member

    My oldest son took Adderall from 3rd through 9th grades. In 10th grade, we decided to switch him to an XR formulation so he only had to take it once a day. On the second day of XR, we found our normally mild-mannered and non-aggressive son in the bathroom - with my youngest son, who was then in 1st grade, in a chokehold. We broke it up and then called the doctor. He said it was a very rare reaction but we put him back down onto regular Adderall. By the next day, he was back to normal and even cried when he talked about how he just felt compelled to hurt his littlest brother.
  11. Giulia

    Giulia New Member

    Although rare, every medicine can have their weird side effects. As with Adderral XR and Adderal, or with Lithium and Lithium XR etc etc...

    The problem is not much the molecule itself, but the mix up between molecule and excipient(s).

    I had weird side effects on Aspegic, whereas the classical aspirin didn't give me side effects. Aspegic is, in France, an aspirin formula which is slightly different from aspirin. It should be normally better tolerated than aspirin.
    Well, Aspegic gave me tinnitus, whereas aspirin didn't.

    So, to reply to your question, it was not planned to happen. But even with the same molecule, a switch between fast release and an XR release can create such a problem.
    Your son is not to blame, his brother is not to blame, and you are not to blame from what happened.
  12. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Is the school seeing the same thing? Perhaps you are seeing the come down period after school and that is when the chatter increases?
  13. forkeeps251

    forkeeps251 Member

    Thanks so much everyone, you all have given me a LOT to think about. The day I wrote the post, it was his second day on the Adderall. The next day was a lot better, talking wise. Today was his frist day at school, and I got an email from the teacher telling me that she did think he was a little bit calmer in the morning, but that the morning time was better than the afternoon (seems to me if this was the case, then perhaps the medications are working and were wearing off at that time). She said he did get in trouble in lunch for knocking over a chair when he couldn't sit by his best friend, but that he went to the office and was able to calm himself enough (and quickly enough) that he was able to go back to lunch.
    In the past, it hasn't been unusual for something like this to just escalate into a full blown tantrum. The fact that he was able to calm down fast enough after the incident is, for him, very good.
    To answer some questions, ADHD and Anxiety disorder are the diagnosis right now. Both the psychologist and psychiatrist think that some of his behaviors might be indicative of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) or Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), but that he just has SOME of the symptoms, and all of those could be related to ADHD and speech delays, etc.
    As far as his hyperactivity, really, to me it hasn't been an issue. I'm much more concerned about the fact that at school he is aggressive and violent to teachers, students, and himself. I was hesitant about the stimulants because I didn't know if this would increase the aggression or anxiety, but the psychiatrist pointed out that if those things increased, we could stop the medications. His teachers, on the other hand, might have problems with his hyperactivity :)
    I'm going to give it a few more days, or a week, and see what happens. So far we haven't seen anything troubling, other than the talking, and that seems to be getting better. The question though, is whether we have seen much of an improvement... and I'm not sure at this point.
  14. amazeofgrace

    amazeofgrace New Member

    I have learned that certain medications hace different effects on different kids. But listen to your heart and monitor his sleeping and eating patterns. If the chattyness starts to become Manicness you need to speak with dr.
  15. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Forkeeps... others have covered most of the bases, but... keep in mind that often, "our" kids have layers of problems and challenges. Sometimes, we actually get the right solution for the current layer, and then the next layer shows up. This could be medication related... but, it could also be something else entirely. And there's no sure-fire way to know!